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Topic: Help to chose classical sonata  (Read 2207 times)

Offline artlin02

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Help to chose classical sonata
on: June 14, 2022, 11:22:22 AM
Hi!
I’m currently preparing the required repertoire for next years application to conservatories. One piece has to be a classical sonata (by Haydn, Mozart or Beethoven), and some schools ask specifically for a Viennese classic one.  I was wondering if anyone have any suggestions. I’m looking for something that isn’t over-played, and not too hard or too easy.
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Offline nightwindsonata

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #1 on: June 14, 2022, 04:46:33 PM
You didn't give much to go on, but here are some of the Viennese Sonatas I've played:

Mozart Sonata K.457
Beethoven Sonata Op. 27 No. 2
Beethoven Sonata Op. 2 No. 1
Beethoven Sonata Op. 10 No. 1
Beethoven Sonata Op. 31 No. 3
Beethoven Sonata Op. 78
Beethoven Sonata Op. 87a

Of these, I would recommend staying away from the Op. 87a or the Op. 31 No. 3, these are really hard and better content for a master's level audition, rather than an undergrad (Op. 31 No. 3 got me into grad school). Beethoven Op. 2 No. 1 or Op. 10 No. 1 might be your best bet, I played both of these in my freshman year. The Mozart I played in high school with more or less success, like all Mozart it's a double edged sword, in that played well it's very compelling and beautiful, but if unprepared it completely ruins the panel's perception of your playing.
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1st-year Master's Program:
- Ravel Piano Concerto
- Liszt Ricordanza
- Liszt 3 Liebestraums
- Liszt 3 Sonnets

- Rhapsody in Blue
- Dante Sonata
- Schubert Sonata D.780
- Mozart Piano Quartet in Gm

Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #2 on: June 14, 2022, 05:15:24 PM
I'll add Beethoven's Op. 10 No. 2. That piece is really nice and sunny. Very clearly classical as well.

Also I think nightwindsonata is referring to Op. 81a rather than Op. 87a, which is a trio.
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline anacrusis

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 09:43:54 AM
I think Haydn has many good audition sonatas. I feel more comfortable playing Haydn than Mozart, it's slightly less sensitive in my opinion.
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Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 05:50:29 PM
Quote from: anacrusis on June 15, 2022, 09:43:54 AM
I think Haydn has many good audition sonatas. I feel more comfortable playing Haydn than Mozart, it's slightly less sensitive in my opinion.
Lots of humour and character. Also many underplayed pieces
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline nightwindsonata

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #5 on: June 16, 2022, 06:51:43 AM
Quote from: bwl_13 on June 14, 2022, 05:15:24 PM
I'll add Beethoven's Op. 10 No. 2. That piece is really nice and sunny. Very clearly classical as well.

Also I think nightwindsonata is referring to Op. 81a rather than Op. 87a, which is a trio.

Lol yea I meant Op. 81a, the "Les Adieux"
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1st-year Master's Program:
- Ravel Piano Concerto
- Liszt Ricordanza
- Liszt 3 Liebestraums
- Liszt 3 Sonnets

- Rhapsody in Blue
- Dante Sonata
- Schubert Sonata D.780
- Mozart Piano Quartet in Gm

Offline hmoll53

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #6 on: June 27, 2022, 10:02:05 PM
Any Sonata by Schubert and Mozart are pretty good. (Schubert's late Sonatas are quite long and tedious, which Schumann said "it goes no where", I got that quote from a book but I forgot the name).
Beethoven is more or so a less definitive stab. Some could be the most effectivei choices but some are very ineffective. Avoid overplayed ones that aren't challenging, e.g. Moonlight, Tempest, Pathetique. The Big 3 of the middle period are all overplayed as well but difficult enough to be impressive. Don't get me wrong, they are all excellent, but overplayed pieces makes it very hard to impress judges since they have played to almost no space for fresh air. The late Sonatas are also quite a controversial take, they are difficult musicially and people might disagree over your interpretation, even if you think yours is good.
Haydn has some nice ones, especially the E-flat Major and C Minor.
Though in the end, technical difficult doesn't matter as much as the articulation, clearity, and understanding of the classical era and how its music was at the time. Just pick a piece that isn't overplayed to death and go with it, the more important thing is howo well you play it  ;D
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Some Current Repertoire:
Scriabin: Sonatas 2,4 and 5
Chopin: Ballade 1,4, Scherzo 1
Rachmaninoff: Concerto 3
Ravel: Gaspard de la Nuit
Barber: Sonata
Beethoven: Appassionata

Offline lelle

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #7 on: June 28, 2022, 10:47:45 AM
Quote from: hmoll53 on June 27, 2022, 10:02:05 PM
Any Sonata by Schubert and Mozart are pretty good. (Schubert's late Sonatas are quite long and tedious, which Schumann said "it goes no where", I got that quote from a book but I forgot the name).
Beethoven is more or so a less definitive stab. Some could be the most effectivei choices but some are very ineffective. Avoid overplayed ones that aren't challenging, e.g. Moonlight, Tempest, Pathetique. The Big 3 of the middle period are all overplayed as well but difficult enough to be impressive. Don't get me wrong, they are all excellent, but overplayed pieces makes it very hard to impress judges since they have played to almost no space for fresh air. The late Sonatas are also quite a controversial take, they are difficult musicially and people might disagree over your interpretation, even if you think yours is good.
Haydn has some nice ones, especially the E-flat Major and C Minor.
Though in the end, technical difficult doesn't matter as much as the articulation, clearity, and understanding of the classical era and how its music was at the time. Just pick a piece that isn't overplayed to death and go with it, the more important thing is howo well you play it  ;D

Oh my god, is there someone else on this planet who thinks Schubert is tedious? I thought I was the only one :D Everyone reveres those last sonatas as immortal masterpieces. I think they got some nice ideas but I just don't connect with them.
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Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #8 on: July 03, 2022, 04:30:47 AM
Quote from: lelle on June 28, 2022, 10:47:45 AM
Oh my god, is there someone else on this planet who thinks Schubert is tedious? I thought I was the only one :D Everyone reveres those last sonatas as immortal masterpieces. I think they got some nice ideas but I just don't connect with them.
Can't agree. I love late Schubert. Although I do have to be in a different headspace to enjoy them. The Bb especially is just so beautiful. I really enjoyed Schiff's lecture on the sonata, it gave me a new appreciation of it.
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline jamienc

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #9 on: July 04, 2022, 10:32:18 AM
Yeah, I can’t agree more on the discussion about Schubert. He is just so long-winded in his larger structures. Unless you’re going to play that delightful A major Sonata I would probably avoid any of the others for an audition. Even the Impromptus get tiresome after a while. When I was at IU, the studio of Bill Battersby performed all of the Impromptus in one concert. My God! I thought it was never going to end!

If you really wanted to present a classical sonata that is very rarely played, you might look at that little Beethoven sonata nestled between the two war horses (Op. 53 and 57). I have only heard it performed once in my life in a live setting, and it was very effective! Of course, it is not the easiest to perform, but it might be unique enough to help you stand out.
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Offline lelle

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #10 on: July 04, 2022, 10:54:51 AM
Quote from: jamienc on July 04, 2022, 10:32:18 AM
Yeah, I can’t agree more on the discussion about Schubert. He is just so long-winded in his larger structures. Unless you’re going to play that delightful A major Sonata I would probably avoid any of the others for an audition. Even the Impromptus get tiresome after a while. When I was at IU, the studio of Bill Battersby performed all of the Impromptus in one concert. My God! I thought it was never going to end!

If you really wanted to present a classical sonata that is very rarely played, you might look at that little Beethoven sonata nestled between the two war horses (Op. 53 and 57). I have only heard it performed once in my life in a live setting, and it was very effective! Of course, it is not the easiest to perform, but it might be unique enough to help you stand out.

The sonata Op. 54? Heck yeah! I've played and performed that one, it's really underrated. Difficult to make comprehensive for an audience though, might be why it's rarely played.
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Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #11 on: July 05, 2022, 03:10:09 AM
Quote from: lelle on July 04, 2022, 10:54:51 AM
The sonata Op. 54? Heck yeah! I've played and performed that one, it's really underrated. Difficult to make comprehensive for an audience though, might be why it's rarely played.
I know Op. 54 is generally well loved as an underplayed gem, but I can only really consider it middle of the road. Op. 101, 78 and 27/1 are far more interesting in my eyes as "underrated" Beethoven sonatas (if there can even be such a thing).
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline hmoll53

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #12 on: July 06, 2022, 11:16:06 AM
Quote from: bwl_13 on July 05, 2022, 03:10:09 AM
I know Op. 54 is generally well loved as an underplayed gem, but I can only really consider it middle of the road. Op. 101, 78 and 27/1 are far more interesting in my eyes as "underrated" Beethoven sonatas (if there can even be such a thing).

Op.90 as well is an underrated choice, it's actually quite easy but there are some passages that are pure  >:(
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Some Current Repertoire:
Scriabin: Sonatas 2,4 and 5
Chopin: Ballade 1,4, Scherzo 1
Rachmaninoff: Concerto 3
Ravel: Gaspard de la Nuit
Barber: Sonata
Beethoven: Appassionata

Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #13 on: July 06, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
Quote from: hmoll53 on July 06, 2022, 11:16:06 AM
Op.90 as well is an underrated choice, it's actually quite easy but there are some passages that are pure  >:(
Tell me about it. Most of it is really manageable and especially the tenths as well as some of the other awkward passages bump it up a bit.

It's one of my favourites. Such an interesting piece
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline lelle

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #14 on: July 07, 2022, 10:20:45 AM
Quote from: bwl_13 on July 05, 2022, 03:10:09 AM
I know Op. 54 is generally well loved as an underplayed gem, but I can only really consider it middle of the road. Op. 101, 78 and 27/1 are far more interesting in my eyes as "underrated" Beethoven sonatas (if there can even be such a thing).

I agree about 78 and 27/1 being very interesting and underrated. Have always had trouble connecting with Op. 101 however. But I think Op. 54 is far from middle of the road. It might not connect with you, but you'll at least have to agree that it's an unusual and original piece for its time? :D
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Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #15 on: July 10, 2022, 04:45:39 PM
Quote from: lelle on July 07, 2022, 10:20:45 AM
I agree about 78 and 27/1 being very interesting and underrated. Have always had trouble connecting with Op. 101 however. But I think Op. 54 is far from middle of the road. It might not connect with you, but you'll at least have to agree that it's an unusual and original piece for its time? :D
I'd never claim that it's middle of the road as a universal. I more mean the it doesn't connect with me. There are definitely many interesting moments in it, such as the 2 movement structure, the odd subject of the first movement, the monothematic second movement. It's still Beethoven after all, it's pretty easy for me to find things to appreciate.

However, I find that the musical material doesn't connect with me as much as many of the other Beethoven sonatas, I just don't enjoy listening to it as much as most of them.
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline i_will_die_playing_schumann

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #16 on: July 14, 2022, 09:42:08 AM
Quote from: hmoll53 on June 27, 2022, 10:02:05 PM
[...] (Schubert's late Sonatas are quite long and tedious, which Schumann said "it goes no where", I got that quote from a book but I forgot the name). [...]

Whatever Schumann says; he's right -- even about Schubert or Liszt  :).

I wonder, looking at these discussions of Schubert being tedious (and those 900s kinda are, there's no escape), about my favorite sonata of all classical and early romantic times D 784 in a of Op. p.h. 143? It's anything but tedious, isn't it? And I doubt it's much performed -- again, perhaps similar case as Beethoven's 22nd (I do like that one better than most others by him), 784 gets pushed out by the 900s. In any case, the best sonata ever -- not very classical though, but those listening to an audition usually take anything by Schubert so it might be an escape route if you don't like Haydn's scales back and forth for 20 minutes (an exaggeration, Haydn's fine).
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Offline symphonicdance

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #17 on: July 15, 2022, 02:08:05 AM
Google "ABRSM Piano Diploma Syllabus". Those classical sonatas listed on DipRSM level (and maybe the easier ones on LRSM too) will likely be fine choices for you.
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Offline bwl_13

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #18 on: July 15, 2022, 04:16:17 AM
RCM syllabus is good too, although the diploma level pieces cover a wide range of difficulty
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Second Year Undergrad:
Bach BWV 914
Beethoven Op. 58
Reger Op. 24 No. 5
Rachmaninoff Op. 39 No. 3 & No. 5

Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #19 on: July 18, 2022, 07:42:46 AM
Quote from: i_will_die_playing_schumann on July 14, 2022, 09:42:08 AM
Whatever Schumann says; he's right -- even about Schubert or Liszt  :).
When it comes to being tedious, he knows more than any composer in history.
As to the original question, Woelfl Op. 33 would be my suggestion.

Thal
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Offline lelle

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Re: Help to chose classical sonata
Reply #20 on: July 25, 2022, 11:01:12 AM
Quote from: thalbergmad on July 18, 2022, 07:42:46 AM
When it comes to being tedious, he knows more than any composer in history.
As to the original question, Woelfl Op. 33 would be my suggestion.

Thal

Oh snap! There are a number of Schumann compositions I like (Kinderszenen for example), but I feel that sometimes he does drag on, not doing anything terribly interesting.
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