Opinions on the Hardest piano piece ever written

[ed palamar]

This is not a topic for arguing.  If you cannot express an opinion without supporting those of others you should remain tacit.

[Etude]

And I suppose not liking modern art makes me uncultured, some sort of uncivilised barbarian?

No, not at all, feel free to like or dislike whatever the hell you please.  Being completely disrespectful towards it does, though.

[tds]

ART LOL

a splendid oeuvre! here we see three squares aligned vertically. may they signify nothing but the mystified supreme power that has transmitted "Himself" to humanity and earth?; and the shade of green, which creates both sumptuous radiance and striking softness-epitomizes lasting mother nature: mountains, seas, trees, and all creatures within? a highly spiritual in concept, yet at the same time most corporeal in its desire to practicality, this pragmatically sized work, however simple, can indeed contribute a great deal to what may be perceived as the dawn of many future happenings in the visual festivities of pianostreet.com. tds

[thalbergmad]

This is not a topic for arguing.  If you cannot express an opinion without supporting those of others you should remain tacit.

Those who joined the forum 5 minutes ago might want to spend a bit of time looking further back. Sometimes, all we do is argue.

Thal

[Petter]

ART LOL

Is that Ireland?

[general disarray]

Is that Ireland?

Close.

Actually, the top two are entitled "Ireland."

The bottom one is entitled "Synapse's Hangover."

[thalbergmad]

I thought it was a bogey running down a wall.

Thal

[pies]

I think all Finnissy h8rs should listen to his Folklore II, it's so pretty 

[thalbergmad]

OK, will do.

I will report back.

Thal

[Etude]

I just tried to play a SINGLE block of those absurdly wide arpeggios from Midsummer Morn, um, well, i just about managed it at about half speed, without any serious wrong notes, but I really can't imagine someone being able to throw their hands at the notes with accuracy at full speed.  Something of this difficulty basically becomes 'micro-choreography' for the hands.  I give up.  Perhaps if J. Powell were to venture into this topic he could shed some light on performing ultra-difficult Finnissy pieces like this.

[retrouvailles]

I don't think it would be worth starting a topic on this, given the amount of immaturity and stupidity on this forum regarding more modern music.

[Nightscape]

Let's say that you did decide on what the hardest piece was.  Does it really matter?  I could take that piece (for argument's sake we'll say it is Evryali), add one extra note to the end, call it 'Evryali II' and my new piece would be the hardest piece in the world.

[lostinidlewonder]

Who are any of us to say what's "trash"? 

What we CAN say is that this or that doesn't appeal or may even actually irritate.  That doesn't make the object "trash".


... etc .etc.


How can that be "trash"?     

What is music supposed to inspire in us? It is emotion isn't it? Yes.

I am saying that this "TRASHY" music, the stuff that is impossible to even understand 20% of in one listening, this can inspire emotions of confusion, tension, etc etc all negative emotions in myself. To some it evokes a curiosity, like someone looking at something alien and wants to understand it. This feeds some psychological need I am sure, and that is to be different, obscure, detached from the mainstream. This type of fantasy that you are a part of some exclusive new form of musical thinking is attractive to many. To me as a professional musician who is very interested in music to encourage positive emotion in people, I find there is A LOT of trash, both from this new musical ideas and the old, but new avant guard music is predominantly trash. It is trash for me because I like music for enjoyment, it is not something to be constructed heavily on obscure academic type music.

We have to know that not everything we see is art. It has to make us feel something, it has to change our way of thinking. Maybe 5% of piano music lover will actually say that some avant guard piano composition is enjoyable and makes you feel very positive emotions. Most of us will simply laugh at it and say, what a muck. And I can even understand this type of music, I could spend my time learning it, memorising it, trying to find the musical value of it. But why bother? To me I haven't enough years in my lifetime to play all the music I would love to play from the composers pre 20th century let alone waste hours and hours on a few pages of pretty much random music contrived to look very clever. I am certainly not entertained or mystified by people trying to be different or pave new grounds in music, I will give them my full interest when their music actually starts to be memorable and you catch yourself humming passages that have entranced you, that is real music, not TRASH in my opinion and after all, it is only my opinion but one which is of the mainstream though



 

[tds]

a splendid oeuvre! here we see three squares aligned vertically. may they signify nothing but the mystified supreme power that has transmitted "Himself" to humanity and earth?; and the shade of green, which creates both sumptuous radiance and striking softness-epitomizes lasting mother nature: mountains, seas, trees, and all creatures within? a highly spiritual in concept, yet at the same time most corporeal in its desire to practicality, this pragmatically sized work, however simple, can indeed contribute a great deal to what may be perceived as the dawn of many future happenings in the visual festivities of pianostreet.com. tds

anyone knows where i can find more info re. this incredible comtemporary artist? truly inspiring, s/he is.

[Petter]

I found this read interesting
https://cnx.org/content/m13845/latest/
It kinda adresses the layman how to make sense out of modern music.

[sakhmet]

i listened to that mp3 (the one you posted a link to) - it's short, about 50 sec., and it sounded to me like my cousin's 5 year-old son who always has to bang with his fists on my piano whenever they come visit

but then again, maybe it's just me...

No, I completely agree with you.  That piece (if I can even call it that) was NOT music.  There was not musical sense to it whatsoever.  Your cousin's son probably sounds  better than that.

[tds]

Your cousin's son probably sounds  better than that.

i don't doubt that it's possible. btw, what's ur cousin's name? he must be talented, too.

[slobone]

I found this read interesting
https://cnx.org/content/m13845/latest/
It kinda adresses the layman how to make sense out of modern music.

Very interesting, thanks for posting.

[lostinidlewonder]

Music has already developed into its new form, just look at the pop charts and people making CDs and singing of videos on television. That is the new form of music. The new form of music when it comes to random poundings on the piano, this is so foolish to think it is paving new way for modern music. To tell you the truth in 200 years I could imagine that all this new stuff will just be ignored just like a lot of trash 400 years ago have been forgotten and never played again.

[m]

To tell you the truth in 200 years I could imagine that all this new stuff will just be ignored just like a lot of trash 400 years ago have been forgotten and never played again.

To all those with vivid imagination, who believe they are "telling the truth", may I remind that somebody named 'J.S. Bach' was in the same trash until discovered in the early 19 century by somebody named 'Mendelssohn'.

May I remind, somebody named 'L.v. Beethoven' in his times in the eyes of some "telling the truth believers" was writing "trash and cacophony", "unplayed by sane humans".

Best regards, M

[thalbergmad]

'J.C. Bach' was in the same trash until discovered in the early 19 century by somebody named 'Mendelssohn'.

Do you not mean J.S oh great one??

Thal

[lostinidlewonder]

To all those with vivid imagination, who believe they are "telling the truth",....

If you read I said I THINK, not THIS IS THE TRUTH.

[m]

If you read I said I THINK, not THIS IS THE TRUTH.

You never said "I think". In fact, I never read one single post of yours suggesting anything close to "I think"--everything "IS the TRUTH, AND ONLY THE TRUTH"...

If to look at your insights in 'audition room', it seems you enjoy criticizing on a 'wrong/missing notes' level. In fact, I don't remember one positivie comment of yours on the other folks playing.

Lighten up dude... or even better, post one of your recent recordings, and then we'll talk...

Best, M

[tds]

post one of your recent recordings, and then we'll talk...

Best, M

i'd be interested in listening to them too.

[retrouvailles]

post one of your recent recordings, and then we'll talk

Owned.

[tanman]

not another one of these hardest piano piece threads... ugh.

[synapse]

I'm not exposed to a lot of classical music (I don't recognize any of the classical composers or titles in this thread), but I would humbly suggest that a transcription of a cutting contest performance by one of the great Harlem stride piano masters might belong to the category of the most difficult piano pieces.  And I think no other genre reconciles difficulty with accessibility (toe-tapping, shouting-out-loud happy) better than stride does.

Finally, a piano appreciator! I would love to learn some of that music.

[sakhmet]

Finally, a piano appreciator! I would love to learn some of that music.

Oh, stride is absolutely fantastic!  I play Dizzy Fingers by Zez Confrey and it's a very fun piece indeed.  Now, I do love my classical but you can't go wrong with Harlem stride!  I would highly recommend some Confrey or Fats Waller, Jelly Roll Morton, Art Tatum, they are all brilliant! 

[lostinidlewonder]

You never said "I think". In fact, I never read one single post of yours suggesting anything close to "I think"--everything "IS the TRUTH, AND ONLY THE TRUTH"...

If to look at your insights in 'audition room', it seems you enjoy criticizing on a 'wrong/missing notes' level. In fact, I don't remember one positivie comment of yours on the other folks playing.

Lighten up dude... or even better, post one of your recent recordings, and then we'll talk...

Best, M

You are just making yourself look stupid. Here you go, I'll copy paste what i said exactly, if you read carefully and get all this crazy thoughts out of your head about me for one moment, maybe you will see your error.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,30110.msg348456.html#msg348456
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,30052.msg348458.html#msg348458
Here are some positive comments from me, and way before you accuse me of being a negative person.

Why should I post a recording? I have no need to and certainly not to prove myself to faceless unknown people on pianoforum. I on the other hand will give my professional opinion of others peoples recording, I will in fact donate my time for that (and I will not be pressured to labor on a recording to post on piano forum if I don't feel like it), whether you like it or not should be kept to yourself.

......To tell you the truth in 200 years I COULD IMAGINE that all this new stuff will just be ignored just like a lot of trash 400 years ago have been forgotten and never played again.

I could imagine... now does that mean that what I am saying IS THE TRUTH? Maybe to you, not to me. I am telling you the truth about what I am imagining, maybe I am too colorful with my words for you.

[tds]

Why should I post a recording? I have no need to and certainly not to prove myself to faceless unknown people on pianoforum.

hmm, lostinidlewonder, why is knowing people, and their faces, important when you play music?  i doubt it should. in fact, with due respect, i don't understand why you said that, really. it is totally impertinent. music is a heart-to-heart/soul-to-soul matter- you can still touch people's hearts without knowing them or seeing their faces. isn't it more or less what performers do? tds

[lostinidlewonder]

hmm, lostinidlewonder, why is knowing people, and their faces, important when you play music?  i doubt it should. in fact, with due respect, i don't understand why you said that, really. it is totally impertinent. music is a heart-to-heart/soul-to-soul matter- you can still touch people's hearts without knowing them or seeing their faces. isn't it more or less what performers do? tds

In the context of what was said by the other poster, that I should post some recordings to prove myself, I do not want to take part of any of these games. Secondly it is assuming that I have all the recording equipment and time available to do such a task. It doesn't interest me to post my playing because people get to hear my playing in person. There are certainly many more pianists that post on this board who do not post recordings and it doesn't reflect that they have not the playing skills to do so. Am I supposed to try and make you think this if you think otherwise? I personally don't give a crap about what other people think about me on a piano forum, and I wont waste my time playing their little games.

 As one person says I was OWNED by being asked to post a recording, I fail to see how it proves anything. Certainly being a professional musician I don't like the thought of my recordings being copied and shared and essentially raped by the piracy of today.

[thalbergmad]

As one person says I was OWNED by being asked to post a recording, I fail to see how it proves anything.

Marik has used this approach before, knowing full well that he can play 99.9% of us under the table.

One day though, he will pick on the wrong person.

Thal

[tds]

In the context of what was said by the other poster, that I should post some recordings to prove myself, I do not want to take part of any of these games. Secondly it is assuming that I have all the recording equipment and time available to do such a task. It doesn't interest me to post my playing because people get to hear my playing in person. There are certainly many more pianists that post on this board who do not post recordings and it doesn't reflect that they have not the playing skills to do so. Am I supposed to try and make you think this if you think otherwise? I personally don't give a crap about what other people think about me on a piano forum, and I wont waste my time playing their little games.

 As one person says I was OWNED by being asked to post a recording, I fail to see how it proves anything. Certainly being a professional musician I don't like the thought of my recordings being copied and shared and essentially raped by the piracy of today.

how about thinking of posting a recording for the purpose of sharing music and touching peoples' heart, instead of getting the feeling of your having to prove anything? tds

[slobone]

Marik has used this approach before, knowing full well that he can play 99.9% of us under the table.

One day though, he will pick on the wrong person.

Thal

That's only 999 out of 1000 -- don't we have more than 1000 members?

[thalbergmad]

Not active i would have thought

[lostinidlewonder]

Marik has used this approach before, knowing full well that he can play 99.9% of us under the table.

One day though, he will pick on the wrong person.

Thal

Maybe if I was still a teenager I would have got all ruffed up and feel the need to prove myself and have a "showdown". Usually we find confidence in ourselves without having to prove that we can play "better" than another person. I'm so over the stage of comparing myself to others or thinking we can learn anything from doing so.

The competitive nature that exists in America is polar opposites to the mate-ship that you get in Australia. Here we are not very competitive, so cultural differences have to be appreciated I guess.

how about thinking of posting a recording for the purpose of sharing music and touching peoples' heart, instead of getting the feeling of your having to prove anything? tds

Well it was marik who suggested I post to prove. I have in fact posted improvisations but none of the standards, and you will notice that my recordings where done back in 2001. Since then I haven't had time to do any more, nor the equipment or interest. Anyway why should I be defending why I don't post recordings? I certainly will not post any if people tell me to do so so "we can talk". Why should I reward what I consider bad behavior?

Another key reason why I do not want to post recordings of the standards is because of my respect for music. I severely hate the idea of music being copied and freely distributed amongst people (however if it is someone wanting critique on their music this is a perfect opportunity for them to use this avenue.). It's being ripped off and what took me thousands of hours of work is freely appreciated by anyone and everyone without any consideration for the work the musician went through to produce it. It might encourage people to come listen to me or teach people something about piano playing, but I already have my niche where I provide all of this, at the moment posting free music of my playing on the internet is not one of them. Whether people like it or not or read into it and make their own opinions about me, it really doesn't bother me.


I think this really is related to the topic of this thread too. I have a big hate for judging what is best or what is hardest. It is just a waste of time, don't people realise that there are people who do actually go through life not trying to compete with people, even though if they did they probably would pound you flat and make you eat your words. I have had wonderful experiences making people eat their words but I am over that stage in life, it doesn't excite me to do any of that rubbish, you grow out of it.

[general disarray]

I have a big hate for judging what is best or what is hardest. It is just a waste of time, don't people realise that there are people who do actually go through life not trying to compete with people, even though if they did they probably would pound you flat and make you eat your words. I have had wonderful experiences making people eat their words but I am over that stage in life, it doesn't excite me to do any of that rubbish, you grow out of it.

If you're so beyond competition, then why do you persist in trying to win this argument?  Are you still wishing  to relive [and I quote your words] the "wonderful experiences making people eat their words"?

Methinks you protesteth too much.

[lostinidlewonder]

If you're so beyond competition, then why do you persist in trying to win this argument?  Are you still wishing  to relive [and I quote your words] the "wonderful experiences making people eat their words"?

Methinks you protesteth too much.

I just like to let people know that what they think and what they know are 2 different things. I did say it was a wonderful experience, but it was one which was only appreciated in the youth of inexperience.

[m]

You are just making yourself look stupid. Here you go, I'll copy paste what i said exactly, if you read carefully and get all this crazy thoughts out of your head about me for one moment, maybe you will see your error.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,30110.msg348456.html#msg348456
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,30052.msg348458.html#msg348458
Here are some positive comments from me, and way before you accuse me of being a negative person.

As always, you are right, I stay corrected--consider you won.

Marik has used this approach before...

Indeed, this is true  . I remember doing it twice. Ones when some completely incompetent member for quite awhile was giving some technical "insights", which did not make any sense and gave very wrong message to the folks here, so naturally, I was curious what kind of results it would give. 
And another time when some boaster was bragging for quite a long time as for how good he was, so out of curiosity I asked for the recording. Naturally, the answer was that he doesn't need to prove anything.

knowing full well that he can play 99.9% of us under the table.

I never thought this way. I play piano not "to play somebody under the table", but to say something through the instrument and try to do my best and do it as honestly as I can, and just because... I cannot not play. If anything, I always prefer those who can rather "play me under the table" and/or teach me something. In fact, before important performances I still take lessons from people I respect and trust.
Every day I learn something new and the more I learn the more enigmatic and misterious music and piano become.

I guess, I am always curious about people who call themselves "professionals" and pretend "to know it all", for whom there is no vagueness in music, and for whom music is a "desided matter".

 

One day though, he will pick on the wrong person.

 

Actually, I did not long ago. Guess what? Immediately I gladly apologized 

Best, M

[tds]

As always, you are right, I stay corrected--consider you won.

Indeed, this is true  . I remember doing it twice. Ones when some completely incompetent member for quite awhile was giving some technical "insights", which did not make any sense and gave very wrong message to the folks here, so naturally, I was curious what kind of results it would give. 
And another time when some boaster was bragging for quite a long time as for how good he was, so out of curiosity I asked for the recording. Naturally, the answer was that he doesn't need to prove anything.

I never thought this way. I play piano not "to play somebody under the table", but to say something through the instrument and try to do my best and do it as honestly as I can, and just because... I cannot not play. If anything, I always prefer those who can rather "play me under the table" and/or teach me something. In fact, before important performances I still take lessons from people I respect and trust.
Every day I learn something new and the more I learn the more enigmatic and misterious music and piano become.

I guess, I am always curious about people who call themselves "professionals" and pretend "to know it all", for whom there is no vagueness in music, and for whom music is a "desided matter".

 
 

Actually, I did not long ago. Guess what? Immediately I gladly apologized 

Best, M

i have followed this particular argument along. i have read some of marik's posts ( including the immediate above, which i consider very graceful and shows big-heartedness on his part) and i have also listened to some of marik's recordings which we all know are brilliant, masterly and earnest, to say the least. all in all, i'd say he has my sympathy. warmest, tds

[thalbergmad]

Actually, I did not long ago. Guess what? Immediately I gladly apologized 

Best, M

Indeed you did old chap and it is a quality that appears to be missing in some members.

Thal

[synapse]

If you cannot express an opinion without supporting those of others you should remain tacit.

lol, everything we say has to agree with everyone else. Smart comment. Cause that's how the world was built right.

[lostinidlewonder]

Actually, I did not long ago. Guess what? Immediately I gladly apologized 

Oh your apology highlight how honorable you are? What a joke. You haven't learned any lesson about accusing people about being frauds, even when you are shown to be wrong in cases you still go ahead and accuse people. So you essentially will never change how you behave when it comes to this.

[m]

Oh your apology highlight how honorable you are? What a joke. You haven't learned any lesson about accusing people about being frauds, even when you are shown to be wrong in cases you still go ahead and accuse people. So you essentially will never change how you behave when it comes to this.

Oy vei... 

Hey Lostinidlewonder,

Even this single post of yours shows how well "you know it all". I had enough of your nonsenses and really don't have time or desire for them. If you are the type of person who always likes to have the last word, please make any summary whatever you feel neccessary and let's put it into rest.

Best, M

[lostinidlewonder]

Oy vei... 

Hey Lostinidlewonder,

Even this single post of yours shows how well "you know it all". I had enough of your nonsenses and really don't have time or desire for them. If you are the type of person who always likes to have the last word, please make any summary whatever you feel neccessary and let's put it into rest.

Best, M

How am I knowing it all? This is just logic no personal opinion within it. That you said, you recently accused someone and then  apologized for being wrong. Then you go ahead and accuse me, when will this end, surely you don't need to be proven wrong again? How many times do you have to be shown that calling someone a fraud really puts you in a hot spot not the other person, and that you can still go calling people fraud full knowing that you have been wrong and recently wrong in this activity.

I certainly don't believe in what many people say but I don't go so far to let my personal feelings start calling them a fraud and liar.

The fact that this comes up on a thread about the hardest piece ever written highlights that it attracts egos who believe that have some type of superiority complex me thinks. This certainly does not comes from me since I am merely defending the negativity that is thrown into my face.

[m]

How am I knowing it all? This is just logic no personal opinion within it. That you said, you recently accused someone and then  apologized for being wrong. Then you go ahead and accuse me, when will this end, surely you don't need to be proven wrong again? How many times do you have to be shown that calling someone a fraud really puts you in a hot spot not the other person, and that you can still go calling people fraud full knowing that you have been wrong and recently wrong in this activity.

I certainly don't believe in what many people say but I don't go so far to let my personal feelings start calling them a fraud and liar.

The fact that this comes up on a thread about the hardest piece ever written highlights that it attracts egos who believe that have some type of superiority complex me thinks. This certainly does not comes from me since I am merely defending the negativity that is thrown into my face.

Dear Lostinidlewonder,

You logic is quite amusing. I am not sure if you are just questioning my intelligence, so to put things straight:

First, I did not accuse recently anybody. Yes, in that particular case I was quite abrasive and the reason was I misread another person's tone. There were however no any accusations.

Second, I never called you (or anybody else, for that matter) fraud.

Third, I never called you liar.

Fourth, you are the first person ever to call me having complex superiority. People can call me whatever (abrasive, for example, esp. towards some smart @$$es, braggers, ignorants, as well as "knowing it all prophets"), but knowing from my own experinece how hard it takes to play piano I just too much respect people who want and desire it, and besides, believe I just don't know enough in life to feel myself superior. 

And the last, fifth, I don't accuse you, and don't follow the logic--just give simple facts, if you insist:

a) In the thread about Rachmaninov Moment Musicaux in E-flat minor in very polite form I told you that we have very different pick on the piece, you however kept going and going (BTW, exactly like in this very thread). Even the fact itself that Rachmaninov himself played the piece with "raises and falls" is not good enough for you of the reason.
IIRC, you ended up with some quite ridiculous comparison of this Moment Musicaux with Waldesrauchen--it is hard to imagine two more different pieces in term of music world, music language, emotional context, dynamic plan, and means of execution.  It was very clear, all you wanted is to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong.

b) I saw quite a few times when you would not find one single nice thing to say about posted performances, saying to somebody "you don't need praises, but need critique" and then start picking on wrong notes.
Let me tell you, Lostindidlewonder, if you were a performing artist you'd learn that critique without praises is a way to many ruined careers. On this topic I would highly recommend Lazar Berman's book called "Annees de Pelerinage" ones it gets translated into English (unless you read German or Russian).

c) You even did not find a one single word to say about otherwise very fine masterclass posted by Tengstrand, starting explaining what the good teacher is  .

d) Even a second grader will not have any doubts about what: "To tell you the truth, I could imagine..." means. Please don't tell me that it means: "I think"...
 
We are all good in proving ourselves right, critiquing, and "saying the truth", Lostinidlewonder. However, after that last one I just started wondering what makes you think you are entitled to "Tell us the truth"?

Hopefully, now it is much more clear where I was coming from.

So you can take it as a critique and go home and learn something from it, or you can start proving again that you are right and I am wrong. I am fine with either.

Take care, M

[thalbergmad]

So you can take it as a critique and go home and learn something from it, or you can start proving again that you are right and I am wrong. I am fine with either.

10-1 on the latter

[lostinidlewonder]

I am not proving you wrong or me right, i am just highlighting what you are saying.

You logic is quite amusing. I am not sure if you are just questioning my intelligence, so to put things straight:

First, I did not accuse recently anybody. Yes, in that particular case I was quite abrasive and the reason was I misread another person's tone. There were however no any accusations.

Lets see. You said. "NOT LONG AGO" so doesn't that mean recent? It certainly means not long ago doesn't it. 

Second, I never called you (or anybody else, for that matter) fraud.

Third, I never called you liar.

You do not have to directly call me this to IMPLY it. You said, post recordings then we can talk, that is almost saying, you are too low to talk to until you PROVE yourself with recordings. In other words, everything I write should be ignored until I post a recording. This is turn is saying, don't listen to lostinidlewonder until he posts something because I certainly will not talk with him until he does so. So there is no use trying to avoid your harsh critique on me.

Fourth, you are the first person ever to call me having complex superiority. People can call me whatever (abrasive, for example, esp. towards some smart @$$es, braggers, ignorants, as well as "knowing it all prophets"), but knowing from my own experinece how hard it takes to play piano I just too much respect people who want and desire it, and besides, believe I just don't know enough in life to feel myself superior. 

Your need for me to post a recording and all of your negative comments upon my critique on other people highlight this fact that you have some hate for people who might know something about your favorite topic too.

a) In the thread about Rachmaninov Moment Musicaux in E-flat minor in very polite form I told you that we have very different pick on the piece, you however kept going and going (BTW, exactly like in this very thread). Even the fact itself that Rachmaninov himself played the piece with "raises and falls" is not good enough for you of the reason.
IIRC, you ended up with some quite ridiculous comparison of this Moment Musicaux with Waldesrauchen--it is hard to imagine two more different pieces in term of music world, music language, emotional context, dynamic plan, and means of execution.  It was very clear, all you wanted is to prove you are right and everyone else is wrong.

I am highlighting the fact that people go against what is written, as you did. That is fine, but I don't think its best, you can do it, go for it. Afterall I never said I am the way, I said this is what I think, take it or leave it. Those who have bad experience with critique as yourself react badly if someone says something you don't agree with, you just leave it as that, we are not trying to convince just share ideas. I didn't take a personal stance in this matter, however you seemed to think I was attacking you personally.

b) I saw quite a few times when you would not find one single nice thing to say about posted performances, saying to somebody "you don't need praises, but need critique" and then start picking on wrong notes.

I can post more links proving you are dead wrong here again, why should I debunk you again? Surely the first time was enough when you said EVERYTHING I SAID WAS NEGATIVE. Why don't you stop suggesting you know someone when you really don't?

d) Even a second grader will not have any doubts about what: "To tell you the truth, I could imagine..." means. Please don't tell me that it means: "I think"...

You need an English lesson if you don't think it means "I think".

[rob47]

INTRODUCTION TO LOSTINIDLEWONDER RANT 101

I, me, me, my, I, I am, me, I'm, I, my I, me, I, I, I, me, me, my I, I am, me, I, me, me, I, I am, me, I'm, I, my, I, me, I, I, I, me, me, I, I am, me

Complete by filling in the blanks.  The rant's final message, although difficult to determine (bordering on incoherent), and regardless of what the question at hand is, should be one of the following:
i.e. "I'm awesome" or "I know better " (in the latter note the excellent use of the  Winkus Totus Gnarus)

complete list:

Great!     Phenomenal!     Superb!
Cool!    Out Of Sight!    Excellent!
Unbelievable Work!    Two Thumbs Up!    Got It!
Way To Go!    Terrific!    Outstanding Performance!
Marvelous!    Help Counts!
Amazing Effort!    Bravo!    Exceptional!
Breathtaking!    Wonderful!    Special!
Keep Up The Good Work!    First Rate Work!    Fantastic Work!
Should Be Proud!    Very Good!
Stupendous!    Sensational!    A+ Work!
What An Imagination!    Awesome!     A Great Example For Others!
Made It Happen!    A Real Trooper!    It Couldn't Be Better!
A Good Sport!     Made The Difference!
Take A Bow!    Super Job!    Unique!
It's Everything I Hoped For!    Nice Going!
A Class Act!    Well Done!    Inspiring!
How Artistic!

-The desired effect on the reader should be one of confusion; questions like "What did I just read?" should permeate in the minds of readers.
-The use of "CAPITALS-TO-SUGGEST-YELLING" is recommended to direct readers to what the writer believes are 'important points' in the rant.
Generally, this is the self-centred ranting style which will ostracize one from a community and if truly successful, after reading, most readers simply ignore future rants.

[retrouvailles]

Haha, if this forum allowed propping, I would totally prop Rob's post. Well done.

lostinidlewonder, just leave this forum if you have nothing constructive to say.