Who of you, pianists, wants to earn $ 1 for each SECOND of your performing?

[vladimirdounin]

This is not a joke, I am absolutely serious.

You are required to play a very popular, simple, easy song for grade IV of Music School at a  tempo "Quarter Note = 100 bpm" There is no one Sixsteenth, only Eighth = 200 bpm.

If you make recording at this tempo, this song is only 75 seconds long. That's all. Done.

I want to pay for this job $ 75. It equals $ 1 for each second. I would like to be paid so generously but never had such a wonderful chance.

We can discuss here the best form of payment in our circumstances.  For  example,  "Golden Membership" at this site or anything else.

Why do I need this from you? Because NO ONE wants to do it free. Now I know exactly, how much the members of this forum like their art and profession.

My reasons: I hate slavery and brainwashing. For example, In former USSR people were forced to condemn the prohibited writers without any chance to read their books.
Their letters and speeches started with the ridiculous words: "I did not read, but I condemn..."

Absolutely the same I see on this Forum.  "I did not play, but I condemn"

I called everyone to try this song in its authentic tempo 100 because I did it already with the amazing results:
If you play this song at composer's tempo  to anyone, who did not hear it before and then let the same person to hear funeral like "interpretation" of any pianist on You Tube - everyone gets shocked.
"How such a famous pianists can play in such a terrible and stupid way?" - they say.

Here works so called "imprinting". In two words:
if the chickens hatched from the egg first saw a dog or even a model of a train in their life, they already for a lifetime consider this dog or train their mother and follow them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)

Absolutely the same happens to us, musicians. The first impression from the song is extremely strong, and it is very difficult to change one's mind about it.

I had the same problem with this song but I solved it. I share my "know how" with you:
just play this song several times at speed not "100" but "200".

After "200" you will  be as comfortable at "100"  as fish in water. 

According to Henle (read it in my article on this song      https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=64437.0 ) ALL the pianists, who played at 100 did not tolerate "funeral tempo" anymore and played only at composer's tempo.

I wish you the same result. And I am looking forward to read your suggestions on my project.

Good Luck! 

[marik1]

Dear Vladimir, your perpetual use of "song" instead of "piece" sounds very unprofessional, so you might want to consider revising it...

It is not about the tempo, but rather feeling and just correct phrasing and musical pronunciation. So called "correct tempo" doesn't serve any musical idea, or doesn't have any meaning--without musical content it is irrelevant. Moreover, meaning of "correct tempo" depends on many acoustical factors, not the least, acoustics of the hall, quality of the instrument, etc. Also, as any professional concertizing pianist/musician would know, it is of the utmost importance the timing of the piece in the recital--beginning, end, main body, or encore... IOW, Traumerei performed as a part of Kinderscenen has one meaning, but as an encore--totally different... Those would inevitably affect the tempo...

In the end, it can be fast, it can be slow, it can be quarter=100, it could be "funeral tempo", but unless any of those serve a certain musical idea, it doesn't make any sense...

Best wishes, M

[klavieronin]

Dear Vladimir,

I'm sorry you have been given such a hard time on this forum over your interpretation of Schumann's Träumerei. It seems it has left you a little upset and I apologise if anything I said contributed to this. Please don't waste any of your money trying to prove a point. Not everybody is going to agree no matter what argument you put forward.

klavieronin.

[timothy42b]

I think it might be interesting to hear Louis Podesta weigh in on this topic.

Perhaps we have. 

[cimirro]

Vladimir,
I sent you a PM because I already have a project (Youchoose music project) working about this subject where people can ask me to make recordings by paying the studio time as listed in this website:
https://opusdissonus.com.br/youchoose.htm
and there are examples of recordings already requested.

So it is up to you, see the e-mail and contact me for more details.

Best
Artur

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Dear Vladimir, potentially, your perpetual and unprofessional use of "song" instead of "piece" by itself could negate any validity of your ideas, so you might want to consider revising it...

That has nothing to do with anything and anyone who uses that to reduce the validity of his ideas is just a snob

[timothy42b]

That has nothing to do with anything and anyone who uses that to reduce the validity of his ideas is just a snob

Consider that English does not appear to be the first language of the OP.  I tend to be less critical of specific word usage - few of us can converse in Russian or whatever it is. 

[tenk]

This is the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic? Give it up. If you want to continue blathering on about this 100 bpm Träumerei nonsense, keep it in your original thread.

[timothy42b]

This is the 3rd or 4th thread on this topic? Give it up. If you want to continue blathering on about this 100 bpm Träumerei nonsense, keep it in your original thread.

No, no, don't give up yet.  Submit it to wkmt.  They'll have something to say. 

[marik1]

Consider that English does not appear to be the first language of the OP.  I tend to be less critical of specific word usage - few of us can converse in Russian or whatever it is.  

Nah, it is not about English--it is more about attitude--after all Vladimir knows English well enough to claim that [Horowitz] performance 'so terrible and stupid', or nonsenses like "Nadezda Golubovskaya (she shared the First Prize with Sergei Rachmaninov at graduation)"--it is worth noticing that Rachmaninov graduated in 1891 and Nadezhda Golubovskaya was born... in 1891.

In any case, I edited my message, suggesting to pay attention to the "song" thing...

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The spurious use of "song" when debating interpretation of approach and methodology is deeply incongruous, if you ask me. Doesn't invalidate the central idea of course, which should be dealt with on musical grounds, but still..

[vladimirdounin]

Nah, it is not about English--it is more about attitude--after all Vladimir knows English well enough to claim that [Horowitz] performance 'so terrible and stupid', or nonsenses like "Nadezda Golubovskaya (she shared the First Prize with Sergei Rachmaninov at graduation)"--it is worth noticing that Rachmaninov graduated in 1891 and Nadezhda Golubovskaya was born... in 1891.

In any case, I edited my message, suggesting to pay attention to the "song" thing...

Thank you very much for an  important correction.  I just believed the stories of Golubovskaya's pupils but had never checked them self.  In fact,  she shared the Prize not with Sergei Rachmaninov but with Sergei Prokofiev (I got it from Wiki "на выпускном экзамене Голубовская была главной соперницей Сергея Прокофьева за высшую награду выпускнику").  I am sorry.

However, regarding "so terrible and stupid" - these words are not mine, as you know. It is usual  reactions of all "guinea pigs"  just on Tempo. Don't I have the  right to quote them?  

Do the same test on  UNBIASED audience and THEN refute and deny my results, but not BEFORE the test. "I did not play, but I condemn" - this is a ridiculous position.    

[marik1]

Thank you very much for an  important correction.  I just believed the stories of Golubovskaya's pupils but had never checked them self.

That's quite strange, as besides quite obvious age differences it is a well known fact that Rachmaninov graduated from Moscow Conservatory, while Golubovskaya from St. Petersburg one...

In fact,  she shared the Prize not with Sergei Rachmaninov but with Sergei Prokofiev (I got it from Wiki "на выпускном экзамене Голубовская была главной соперницей Сергея Прокофьева за высшую награду выпускнику").  

No, from the text in Russian (as far as I could understand it) we know that she was the main contender for that Prize. From that text it is unclear whether she shared it, or received, at all.

However, regarding "so terrible and stupid" - these words are not mine, as you know. It is usual  reactions of all "guinea pigs"  just on Tempo. Don't I have the  right to quote them?  

Do the same test on  UNBIASED audience and THEN refute and deny my results, but not BEFORE the test. "I did not play, but I condemn" - this is a ridiculous position.    

I do not know your "guinea pigs". The fact itself they reacted just on Tempo itself without music content of the performance (something any more or less knowledgeable, or fairly educated audience would NEVER do) already suggests that there is something wrong with your test.

It is even more strange that you claim that you studied in such respectable institution as Moscow Conservatory and then can be serious about that kind of test.

In any case, it is just enough for me to have my own opinion. As I stated, one can play any Tempo, as long as music, phrasing, sensitivity, mood, and just musical meaning are there. IOW, I do not (and never) argued that Traumerei can be played at 100bpm, it is just that music sample you posted did not convince me. Sorry, it did not strike me like after listening to it I would be inclined to call Horowitz' performance 'so terrible and stupid'. Why after that would I seek for yet another opinion of some 'guinea pigs'?

But probably your audience knows better, so indeed, you could find my position ridiculous--that's your right.

Best, M

[chopinlover01]

I mean, I'll play shitty interpretations of Schumann for $75

The music itself is already mostly terrible.

[pencilart3]

I am absolutely serious.

This is where you went wrong

[vladimirdounin]

That's quite strange, as besides quite obvious age differences it is a well known fact that Rachmaninov graduated from Moscow Conservatory, while Golubovskaya from St. Petersburg one...

No, from the text in Russian (as far as I could understand it) we know that she was the main contender for that Prize. From that text it is unclear whether she shared it, or received, at all.

I do not know your "guinea pigs". The fact itself they reacted just on Tempo itself without music content of the performance (something any more or less knowledgeable, or fairly educated audience would NEVER do) already suggests that there is something wrong with your test.

It is even more strange that you claim that you studied in such respectable institution as Moscow Conservatory and then can be serious about that kind of test.

In any case, it is just enough for me to have my own opinion. As I stated, one can play any Tempo, as long as music, phrasing, sensitivity, mood, and just musical meaning are there. IOW, I do not (and never) argued that Traumerei can be played at 100bpm, it is just that music sample you posted did not convince me. Sorry, it did not strike me like after listening to it I would be inclined to call Horowitz' performance 'so terrible and stupid'. Why after that would I seek for yet another opinion of some 'guinea pigs'?

But probably your audience knows better, so indeed, you could find my position ridiculous--that's your right.

Best, M

I was at this Forum 10 years ago and lost interest because "all the talks about the Music are worth no more than well described dinner" (Liszt) In Russian: "Все разговоры о музыке вместе взятые стоят одного хорошо рассказанного обеда" .  If you can - translate better, please.

If I played Traumerei -"100" at Conservatory or at hostel, I am sure that no less than 10-20 pianists  tried to do it better than I did  immediately - normal reaction on challenge.

Here I feel a typical reaction of very, very old people (the soul is old even if you are 16.) Do you learn to swim? - This is very unhealthy and dangerous.  Do you learn to drive bicycle? -  Nobody needs it. Taxi is much better , etc. No spirit of sportive challenge and desire of exploration.
Only talking, talking, talking.  A bit boring.

[dogperson]

Interesting that you claim you were last on this website 10 years ago, when you posted here in May and June of this year and also in 2012.  Someone must've been using your login. 

And I guess all piano forums are full of 'old souls' as  you received the same reaction on another piano forum.

[marik1]

I was at this Forum 10 years ago and lost interest because "all the talks about the Music are worth no more than well described dinner" (Liszt) In Russian: "Все разговоры о музыке вместе взятые стоят одного хорошо рассказанного обеда" .  If you can - translate better, please.

I would love to see the source of this quote, if I may.

If I played Traumerei -"100" at Conservatory or at hostel, I am sure that no less than 10-20 pianists  tried to do it better than I did  immediately - normal reaction on challenge.

I am afraid to disappoint you--most of the hostel visitors would not care about Traumerei... not at 40, not at 100, not even at 200bpm...

Conservatory level students would have totally different interests, challenges, or repertoire--I can assure you--the Tempo in Traumerei at that age and level would not be a big deal... definitely not worth 3 threads on a public forum...

Here I feel a typical reaction of very, very old people (the soul is old even if you are 16.) Do you learn to swim? - This is very unhealthy and dangerous.  Do you learn to drive bicycle? -  Nobody needs it. Taxi is much better , etc. No spirit of sportive challenge and desire of exploration.
Only talking, talking, talking.  A bit boring.

If I posted a list of what I've learnt and accomplished in the last couple years, that probably would not be interesting for the most of people here and completely out of topic (in any case, most would not even know what I am talking about).

As for 'talking, talking, talking', judging by sheer length of your posts that would not be hard to see who does the most of that...

Best wishes, M