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Topic: Top 10 Chopin Etudes (Read 968 times)

liszt-and-the-galops

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Top 10 favorite and hardest Chopin Etudes?

IMO, and not counting the Trois Nouvelles Etudes...
Best:
10. Aeolian Harp (25/1)
9. Op. 10 no. 9
8. Ocean (25/12)
7. Octaves (25/10)
6. Double Thirds (25/6)
5. Sunshine (10/8)
1. I can't decide between Waterfall (10/1), Black Keys (10/5), The Knight/The Horseman (25/3), and Butterfly (25/10)

Hardest:
10. The Knight/The Horseman (25/3)
9. Toccata (10/7)
8. Octaves (25/10)
7. Sixths (25/8)
6. Waterfall (10/1)
5. Torrent (10/4)
4. People are going to hate me for this, but Sunshine (10/8)
3. Winter Wind (25/11)
2. Chromatic (10/2)
1. Double Thirds (25/6)

Thoughts?

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Amateur pianist, beginning composer, creator of the Musical Madness tournament (2024).
https://www.youtube.com/@Liszt-and-the-Galops
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busondelssohn

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #1 on: June 13, 2024, 06:04:50 AM

I really enjoy op 10/11. I find it a really underrated etude and it's really beautiful with its arpeggiated chords. I also enjoy op 25/1 really a lot right now, because I'm practicing it. Anyone agree with me about 10/11?

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jamienc

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #2 on: June 13, 2024, 08:51:33 PM

Can’t really rank them in top 10 this or that, but I would vote for 25/5 “wrong note” as the best and 10/2 as the most difficult. I’ve been playing 10/2 for about 20 years and still can’t get it just quite right.

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lelle

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #3 on: June 13, 2024, 11:08:22 PM

I love them all, hard to pick!

But hardest, assuming you go for the tempos I think they should be at:
Op 10 no 2 in a minor
Op 25 no 6 in G sharp minor
Op 10 no 7 in C major
Op 25 no 4 in a minor
Op 10 no 1 in C major
Op 25 no 8 in D flat major

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frodo4

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #4 on: June 14, 2024, 12:39:39 AM

I agree with Lelle – too difficult to choose my favorites. I also love them all. I have 8 different complete Chopin op 10 and op 25 etude CDs. Takes just under an hour to listen to all 24 etudes – about 56-59 minutes. Unbelievable great music!!

I think Op 10 no 2 and Op 25 no 6 will be on almost everyone’s list as the 2 hardest at full performance tempo. I was going to say that Op 25 no 6 was the hardest.

Here are the 8 CDs I own (not listed in any particular order):
Murray Perahia
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Andrei Gavrilov
John Browning
Istvan Szekely
Claudio Arrau
Abbey Simon
Maurizio Pollini

Szekely is the weakest of the lot but he has the fastest Op 10 no 1 at 1:47 and it is well played. Arrau is 1 second slower at 1:48.

The fastest op 10 no 4 of the bunch is Browning at 1:47. The slowest op 10 no 4 of the bunch is Arrau at 2:11. Szekely op 10 no 4 is almost the slowest at 2:07. Average is around 2:00 flat.

Fastest op 25 no 6 of the bunch is Browning at 1:40.
As side note, Browning plays Scarlatti K. 427 in G major: Presto quanto sia possible in 1:55. He's fast and good. Unbelievable Chopin performance!

Sorry for the lengthy post!

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liszt-and-the-galops

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #5 on: June 14, 2024, 03:28:41 AM

Quote from: lelle on June 13, 2024, 11:08:22 PM

I love them all, hard to pick!

But hardest, assuming you go for the tempos I think they should be at:
Op 10 no 6
Op 25 no 4
Op 25 no 9

It's always baffled me why people think 25/4 is hard. It just seems like some minor LH leaps and the usual musical difficulty.
Butterfly is on the easier side, but still the hardest of those three IMO.
10/6?!?! I thought that was agreed almost universally to be the easiest? (It's certainly the only one I can somewhat handle.)
The other ones you said made sense, but no Winter Wind?

Fair point to both lelle and frodo4 that choosing favorites is very difficult with the ChopEts. Hence my 4-way tie for the #1 spot on my favorites list.

Quote from: Busondelssohn on June 13, 2024, 06:04:50 AM

I really enjoy op 10/11. I find it a really underrated etude and it's really beautiful with its arpeggiated chords... Anyone agree with me[?]

I do enjoy listening to 10/11, but I get tired of it strangely quickly. I don't know why.

Quote from: frodo4 on June 14, 2024, 12:39:39 AM

I have 8 different complete Chopin op 10 and op 25 etude CDs.

...Sorry for the lengthy post!

I mostly just listen to the free versions uploaded on Youtube by, for example, Chopin Institute.
And you're fine for the long post!

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Amateur pianist, beginning composer, creator of the Musical Madness tournament (2024).
https://www.youtube.com/@Liszt-and-the-Galops
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lelle

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #6 on: June 14, 2024, 08:57:02 AM

Quote from: liszt-and-the-galops on June 14, 2024, 03:28:41 AM

It's always baffled me why people think 25/4 is hard. It just seems like some minor LH leaps and the usual musical difficulty.
Butterfly is on the easier side, but still the hardest of those three IMO.
10/6?!?! I thought that was agreed almost universally to be the easiest? (It's certainly the only one I can somewhat handle.)
The other ones you said made sense, but no Winter Wind?

Oops, I meant Op 10 no 7, of course! Looks like I also wrote Op 25 no 9 instead of Op 25 no 8. Clearly you shouldn't post when you are 5 minutes from going to bed. Edited!

Winter Wind is hard, sure, but I have had more trouble with other etudes. Maybe the technique in it just comes easier to me. The majority of both sets are quite hard but do not stand out as particularly extra hard, I think Winter Wind belongs among those (alongside for example op 10 no 4, 5, 8, 10, 12, and op 25 no 5, 9, 10, 12)

I think 25 no 4 is hard if you go for performance tempo in terms of
1) Accuracy on all the jumps. Accuracy is not the most important thing in the world for me but in this Etude it's kind of the point.
2) Keeping up the relaxation through the unrelenting series of leaps so you don't feel any tension or fatigue. If you got very good technique this isn't a problem but if there are any issues you can definitely struggle with this.

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jamienc

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #7 on: June 14, 2024, 09:00:47 AM

Quote from: frodo4 on June 14, 2024, 12:39:39 AM

Here are the 8 CDs I own (not listed in any particular order):
Murray Perahia
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Andrei Gavrilov
John Browning
Istvan Szekely
Claudio Arrau
Abbey Simon
Maurizio Pollini
Sorry for the lengthy post!

Those are definitely some great recordings of the set, but recently I discovered a recording by Frederic Chiu
That is just out of this world. Not sure I’ve heard a full performance of these pieces that is so accurate to the score with regards to articulation and dynamics while keeping the musical interpretation fresh and fluid.

Of course, we live at a time where piano playing has reached such a crazy level of hyper-accuracy and technical skill that it doesn’t surprise me at all that they can be played in such a manner.

Another recording I love is Rebecca Penneys’ “home” recording of Op. 25 that just came out recently from her collaboration with ToneBase. Definitely worth checking out.

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gasplamey

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Re: Top 10 Chopin Etudes

Reply #8 on: June 14, 2024, 11:48:52 PM

Quote from: frodo4 on June 14, 2024, 12:39:39 AM

Murray Perahia
Vladimir Ashkenazy
Andrei Gavrilov
John Browning
Istvan Szekely
Claudio Arrau
Abbey Simon
Maurizio Pollini

I only have Pollini's recordings. How are the others?

As for the question posed by the OP, I agree that it's very difficult to choose a favorite. 25/1 and 25/7 stand out to me, but many others are near them. My least favorite is easy to choose; the only one I dislike is 10/4. There's simply too much going on all at once, and few people play it with the musicality it so desperately needs.

As for the hardest, I believe most people have some variation on the following list:
1. 25/6 or 10/2
2. 25/6 or 10/2
3. 25/11 or 10/1
4. 25/11 or 10/1
5. 25/10, 25/8, or 10/4
6. 25/10, 25/8, or 10/4
7. 25/10, 25/8, or 10/4
8. 10/8 or 10/7
9. 10/8 or 10/7
10. 25/12, 25/4, 10/12, or 10/10

Personally I believe 10/2 is hardest with 25/6 in second and 25/11 being a distant third, with 10/1 being an even more distant fourth. Between 25/10, 25/8, and 10/4, I'd put 25/8 as the hardest and 25/10 as the easiest. Having gotten both 10/7 and 10/8 to tempo, I believe 10/8 is slightly harder. Among the last 4, I'd put either 10/10 or 25/12 as the hardest, with 10/12 being the easiest of them.

Quote from: liszt-and-the-galops on June 13, 2024, 12:36:49 AM

4. People are going to hate me for this, but Sunshine (10/8)

LatG, I do indeed hate you for placing 10/8 as harder than 25/10, 25/8, 10/4, and 10/1.

Quote from: jamienc on June 14, 2024, 09:00:47 AM

recently I discovered a recording by Frederic Chiu that is just out of this world. Not sure I’ve heard a full performance of these pieces that is so accurate to the score with regards to articulation and dynamics while keeping the musical interpretation fresh and fluid.

I gave it a listen. It is truly mesmerizing. He plays all of them wonderfully, with the exception of 10/8. (That is a matter of personal preference, however; I believe it sounds much better when played more slowly.) Even 10/4 sounds good, which is extremely rare.

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