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Topic: Pieces without Teacher (Read 2465 times)

rtheunissen

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 48

Dear people,

For the coming 6 weeks or so my teacher is on vacation and he allowed me to learn some pieces on my own for fun during this time. For the last 10 months, I've had lessons with him and we are working on auditioning next year. Some of the pieces that we have worked on are Bach's 8th invention (quite some time ago), Chopin's Nocturne Op. 55 No. 1 and now Beethoven's Sonata No. 5 Mvt. 1. Hopefully this gives an idea of my skill level when I'm working with a teacher. Now I'd like to ask you which of the following pieces you think I could most easily tackle on my own and if possible you could rank them. I've purposefully chosen the lesser difficult works on my wishlist so hopefully, there aren't any nightmarishly difficult ones on the list.

Bach - Invention No. 2
Bach - Invention No. 4
Bach - Invention No. 13
Bach - Invention No. 14
Bach - Sinfonia No. 5
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 2
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 8
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 2
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 8
Mozart - Fantasia in D Minor
Beethoven - Sonata No. 5, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 8, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 29, Mvt. 3
Alkan - Prelude No. 8
Chopin - Prelude No. 2
Chopin - Prelude No. 6
Chopin - Prelude No. 9
Chopin - Prelude No. 15
Chopin - Prelude No. 20
Chopin - Nocturne Op. 72 No. 1
Chopin - Etude Op. 25 No. 7
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 1
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 7
Rachmaninoff - Prelude Op. 32 No. 10
Debussy - Claire de Lune
Debussy - La Cathédral Engloutie
Scriabin - Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Shostakovich - Piano Concerto No. 2, Mvt. 2

Thank you in advance.

PS. Keep in mind that I'm learning these for fun and that they don't need to be perfect because I can always work on them with my teacher after.

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brogers70

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 1750

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #1 on: July 29, 2022, 09:32:04 PM

Quote from: rtheunissen on July 29, 2022, 07:55:45 PM

Dear people,

For the coming 6 weeks or so my teacher is on vacation and he allowed me to learn some pieces on my own for fun during this time. For the last 10 months, I've had lessons with him and we are working on auditioning next year. Some of the pieces that we have worked on are Bach's 8th invention (quite some time ago), Chopin's Nocturne Op. 55 No. 1 and now Beethoven's Sonata No. 5 Mvt. 1. Hopefully this gives an idea of my skill level when I'm working with a teacher. Now I'd like to ask you which of the following pieces you think I could most easily tackle on my own and if possible you could rank them. I've purposefully chosen the lesser difficult works on my wishlist so hopefully, there aren't any nightmarishly difficult ones on the list.

Bach - Invention No. 2
Bach - Invention No. 4
Bach - Invention No. 13
Bach - Invention No. 14
Bach - Sinfonia No. 5
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 8
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 8
Mozart - Fantasia in D Minor
Beethoven - Sonata No. 5, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 8, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 29, Mvt. 3
Alkan - Prelude No. 8
Chopin - Prelude No. 2
Chopin - Prelude No. 6
Chopin - Prelude No. 9
Chopin - Prelude No. 15
Chopin - Prelude No. 20
Chopin - Nocturne Op. 72 No. 1
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 1
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 7
Rachmaninoff - Prelude Op. 32 No. 10
Debussy - Claire de Lune
Debussy - La Cathédral Engloutie
Scriabin - Etude Op. 2 No. 1

Thank you in advance.

PS. Keep in mind that I'm learning these for fun and that they don't need to be perfect because I can always work on them with my teacher after.

I love the C# minor Prelude and Fugue from Book I. If I were choosing from your list, that's what I'd go with.

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rtheunissen

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 48

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #2 on: July 29, 2022, 10:31:04 PM

Do you think I am able to play both the prelude and the fugue, or do you reckon one or both of them are too difficult at the moment? Because I always have the feeling that some of the fugues aren't as difficult as some others and that a fugue is mostly a mind game but my teacher always tells me that they're quite difficult compared to harder sounding pieces.

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lelle

PS Gold Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 2479

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #3 on: July 29, 2022, 10:35:41 PM

Quote from: rtheunissen on July 29, 2022, 10:31:04 PM

Do you think I am able to play both the prelude and the fugue, or do you reckon one or both of them are too difficult at the moment? Because I always have the feeling that some of the fugues aren't as difficult as some others and that a fugue is mostly a mind game but my teacher always tells me that they're quite difficult compared to harder sounding pieces.

I love that C# minor prelude & fugue from book 1. I remember playing them back when I was at an intermediate level. Fugues are tricky if you want to play them super well, but that one is relatively approachable if you just wanna play it and have fun, despite the 5 voices. There are some spots you'll need to untangle very slowly for a while though. Why not try it out and see if it's manageable? You can always drop it and return to it later if it's too much to chew.

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rtheunissen

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 48

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #4 on: July 29, 2022, 10:56:07 PM

This makes me feel a bit more comfortable to at least give it a try and I'd probably start with the prelude first so if that's manageable then I can try the fugue. Do any of you have an opinion on (one of) the other pieces? Since I can finally learn multiple pieces at once because I don't have to hurry for an audition during the vacation and I can freely play what I want I would maybe like to learn a Baroque piece as well as one or more other pieces from different eras. A ranking would still be appreciated because if something is difficult or quite easy (which isn't a problem of course) I'd be able to judge myself what is my level. However, a ranking is a lot of effort so don't feel obligated to do so if you don't want to.

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stringoverstrung

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 293

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #5 on: July 31, 2022, 05:23:47 PM

Hello,

a ranking is a bit artificial and also personal as everybody has different challenges.
I suggest - for what it is worth - to start in the summer time with Chopin Prelude 9 and 20 ( 5 is much harder).
As your question for a Baroque piece you might want to try a Scarlatti sonata (555 to choose from). For example K27 in B minor or the profound K87 also in B minor are well known so you can listen in on how to play that.
Another good try for a Baroque piece summer hit is Tic Tac Choc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh8XnnmpOFE but this might still be difficult.
Together with your Bach you have a great mix with some shorter pieces that you can drop if you want.

regards,
Gert

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rtheunissen

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 48

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #6 on: July 31, 2022, 07:10:25 PM

Thank you for your reply,

Ranking is indeed quite personal, that's why I don't obligate anyone to do so. It just shows a good image of what technical level you may need. I've just memorized the 20th prelude by Chopin this afternoon so that's a good start. I think I will indeed try the 4th prelude (and maybe the fugue) by Bach in a bit but first I will probably try some of the technically easier ones on the list. So if someone has more recommendations, everything is welcome!

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nightwindsonata

PS Silver Member
Full Member
Posts: 157

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #7 on: August 17, 2022, 03:42:26 AM

Quote from: rtheunissen on July 29, 2022, 07:55:45 PM

Dear people,

For the coming 6 weeks or so my teacher is on vacation and he allowed me to learn some pieces on my own for fun during this time. For the last 10 months, I've had lessons with him and we are working on auditioning next year. Some of the pieces that we have worked on are Bach's 8th invention (quite some time ago), Chopin's Nocturne Op. 55 No. 1 and now Beethoven's Sonata No. 5 Mvt. 1. Hopefully this gives an idea of my skill level when I'm working with a teacher. Now I'd like to ask you which of the following pieces you think I could most easily tackle on my own and if possible you could rank them. I've purposefully chosen the lesser difficult works on my wishlist so hopefully, there aren't any nightmarishly difficult ones on the list.

Bach - Invention No. 2
Bach - Invention No. 4
Bach - Invention No. 13
Bach - Invention No. 14
Bach - Sinfonia No. 5
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 2
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Prelude No. 8
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 1
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 2
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 4
Bach - WTC Book 1, Fugue No. 8
Mozart - Fantasia in D Minor
Beethoven - Sonata No. 5, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 8, Mvt. 2
Beethoven - Sonata No. 29, Mvt. 3
Alkan - Prelude No. 8
Chopin - Prelude No. 2
Chopin - Prelude No. 6
Chopin - Prelude No. 9
Chopin - Prelude No. 15
Chopin - Prelude No. 20
Chopin - Nocturne Op. 72 No. 1
Chopin - Etude Op. 25 No. 7
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 1
Schumann - Kinderszenen No. 7
Rachmaninoff - Prelude Op. 32 No. 10
Debussy - Claire de Lune
Debussy - La Cathédral Engloutie
Scriabin - Etude Op. 2 No. 1
Shostakovich - Piano Concerto No. 2, Mvt. 2

Thank you in advance.

PS. Keep in mind that I'm learning these for fun and that they don't need to be perfect because I can always work on them with my teacher after.

Honestly, wlth the exception of the movement of the Hammerklavier and the Chopin Etude, most of these pieces are quite doable. Just pick one and stick with it! I really love that Scriabin Etude, and it will challenge you in ways you haven't been yet, without being horrendously difficult.

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rtheunissen

PS Silver Member
Jr. Member
Posts: 48

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #8 on: August 17, 2022, 09:49:33 AM

Thanks for the response! Last week I learned the 20th Chopin prelude and the first of Schumann's Kinderszenen which were far less difficult than what I had learned before (as expected). I am now slowly learning Debussy's "La Cathédral Engloutie" and Bach's 4th fugue which are definitely a step up from last week's pieces. The Scriabin is also one I really want to learn. However, my teacher scared me away from concert etudes which is quite a bummer but perhaps I can persuade him to learn the Scriabin for my audition (even though it's quite popular).

May I also ask why the third movement of Hammerklavier is considered to be so difficult? I know that this 29th sonata is far more difficult than anything on this list. However, the third movement looks to me like it's not very challenging (except for the insane length for one movement). The same for the Chopin etude, I know etudes aren't particularly easy but this one sounds more like a nocturne (which may be sacrilegious to say but compared to say Op. 25 No. 10...). What is the difficulty in this piece?

Thank you all for the help!

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stringoverstrung

PS Silver Member
Sr. Member
Posts: 293

Re: Pieces without Teacher

Reply #9 on: August 17, 2022, 10:59:02 PM

Well,

to play any Chopin Etude really well is really "hard" (meaning as a normally gifted or slightly above average gifted person you need to work on it). Either you can play the music with the "spirit" as "intended" by the composer or not.
Listen carefully to some recordings of great pianists with very good headphones and you will notice that for Etude op 25 nr. 7 there is a lot of subtlety in the 3 different voicings, 2 different melodies, plus the chords in the middle.
To get the "spirit" right of any Chopin etude is doable also on amateur level but certainly not "easy" .
Please note that the real meaning of the words between quotes are open for interpretation n this context and are relative to the "average" ("true") meaning of these terms.

PS for long time PS users: this being said I woefully admit that I will never reach the wuthering heights of the language knowledge, proficiency and fluency of A. Hinton in this life or the next one for that matter. Further more I am pretty sure that he will never have to resort to the usage of quotes not even for the most delicate shades of the true "meaning" of his words and lemmas.

Regards,
Gert

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