I cant belevie ppl cant put this through their heads

[steveie986]

pianistimo

you will be pleased to know that I bought myself a bible today

(I do not believe in god, I just feel as though I ought to read the bible to understand why christians are christians - mostly, I just like picking out the flaws)

but I am reading it non-the-less

<applause>

"Picking out the flaws..." Hmm, sounds like someone's headed for hell.

[deja vu]

Well, yes, I might be going to hell...

Problem is, I don't believe in hell so I'm not worried

[steveie986]

Oh? Whether or not YOU believe doesn't matter. The fool saith to his heart, there is no gravity, but he falleth on his posterior nonethless.

[prometheus]

Deja vu, you will be amazed about what is actually in there.

[yuc4h]

I have started to think that I don't even want to 'get' to the heaven(even if it WOULD exist) because people who get there are mostly tards. Religion sucks, world would be a much better place without it. In my opinion, being religious should be considered a mental sickness and treated as such...

I rather live my life well and do what I want to do than wait for some stupid reason to die just so I can be rewarded in the 'afterlife'(Sheer nothingness since the consious mind is dead. The body is rotting in the grave.)

[ahinton]

"Picking out the flaws..." Hmm, sounds like someone's headed for hell.

OK, maybe so - but do they already know who owns the place? And have they yet figured out the extent of its international (inter-celestial?) debt (the 3rd would debt thread q.v.), let alone its potential consequences? And another thing - has the place yet indicated an intent to apply for EC membership?

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

dear deja vu,

appreciation for the concession.  i will now consider buying a math textbook one step beyond algebra II.  not sure what to buy.  i am most interested in something that would have the answers in the back.  then, if i get the wrong answer, i will know it.

[kelly_kelly]

I have started to think that I don't even want to 'get' to the heaven(even if it WOULD exist) because people who get there are mostly tards. Religion sucks, world would be a much better place without it. In my opinion, being religious should be considered a mental sickness and treated as such...

A little harsh, but I agree that religion has seriously hurt the world (I actually wrote an essay on it).

[deja vu]

dear deja vu,

appreciation for the concession.  i will now consider buying a math textbook one step beyond algebra II.  not sure what to buy.  i am most interested in something that would have the answers in the back.  then, if i get the wrong answer, i will know it.

well done!

apparently I am to maths as you are to the bible

interesting

[pianistimo]

seriously, i just looked at mongomery community colleges math program and was considering taking another class.  but, then i thought - what in the heck would i do with it.  impress my husband?  so, then i think again about crossword puzzles. 

mid-life is very hard.  u realize u don't know anything.  u probably never will.  and, u may have made it only a few steps near where ur grandparents were - but possibly not past by much.  there is so much knowledge - but so little time.

and, i have children - who don't like it when i spend time on piano let alone math.  maybe u should occasionally challenge me with a math problem and i'll occasionally quote a scripture and try to explain it so that it makes sense.  this might be easier on both of us.  although a bible near the bedstand can't hurt ur prayer life.

[steveie986]

although a bible near the bedstand can't hurt ur prayer life.

...or your sex life, for that matter. A recent study revealed that conservative Republican married folks had much more active, vibrant sex lives than their liberal heathen Democrat counterparts. No joke: https://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/News/story?id=180291

[quasimodo]

If we write x=1, we assume that x is a number, because 1 is a number, and only a number can be equal to another number.
Then when we write 0.99999999... = 1, we necessarily imply that 0.99999999... is a number which is not quite obvious... if 0,99999999... is a number, then inifinity is a number. But inifinity is not a number so 0,99999999... is not a number, then it cannot be equal to 1 which is a number.

[kony]

not this topic again!

there are two ways of looking at this: a mathematical way, and a common sense, non-educated way.

the mathematical way states that 0.99999999... = 1. this is the concept of limits. as x approaches 1, x IS 1.

and the common sense way just says.. how can it ever reach 1? theres still that 0.0000000000000000000000....1 difference. I'm inclined just to drop the common sense method since such a number doesn't exist in daily life. But viewed from a scientific point of view, 1 = 0.999999... as proven by many methods shown in earlier posts.

[quasimodo]

not this topic again!

there are two ways of looking at this: a mathematical way, and a common sense, non-educated way.

the mathematical way states that 0.99999999... = 1. this is the concept of limits. as x approaches 1, x IS 1.

and the common sense way just says.. how can it ever reach 1? theres still that 0.0000000000000000000000....1 difference. I'm inclined just to drop the common sense method since such a number doesn't exist in daily life. But viewed from a scientific point of view, 1 = 0.999999... as proven by many methods shown in earlier posts.

Strange, I would say the opposite: common sense says 1=0.99999... but mathematically speaking the statement in itself is absurd, like saying "birds are noodles" 

[pianistimo]

i once saw a noodle bird.  (in the mirror)

i couldn't remember the original topic of this thread until you brought it up again.  i was going to start in about the bible and sex - but then i thought - this isn't what the thread is about.  i have no clue as to who is really satisfied and who isn't.  what if they lied.  what if democrats say they aren't having a good time - and really their having a  grand time but going to hell afterwards (figuratively speaking).  i wouldn't doubt this is the case. 

as for me, i really do feel satisfied.  i think it's expectations.  if you lower them every year - you'll be guaranteed to be satisfied.  my husband does this with me, too.  we really enjoy each other's company over 'lets go to bed right now.'  of course, sometimes we do - but i used to wish he'd come home at lunch and say that.  after so many years - and his work so far away - i stopped thinking about the mailman.  when you first marry - that's all you think about  sex sex sex.  then, you still like it a few years later - but you realize the consequences.  (a few children).  for us, we can have a good time bicycling.  and we like to joke around a lot.  i think when you know your spouse is thinking of you a lot - it makes you love them more.  he calls during the day and we talk and all.  this means a lot to me.

one last thing...i think after many years of being married and having the kids get a little bit older - there is more time for anything you want to do.  when you have little children - you can't exactly go out every night.  but, there's atime for every season.  now, our older kids babysit - so if we have a spur of the moment idea - it's not nixed over a baby.

ps  just joking about expectation - sort of.  i mean - certain things you'll always wish your mate could understand or do - but if you don't dwell on them and don't make them a sort of #1 nag - and just understand that aspect of them - then the rewards are better.  i think we have a better sex life now than when we were first married.  and it was good then.  sometimes he'll make some sort of snide comment (like - our daugher was searching the house for food at 1 am and he blames me for not cooking dinner) but i just don't let it bother me.  she doesn't always like to eat what i cook - and i did cook baked potatoes.  usually she loves them - but i guess i'd have to give her a menu every night if she always got what she was in the mood for.

[berrt]

the mathematical way states that 0.99999999... = 1. this is the concept of limits. as x approaches 1, x IS 1.

and the common sense way just says.. how can it ever reach 1? theres still that 0.0000000000000000000000....1 difference. I'm inclined just to drop the common sense method since such a number doesn't exist in daily life. But viewed from a scientific point of view, 1 = 0.999999... as proven by many methods shown in earlier posts.

x = 0.9999...

10x = 9.9999...

9x = 9

x = 9/9 = 1

[kony]

x = 0.9999...

10x = 9.9999...

9x = 9

x = 9/9 = 1

that was one of the solutions i was talking about, but this too has its flaw.

since we take x = 0.9999999999999 (with infinite number of 9s)
and 10x = 9.9999999999999999 (again, infinite number of 9s)

we can't actually subtract the two to get 9. because they had infinite number of 9s on the end. therefore you can't say the result is 9. it could be 9.0000000000000000...0001 or 8.999999999999999 etc.

can someone lock this thread?

[bflatminor24]

that was one of the solutions i was talking about, but this too has its flaw.

since we take x = 0.9999999999999 (with infinite number of 9s)
and 10x = 9.9999999999999999 (again, infinite number of 9s)

we can't actually subtract the two to get 9. because they had infinite number of 9s on the end. therefore you can't say the result is 9. it could be 9.0000000000000000...0001 or 8.999999999999999 etc.

can someone lock this thread?

uhh, no, it can't. both have an infinite number of 9's...there is no reason to believe there is an 8 or 1. 9.999999 - .999999 = 9. got it???


max

[steveie986]

1 does not equal 0.9999...

Everyone who thinks so should be destroyed for their stupidity. If this is what "mathematicians" believe then math is worthless.

Proof:
1 is the numeral one; 0.9999... consists of 9 separate ASCII characters, none of which resemble the ASCII character '1'. QED.

[prometheus]

Haha...

[Dazzer]

I was surprised this lasted 7 pages
Pianistimo's posts always makes me laugh, even after i come back after a year.
Stevie still makes me wonder which side of the argument he is on

Ah great having a peek back

here's my answer.

I don't give a crap. believe what you believe. Just don't force your belief on me

And with that i depart again from piano street goodday!

[le_chat]

if 0,99999999... is a number, then inifinity is a number. But inifinity is not a number so 0,99999999... is not a number, then it cannot be equal to 1 which is a number.

hahahahah, howevah, by your proof 1 (which is zimply shorthand fo 1.00000...) is not a numbah eithah.

you fail at math.

 

Proof:
1 is the numeral one; 0.9999... consists of 9 separate ASCII characters, none of which resemble the ASCII character '1'. QED.

Proof:
1 is da numeral one. 5/5 conziztz of 3 zeparate ASCII characterz, noen of which rezemble da ASCII character '1'. QED

you fail at math too.

 

[steveie986]

1 does not equal 5/5. 1 only equals 5/5 after you divide 5 by 5. Please review your first grade math.

[pianistimo]

it all boils down to paper folding for me.  there's a piece of the paper missing if it isn't 100%.  dazzer is right.  i need to be convinced visually.  but, i sorta get the concept.  i would rather teach english than math.  and yet, i am not good at either.  i sort of float around with essays too much.  my mind wanders.  it's funny.  i don't care about precision in language - but i expect it with math.  don't know why.

[prometheus]

1 does not equal 5/5. 1 only equals 5/5 after you divide 5 by 5.

Hmm, ok. Let me try. 5 divided by 5, thats 1. That is one. So 5/1 equals 1? Huh!?

If 1 does not equal 5/5, then which one is the bigger one?

(Yeah, I know this is a yoke but this topic already got so ridiculous already...)

[bflatminor24]

Since the nay-sayers can't be reasoned with logically, I will attempt to delineate this for you conceptually in lieu.

The concept of an INFINITE sequence of 9's is seemingly forgotten. Many of you are equating this concept with .9999999, where the 9's are finite. Please note that the 9's never end. There is no end to the 9's. They go on...FOREVER.

That being said - where can you deduce the DIFFERENCE between 1 and .9bar? If they are NOT the same number, then there must be a difference.

There is no difference between .9bar and 1. The closest you could come up with would be .0bar1, which is NOT a number (consult a leading expert or textbook).

Also, my original proof holds true:

x = .9999etc

10x = 9.9999etc

10x - x = 9x

9.9999etc - .9999etc = 9

9 / 9 = 1.

This proof is not necessary since there is in fact no difference between 1 and .9bar. Remember, the 9's are infinite - I am not making the mistake of rounding a finite number of 9's up to 1.

Let us continue a different discussion? I feel we're beating a horse skeleton...

~Max~

[prometheus]

Can't believe this topic got more responses than my posts about politics. Let alone those about important music.

[pianistimo]

but, bflatminor24  9x = 9 * 9.999etc  = 89.999999....1  it still keeps the number hovering under 9 and not under 1.

[prometheus]

One!? One!? Where does that one come from? ...9991? Huh? And then? ....9991000....? How?

This is bluntly wrong.


You can either say that one cannot calculate with endless numbers, ignoring endless 000..., or you say that it is correct.

This is just the axiom one makes.

[pianistimo]

are you arguing with me or yourself.  honestly, i haven't a clue how the one got there.  it's in the way, if you ask me.  let's talk about the 8.

here's how i see it.  you have an endless supply of cheerios (comes out of a dispenser that is sky high).  can you somehow put it into a word problem or is there just one sky high dispenser?  and how would you know if one cheerio was missing?  that's the one that can't be calculated, right!?  now, what if a thief started eating one cheerio at a time thinking that noone would notice.  say, one day he eats one or two.  the next day he eats four.  i mean, who's going to notice?  he just keeps saying 'the total supply is here.  it equals one sky high dispenser.'  now if someone flew up by helicopter - they'd see that the top of the dispenser had gone down slightly, but who's going to do that. 

this is how government works.  you appropriate x amount of dollars (50% is absconded with during the appropriation).  x=1  or whatever is left.

[le_chat]

You just can't admit you're in the presence of a more powerful mathematical mind. 

Hahahaha, this not about admiting, i just cant BELEIVE zome pregnant cat denied dat 5/5 = 1, and thinkz he is on a pozition to argue irrational numberz.

Hahahah *, seriouzly, 2+2=4 is a correct mathematical ztatementz wethah you decide to carry out da addition oh not, this is da mozt basic arithmetic sheeyatz EVAH.

5/5 = 1
Carry out da divizion
1 = 1

DEY is BOTH CORRECT U DUM pregnant cat, HOW CAN ONE BE WRONG N THE OTHAH RIGHT.

 

but, bflatminor24  9x = 9 * 9.999etc  = 89.999999....1  it still keeps the number hovering under 9 and not under 1.

 89.999999....1

Wat is da 10th decimal place?
9

Wat is da 100th decimal place?
9

Wat is da Millionth decimal place?
9

Tha 1 at tha end of yo sheeyatz is MEANINGLEZZ, becauze in truth it doez not exizt in any decimal place.

 

There is no difference between .9bar and 1. The closest you could come up with would be .0bar1, which is NOT a number (consult a leading expert or textbook).

Hahahah here, i muzt dizagree, this a numbah, this juzt equal to 0.000...

That notation 0.000...n where n is any pozitive integah is juzt ztupid az fuk, because tha n doez not exizt az I haff juzt demonztrated

 

[pianistimo]

that's why the cheerio dispenser is sky high.  it's only people that lie and cheat that tell you that 9.9999=1    (eats a few cheerios thinking noone will notice).

i take this directly from the bible.  remember the 99 sheep, and He leaves them and goes after the one that is lost.  the other sheep can take care of themselves.  100% is where it's at.

did you know millionaires count pennies?

[prometheus]

What has counting got to do about it?


It's only about how one defines the concept of limits. We use numbers this way. Everyone does and likes it this way. Maybe you want to propose a system where 9.99~ is smaller than 1. Well, just try it.

[pianistimo]

i understand what you are saying  9.9999999 is so infintesimally small of difference to 1 that a human being couldn't tell the difference at the second or third degree.  i mean, i let pennies drop on the floor all the time.  well, actually i put them in a tin can in the medicine cabinet.

[lostinidlewonder]

I can't believe that people don't get it through their heads that Christianity is the only religion that will save us. Why? Because Christianity is the only religion which admits that all humans are sinful and ALL deserve to be wiped from existance when we die. Christianity however explains to us how we deal with sin, how we accept it is a part of us but let it hit the sacrifice of Jesus Christ instead of ourselves.

Another thing I can't believe people don't get through their head is that FAITH does not come from ourselves. Faith is not an emotion, it is not a decision, it has nothing to do with our own choice. Faith is GIVEN to us by God. That is why only a mustard seed of faith can move moutains in your life. There is nothing in ourselves which only requires a speck to cause enormous change. Everything we try to do ourselves needs consistient pressure and effort, where faith is so simple, small, but unfortunately not something we can create ourselves.

".9 recurring does not equal one" is a confusing from people not undestanding what infinity means. What happens if we do  0.9 recurring multiplied by 0.9 recurring multiplied by 0.9 recuring etc. We will never tend to zero because 0.9 recurring tends to zero if multiplied by itself in infinitessimally small increments, we must multipy it forever to tend to zero and we will never complete something which goes on forever. So we must say that 0.9 recurring equals one.

please note that 0.9 (with ONE HUDERED TRILLION 9s)  is less than one but
0.9 with the 9's in an infinite string definatly equals 1.
\

[pianistimo]

well put, lostinidlewonder!  faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God - and you just said it.

[prometheus]

i understand what you are saying  9.9999999 is so infintesimally small of difference to 1

No. I said that we define them as both referring to the same number-concept. If they refer to a different number the difference should be expressed. That is what describing a number is about. If we have 9.990~ then one clearly describes the difference it has compared to 10.00~

Now you could argue that 9.99~ has to be smaller than 10.0~. But then you have to propose what this difference is. Because the way we define numbers today we define them as the same. It is an axiom.

The number concept we use is totally construced by humans. You cannot prove the number system. You can only prove things through the number system.

So, yes you could have an alternative system. But those people that claim 9.99~ and 10.0~ aren't mathematicians that propose another, in their view better, system. No, they just don't understand the current one.


As for the bible. The bible clearly claims that Pi is 3.0~, which is totally false. Therefore it lost all credibility on the issue of math.


You are right, faith is not an emotion. It is a delusion or a mental illness. But only when it is about God and when it is ritualised and practiced by groups it is accepted. Just like falling in love is an illness. Just like epileptic attacks are an illness.

All three can be very pleasing and rewarding experiences.

[johnny-boy]

I can't believe this argument is still going on. Does anyone really think there's going to be any resolution here? It just ain't gonna happen.

John

[steveie986]

I can't believe this argument is still going on. Does anyone really think there's going to be any resolution here? It just ain't gonna happen.

John

But there IS a resolution: your music stinks.

But I still love you. Talk about unconditional love!

[johnny-boy]

But there IS a resolution: your music stinks.

But I still love you. Talk about unconditional love!

Grow up steveie.

[steveie986]

Grow up steveie.

 

[bflatminor24]

I can't understand you blabbering religious idiots anymore. You constantly spin off on these tangents of no relevancy. Nobody sticks to the facts. All I read is nonsensical inanity and circular reasoning. Nobody accepts that .9bar = 1. To be honest, I don't really care. I thought I'd save the ignorant some embarrassment, but if they would rather continue believing a myth then that is their prerogative. All that matters is that I know the truth and that keeps me happy.

And I know convential courtesy on these fora says not to be personal, but pianistimo, your posts are so incredibly boring and poorly punctuated I can't read through them without a headache. Can't you learn the meaning of succinct? Save the cheerio analogies for totse.

I am too tired. 

~Max~

[pianistimo]

all i'm saying is that the average person (like me who isn't taking upper math classes) probably will not even understand the word axiom.  can i help it?  we look at 'whole numbers' and think they mean something.  really they are not even 'whole.'  they can be 'split hairs' numbers.  now what is so wrong about my thinking on that, bflatminor24?

[prometheus]

I don't think Bflatminor24's post was specifically about numbers and math but about your posts in general.

An axiom is a kind of assumption on which the rest is build. For example 1 + 1 = 2 is an axiom in some sence. Just like the whole concept of our decimal numeral system. Just like we express non-integers continueing after the dot.

There are many other ways to handle and use numbers. We use this system.

[pianistimo]

ok. 

[pion]

Consider moving horizontally through a distance of exactly 1 meter. To get to the 1 meter mark, you have to first get to the 1/2 way point. Then, in moving through the last 1/2 meter still left, you have to first get to the half way point. Then, in moving through the last 1/4 meter still left, you have to make it to the half way point. Then, in moving through the last 1/8 meter still left, you have to make it to the half way,  point etc., etc. Thus your journey through 1 meter consists of an infinite sequence of steps, each 1/2 the size of the previous one. Adding up all your steps in the 1 meter journey, one gets the result

1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + 1/16 + 1/32 + 1/64 + 1/128 + ... = 1

On the left of the = sign is an infinite (never ending) series, whose sum is exactly equal to 1, after all, you really CAN move through a distance of 1 meter! In exactly the same way

.9 + .09 + .009 + .0009 + .00009 + ... = 1

where on the left of the = sign is an infinite (never ending) series. This time your 1 meter journey consists a first step of .9 meters, and then each subsequent step is 1/10'th of the previous one. But the very DEFINTION of .9999... with the 9's never ending is just the sum of the preceding infinite series, that is,

.9999... = .9 + .09 + .009 + .0009 + .00009 + ...

by DEFINITION. Thus

.9999... = 1

[pianistimo]

it's a lot faster to just use one.  who came up with this idiocy.  mathematicians?

axiom = a meeting is no substitute for progress.

[johnny-boy]

.999... Will never end on its own! It never reaches “1”. In the same manner dividing a number in half to infinity will never reach “0”.

No, I haven't taken it out to a trillion digits yet, but I never knew of a number that rounds itself off. I do however understand the practicality in calling it 1. So round it off to one and we can forget about it.

It doesn’t take a mathematical genius with complex equations to solve this problem – just a little common sense will do it.

Best, John

[prometheus]

it's a lot faster to just use one.  who came up with this idiocy.  mathematicians?

So do you have an alternative. It isn't idiocy. It is obvious. When .999~ is smaller than one then there is something strange going on.

Just define a system where .999~ is smaller than 1. And then we can take a look and see how well that works.

[johnny-boy]

So in other words; if you can't define something, make something up.

John