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Grigori Sokolov Live at Théâtre des Champs-Élysées

Film maker Bruno Monsaingeon suggests that with Michelangeli, Gould, and Richter no longer alive, Grigory Sokolov may be the “greatest living pianist.” Listen to the piano recital Sokolov gave at the Theatre des Champs-Elysées in Paris. Read more >>

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Author Topic: What do you guys think about the opening of this?  (Read 562 times)
rachmaninoff_forever
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« on: September 01, 2017, 02:06:02 AM »

https://youtu.be/aI__GnsFP9A

And please don't comment on how you dislike the way she dresses it's stupid Angry

I personally think it sounds weird but that could just be because I'm so used to the original.
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mjames
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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2017, 02:37:42 AM »

Tchk's concerto s u c k s anyways, so it can't get any worse than it already is.
I don't mind arrangements, improvisations, and paraphrases...classical musicians should free about it and not get shamed for doing something different.
Anyways I am enjoying her playing.
Lol she only changed the opening? Then again I guess that's taboo for classical musicians...

I can't wait till she goes full "idgaf" and starts adding in additional counterpoint and re-harmonizing shiet a la godowski> : D!

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rachmaninoff_forever
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2017, 02:52:24 AM »

Tchk's concerto s u c k s anyways, so it can't get any worse than it already is.
I don't mind arrangements, improvisations, and paraphrases...classical musicians should free about it and not get shamed for doing something different.
Anyways I am enjoying her playing.
Lol she only changed the opening? Then again I guess that's taboo for classical musicians...

I can't wait till she goes full "idgaf" and starts adding in additional counterpoint and re-harmonizing shiet a la godowski> : D!



WHAAAAAAATTATATATTTTT?!!?!?!?!!!?!?

Okay low key I'm starting to like it less as the years go by anyways.

But I agree with everything else
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clouseau
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2017, 03:58:42 AM »

Rachmaninoff_forever I agree with you, the opening sounds awkward.
Bad timing between soloist and orchestra at that part (the rolled chords)

Yuja, however, is an amazing talent, technically and musically.
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toughbo
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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2017, 09:28:33 AM »

Isn't this how it was originally written?
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visitor
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2017, 12:18:59 PM »

if she was going to arpegiate/roll the tops, should have sped up the roll and done similar to those in lower registers,or made them one long continuous fast arpegio(s)-roll up to the top. so kudos on the novel approach, strike out on execution since i think she left money on the table in terms of making it more interesting.

really wish she would/would have played the other Tchaikovsky piano+orch fare, vs the xxxth time for the no 1.  Ie the Concert Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra, should could do so much in there and since it never gets played, there would be very little flack on tradition vs improved/spin on the music  to be had.
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ronde_des_sylphes
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2017, 01:09:39 PM »



And please don't comment on how you dislike the way she dresses it's stupid Angry

I personally think it sounds weird but that could just be because I'm so used to the original.

I like the dress more than the arpeggiation of the chords  Grin and I think, as someone has already said, that IS the way it was originally written.
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themeandvariation
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 08:05:26 PM »

"Oh, the rolling, the rolling.."  one member it would seem wouldn't be able to resist commenting on this one..
To me, whether original intent or not, in this context, it softens the edge way too much, of a passage to me that speaks almost explosively - which is totally lost..
ps.. for those who are naysayers on this Tch. concerto as being lesser… i don't get that.. so many interesting innovations… one part almost sounds bebop.. that galloping part in octaves, idk, 5 minutes in?  - Yes it is overplayed, and perhaps that has a wearing away effect of the appreciation of this great piece.. (iirc, folks thought it was unplayable, and terrible when it was first written…
and they thru chairs at the rite of spring premiere, but that piece
too became an iconic symbol.
George Bernard Shaw wrote a scathing review of Beethoven's 9th, in which he focussed on the compositional aspect… (well, i still think that the last movement is quite terrible… always have.. but love the 1st 3 move's..
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mjames
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 09:31:31 PM »

Yes it is overplayed, and perhaps that has a wearing away effect of the appreciation of this great piece..

That's Visitor's problem. To me "overplayed" is never a problem, i listen to what I want whenever I want. I just think Tch's a crappy piano composer.
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clouseau
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 10:42:22 PM »

if the chords are rolled with correct timing, the result is a grandiose feeling, the piano enters more "royally", which fits well into that part. But wrong timing distorts the music to an extent that it can make it sound alien, disjunct and hardly enjoyable(like here). That's why I believe the real problem of those few bars is timing, not rolling.


some music we like, some we don't. But this...

I just think Tch's a crappy piano composer.


left me speechless. You are joking, right?
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mjames
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2017, 12:06:22 AM »

left me speechless. You are joking, right?

Same reaction I get whenever someones tells me they're eager to learn a Tch piano piece.
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themeandvariation
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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2017, 12:42:01 AM »

mjames -- there is much more to him than his piano music.. His Ballets, symphonies,… especially his 6th… (from the brooding opening to his dancing melody in 5/4, which is very catchy)  His amazing sense of orchestration -- brings so much to the table… but you are indeed entitled to your (undescriptive) characterization..   
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mjames
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2017, 12:51:59 AM »

OK I'll listen to 5 Tch works tonight, hopefully I won't suffer an aneurysm.
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cuberdrift
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2017, 07:55:52 AM »

And please don't comment on how you dislike the way she dresses it's stupid Angry

Wait...weren't you the one who said you wanted to play in briefs or something (or have a poster of you half-naked)?  Tongue
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visitor
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2017, 12:01:59 PM »

I like the dress more than the arpeggiation of the chords  Grin and I think, as someone has already said, that IS the way it was originally written.
it's more costume than dress haha she literally has these in multiple colors...and crowd plays right into her plan/hands. She even walks on and off to the rhythm of their applause lol, well as theatrics go, there are quirkier things that could and have been done I suppose. Hahaha

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outin
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2017, 02:18:39 PM »

I just think Tch's a crappy piano composer.
Mr. mjames, I very much agree with you!
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clouseau
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2017, 08:40:49 PM »

In order to judge Tchaikovsky or anyone as a composer, one has to have studied composition. And must be pretty advanced on it. Are you? ...

And in the rare case that you really are a composition expert, tell me what he did wrong in matters of compositional technique/orchestration, which in your opinion, could have been done better! What _exactly_ is "crappy" about him. It's different to say "I don't like Tchaikovsky", maybe it is that what you meant.

"I don't like X" and "X is crap" are two different things

I'm not in love with Tchaikovsky either as I don't like all of his compositions, but still, I have to acknowledge that he is one of the greatest composers our world has ever seen, that he has written masterworks that withstood the test of time.
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mjames
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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2017, 04:15:02 AM »

Calm down mate it's just banter.
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rachmaninoff_forever
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2017, 04:30:41 AM »

Wait...weren't you the one who said you wanted to play in briefs or something (or have a poster of you half-naked)?  Tongue

Yeah dude!  

Honestly I just wanna perform on stage like how I play the piano when I'm in home.

Which is usually regular house clothes, like a wonsie, regular t shirt, hoodie, jersey, dashiki, bathrobe, or shirtless
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klavieronin
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2017, 11:29:30 AM »

I just think Tch's a crappy piano composer.

I could never get into Tchaikovsky either. His music just seems so plain to me. Same with Sibelius.
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nw746
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« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2017, 01:57:59 PM »

This is indeed the original version. One can take issue with how she plays the arpeggios (here's Lazar Berman for comparison) but in general I prefer the original version of the concerto to the one released after Tchaikovsky's death that is more commonly performed today, not just for the arpeggios—the piano writing in general in the earlier version is less thick and more grateful although not as dramatic and "romantic". More Schumann than Rachmaninov.

Some actually believe the 1894 version is not authentic at all and the full chords were in fact added by Siloti, similar to the cuts made in the revised version of the 2nd Concerto. I don't know the facts on that.



Also I'd probably wear that dress if I was in as good shape as she is, lol
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