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Member with single posts starting threads (Read 14472 times)

Online lostinidlewonder

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Member with single posts starting threads
« on: September 13, 2020, 03:14:33 AM »
Should make a certain amount of posts are required before you can create threads, many of these new members have a single post (some of which are simply copy pasted from other sites) and never post again.
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Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #1 on: September 13, 2020, 05:03:14 AM »
Should make a certain amount of posts are required before you can create threads, many of these new members have a single post (some of which are simply copy pasted from other sites) and never post again.

It's a good thought, but on the other hand, it's sort of the nature of web forums.

I'd rather see language restrictions lifted if one should respond to the sort of people who post links to their rudimentary websites selling some undefined "method" or a youtube link unaccompanied by a complete description in language of its content.

That's truly the plague:  "I have a new method sold only here and on late-night television commercials, you can chop fish with it, use it as a hat, and it's good for learning things like jazz and music, but I can't tell you the secret here in words, you must visit my website and buy now for the very low fee of n units of money!" 

I suppose people in general are a bit too credulous and actually think such people will provide information, but if any rules are to be made, I'd say that's the prime target.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #2 on: September 15, 2020, 03:24:48 AM »
It's a good thought, but on the other hand, it's sort of the nature of web forums.
I don't think it's the norm though to have single posts and just never respond or come back, pretty much a leech for info or just spam either way rude.
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Offline dogperson

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #3 on: October 18, 2020, 09:01:08 AM »

Iím not sure I have seen any first-time posts that are actually genuine for a while.  Very disheartening to wonder if these are genuine, possibly reply, and find out that it a copied topic from five years ago.  Maybe it is time to not allow first posters to start a thread until they have replied to current threads.  I hope we hear from PS about this topic.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #4 on: October 18, 2020, 09:46:20 AM »
There have been a spate of new posters who copy over old questions from Reddit.  Lostinidlewonder responded to one of them today.  I wrote in what it was afterward.

Getting new posters to first respond to an existing post seems a good idea.

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #5 on: October 18, 2020, 10:04:47 AM »
Problem is - they may do exactly the same thing. They use someone elses thread to simply paste in an answer from Reddit and then days later add in their hyperlink.

I GENUINELY believe the only way to stop it is let the users create a login, then have a 48-72 hour delay before they can reply or make a new topic. This way, it's a bother for them to come back at a later time/date to do what they hoped they could do initially on the spot.

Offline quantum

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #6 on: October 18, 2020, 10:21:42 PM »
They have already used replies to existing threads and inserted those links.

From the point of view of a genuine new user, they might want to create an account and post right away because they have a question that they really need help with.  It could turn them away if they find out they need to wait several days before they post their question. 

Limiting external links for new posters could be one possibility. 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline nilsjohan

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #7 on: October 19, 2020, 12:21:41 PM »
From the point of view of a genuine new user, they might want to create an account and post right away because they have a question that they really need help with.  It could turn them away if they find out they need to wait several days before they post their question. 
Yes, preventing new members from posting is not an ideal solution, but on the other hand, the appeal to reply to new members' posts will decline if the spamming continues.

We take the problem seriously and are blocking or deleting several new spammers every day. They are often waiting a few day after registering before making the first post and then another few days before adding links inside their posts. Since these spam accounts and posts are created manually by humans they are very hard to block. Whatever hurdles we set up there is always a way to get around them if you are willing to spend your time.

While we tweek our systems to decrease the amount of spam that gets through, if you spot something, please just use the "report to modrator" link and post  a short message "Reported as spam" by replying to the topic.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #8 on: October 19, 2020, 01:59:03 PM »
Nils, I suppose that we can help with this a couple of ways.   A lot of us are now alert to this practice, and can vet a post by a new person for this practice.  I found it rather easy and fast to do.  If we do find a "copy from reddit (or wherever)" we can immediately alert you to that through the "report" button.

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #9 on: October 20, 2020, 02:17:44 AM »
Yes, preventing new members from posting is not an ideal solution, but on the other hand, the appeal to reply to new members' posts will decline if the spamming continues.
Groups like critters.org who have been going for like a 25 years require that you actually respond to other peoples works before you can have your own works commented on. It promotes activity from users to interact with the group. Might be an interesting solution to test? Gold members shouldn't have to do it but the free members should contribute comments on other peoples posts, perhaps will make gold membership even more attractive to some new members.
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Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #10 on: October 20, 2020, 11:09:24 AM »
Groups like critters.org who have been going for like a 25 years require that you actually respond to other peoples works before you can have your own works commented on.

Again, brings up the problem...

they may do exactly the same thing. They use someone elses thread to simply paste in an answer from Reddit and then days later add in their hyperlink.

Offline keypeg

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #11 on: October 20, 2020, 11:27:17 AM »
Actually, in the forum for my profession I see a different variant.  A new member will come in and write something generically vague that could be pasted.  "This is very interesting."  "Quite helpful."  Sometimes I'll respond, "What in particular did you find especially interesting / helpful?" to call them out in case it wasn't sincere. At times they surprise me by being real people and having something to say.  :)

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #12 on: October 20, 2020, 02:12:11 PM »
Again, brings up the problem...
A copy paste of a reddit answer into someone elses thread will look strange though especially if the thread they respond to has a specific question in mind.

With a history of responses to other posts you can see a bit more of their worth at least, any with a page of single word or pasted generic answers probably should be ignored if they ask a lengthy question of their own. 

It also takes time to respond to posts so if you see a mad dash to respond to heaps of threads with useless remarks it reveals who they are more clearly.
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Offline Bob

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #13 on: October 20, 2020, 10:35:35 PM »
I don't see a problem with cross posting.  I've done that.  You get more responses and figure out where you're going to get better responses for future questions.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline quantum

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #14 on: October 20, 2020, 11:19:59 PM »
Groups like critters.org who have been going for like a 25 years require that you actually respond to other peoples works before you can have your own works commented on. It promotes activity from users to interact with the group. Might be an interesting solution to test? Gold members shouldn't have to do it but the free members should contribute comments on other peoples posts, perhaps will make gold membership even more attractive to some new members.

One of the things I like about Pianostreet is the honesty of responses.  People post because they have something to say, not because they are required to say something to receive responses in return.  The insight of knowing when not to respond is just as valuable as knowing when to.

IMO, the danger in this approach is that people might start replying with generic responses in order to satisfy a certain requirement. 


I don't see a problem with cross posting.  I've done that.  You get more responses and figure out where you're going to get better responses for future questions.

True.  Cross posting to different communities can give you a more diversified set of answers from people that may have varying perspectives on a topic.
 
Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Offline dogperson

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #15 on: October 21, 2020, 12:47:39 AM »
One of the things I like about Pianostreet is the honesty of responses.  People post because they have something to say, not because they are required to say something to receive responses in return.  The insight of knowing when not to respond is just as valuable as knowing when to.

IMO, the danger in this approach is that people might start replying with generic responses in order to satisfy a certain requirement. 


True.  Cross posting to different communities can give you a more diversified set of answers from people that may have varying perspectives on a topic.

It does seem like most of the Ďcross-postersí  do not post at the same time.  I would have no issue with that... but the original post is months/years prior to posting here.  That canít be a genuine attempt to get varied viewpoints

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #16 on: October 21, 2020, 01:42:42 AM »
IMO, the danger in this approach is that people might start replying with generic responses in order to satisfy a certain requirement. 
I mean pianostreet doesn't get much activity as it used to. I also feel that if there is a history of someones posts to look at you can see if they are clearly legit from there, whether they are spammers or not is not a certainty but you can see patterns through their past responses which indicate where you would lean. It would unaviodably encourage others to respond more and the psychology of having some kind of currency to post a question might encourage more legit posting too.
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Offline ranjit

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #17 on: October 21, 2020, 05:46:01 AM »
One of the things I like about Pianostreet is the honesty of responses.  People post because they have something to say, not because they are required to say something to receive responses in return.  The insight of knowing when not to respond is just as valuable as knowing when to.
Agreed with liw. The fact that pianostreet has much less activity than it used to changes things. If you really look at recent posts, it's usually the same 4 or 5 people answering. Making some changes isn't unwarranted at this point -- who knows, it might even help the forum.

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #18 on: October 25, 2020, 01:04:12 AM »
Yeah I think if you do some sort of response vs creating threads system it will create more activity both good and bad which is in my opinion simply better than silence. Even these copy/paste threads are better than nothing (especially if we don't care if the OP responds or not) but it's pretty sad to state that.
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Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #19 on: February 14, 2021, 12:51:54 AM »
So this single post poster rubbish is still going on. Any solution rather than us constantly reporting itís just a little silly and repetitive. Make it a little more difficult for them to post.
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Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #20 on: February 14, 2021, 01:04:29 AM »
Well, there's always outright mockery of anyone starting a thread about some stupid app (unless they post a link to the source code hosted on a reputable site), or transparently shilling some youtube "performance" or "analysis."
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline ranjit

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #21 on: February 14, 2021, 02:35:54 AM »
Well, there's always outright mockery of anyone starting a thread about some stupid app (unless they post a link to the source code hosted on a reputable site), or transparently shilling some youtube "performance" or "analysis."
I don't think they care. These "people" are probably some kind of scam advertising agents of companies and getting paid for each post.

Offline lelle

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #22 on: February 17, 2021, 04:17:31 PM »
I agree with the dislike for people who register an account and then post a topic to advertise something as their first and only post. But I don't understand why people reposting something they posted on reddit a while ago in itself would be a problem? If I had a question I wanted answers to I could see myself reposting it if I joined a new community.

I think it's good for the community though if new users can post threads if they have genuine questions. I think we should make sure the forum feels welcoming for new members. Creating barriers for posting seems counterproductive for that.

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #23 on: February 18, 2021, 10:08:26 AM »
But I don't understand why people reposting something they posted on reddit a while ago in itself would be a problem?

That's easy... because the people who copy & paste from Reddit, DIDN'T write the original Reddit thread. They're just using it to sign up here, copy something from it and then insert some dodgy hyperlink or advertisement.

Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #24 on: February 18, 2021, 03:45:13 PM »
They're just using it to sign up here, copy something from it and then insert some dodgy hyperlink or advertisement.

But they're adding value.  Whither piano playing without proprietary mobile phone apps?  And utuber spammers are among the best:  definitely neat people who deserve advertising dollars by posting links to their helpful, unique "lessons."  (Not included are links to legitimate performances, which are OK, generally).

Very insensitive to shunt these magnanimous souls to the bowels of the internet. 

My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline lelle

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #25 on: February 18, 2021, 09:30:03 PM »
That's easy... because the people who copy & paste from Reddit, DIDN'T write the original Reddit thread. They're just using it to sign up here, copy something from it and then insert some dodgy hyperlink or advertisement.

Oh, I'm specifically referring to people who don't post dody hyperlinks/advertisements. I don't like those either. But I have seen people responding to first posts with "this is from reddit" who didn't include links/ads.

I don't like the advertisers either, but if the choice is between allowing them or making new users feel unwelcome I think it's better to let people feel welcome here.

Offline ranjit

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #26 on: February 18, 2021, 09:35:32 PM »
So the issue is that you can modify posts. These dodgy posters add in hyperlinks after a few days.

How about making it impossible to edit your very first post on the website, and then making it possible thereafter? That might work.

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #27 on: February 18, 2021, 10:20:55 PM »
Maybe, but they can also change their signature, and that's another way they advertise.

Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #28 on: February 19, 2021, 03:57:53 AM »
Ranjit does bring up what I believe is a very old argument.

(Practically) infinite edit, and no public record of edits, is really a license to ill. 

On the one hand, there are evolving viewpoints and one hopes many times matters are discussed of some weight.  So, perhaps a five or fifteen minute "window" is not adapative for this forum. 

It is incongruous that one may edit posts for a very long time ab initio, but not delete one's own posts, but I don't know anything about web design.

Meh, I keep hard copies of everything to a regular local rsync at home, and there have been outages from traffic here, but it is something to think about.

Twenty-four hour edit?
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline ranjit

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #29 on: February 20, 2021, 05:13:42 AM »
I think you should allow editing imo. Most people would use it responsibly. Just don't allow it for the very first post someone makes on the site lol

Offline quantum

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #30 on: February 22, 2021, 01:51:58 AM »
For many years editing was not a problem on Pianostreet, except for a few very unfortunate incidents.  There were index threads that depended on the ability for users to edit. 

I think a restriction for new users ability to include external hyperlinks in their post and signature would be a possible solution.  The restriction could be lifted after a set amount of posts. 

Made a Liszt. Need new Handel's for Soler panel & Alkan foil. Will Faure Stein on the way to pick up Mendels' sohn. Josquin get Wolfgangs Schu with Clara. Gone Chopin, I'll be Bach

Online lostinidlewonder

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #31 on: February 22, 2021, 02:20:29 AM »
Yeah editing here is pretty good. Pianoworld has like a ridculously short time to edit your work it is so bad that you often have to simply leave errors in your posts. I'm pretty much getting to the point where I will ignore all people with single posts or anyone who doesn't have a history of real responses.
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Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #32 on: March 05, 2021, 09:08:42 AM »
Yet again this "person" tries to shill his garbage.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=67547.msg707008#msg707008

Yeah, I reported it, but I don't understand what's wrong with these "humans."

Dudebro!  Nice videos, dude!  How much do you bench, bro?  Yeah!  The trash these people come up with is worse than anything I've ever seen on a television.  Pure garbage. 

I think people should wise up, if they're not already aware, that Youtube is a nest of vipers with one and only one goal:  short term monetization with perhaps some end game.  There is absolutely no reason to watch somebody soiling themselves on camera for cash, which is what 99% of this trash is.

And any "app" advertisement without a link to source code on GitHub or similar is exactly the same.  Garbage.  Made by and for trash pretending to be humans.  Either pretend to contribute to a discussion about the merits of a given app, or just hang yourself.  Those are the two options.

If these pieces of trash paid PianoStreet for the privilege of spamming their crap, that would be one thing:  I'd accept that.  PianoStreet has bills to pay.  But it appears to me the various TechDudeBro monkeys are simply taking advantage without compensating PS.

But tolerating garbage without recompense is the height of a foolish business decision.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline nilsjohan

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #33 on: March 06, 2021, 11:45:46 AM »
Point taken. But due to our 100% ad free policy there is no way for neither spammers nor legitimate advertisers to pay for visibility on any page under pianostreet.com. This means we must draw the line somewhere between pure commercial intent and contribution of valuable content. Sometimes it is a difficult decision, such as for example in the videos you link to, "5 More Pieces to Play Instead of Fur Elise", (now merged to a single topic: https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=67288.0 ).

What do you all think, should this kind of videos be allowed?
Should we have a separate section of the forum where members transparently can share/promote their own content?

Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #34 on: March 06, 2021, 05:30:15 PM »
Should we have a separate section of the forum where members transparently can share/promote their own content?

The thought did cross my mind:  I don't know if people would willingly post to a subforum called "Spam 'R Us," or the like, but if it were named in a more neutral fashion, that sounds equitable.

In fact, reasonable advertisers would likely relish the notion of having a space where they could avoid public ridicule or censure.

I'd hate to lose out on valuable video content, or even suggestions for software, provided that they are present in the context of a larger discussion. In the "regular" forums, that is.

You seem to be pretty even-tempered and thoughtful, Nils, so I'm sure however you decide will have some merit.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline perfect_pitch

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #35 on: March 07, 2021, 02:42:57 AM »
What do you all think, should this kind of videos be allowed?
Should we have a separate section of the forum where members transparently can share/promote their own content?

For me, the problem isn't people who upload videos... for me, it's those who upload videos purely just to try and increase their viewcount.

They know exactly who they are - they upload their videos, and may reply when people comment about their videos; but their only purpose here is to make thread after thread about their videos. They know exactly who they are; almost every post is just one of their videos they share... a number of them which aren't even recent, but years old; again - they upload just for the view count.

Now while someone might draw the parallel about me posting videos about my arrangements, I'd like to point out that I was a member here for over 10 years before I started posting my arrangements and had spent years in discussion about various topics that I didn't start but was happy to contribute to.

Online j_tour

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Re: Member with single posts starting threads
«Reply #36 on: March 07, 2021, 02:53:30 AM »
They know exactly who they are; almost every post is just one of their videos they share... a number of them which aren't even recent, but years old; again - they upload just for the view count.

But I've constructed a new system of learning jazz.

It's not even music theory:  it's jazz theory. 

So it's like theory plus one better. 

Now while someone might draw the parallel about me posting videos about my arrangements, I'd like to point out that I was a member here for over 10 years before I started posting my arrangements and had spent years in discussion about various topics that I didn't start but was happy to contribute to.

Someone might, but they'd be wrong.  I haven't been here as long as you, so maybe I missed something, but I haven't seen you spam the board with threads devoted to your advertisements.  Rather the opposite:  I've looked at some of your arrangements and thought to myself, 'That damned fool should do 'Waltzing Matilda'!'  That's the best use of hyperlinks, IMHO.

And, trust me, you know I think you're a mortal enemy, so I've no motive to dissemble! 

;D

(That's a kind of a joke, for people who don't lurk in "The Last Post Wins" thread:  it's a deadly combat!  Meant in a joking manner.)
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.