\"\"
Piano Forum logo

I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata (Read 5141 times)

Offline yamaha

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
« on: March 30, 2005, 09:49:16 AM »
Hi all  :)

Well, I failed my DipABRSM exam again  :-[ :-[

I have decided to change the Beethoven sonata I played (Pathetique) as I am quite tired of it now and I really dont think I can inject any more life into it  :-\

Any suggestions which Beethoven sonatas might be suitable.  The ones I REALLY like are too difficult for me at this stage, namely the Appassionata and the Waldstein (no suprises there  :D )  I havent tried them but judging by the posts on this forum, and the fact that they are both on the FRSM syllabus, I make an educated guess! ;D

I may also change some of my other pieces but I havent decided yet.

My programme was...........

Bach Prelude and Fugue No 14 in F# min  (Bk1)  I like this one  :)
Beethoven Pathetique sonata         
Schubert Impromptu No.3 in Gb D899                  May change this  :-\
Bartok Dance in Bulgarian Rhythm No.2 from Mikrokosmos         Not really my cup of tea  ::)

I would love some suggestions  :)

Thanks


Sheet music to download and print: Sonatas by Beethoven



Offline chopinisque

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 227
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #1 on: March 30, 2005, 01:10:35 PM »
A Chopin etude perhaps? 
Mad about Chopin.

Offline lagin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 847
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #2 on: March 31, 2005, 05:14:23 AM »
what's a "dip" ABRSM exam?  Is that some kind or grade or something?  The Pathetique sonata coinsides with gr. 10 in Canada.
Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven.

Offline steinwayguy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #3 on: March 31, 2005, 05:56:32 AM »
Beethoven Op. 28.

Offline rohansahai

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 412
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #4 on: March 31, 2005, 07:07:30 AM »
I definitely think you should change the Beethoven...its way too common and gives the examiner lots of oppurtunities to find blemishes and deduct marks. Also considering that you can choose from outside the syllabus a piece of max. 7 minutes duration in DipABRSM, the Appasionata and Waldstein gets out of question even if you could possibly learn them. I would advise you to choose a little different program:
1. Do you have to choose a prelude and fugue by Bach everytime?? Why not one of the toccatas mentioned in the syllabus, I really like the E minor and D major ones .....the examiner will definitely appreciate the choice since prelude and fugues are played by virtually all canditates.
2. If you are bent on playing a Beethoven Sonata only, i would suggest op. 10-1 maybe. A better idea would be to play the 32 variations in c minor, and an even better one would be to leave Beethoven and go for maybe the Haydn, one of the Mozart or Schubert sonatas.
3. Definitely change the Schubert impromptu, its wayy too commonly played! there is a beautiful chopin nocturne (in e major i think) which you can bank upon, one of the Rach preludes maybe (op. 23-7 is a good and challenging one, but don't choose the op.32-5 and 32-12.....again very common). There is also a Faure Nocturne i think, a very beautiful piece.
4. I haven't heard the Bartok, but I think it would be a good choice to retain it as it would offer something different.
Also, did you fail the performance part only or the sight reading and viva and the written bit?
Just keep in mind that ultimately it is not the choice of pieces which matter but how you play them. The problem with picking the common pieces are that you offer a standard comparison with the hundreds of great pianists who have recorded the piece and give the examiner ample oppurtunity to fail you (because it IS tough to match the greats, isn't it? !!). Best of luck !!
Waste of time -- do not read signatures.

Offline yamaha

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #5 on: March 31, 2005, 01:30:39 PM »
what's a "dip" ABRSM exam? Is that some kind or grade or something? The Pathetique sonata coinsides with gr. 10 in Canada.
   

It is a post grade 8 qualification offered by the ABRSM.

rohansahai

Thank you very much for you detailed reply  :)

Regarding the Appassionata and Waldstein, I am considering changing boards to Trinity (ATCL) as they offer a total own choice option.  However, I think these wonderful works will be far beyond me for a long time so maybe not  ;D

I am not stuck on Beethoven, I do very much like the Mozart in Bb K570, is this overplayed?  I am not very familiar with which Mozart sonatas are the most popular so am not sure if this is a good choice.

I agree totally with you that I should look at less common pieces, the examiners probably groan when they see the programme list of the same old pieces again and again  ;D

I have searched through all my music and don't have the Bach toccatas  :(  I looked on Sheet Music Archive as well but they aren't listed.  I will dig through my CDs and see if I have them.

There is no Faure nocturne on the syllabus, there are two barcarolles, Op26 No1 and Op70 No6.  There is also an impromptu, Op31 No2.  Did you mean either of these?

The Bartok.......... >:(  the new syllabus states TWO pieces from Mikrokosmos where before you only had to play one.  I really dont think I fancy adding another one, I'll see  :-\

I passed the viva and the written bit but failed the performance and sight reading  :-[ :-[  I have bought Richmans book after reading about it on this forum and started working through it on Sat, lets hope it does some good!  ;D

Thanks again

Offline rshillen

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 18
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #6 on: March 31, 2005, 04:26:26 PM »
I definitely think you should change the Beethoven...its way too common and gives the examiner lots of oppurtunities to find blemishes and deduct marks. Also considering that you can choose from outside the syllabus a piece of max. 7 minutes duration in DipABRSM, the Appasionata and Waldstein gets out of question even if you could possibly learn them. I would advise you to choose a little different program:
1. Do you have to choose a prelude and fugue by Bach everytime?? Why not one of the toccatas mentioned in the syllabus, I really like the E minor and D major ones .....the examiner will definitely appreciate the choice since prelude and fugues are played by virtually all canditates.
2. If you are bent on playing a Beethoven Sonata only, i would suggest op. 10-1 maybe. A better idea would be to play the 32 variations in c minor, and an even better one would be to leave Beethoven and go for maybe the Haydn, one of the Mozart or Schubert sonatas.
3. Definitely change the Schubert impromptu, its wayy too commonly played! there is a beautiful chopin nocturne (in e major i think) which you can bank upon, one of the Rach preludes maybe (op. 23-7 is a good and challenging one, but don't choose the op.32-5 and 32-12.....again very common). There is also a Faure Nocturne i think, a very beautiful piece.
4. I haven't heard the Bartok, but I think it would be a good choice to retain it as it would offer something different.
Also, did you fail the performance part only or the sight reading and viva and the written bit?
Just keep in mind that ultimately it is not the choice of pieces which matter but how you play them. The problem with picking the common pieces are that you offer a standard comparison with the hundreds of great pianists who have recorded the piece and give the examiner ample oppurtunity to fail you (because it IS tough to match the greats, isn't it? !!). Best of luck !!
This is all very sound advice from Rohansahai. Most of us are always keen to play the justly famous and beautiful pieces but remember this is an exam and not a festival or concert. When I did my Diploma some years ago I was all for doing some Chopin and Debussy. My Teacher immediately advised me against it since the you may play it well but not according to the musical tastes of the examiner who often have very set ideas about how they like Chopin etc played. She strongly advised me to play less common pieces and unusual repertoire since the examiners will find this refreshing, interesting and won't have preconceived ideas of how it should sound.
Best of luck and don't give up
Bob

Offline shasta

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 493
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #7 on: March 31, 2005, 04:59:49 PM »
Hi Yamaha.  I'm sorry you had a rough time.  Your program just seems kind of blah to me.  Your program doesn't catch my eye and make me think "Oh wow, I have to make sure I go hear those played!"   :-\

I pulled up the repertoire list (I'm not familiar with abrsm).  There are some great pieces for you to learn! 


If it were up to me:

  1.  Bach P&F (since you like it), or Scarlatti if you want something fresh.

  2.  Would ditch "sonata" completely (be it Beeth, Mozart, Haydn...) and do either a "variation" (Beeth, Mozart, or Haydn) if you stick with Bach, or the Mendelssohn P&F if you go with Scarlatti.

  3.  either a Schumann or a Rach, but lots of great options. Ditch the blech Schubert.

  4.  Since you're not crazy about the Bartok, drop it.  I would replace it with either  Copeland or Gershwin.  End with some fun!!! 

I'm not familiar with the Sculthorpe, McCabe, Makholm, Janacek, Hindemith, Burrell, Blake, or Berkeley pieces.   <-- perhaps you might consider one of these just to mix things up a bit...  good luck!
"self is self"   - i_m_robot

Offline vera

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 42
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #8 on: April 01, 2005, 08:14:13 AM »
Having taught some for this exam,I found out , what some of the most popular pieces are.
Blake: Toccatina, fast and exciting, not too hard.Chaconne:ok
Debussy:La plus que lente.Elegant waltz, bit tricky to read perhaps, but not difficult.
 Gershwin, only the 2nd Prelude is easy, the other two challenging, especially for small hands., but very exciting stuff.
Brahms: Intermezzo in A, op.118 no 3
Chopin Nocturne in E, op.62/2
Faure:Impromptu in F min, very fast and exciting, challenging.
Ravel:Sonatina.Technically challenging, interlocking hands. But great music.
Copland: Scherzo. Crazy piece, very descriptive. Very popular.
 If you absolutely want Beethoven, try Sonata op.10 no2, but you need a reasonably sized hand for 1st mov.
Otherwise I suggest Haydn Variations in F min. or
Mozart Variations: Unser dummer Pobel Meint.
Not many play those last two, I think.

By the way, this is not an easy exam to pass, especially watch out for the quick learning test.
Good luck.

Offline yamaha

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #9 on: April 01, 2005, 01:58:04 PM »


By the way, this is not an easy exam to pass, especially watch out for the quick learning test.
Good luck.

I know, I have failed it twice now  :-[ :-[  I used the same pieces both times so I'm ready for something new.


Thanks so much everyone for your replies, they have given me plenty to think about  :D

Offline steinwayguy

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 991
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #10 on: April 02, 2005, 05:39:55 AM »
You might as well just learn das Hammerklavier.

Offline yamaha

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #11 on: April 03, 2005, 01:34:07 PM »
You might as well just learn das Hammerklavier.

I already have..............  in my wildest dreams!!  ;D ;D

Offline Dazzer

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1021
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #12 on: April 03, 2005, 02:58:45 PM »
You can't go to Arsm without dipABRSM? or are they the same?

Forgive my ignorance, but i did my diplomas from abrsm's sworn enemy, AMEB. causing me lots of pains now, cuz i can't do my fellowship without going back to australia, or cussing and swearing at the damn abrsm.

i remembered doing some haydn sonata for the associate exam or something... after that i chose my own pieces cuz i was so sick of the pieces my teacher chose... lol sorry can't help.

Offline Jacey1973

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 598
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #13 on: April 03, 2005, 05:39:16 PM »
what's a "dip" ABRSM exam?  Is that some kind or grade or something?  The Pathetique sonata coinsides with gr. 10 in Canada.

Wow you have a grade 10 in Canada? What kind of system do you have there? (I'm from England but I study at Uni in Wales).
"Mozart makes you believe in God - it cannot be by chance that such a phenomenon arrives into this world and then passes after 36 yrs, leaving behind such an unbounded no. of unparalled masterpieces"

Offline lagin

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 847
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #14 on: April 03, 2005, 08:19:28 PM »
Hi Jenni,
Yes, we have introductary through grade 10 and then there's also a performer's diploma (or the equivalent of grade 11).  Let's see...I'm in grade nine and one of my pieces is Bach's prelude and fugue in c minor (no.2 I think).  A grade ten piece would be Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata--two movements so you can't just pick the slow one.  And grade 11 has pieces like the entire Moonlight Sonata.  Each grade has theory (the higher ones that is), and ear tests, and sightreading, and technique.  For example, in grade 10 you have to be able to play all the scales at 120 on the metronome, but in 16th notes.  That would be...480 notes a minute minimum speed.  Learning the pieces doesn't sound too bad, but they can fail you if your technique isn't up to par which is revealed in the pieces.  To pass grade 11, you need to put on a 1 hour performance from memory.  My teacher did this and didn't have a memory lapse, but failed the first time anyway because they thought she wasn't techically advanced enough yet!  Yikes!  Speaking of which, my technique is calling.  Gotta go.
Christians aren't perfect; just forgiven.

Offline yamaha

  • PS Silver Member
  • Jr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 75
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #15 on: April 04, 2005, 09:42:50 AM »
You can't go to Arsm without dipABRSM? or are they the same?



The DipABRSM has replaced the ARSM, the next step is LRSM.

Offline mkdeut

  • PS Silver Member
  • Newbie
  • ***
  • Posts: 2
Re: I failed DipABRSM, looking for new Beethoven sonata
«Reply #16 on: April 08, 2005, 11:52:42 PM »
Hi Jenni,
Yes, we have introductary through grade 10 and then there's also a performer's diploma (or the equivalent of grade 11).  Let's see...I'm in grade nine and one of my pieces is Bach's prelude and fugue in c minor (no.2 I think).  A grade ten piece would be Beethoven's Pathetique Sonata--two movements so you can't just pick the slow one.  And grade 11 has pieces like the entire Moonlight Sonata.  Each grade has theory (the higher ones that is), and ear tests, and sightreading, and technique.  For example, in grade 10 you have to be able to play all the scales at 120 on the metronome, but in 16th notes.  That would be...480 notes a minute minimum speed.  Learning the pieces doesn't sound too bad, but they can fail you if your technique isn't up to par which is revealed in the pieces.  To pass grade 11, you need to put on a 1 hour performance from memory.  My teacher did this and didn't have a memory lapse, but failed the first time anyway because they thought she wasn't techically advanced enough yet!  Yikes!  Speaking of which, my technique is calling.  Gotta go.

Isn't what you said to be grade 11 really just ARCT? This grading system is through The Royal Toronto Conservatory of Music (RTCM), which is the more common institution in Canada.