Don't believe everything you hear...

[SDL]

having read the " how much do you practice" thread and becoming totally bored by the end I thought Id add that Ive read interviews with some very famous pianists and I think some of them are full of ****

Claudio Arrau said to Dean Elder in "Pianists at Play" he practiced 20 hours a day for a piece he was doing at short notice (forget which now)! - yeah right!

Hes the one that says its not important to have a big hand and long fingers as they cause problems, just wide gaps between the fingers - so you're thinking he has something similar to me then - I have a good span (easily ninth chords, and just a 10th on white keys - I get around the piano pretty well - chopin etudes etc).  And then he drops it - "I think I have the perfect span of an 11th!! - No there not big are they Claud    A friend of mine barely stretches an octave and she is nifty around the piano.

And I read the interview with Dame Jean-Marie-Darre.  I see alot of these "stars" saying you have to start at a young age - nonesense.  It just takes longer the older you get... (I started the piano at 15 (played electric organ before that for 6  - you know how different the technique and repetoire is!!) and was at very good Uni on a Music degree in 3 yrs majoring in Piano performance, and  then I completed Masters in Performance straight after. Its only these people who like to keep the profession on a pedestal like its unreachable for any one who wasnt privaleged enough to have their famous mothers/aunts/uncles teach them at 3 yrs. 

All you people who are starting out - practice and learn as much as you can if you want to play in public (might not be an international career but then again you might - things are changing look at the amateur competition's popularity now, and look how different you look on paper.  Im sick of seeing won this and that and started at 2.  I like to see success in the unthinkable conditions - thats real talent and dedication!!). But there are opportunities to play in public all the time if you make them happen.  Don't be put off by these old masters (not critising their mastery just the message they give out - snobbery and ignorance!).  All those that dont want to perform - practice because its enjoyable and you don't have to play if you dont want to but you can be as good if not better than the rushed finished product and bland performances I hear from some of these so called pros!!
 

[pianonut]

that was encouraging! here i am at 43.  i haven't won any competitions, just enjoy playing.  i would like, however to be a concert pianist in some form.  or, have a career.  let's put it that way.  i'd like small orchestras to know that i am interested in learning concertos so that the public can at least hear them (and hopefully enjoy).  sometimes just getting the music out is an end in itself...but don't quote me on that.  i never try to rush a practice/to perform - but would probably practice a year or year and half to prepare something well.  i've always known i could do it, and keep telling myself if it wasn't possible, other people wouldn't have already done it.

[SDL]

cool !!!

Concertos are my passion - Ive done one Mozart K414 but there are many others Id love to do - Prokofiev, Shostakovich 2, Liszt 2, Poulenc, Ravel, Rach 3, Rach Pag, Schumann, Beethoven 1,5, Tchaikovsky, Brahms 2, Rubinstein 4... you get my drift!  I gave up for 6 yrs or so to re-train in I.T and now Im picking it up seriously - and Im more hungry now than ever.  In total Ive played piano 10/11 years in total and Im entering amateur competitions this year and Ive a full recital in September.  Anything is possible.. you just have to believe! 

[pianonut]

if i told you how many years i'd been playing, you'd gag and wish you hadn't started this thread.  but, i am the kind of crazy persistent person that thinks they can have all their dreams.  my first one was to major in music.  so, by God's graces, i did it.  then i wanted to have a family.  so, by God's graces, i have a really great husband (who is a baritone, and also in IT) and three children (15-10-3).  now, i have it in my head that in my late 40s (am in my early right now) and 50's that i will play piano concertos around the US (without having won any major competitions).  tell me, this is possible!  it probably isn't.  it is probably the most unrealistic goal - but, i am determined to keep up appearances (and practice).  i want to start my own web site and keep putting repertoire up so people can hear and maybe even have me 'fill in' for small concerts.  my first piano concerto will be leroy andersons.  i still have to buy the music.

you know, talking about it helps me set my goal more firmly.  thanks for the thread.

[DarkWind]

having read the " how much do you practice" thread and becoming totally bored by the end I thought Id add that Ive read interviews with some very famous pianists and I think some of them are full of ****

Claudio Arrau said to Dean Elder in "Pianists at Play" he practiced 20 hours a day for a piece he was doing at short notice (forget which now)! - yeah right!

This is the guy who put each and every Beethoven Sonata under a magnifying glass to see that each note was exact, and he did not miss a single detail. Honestly, for normal people like us, this seems impossible. But pianists really don't have much esle to do, now do they? What do you think they are going to do the rest of the day, honestly? Go outside and have coffee with your friends? Go to the mall for a while? Catch a movie? Go to some fine dining? Honestly, it's their passion, and their job. Maybe 20 hours is a little over the top, but something close to that is definitely probable. Out of the thousands of pianists in the world, only a select few become famous. Why do you think that is?

Although, the hand span thing is a little bit far fetched. Then again, most pianists end up eccentric, or start out like that. But I definitely have to agree with you about the age thing. It really doesn't matter at what age you start at, unless your like 93, in which case, well, don't keep your hopes up. :p. But even at that age, there is still something possible...

[pianowelsh]

Hi i totally agree some pianists in interviews say some remarkable things that leave you slightly skeptical. Having said that my teacher once told me he went for a phase (not a long one) of only sleeping four hours and practicing the rest!! he suggested I give it a go! I graciously declined  (then changed) The sacry thinh is i totally believe he did!!! but I don't think that way of working suits everyone. This is the problem with celebrity interviews and indeed studying with top performers what they do works VERY well for them but because of who they are is applied as general advice and it really shouldn't be because they are really the exceptions to the rule. I have to say 10 hrs is more than enough for me i couldnt conceive of doing double that!!!

[LVB op.57]

Out of all the pianists, why do some become famous? I dunno, but I wouldn't put it on sheer talent.   
I bet a lot of us know pianists who aren't famous but we'd still prefer them over a lot of famous concert performers. It's all subjective. Maybe people who "made it" were just in the right place at the right time. Not that they didn't have talent, but talent alone doesn't lead to fame.
And practicing 20 hours a day? I don't care who says what about that, that is too much. You know who practiced 20 hours a day? Helfgott. Why don't you go talk to him and see how he's doing these days? 10, I can see that. But 20 is just unhealthy.

[janice]

that was encouraging! here i am at 43. 

You have a few years on me, but I'm glad to meet another "senior citizen" here at PF! LOL

[dinosaurtales]

that was encouraging! here i am at 43.  i haven't won any competitions, just enjoy playing.  i would like, however to be a concert pianist in some form.  or, have a career.  let's put it that way.  i'd like small orchestras to know that i am interested in learning concertos so that the public can at least hear them (and hopefully enjoy).  sometimes just getting the music out is an end in itself...but don't quote me on that.  i never try to rush a practice/to perform - but would probably practice a year or year and half to prepare something well.  i've always known i could do it, and keep telling myself if it wasn't possible, other people wouldn't have already done it.

Great to hear another enthusiastic voice!  i am 48, and have been seriously at it after a 20--year hiatus.  I have "fantasies" about putting together a "firends and family" recital, or like you, playing a concerto or solo iof some kind with one of the smaller local orchestras.  doesn't need to be the Chicago Symphony to be fun!  We have several smaller orchestras here that are contenders for such a thing.  I just need to get good enough that they woiuld want me!!!!

[steinwayguy]

Out of all the pianists, why do some become famous? I dunno, but I wouldn't put it on sheer talent.
I bet a lot of us know pianists who aren't famous but we'd still prefer them over a lot of famous concert performers. It's all subjective. Maybe people who "made it" were just in the right place at the right time. Not that they didn't have talent, but talent alone doesn't lead to fame.
And practicing 20 hours a day? I don't care who says what about that, that is too much. You know who practiced 20 hours a day? Helfgott. Why don't you go talk to him and see how he's doing these days? 10, I can see that. But 20 is just unhealthy.

20 hours a day is just ridiculous. I don't believe that for a second.

Anyway, I think that there are a great many pianists are all on the same level approaching perfection. The difference between them is just marketing and publicity. Kissin had it made (other than being a precocious young talent) by having his Chopin concerti concert with the Moscow Philharmonic when he was 12. Then again, Lang Lang's parents decided he was going to be a concert pianist before he was even born...

Also, Richter I think is the quintessential example of a late-starter. He didn't actually start taking lessons in his early 20's from Neuhaus. And voila, the greatest pianist of the 20th century...

[ted]

Pianonut:

I think you're a bit like me only in the direction of performance; I've always been on the creative side. The prospect of starving in a garret and doing without things like a wife and family did not appeal. Like you I have probably had more happiness than I deserve. My main musical direction is improvisation, which fitted in much more easily with family activities than either composition or performance.

Our son, twenty-two, is now grown and living abroad. I am still working in my job as an IT manager for a large company but the prospect of phased retirement looks progressively more inviting. I have creative goals in music which are now very definite. ( I am too introverted to have your performance goals.) It has taken me until fifty-seven to really find my musical voice and now I'm going to go for it, retirement or not.

So don't lose your dream, I don't consider it in the least unrealistic; I'm certainly not going to lose mine. If I ever have doubts, all I do is look around at all these stagnating men of my age, preoccupied with money, cars, the races and booze, with brains and bodies standing still until the inevitable trip to the cemetery.

No thanks. As Rubinstein said, "I like to live !"

[SDL]

Anyway, I think that there are a great many pianists are all on the same level approaching perfection. The difference between them is just marketing and publicity.

This is so true!!!  And how many pianists do you know that are IT competant, business competent?? exactly!!  If you have these skills you are your own marketing vehicle ... this + talent = luck + success   

In this thread you have been inspiring to each other and I admire your attitude.  I used to teach people from age 6 to 76!! and I encouraged the old lady because she enjoyed it.  I don't teach now - I moved into more money earning careers (to actually fund my life-time passion and full time hobby  ) The 6/7 year break has done me a world of good because :

Im not bitter and frustrated anymore (when I was a full time music student you get roped into the cut throat competition which made me negative and stopped believing)

Ive more life experience (even at 33) and I feel Ive opened up within music - it moves me more for some reason, and I have more discipline!

And I love it as I loved it when I was starting at 15 and my dream was to be a concert pianist - actually perform concertos (Ive performed 1 with an orchestra - a start!)

I have built a life - partner,home owner finally, 2 cats, 1 parrot, 2 cocketiels in an aviary - so Im now ready for both the disappointments and the successes because there's no pressure on me even though Ive set my own goals.  Thats the difference we all share I think!

Another point - If you dont set your targets & goals dreams dont become reality theyre just dreams. 

Dont let other egotistical people get you down (and there is no shortage of it in music!!) - the battle will get you down and ultimately your music making too!

Pianonut - you seem an amazing person!


Theres a saying somewhere - "its funny the harder I work the luckier I become"

Sorry if I sounded like a teacher 

PS ... what pieces are you working on now?

[mound]

c'mon! I've practiced well over 30,000 hours in my 28 years of life

[SDL]

c'mon! I've practiced well over 30,000 hours in my 28 years of life

Not sure what your point is.  You have to base your success on "how" you try to achieve your goals.  And just because you may have practiced that long doesnt mean I dont need to or anyone else has practice that long or less to be successful.  Im not saying you dont need talent - you do... some have more than others.  But there are other aspects as well, and they are different in everyone's case.

[mound]

I was just joking 

I meant to say 300,000 hours..

[pianonut]

it's good to have a balance between encouragement and discouragement.  lately, i have been slightly discouraged (lack of practice time), but then when i go on the forum and read that others like to put pressure on themselves too, even though they aren't 'there' yet - and, just like to see how far they can go - then i say - ok. someone might think i don't belong in college with all those 18-21 year olds but i have company on the forum.  somewhere, in another state, is another person who is doing exactly what i am (what AM i doing?)  dividing time between family, pets (i love birds, too, but have a cat), and various assundry interests (bicycling, gardening) that i try not to let interfere with practice (first).

i have realized from so many posts that there is the idea of the dream and the reality of the dream.  my teacher has made that evident in his sacrifices.  most concert pianists really sacrifice a lot to get where they are.  i am trying to scrimp on various other things (as mentioned - new car, shopping at the mall, eating out so much) and put it into lessons, classes, and time involved studying.  it will pay off, i think, later when i need to show proficiency for a better paying position (wherever and whatever i do).  lately, i have also noticed not only performance jobs but music therapy jobs (where you go and play for older people and engage them in conversation about music and get THEIR minds going and enjoying).

everyone on this forum seems amazing to me!  everyone has their goal and is going at it in some particular approach - and they are all unique and suited to that person.  one size doesn't fit all - but sacrifices are necessary to get to a goal within a certain time frame.  mine is running out, i think, so i say to myself 'hurry up.'