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Topic: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty  (Read 8976 times)

Offline kornv9022

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I am just curious how one would rank the movements of the Tchaikovsky concerto no.1 and the Rachmaninoff concertos 1 and 2 in terms of difficulty. I am curious not just the difficulty within the concerto, but in relation to all of these movements in all three concertos.
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Offline stevensk

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #1 on: March 22, 2017, 09:45:46 PM

-Depends on what individual difficulties you have.  ;)

Offline afarmboysforte

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #2 on: March 23, 2017, 02:44:02 PM
Before I start, I wanna say that this'll just be my very biased, subjective opinion. With these difficulty things, someone's bound to disagree with another. I have played through all of these concerti, but Tchaikovsky and Rach 1 are not something I'm practicing, so what I say will just be my impression of the pieces. Okay, here goes... :)

First, what I think about each concerto as a whole.

Rach 2: This is the concerto that I have the most experience with (Finished the 1st movement, learning the 2nd and 3rd). This, to me, is the most mature out of the concerti. (some will disagree and say the Tchai is more mature, but I think the Rach 2). Rachmaninoff said that it was more uncomfortable than his 3rd concerto, and I can see how that is partially true. The technique in this concerto is sometimes unorthodox, and you really have to be able to balance the textures extremely well. I find that the technique fits into my hands pretty well after LOTS of practice, but there are some extremely difficult parts that never feel right in my left hand. I, like many others, have an affinity with this concerto. Definitely my favorite out of the concerti you listed. I can pretty confidently rate the movements like this, from easiest to hardest: 2nd, 1st, 3rd. The first movement is less pianistic than the 3rd, but the sheer amount of notes in the 3rd movement make up for it. All three movements are not easy at all, and require a high level of technique to pull off, but I would rate it like that.

Rach 1: This is an absolutely marvelous concerti, esp. for being an Op. 1 (although, I will be talking about the revised version of the concerti, since no one plays the actual op 1.). To me, Rach 2's technical difficulties arose because they simply were required to make the sound that Sergei wanted, but Rach 1's difficulties are sort of there because he wanted to make it difficult, if that makes sense. It's got a lot of youthful excesses, while the 2nd has neither too many nor too little notes. There is just a lot of virtuosity, since it was a young composer wanting to show off. Now, that being said, there are also a lot of musical things being said in this concerto, but I find that they are much more natural to interpret than the 2nd concerto. And, I have to mention the cadenza. It is my favorite cadenza of all time. Nothing can beat it, if it's played right. So, my ranking of the movements would go something like this (easiest to hardest): 2nd, 3rd, 1st.

Tchaikovsky 1: Okay, I have to confess something. I'm almost scared to write anything about this concerto, but I happen to be of the small minority that believes this concerto is overrated, both in difficulty and popularity. I know that many people will probably say that I rank the Tchaikovsky too low, but hey, you asked for my opinion, so I'm going to give it to ya straight. The technique in the Tchaikovsky 1st movement can be very unconventional, and it is hard. I'll give it that. However, I find that the technique is much more traditional than rach, and much, much thinner in texture. Lots of octaves, arpeggios, and jumps, but it doesn't scare me too bad. Just work a lot on your octaves. I think that, if I was playing it, the biggest difficulty would be to make a worthwhile interpretation, not banging the whole thing out, and keeping it interesting, because Peter milks every single drop out of each melodic idea (too much for me.). It has its wonderful moments, but it's a lot of rambling and awkward piano for me. It is a nice piece, but not my favorite, esp. compared to the Rach concerti. Ranking: 2nd, 3rd, 1st.

With the concerti as a whole, compared to each other, I would rank them like this:
Easiest
Tchaikovsky
Rach 1
Rach 2
Hardest
(actually, i'm not sure about the rachs. They might be pretty equal. I guess it just depends on my mood... ;D)
Now for the movements. I would probably rank them differently by next month, or maybe even by tomorrow, but this is what I'm feeling at the moment. Take this with not just a grain of salt, but a whole tablespoon, if you know what I'm getting at. More experienced, knowledgeable pianists than I on this forum will tell you differently, and trust them. They know better.

Easiest
Rach 1, 2nd movement
Tchaikovsky, 2nd movement
Rach 2, 2nd movement
Tchaikovsky, 3rd movement
Rach 1, 3rd movement
Rach 2, 1st movement
Tchaikovsky, 1st movement
Rach 1, 1st movement
Rach 2, 3rd movement
Hardest

Let me know what you think. (I'm undecided on how I ranked the last four...)
~The Farmboy

Offline kornv9022

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #3 on: March 23, 2017, 04:58:50 PM
I like the detail. But, I realized I meant to write Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd concerto. I wrote 1 and 2 by accident. Is it possible for you to just write the easiest to hardest list including Rach's 3rd instead of the first? I would be really grateful. I liked how you described the movements.

Offline afarmboysforte

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
I like the detail. But, I realized I meant to write Rachmaninoff's 2nd and 3rd concerto. I wrote 1 and 2 by accident. Is it possible for you to just write the easiest to hardest list including Rach's 3rd instead of the first? I would be really grateful. I liked how you described the movements.

Okay, with Rach 3, we're looking at one of the hardest concerti in the standard repertoire (excluding the rubbish as the 20th, 21st century atonal stuff). I think that any of the three movements would outrank the concerti that I have listed, so it makes updating my list pretty easy. Some people, including Rachmaninoff, found that, once you have the notes, the 3rd concerto was easier to play than the 2nd. However, I don't see how that could be. This is one of my favorite piano concertos of all time. When I listen to it, (esp. to Olga Kern's recording) I truly go somewhere else. This and Brahms 2nd make up the top two on my bucket list of pieces. Trying to read through it, here is the ranking I thought might be the case. All three of the movements are really difficult, and I don't know if they could really be said that one is quite a bit harder than the other. SO, I should say, here is the order that the movements are most scary to me ;). The 1st, I could see myself tackling in a year or two. Second movement, looks to be pretty close to the first, but it looks a little more awkward and thick in its texture, so I'm saying a little more difficult. The third, that truly scares me. I wouldn't take that on, even with the repertoire I'm playing now. I mean, I would need a magnifying glass to read all of those notes. :D

The list I made up would look something like this:

Easiest
Rach 1, 2nd movement
Tchaikovsky, 2nd movement
Rach 2, 2nd movement
Tchaikovsky, 3rd movement
Rach 1, 3rd movement
Rach 2, 1st movement
Tchaikovsky, 1st movement
Rach 1, 1st movement
Rach 2, 3rd movement
Rach 3, 1st movement
Rach 3, 2nd movement
Rach 3, 3rd movement
Hardest

I don't think my reply helped that much, I basically just said that Rach 3 is really, really, hard (and it is :P). We really need someone with experience on all of these pieces to comment. But, I gave it my best shot.  ;) Just curious, why'd you want to know the rankings of these? Are you thinking of taking one of them? Or just curious to see how these greats stack up against each other?

Anyways, all the best.
~The Farmboy

Offline kornv9022

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #5 on: March 23, 2017, 07:12:36 PM
No worries. You did well. I expected that answer for Rach 3. I am trying to add pieces to my repertoire and love these three concertos. Also I am participating in a competition in two years and I am preparing repertoire. For one section we need a movement of a concerto. I do not neccessrily want to learn the easiest concerto, but one I love.

Offline afarmboysforte

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #6 on: March 23, 2017, 08:34:59 PM
No worries. You did well. I expected that answer for Rach 3. I am trying to add pieces to my repertoire and love these three concertos. Also I am participating in a competition in two years and I am preparing repertoire. For one section we need a movement of a concerto. I do not neccessrily want to learn the easiest concerto, but one I love.
What's your repertoire right now? Any concerti experience? I highly suggest you take a look at Skeptopotomus's list in this thread. Just scroll down a little ways and you'll see the concerti list. It's the fifth reply. Tells a whole bunch of rankings. 90% accurate in my book. I really like the thought he put into it.
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=10654.0

Offline kornv9022

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #7 on: March 23, 2017, 10:30:14 PM
I learned Shostakovich's Concerto no.2. Liszt Consolation no.3. Four pages so far of Tchaikovsky's piano concerto. A piano arrangment of Vivaldi's storm which I advanced level. Some chopin etudes, nocturnes that I learned here and there. Nothing too specific. I actually went to level 7 with my piano teacher. Unfortunately at that time I wasnt really passion about piano. I only wanted to play the big works and not work up to it. It wasnt until after I stopped lessons that I realized how much I love the piano. I started practicing a lot on my own and found I could sit for hours at the piano. I did start with challenging pieces right away, but I feel like that brought me up and challenged me to become a better pianist. People tell me that I am too ambitious, but I still do what I do. Surprisingly the beginning pages of the Tchaikovsky concerto weren't terrible hard, but I know I have a long way to go. I do not really have a good repertoire, but I started seriously practicing and in two years even if I don't win want to try the competition to see what I am capable of. I don't give up easily. I will look at Skeptopotomus's list. Thanks for all the suggestions.

Offline afarmboysforte

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Re: Rank these concerto movements in terms of difficulty
Reply #8 on: March 24, 2017, 01:58:24 AM
No problem, I appreciate being able to help. I'll comment on your competition repertoire tomorrow.
~The Farmboy
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