Mozart sonatas vs. Beethoven sonatas (musicality and technique)

[musicsdarkangel]

A.  What do you like more musically?

B.  What do you think is harder technically




I used to think that pretty much all Mozart was easier than all Beethoven.


MAN was I wrong.


Mozart sonatas can probably be easier than some Beethoven sonatas, but I am mastering K 284, and I just find it ridiculously difficult.

I am having a harder time with it than I did with my first Liszt piece (La Campanella). 

Luckily, I almost have it perfected, but am I wrong in saying that the theme and variations (3rd movement) is intensely virtuostic?

According to my teacher, it's the hardest sonata.  In this booklet I read (from a recording of Alicia De La Roccha), it says that 284 gives the pianist the biggest challenge.  It's insane how much jumping around you have to do in the left hand, and the tremelos all over the place.

So how do the rest of these sonatas compare in difficulty?  I've really gained respect for Mozart.

[Kassaa]

310 is the hardest. (and the most beautiful one IMO.)

[BoliverAllmon]

I find Mozart to be underrated by alot of people. His music can be very difficult and is full of emotion. If I had to choose between Beethoven or Mozart I would probably lean towards Mozart

[jeremyjchilds]

FOr earlier Beethoven sonatas, I guess I like mozart, and Haydn (Probably more haydn) just as much.

But boy oh boy, do I ever love Beethoven's later works

I love romantic-leaning music that still has classic sensibilty

(I guess you could infer that I also enjoy Schubert, Mendelssohn, and Brahms)

[BoliverAllmon]

I am glad to see someone else like Haydn. I find his music great.

[pet]

I would say Mozart is harder than Beethoven because it's hard to play such musical lines that are mostly scalar.  Plus, in Mozart you can't use too much pedal if any at all, and you have to be careful to play it CLEAN.  People will probably be quick to criticize you more on Mozart than Beethoven.  I just finished learning K310, and even though it LOOKS easy, it really isn't.

[musicsdarkangel]

Oh I know.

310 is up there with 284.


My teacher has done both, and says those are two of the hardest.

[musicsdarkangel]

310 is the hardest. (and the most beautiful one IMO.)

I agree with most beautiful, but not hardest.



My teacher performed a concert this year, including some Chopin, Liszt (dante sonata), and he was choosing between either K 310 or K 284.

He picked K 310 because he claimed it was much easier.


Have you seen the leaps in the theme and variations?  The fingerwork?  Trills? Thirds?  Octaves? Tremelos?

Anyway, of course he could have played either if he wanted, but he chose to be lazy.


He's the best Mozart interpreter I've ever heard, and K 310 was amazing.

[steinwayguy]

Ummmm...according to any standardized "grading" system, either K.533 (F major) or K.576 (D major) is the hardest.

And yes, Mozart sonatas are inferior to Beethoven sonatas (I hate to say that) because
A. Mozart's piano sonatas are definitely not his best works
B. There ain't nothing greater than Beethoven piano sonatas

And sorry, you really shouldn't compare the difficulties of these two sets because the difficulties are so different.

However, Schubert is harder than Mozart and Beethoven. And I like Haydn sonatas more than Mozart sonatas, I think.

My favoritism tends to lean towards-
Beethoven > Schubert > Haydn > Mozart

[Waldszenen]

For me, overall I prefer Mozart's Sonatas because I enjoy them more as a whole. In saying that, Beethoven's 32 Sonatas only have about a handful that I truly enjoy; the others are more or less mediocre, whereas I enjoy nearly ALL of Mozart's.


Both of them are masterful composers, though, and I must say Haydn was also a fine producer of sonatas.

[steinwayguy]

For me, overall I prefer Mozart's Sonatas because I enjoy them more as a whole. In saying that, Beethoven's 32 Sonatas only have about a handful that I truly enjoy; the others are more or less mediocre, whereas I enjoy nearly ALL of Mozart's.


Both of them are masterful composers, though, and I must say Haydn was also a fine producer of sonatas.

 

 

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[BoliverAllmon]

correction pathetique

[apion]

Beethoven's Sonata's are musically and technically superior ......... IMO

[Waldszenen]

correction pathetique

 

[TheHammer]

However, Schubert is harder than Mozart and Beethoven. And I like Haydn sonatas more than Mozart sonatas, I think.

Indeed? How do the Schubert sonatas compare in terms of technical difficulty to let us say: op. 90, op.57, op.101 or op.106 (where would you place Schubert in general, and does any sonata come in the near of Hammerklavier)? Or to the Wanderer-Fantasy, if you are familiar with it? And which of them is hardest, and which is your favourite?

I have only a superficial knowledge of the Schubert sonatas and want to change this.

[steinwayguy]

Indeed? How do the Schubert sonatas compare in terms of technical difficulty to let us say: op. 90, op.57, op.101 or op.106 (where would you place Schubert in general, and does any sonata come in the near of Hammerklavier)? Or to the Wanderer-Fantasy, if you are familiar with it? And which of them is hardest, and which is your favourite?

I have only a superficial knowledge of the Schubert sonatas and want to change this.

Schubert's D Major sonata is generally considered the most technically difficult, and I'm sure it would be in the top six or seven of Beethoven sonatas, ahead of Op. 90, 110 and maybe 109. In terms of technically difficult, the C Minor D.958 would be second and around the same when compared with Beethoven sonatas. And, mind you, a lot of Schubert's "technical" difficulties are the consequences of insane things like seven note chords that are marked pianissimo. Schubert, like Mozart, requires perfection of tone production, while Beethoven does not (a lot of the time), and it just so happens that Schubert sonatas are about three times longer than the Mozart sonatas.

I'm pretty sure the Wanderer Fantasy is more technically difficult than either the D Major or C Minor sonatas, and probably comparable to 111, but don't quote me on that.

Anway, I'm not too well versed in the Schubert sonatas either, so if anyone else wants to contribute...

[musicsdarkangel]

 

 

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Steinwayguy,

You really need to realize that everyone has an opinion.

You let yours fuel your fire too much.

[TheHammer]

Schubert's D Major sonata is generally considered the most technically difficult, and I'm sure it would be in the top six or seven of Beethoven sonatas, ahead of Op. 90, 110 and maybe 109. In terms of technically difficult, the C Minor D.958 would be second and around the same when compared with Beethoven sonatas. And, mind you, a lot of Schubert's "technical" difficulties are the consequences of insane things like seven note chords that are marked pianissimo. Schubert, like Mozart, requires perfection of tone production, while Beethoven does not (a lot of the time), and it just so happens that Schubert sonatas are about three times longer than the Mozart sonatas.

I'm pretty sure the Wanderer Fantasy is more technically difficult than either the D Major or C Minor sonatas, and probably comparable to 111, but don't quote me on that.

Anway, I'm not too well versed in the Schubert sonatas either, so if anyone else wants to contribute...

Oh, well, thank you very much. Okay, I think I should have a look into this direction then, in the next...well...years, probably.

The case is, I played (let's say tried to play, that's better) the Wanderer-Fantasy, and I can say it definitely matches up with the late sonatas of Beethoven (I would rank it in the near of op.101, which is my second hardest, but you can't really compare: Wanderer is simply virtuosic, while op.101 is just un-pianistical (3rd mov.!).)

Good, good...

[jhon]

well, you know their characters are opposites - mozart requires delicate and intricate touch as it'll be often full of scales, arpeggios, less octaves.  Beethoven is more pessimistic is often bangs the keyboard!

[shoshin]

Beethoven conveys a much deeper emotion. Its so real and you can't hide from it but its not pleasant to me. It scares the crap outta me. This guy had some serious issues and listening to his music his spirit comes out and like I said it scares the crap outta me.
This guy was sad and depressed but defiant of it and, angry, powerful, and above all a genius.

[Waldszenen]

I do agree that Beethoven's sonatas convey more deeper emotion - but you have to realise that Mozart was amidst the peak of the classical period whereas Beethoven was shaping way for the Romantic period.

[pianoville]

I thought that Mozart and Haydn was so easy like a year ago. Now i play Haydn Piano Concerto in D major and i can tell you that it's even harder than Ravel Jeux d'eau! Many people really underestimate Mozart and Haydn. It really have to be played without one wrong note! Otherwise it will not sound so good anymore.