Haw to wipeout America.

[da jake]

LOL. If tried to practice your own customs in Iran, you'd probably end up with fewer appendages.

[zheer]

As for Zheer, it isn't clear if he was born in the UK or not. Plus,

  I was born and bread in the Uk, but have never lived on British tax payers money, thus i now the British mentality rather well indeed.

[prometheus]

Yes, you are right. I am sorry. Only later I saw that you were actually talking about something else.

But it is not that strange that he wants to return to his own country, or that from his parents. The strange thing would be if he really wants the UK to be bombed.


Actually, I think that westerners are allowed to keep some of their own customs when they live in Iran. For example we hear about cruel Sharia laws. But they only apply to muslims. If  you aren't a mulsim then there are different laws.

As for Iran. Most iranians are opposed to the regulations that are put in place since most Iranians are also below 25. This is very different from Afghanistan. Iran is a lot more modern and western despite the regulations imposed by the theocracy. Also, the big cities, all around the world, are all very similar to each other. You will see the backward people in the rural areas. This is the same for every country, west, middle east, far-east, third world, you will see the same thing.

[johnny-boy]

 Almost everyone has been influenced by American ideology and Movies.

Yeah, the USA does make the best movies in the World.

John

[lisztisforkids]

 Almost everyone has been influenced by American ideology and Movies.

 Which are undoubtedly evil, oppresive, destructive, barbaric, malovent, unconsidering, idiotic. America can do no good huh?


 I for one am proud to be an American. I may not agree with my government, I may not say the pledge of alleignce, but when I see on the television a population united in the destruction of America, I feel like not only my country is threatend, but my way of life, me.  America seeks no nations or peoples destruction, but Al-Qaida and other groups like them not only wish to see America destroyed, but to change the world as they see fit.

 America will fight because America is threatend. The enemy is extreme militant Islam.  

 

[zheer]

  America will fight because America is threatend. The enemy is extreme militant Islam.  

  Thats true.

[BoliverAllmon]

Than why on earth do you support the state of Israel. Israel exists only because of the UN.

Hizbollah did never occupie Israel. Do you think that kidnapping 3 Israeli soldiers is the same as killing hundreds of civilian Lebanese people?'

Are you aware that Israel have 8000 palestians held in prision for no reason? Yes they kidnaped them.

ok maybe I should rephrase. The UN is a joke right now. I am not against an international community making international laws. The UN right now has no power. It isn't only the US vetoing things, but China and Russia do plenty of times as well. In fact they vetoed the resolutions pertaining to N. Korea.

can you point me to sources that show that 8000 palestinians are held in prison for no reason?

boliver

[living_stradivarius]

mephisto, if Hezbollah didn't act cowardly and hide in residential areas, then Lebanon would not have suffered such casualties. Such is the price when you do nothing about terrorists whom you harbor in your streets.
Unfortunate, but a message that will ring prominently for civilians in other areas harboring militant extremists.

Need I mention the history regarding Hezbollah's acts of terror on Israeli civilians?

What alternative approach would you have preferred Israel to have taken? Exchange known terrorists for the captured soldiers?

[mephisto]

What alternative approach would you have preferred Israel to have taken? Exchange known terrorists for the captured soldiers?

Let say me and you met on the street. We had our dissagrements. And becaus I was stronger than you(this has of course no basis in reality since I don`t know who you are) I would just have beaten you up?

I am no fan of Hizbollah but I understand perfectly why they did kidnapp the Israeli soldiers. They have symphaty with the Palestinians. EVERY DAY the Israeli goverment comitts crimes against humanity. Israel is basicly a racist state. Houses are demolished only because they are palestinian. A wall has been bould, wich separates families, and destroyes the land of many farmers. Pregnand women are stuck on the ceckh points, so that their child will die. This happens every day. Do you want the palestinians to do nothing. Yet again I will point out that before 1948(the year UN decided to create Israel) palestinians and jewhs lived together peacfully.

What amazes me is that nobody here seams to have been to Israel, yet you say many positive things about this state. I have been there, it is nothing like a democratic western state. It is a racist and terrorist-state, wich only goal is to make it even worse for palestinians.

Yes I do think that Israel should have exhanged their prisioners against those 3(!OMG that is leik soooo omg many) Israeli soldiers/terrorist on high-budget. As I said before Israel has thousand of Palestininas held in prision withnout no reason. Over a hundred of these are under the age of 18.

In 1967 my fathers home village Amoas(I am sure Boliver will remember that place from the Bilble) was destroyed was destroyed by Israeli soldiers and doesn`t exist anymore. How on earth can you support this!?

@boliver: https://web3.aftenbladet.no/utenriks/article312907.ece  It si norwegian, so maybe you don`t understand it.

[zheer]

  The bombing of Lebanon was the wrong thing to do , a cawrdly thing to do indeed.

[prometheus]

ok maybe I should rephrase. The UN is a joke right now. I am not against an international community making international laws. The UN right now has no power. It isn't only the US vetoing things, but China and Russia do plenty of times as well. In fact they vetoed the resolutions pertaining to N. Korea.

Yes. The majority of the american public want to get rid of veto rights in the SC. But did UN reforming turn up in the US presidential election? No one in the american government would ever be willing to give up the veto right. American voters need to force them. Do it. I mean, the people in Russia and China can't. And when people in the UK and France do the same. The only talk up till now has been to give more countries veto rights. For example, Japan, Brazil and South Africa becuase current day veto rights are just WWII victors.



As for the capturing of Israeli soldiers. The one done by hamas was a response to the capturing of two palestine civilians a few days before and the continous attacks on 'Gaza Prison'. Have you see the artillery shell Gaza as well? Hezbollah in south Lebanon have bunkers and positions. In gaza they are shelling slums. Anyway, there are many palestinian and lebanese people that have dissapeared and we also know many of them must be helf captive by Israel. Most of them are underaged or where when they were captured. Some have been imprisoned in 1982. Some months ago. Remember that Israel also captured Palestinian parlaiment members? Capturing civilians is nothing like capturing soldiers. Different international laws apply. Capturing soldiers is perfectly normal in the case of a conflict; which does exist between Hamas and Israel and not between Hezbollah and Israel but they joined in. No one said the UK had no right supporting the US attacking Afghanistan. NATO agreements said an attack on one is an attack all.
But to capture a civilian in a conflict is a war crime. Just like killing civilians is. No matter the excuse.

What alternative approach would you have preferred Israel to have taken? Exchange known terrorists for the captured soldiers?

They have done it before. So why not? They probably will end up doing this anyway.
Plus, after the war stops you release all your POWs. Even if you have 1 billion while your enemy has one. And even if you have lost.

As for Hezbollah killings during the 18 year occupation. My forefathers also killed innocent people in an attempt to stop the nazis. This is wrong and it is a war crime. But it happened. Yes, they should have been more careful. But it is nothing compared to the civilians that died because of Hitler and because of allied fire bombing of cities.
Israel killed many many civilians in Lebanon during the 18 year occupation. Hezbollah defeated the Israeli army. Hezbollah have a much better civilian-to-soldier rating than Israel has. Then and today.

I hope that when Israel leaves they have solved the hezbollah problem for the Lebanese people. But if they start an occupation all lebanese people, even those that hate Hezbollah as much as you and me, will need hezbollah as much as they needed it during the first occupation. Israel is turning the 'Hezbollah problem' into a 'hezbollah solution' while in the process 'turning Lebanons clock back 20 years' and killing many more civilians.

[BoliverAllmon]

Let say me and you met on the street. We had our dissagrements. And becaus I was stronger than you(this has of course no basis in reality since I don`t know who you are) I would just have beaten you up?

I am no fan of Hizbollah but I understand perfectly why they did kidnapp the Israeli soldiers. They have symphaty with the Palestinians. EVERY DAY the Israeli goverment comitts crimes against humanity. Israel is basicly a racist state. Houses are demolished only because they are palestinian. A wall has been bould, wich separates families, and destroyes the land of many farmers. Pregnand women are stuck on the ceckh points, so that their child will die. This happens every day. Do you want the palestinians to do nothing. Yet again I will point out that before 1948(the year UN decided to create Israel) palestinians and jewhs lived together peacfully.

What amazes me is that nobody here seams to have been to Israel, yet you say many positive things about this state. I have been there, it is nothing like a democratic western state. It is a racist and terrorist-state, wich only goal is to make it even worse for palestinians.

Yes I do think that Israel should have exhanged their prisioners against those 3(!OMG that is leik soooo omg many) Israeli soldiers/terrorist on high-budget. As I said before Israel has thousand of Palestininas held in prision withnout no reason. Over a hundred of these are under the age of 18.

In 1967 my fathers home village Amoas(I am sure Boliver will remember that place from the Bilble) was destroyed was destroyed by Israeli soldiers and doesn`t exist anymore. How on earth can you support this!?

@boliver: https://web3.aftenbladet.no/utenriks/article312907.ece  It si norwegian, so maybe you don`t understand it.

I think a major problem with all of this is the media, I don't really trust our media, it is very biased, but I can't trust aljazeer either. I am not sure what to believe.

I don't understand that Norweigian website, but I found others in english.

boliver

[mephisto]

Yes there is something wrong with a lot of media. Yet you talk about the middle-east as if you have actualy been there! Have you been there?

Funny how you doesn`t answer to any of the questions in my post...

[BoliverAllmon]

which questions? I am sorry I overlooked them.

I am not sure if Hezbollah has sympathy for the Palestinians. Hezbollah is another face for Iran. I think (just me) Iran prompted Hezbollah to start something to get the focus off of Iran and their nuclear program.

what Israeli crimes against humanity?

I can see the racism in Israel

prove the demolition of houses based on race.

How peacefully did they live? they have been fighting for 5,000 years.

I don't know Israel's reason for bombing the village so I can't say whether I support it or not.

[gilad]

Let say me and you met on the street. We had our dissagrements. And becaus I was stronger than you(this has of course no basis in reality since I don`t know who you are) I would just have beaten you up?

no, but if me and my five friends attacked you as the arab armies did israel in 1948 than maybe you would

I am no fan of Hizbollah but I understand perfectly why they did kidnapp the Israeli soldiers. They have symphaty with the Palestinians. EVERY DAY the Israeli goverment comitts crimes against humanity.

yes, this guy agrees with you apparently https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744017.html

Israel is basicly a racist state. Houses are demolished only because they are palestinian.

no it is because terrorist such as islamic jihad and hamas use those houses to fire into israel from, just as hizbullah are doing now.

A wall has been bould, wich separates families, and destroyes the land of many farmers.

because of the vast amount of walking bombs that were entering israel, since the wall went up there have "hardly been any"

Pregnand women are stuck on the ceckh points, so that their child will die. This happens every day. Do you want the palestinians to do nothing.

this sounds like BS to me, you are lying, i am sure of it. the reason the check points are there is once again because of walking bombs. israel has found bomb belts being transported in ambulances, and by 13 year old children, etc etc. women carry out bomb attacks too, and are permitted to in the hamas charter as well as in other terror groups.
 

Yet again I will point out that before 1948(the year UN decided to create Israel) palestinians and jewhs lived together peacfully.

not true, jews living in trukish and british palestine had to organise defense units around there villages and towns, because arabs used to attack them. after lord balfours declaration to give jews a homeland on a small part of their biblical land, the arabs started to organise riots and kill jews.

What amazes me is that nobody here seams to have been to Israel, yet you say many positive things about this state. I have been there, it is nothing like a democratic western state. It is a racist and terrorist-state, wich only goal is to make it even worse for palestinians.

you are a apparetnly supporter of anything that hamas and hizbullah do, i think this discredits anything you say.
i lived there for a year, my girlfriend at the time lived in east jerusalem, she was very pro palestinian, now she lives in haifa, behind the security wall. she is not jewish.

Yes I do think that Israel should have exhanged their prisioners against those 3(!OMG that is leik soooo omg many) Israeli soldiers/terrorist on high-budget. As I said before Israel has thousand of Palestininas held in prision withnout no reason. Over a hundred of these are under the age of 18.

isreal is currently holding 3 lebanese prisoners. one of them crossed into israel and murdered a family of 3 and a police officer. the other 2 i dont know. israel is fihgting a war against hizbullah and hamas and islamic jihad etc, they are two seperates wars. hamas and hizbullah are fighting a jihad, they see it as the same war. the prisoner issue on the one side should not be blended into the other side. as for the palestinian prisonders, who are treated like humans, im sure they were all carrying flowers and meesages of goodwill into israel when they got arrested .  unlike this old man here, and this young 18 year old, who might have been a settlers in the westbank, but that doesnt justify their fate, maybe to you it does..

https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1150885858552

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/743750.html  hamas' armed wing claimed this attack as they did for the other one too.

In 1967 my fathers home village Amoas(I am sure Boliver will remember that place from the Bilble) was destroyed was destroyed by Israeli soldiers and doesn`t exist anymore. How on earth can you support this!?

once again israels arab neighbours rise against her, once again israel brings them down. your father was living in amoas? that was in the west bank, which was at the time jordanian territory, palestinians in jordan would soon try topple the kingdom there. jordan attacked israel and unfortuantely your fathers village was destroyed, i am sorry to hear that, in ernst. i dont like seeing the destruction war brings in its midst.

[BoliverAllmon]

no, but if me and my five friends attacked you as the arab armies did israel in 1948 than maybe you would

this sounds like BS to me, you are lying, i am sure of it. the reason the check points are there is once again because of walking bombs. israel has found bomb belts being transported in ambulances, and by 13 year old children, etc etc. women carry out bomb attacks too, and are permitted to in the hamas charter as well as in other terror groups.
 
not true, jews living in trukish and british palestine had to organise defense units around there villages and towns, because arabs used to attack them. after lord balfours declaration to give jews a homeland on a small part of their biblical land, the arabs started to organise riots and kill jews.

good post

[mephisto]

Gilad from your post it is quite obvious to me, that you are nice guy or girl. And you seam to be against the murders of civilians. To proof this you show me internet-sites where civilian Israeli`s are killed. But are you aware that the Israeli goverment has killed a lot more palestinians compard to the death of Israeli`s(I am talking about thousands)?
 Naturally you who are against the murders of civilians would be much more against the state of Israel, than you are against Hamas.

The reason some of the arab states attacked Israel in 1948 was because they took a lot more land than the UN promised them. The creation of Israel is the only reason why there is problems now in the middle east.

The thing about pregnand women, is information I have found in these places: NRK(norways largest or 2nd largest televison channel, it is state owned), Dagbladet(norways 2nd largest newspaper), morgenbladet and BBC.

And belive me thousands of homes have been demolished to create kibutzez(sp?), not because Hamas-members have lived there.


Zionism is apartheid.

You speak of the jewhs before 1948 who had to fight and struggle. Those are not the jewhs who I am refeering to. Those jewhs were zionist, I am talking about those jewhs who never left Palestine in the diaspora.

And no I don`t support everything Hamas and Hizbollah does, because I am an atheist, and Hamas is not.

You talk about the murders of settlers. Those settlers are illigal, maybe I should settle down in your back-garden, you would of course love it.

[BoliverAllmon]

speaking of Zionism. America is not ran by zionist, our media is anti-Israel on alot of subjects. Even the Jews that are in govt. are anti-Israel.

boliver

[mephisto]

Even the Jews that are in govt. are anti-Israel.

boliver

I beg you pardon?

[gilad]

Gilad from your post it is quite obvious to me, that you are nice guy or girl. And you seam to be against the murders of civilians. To proof this you show me internet-sites where civilian Israeli`s are killed. But are you aware that the Israeli goverment has killed a lot more palestinians compard to the death of Israeli`s(I am talking about thousands)?
 Naturally you who are against the murders of civilians would be much more against the state of Israel, than you are against Hamas.

i honestly hate it when israel kills civilians who are not terrorists!!! it eats me up inside. yes around 1000 jews and 4000 palestinians. dont forget that many of those palestinians included in the death toll were terrorists, including suicide bombers believe it or not(maybe 100 hundred of those palestinians "killed" were suicide bombers). yes otherwise israel does a shocking job of "targeting" terror group members, they do target them, but are not careful enough about truely innocent civilians in the area at the time, as a result the headlines will read, "islamic jihad leader killed in rocket attack, 4 by standers died to" on the other hand these targeted killings arose to combat terror groups who consider children, women and old people to be legitamte targets for attacks. that is the difference, it is a shaky one morally, but still a difference. i myself email the israeli government to denounce any civilian deaths on the palestinian side, i have done this numerous times, who am i?? no one, but i still make my voice heard. a child is a child, a life is life.
would i prefer to see a bomber, bomb maker, gunman or rocket launcer kill 10 people on a bus in israel? or targeted before he enters israel and in the process killing palestian by standers. this is a question i dont find myself facing. the israeli government does, there duty is to their civilians, i can see why they might say it will be yours rather than ours.
i dont apporve of it, who can? but it is a reality. the economy of lives. terrible

The thing about pregnand women, is information I have found in these places: NRK(norways largest or 2nd largest televison channel, it is state owned), Dagbladet(norways 2nd largest newspaper), morgenbladet and BBC.

yes, i'm sure it has happened regretably. i cant say how frequently it has happened, i have no idea, but i wont exploit a lack of evidence like you have in saying it happens everyday and say it has only happened one or twice. facts are important, without them myths are created.

And belive me thousands of homes have been demolished to create kibutzez(sp?), not because Hamas-members have lived there.

i dont think there is one kibbutz in the west bank or gaza. there are settlements in the west bank, i'd like to see them come down( but than i think why, so they attack israel like they did after the gaza withdrawel? but i still would like to see them totally evacuated.),

Zionism is apartheid.

You speak of the jewhs before 1948 who had to fight and struggle. Those are not the jewhs who I am refeering to. Those jewhs were zionist, I am talking about those jewhs who never left Palestine in the diaspora.

you call zionism apratheid, yet when jews from europe legally joined(i'd say returned to) those who had always resided in palestine , they were targetted and hated, to the extent that muslim leaders joinind ranks with the nazis. the jews arriving wanted good relations with the arabs in the area, the arabs wanted nothing to do with the jews.

You talk about the murders of settlers. Those settlers are illigal, maybe I should settle down in your back-garden, you would of course love it.

those settlers are illegal, and should leave the west bank,  but i am talking about the brutality of the people that captured them, i am saying the punishment doesnt fit the crime. the pointless murders solve nothing and take a life away that could easily have been spared. when Palestinians show they are willing to recognise israel and stop using unnecessary violence i guarantee you there will be a way forward.
As for israel being the reason for the problems in the middle east? the middle east has a history of violence, arab on arab violence, shiite on sunni violence, muslims vs christians violence. arab on kurd violence.
present day iraq is a perfect example of this. so was the lebanese civil war.
you could say that today wherever there is muslim extremism there is violence. but that is a simplification of the situation, just as the one in which you say israel is the reason for problems in the middle east.

you also seem like a nice guy(;

[mephisto]

Nice to hear that there are some inntelligent answers form the "other side" instead of boliver, da jake and stevie`s mindless jibbering.

[prometheus]

yes, this guy agrees with you apparently https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744017.html

This is a regrettable discussion tactic.

no it is because terrorist such as islamic jihad and hamas use those houses to fire into israel from, just as hizbullah are doing now.

Gaza is one big slum prison. Yes, there is armed resistance from this slum prison. But Israel reacts by flattening large areas. Not just one building they know was used. For example, Israel always destroys all buildings of all familiy members of a suicide bomber, if they agree with what happened  or not. Often mothers are in greef for both their sons, what their sons did and the victims of their sun. But then they lose all their property as well.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3620836.stm
https://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/0B8E1585-9035-4BEC-A38F-4B58568EF966.htm
https://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/10/18/isrlpa9507.htm
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0305/S00253.htm
https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,758660,00.html
https://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/2003-10-30-robot-destruction_x.htm


So everytime Palestinians use violence, against Israel civilians or the IDF, they will destroy homes. Either at random of those of suspects but without any evidence or trial. No one knows how much homes have been destroyed.

Sometimes whole cities or refugee camps were destroyed:

https://www.zmag.org/content/Mideast/aljazeera_jenin_april6-2002.cfm
https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/comment/0,10551,685169,00.html
https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,688959,00.html

Buildings of the Palestinian government are destroyed as well:
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5175002.stm
https://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/DB3E3414-D9CE-455F-8169-93DA84D1EEEC.htm
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2278700.stm

because of the vast amount of walking bombs that were entering israel, since the wall went up there have "hardly been any"

This proves nothing. There are many reasons as to why there are less suicide bombings. Furtermore, it is irrelevant since the seperation wall/fence violates the green line and therefore annexes Palestinian land. It is totally illegal.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1258147,00.html
https://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/58D7B8C1-9760-48D4-8C45-F0BE08114190.htm
https://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150182004

Even if the wall stops all wars everywhere, it is illegal as it annexes land and should be destroyed. Then they can rebuild it on the border if they really want one.

this sounds like BS to me, you are lying, i am sure of it. the reason the check points are there is once again because of walking bombs. israel has found bomb belts being transported in ambulances, and by 13 year old children, etc etc. women carry out bomb attacks too, and are permitted to in the hamas charter as well as in other terror groups.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18597-2004Nov28.html
https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1361755,00.html

There is a documentary on checkpoints in Isreal. Its called Checkpoint by Tom Wright and Therese Saliba, 1997. (I think this is the one, there could me more docu's on checkpoints though).

Anyway, arab students are too late for lessons every day because they have to wait at checkpoints.

isreal is currently holding 3 lebanese prisoners.

Israel is holding up to hundreds to thousands of Lebanese prisoners. Many people have dissapeared. Israel either holds them prisoner or they have been killed by Israel long ago. Look at the demands Hamas and Hezbollah have been making the past few years. They demand the release of a large number of people.

https://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2006-06-30T231639Z_01_L30414807_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST-DEMANDS.xml

once again israels arab neighbours rise against her, once again israel brings them down.

Egypt supports Israel. So does Saudi Arabia and Jordan and some other minor arab countries. Things are very different than in 1948.


As for all those links trying to prove that Hamas and Hezbollah have killed people. No one is disputing that. It is not the point. The point it that some people are biased towards Israel. If there is one thing to learn from the conflict in the middle east is that you do not pick sides. If you do you are part of the conflict and then you feed it.


As for ethnic cleansing after Israel conquered territory in 1948. Yes, it happened. But I think we all agree on that. It also happened a long time ago and it falls under war crimes, just like starting the war was a war crime. So we don't have to discuss it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus

With these pages at wikipedia you have to read the talk-pages as well.

[gilad]

what is a regrerable tactic prom?? posting links? i quite like it.
mephisto, i agree, it is great to be able to discuss such matters.
a close arab friend of mine in israel always used to say, me, you, arafat, barak and clinton must all sit down, smoke some hash and talk. then we can make peace.
i agree. been a pleasure conversing with you.

[prometheus]

No, you were insinuating that Mephisto agreed with the guy that shot at the jewish community center, killing one and wounding some others.


Actually, there is an unofficial peace treaty created by Israeli politician Yossi Beilin, one of the architects of the Oslo accords, and former Palestinian Authority minister Yasser Abed Rabbo.. It was backed by Arafat, Israeli opposition member Peres and ex-president Carter. But Israeli hawks viewed this as treason eventhough it does allow Israel to annex territory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Accord
https://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2003-12-01-mideast-geneva_x.htm
https://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,1062723,00.html

[pianistimo]

prove egypt, saudi arabia, and jordan support israel now.  they don't dare.  their constituents wouldn't let them even if they wanted to.  i think jordan's leader is a very wise and compassionate man - but i think that because his last name is also hussein - he is not going to be able to maintain peace as he has so excellently done all these years.  if arafat was part egyptian (or fully) and also a leader of the palestians - i don't think he was trying to convince egypt to be on the other side. 

what i think is probably true is that the jews and the tribe of judah are only one of the twelve tribes of israel that were dispersed into the population during the various captivities and also after Christ during the roman persecutions.  people who think they have nothing in common with the jewish state and lands - may end up being people who have carried the bible to many places in europe, britan, ireland, scotland, and the usa.  not to mention many in the eastern countries as well. 

abraham was the 'father of many nations.'  the arab nations through ishmael and the european nations and english speaking nations through issac.  i think it's fairly hilarious after all these years of infighting to realize that all along we should have been one happy family and rooted for each other.  those that hate jews nowdays would be fairly shocked to find out that perhaps one of the other twelve tribes is their own ancestors.  jewish people weren't the only ones that were part of israel.  the prophets tell of the NATIONS of ephraim and manassah and how they will become part of a 'captivity' again - to a world system.  that God will look away for some moments because of their turning away from God to 'harlotry' or other ways of worship. 

now, with dna testing, it is quite possible to not only trace jewish ancestry but also the ancestry of all peoples.  i would be quite interested to find out (just as with archeological finds that are not always in the news) the truth of the matter.  recently, a middle ages period book of psalms was uncovered in the british isles (not sure if it was scotland) and it was opened to a page that was talking about the nations surrounding israel and how they wished for it's destruction.  this jealousy started because of the blessings from God on all nations that carried the bible and the message of the gospel to the world.  this is what i believe.

[mephisto]

pianistimo do you know that there are palestinian that look exactly like the members of Hamas that are christian?

[pianistimo]

that is exactly the problem.  i heard a joke on the radio today - but i think it is really a serious problem.  the terrorists want to join in with civilians whether they are christian or muslim or whatever - but they also want to do away with christianity altogether.  it is a stated aim.  they don't really provide protection to the christian elements of palestine necessarily.  they are thugs.  arafat let them become that way.  he epitomizes saying 'peace' and meaning war.  war against israel, christianity, and usa.

[prometheus]

prove egypt, saudi arabia, and jordan support israel now.

Haven't you been watching the news?

https://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/middleeast/2006/July/middleeast_July249.xml&section=middleeast
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/13072006/325/saudi-arabia-blames-hizbollah-lebanon-crisis.html
https://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060714/wl_mideast_afp/mideastunrestegypt_060714171944
https://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/spiegel/0,1518,427791,00.html
https://www.nysun.com/article/36373
https://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-2276414,00.html

Again, shi'ites and sunnis. Political analysts and arab world experts have been pointing all this out for two weeks straight now.

[pianistimo]

but do they do anything to stop it?  no.  they are complicit by saying one thing to sound good.  the egyptian muslim's pledged 'solidarity.'  when it comes to fighting the usa and israel, they are together.

there's prophecies of not only jews returning to israel - but ALL israel returning.  jer. 23:7-8  'therefore, behold, the days are coming,' declares the Lord, 'when they will no longer say, 'as the Lord lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt.' but, 'As the Lord lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from ALL THE COUNTRIES where I had driven them.'  then they will live on their own soil.

(the soil that God had given israel as an inheritance forever).

[prometheus]

but do they do anything to stop it?  no.  they are complicit by saying one thing to sound good.

Uuh, should they intervine unilaterally? Isn't the whole world community trying to reach an agreement? While UK&France launch their plan you want Saudi Arabia and Egypt to send troops to the region stopping the fighting? How is that possible? Doesn't need Israel and Hezhollah need to sign a cease fire first? If they don't then Saudi and Egypt forced need to attack both Israel and Hezbollah. Imagine Saudi Arabia and Egypt starting to shoot down Israeli planes over Lebanon. Or bombing the Artillary on  the Israeli side of the border.  Israel will react by destroying Saudi Arabian air force and infrastructure. Oil price would sky rocket. The US has to pick between their two huge allies, etc etc.

Have you any sense of feeling about this conflict at all? The first thing that needs to happen is that the US has to say 'stop' to Israel. That is what Blair is trying to get accomplished. Israel is trying to kill off as many hezbollah before they are stopped by the US. Now SA can put pressure on the US as well. They have done so before, stopping the Siege on Ramallah by telling the US to tell Israel to stop.

But at this point the US is blocking any agreement. What can Saudi Arabia and Egypt do? Let alone what Jordan and Qatar can do? Maybe Qatar should expell the military bases of the US, essential for the conflict in Iraq, in an attempt to force them to stop blocking the UN process?

You have got to be kidding.

[pianistimo]

agreed that it seems a hopeless situation.  it's like two children of a family fighting.  the parent's won't let them kill each other - but don't intervene enough for one or the other to get hurt.  agreed.  condaleeza rice has many good points - but unless israel listens to her - they will be fulfilling their own agenda.  then egypt and saudi arabia, iran, turkey, syria - will all be like gangstas.  the united nations join in and voila - armageddon.  and, since the bible also mentions nations from the east (i don't doubt the entire world - all the nations - will gather for battle).  it was prophecied so it's no surprise.

[prometheus]

Of course Israel needs to listen. All the bombs dropped on Lebanon are american bombs, dropped by american planes, rockets launched by american helicopters.

Condi said that there should not be a cease fire until there is a good plan to disarm Hezbollah. Thus the killing needs to continue. They blocked the UN condemning Israel for attacking civilians and UN posts.

Armaggeddon!? Get mental help. Now! Stop reading the bible and start watching the news.

[pianistimo]

jer. 25: 17 - 'then i took the cup from the Lord's hand, and made all the nations drink...pharoah king of egypt, his servants, his princes, and all his people - and all the foreign people, al the kings of the land of uz, all the kings of the land of the philstines, (even ashkelon, gaza, ekron, ashdod); edom, moab, and the sons of ammon (jordan); and all the kings of tyre (iraq), all the kings of sidon, and the kings of the coastlands which are beyond the sea; and dedan, tema, buz,  (eastern - cutting the corners of their hair); and all the kings of arabia and all the kings of the foreign people who dwell in the desert; and all the kings of zimri, all the kings of elam, and all the kings of media, and all the kings of the north near and far, one with another; and ALL THE KINGDOMS OF THE EARTH which are upon the face of the ground...

and you shall say to them, 'thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel, 'drink, be drunk, vomit, fall, and rise no more because of the sword which i will send among you....for behold i am beginning to work calamity in this city which is called by My name, and shall you be completely free from punishment?  ...I am summoning a sword against all the inhabitants of the earth...evil is going forth from nation to nation, and a great storm is being stirred up from the remotest parts of the earth.  and those slain by the Lord on that day shall be from one end of the earth to the other.'

[pianistimo]

mental help is needed for those who don't read the bible and rely on weapons.  they will see that God will intervene for Jerusalem and Israel.

[zheer]

mental help is needed for those who don't read the bible and rely on weapons.  they will see that God will intervene for Jerusalem and Israel.

  Not true i dont read religious text nor rely on weapons, but still need mental help on a regular bases.

[prometheus]

As long as god does not violate international law...

[quasimodo]

Pianistimo strikes arain heh  ?

[thalbergmad]

mental help is needed for those who don't read the bible and rely on weapons.  they will see that God will intervene for Jerusalem and Israel.

Well, he had better get a move on then.

Thal

[johnny-boy]

Getting back to  “Haw to wipeout America”, I find the bashing of the USA to be amusing – as if there are any other countries better than the USA.

The World’s full of bloody dictators suppressing their citizen slaves – why not bash those countries.

Socialism is a dead horse – it just doesn’t work – and it sure as hell won’t work with a free spirited soul. People need to have the financial rewards from his/her labor (for incentive) – not being forced to give it “to each according to his needs”.

It truly is “The Age of Envy”. When a person (or country) can’t achieve another person’s (or country’s) greatness the only course of action to find peace of mind in their failure is trying to denigrate the achievers – as in this case, convince themselves the achievers are evil.

So eat your heart out – and enjoy your lack of freedom. We have many problems in the USA (as well as every other country), but I’d never want to give up the freedom I have here.

Without freedom there’s nothing - and that's the mindset of an American!

John

[mephisto]

Getting back to  “Haw to wipeout America”, I find the bashing of the USA to be amusing – as if there are any other countries better than the USA.

if one should trust the UN, than Norway is a better country. At least three times in a row Norway has been elected as the worlds best country to live in.

[prometheus]

Johnny, your post is also a bit laughable since the US supports the supressing of freedom in other countries.

Also, I live in a country with a political system that is more democratic than that in the US. The press here also has less self-censorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indices_of_freedom

US doesn't score 'good situation' but 'satisfactory situation'. My country does score 'good situation'. As does norway. But their economic freedom is 'mostly free' instead of 'free' that the US and Netherlands do have.

As for Israel. It scores two times green. So minus 2. Zheer's UK is all good too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders

Netherlands shares no.1 with Norway. UK is No.24. US scores No.44. Just as Italy, who are famous for their lack of press freedom. Bolivia is No.45.  Israel is No.47. Countries like Benin and Namibia score better. As well as South Africa, well done. El Salvador also scores quite well.

Look at the big US allies: Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, as well as their products Iraq and Afghanistan.

And here the UN's Human Development index: https://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf

Mephisto lives in the most pleasant country in the world, according to statistics; Norway scores no.1

US is no.10, not bad, but laugable if you consider its potential; the resources, the lack of war on its own soil, being the only superpower, the size, etc.
Netherlands is no.12. I know we scored higher a while ago. I guess it is the right wing conservative government. UK is no.15, Israel is no.23. But South Africa is No.120. Palestine scores No.102, thanks to Israel. Lebanon is No.81 but surely it is going to drop on the next list thanks to Israel as well.
As for the US allies and the countries that were invaded by the US, look for yourself. Like I said before Haiti and Nicaragua score very poor. Same for Iraq.

Of course the big suprise is Cuba. Scoring very very low in press freedom and civil rights as well, but I don't have an index of that. But eventhough being in economic war with its huge neighbour, the only superpower in the world, for 60 years straight and using the 'worst system in the world' dictatorship communism, it does pretty well and nears the western countries. You have got to wonder if Cuba would have been just above or just below Haiti if JFK's invasion of Cuba had succeded.

So why should envy who?

[lisztisforkids]

Condi said that there should not be a cease fire until there is a good plan to disarm Hezbollah. Thus the killing needs to continue.

 Why should Israel stop its offensive against Hizbollah? Ofcourse innocent people are dying, this is a war. A war of destruction, who do you want to win? Israel or Hizbollah? Lets think.. If Isareal destroys Hizbollah thats the end of the matter if Hizbollah wins.... Well... There can be no peace while the two exist. For the interest of the inoocent and the middle east Hizbollah and other similar radical groups should disarm and renounce its war on Israel, then and only then can peace be sincerly negotiated.

Israel seeks no nation or peoples destruction while Hizbollah and Hamas do, this is the difference between the two.  

If Hizbollah and the rest of the middle east is really concerned for the plight of the Lebonese then Hizbollah would renounce its dictatium of the destruction of Israel.  

 If the UN cared they would also forcefully disarm ALL radical groups that threaten the stability of the Mideast..

[zheer]

 Quote " we are a nation of freedom and liberty " Look johnny-boy am sure most americans are convinced of their own greatness, calle it an over inflated ego, or a sense of superirority. " the Age of Envy " please dont make us vomit, Envy what exactly, the way you screw other nations, or the way bully other nations into believing that indeed America is rightfull owner of planet earth.

[lisztisforkids]

Johnny, your post is also a bit laughable since the US supports the supressing of freedom in other countries.

Also, I live in a country with a political system that is more democratic than that in the US. The press here also has less self-censorship.

 Yes.. Ignore the fact that Afghan women can go outside without wearing a veil.

 You said yourself that your country is the highest in the world for wiretappings, and that you have to carry an ID card at all times on you...

[lisztisforkids]

Quote " we are a nation of freedom and liberty " Look johnny-boy am sure most americans are convinced of their own greatness, calle it an over inflated ego, or a sense of superirority. " the Age of Envy " please dont make us vomit, Envy what exactly, the way you screw other nations, or the way bully other nations into believing that indeed America is rightfull owner of planet earth.

 
 You disgust me. There are very few people that are as biased as you. You are sure that most Americans have a ego? You have never even been to America, geez... There is a reason America is the most powerful economically, politicaly and militarly..... But I dont have a ego, its the truth.

[BoliverAllmon]

I beg you pardon?

Many Democratic Jews that are in the US govt. tend to have anti-Israeli points of view.

boliver

[mephisto]

Yes.. Ignore the fact that Afghan women can go outside without wearing a veil.

It is a cultural difference. Afghan womane still uses a burka, even though they are allowed to do something else.

[BoliverAllmon]

Johnny, your post is also a bit laughable since the US supports the supressing of freedom in other countries.

Also, I live in a country with a political system that is more democratic than that in the US. The press here also has less self-censorship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_indices_of_freedom

US doesn't score 'good situation' but 'satisfactory situation'. My country does score 'good situation'. As does norway. But their economic freedom is 'mostly free' instead of 'free' that the US and Netherlands do have.

As for Israel. It scores two times green. So minus 2. Zheer's UK is all good too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reporters_Without_Borders

Netherlands shares no.1 with Norway. UK is No.24. US scores No.44. Just as Italy, who are famous for their lack of press freedom. Bolivia is No.45.  Israel is No.47. Countries like Benin and Namibia score better. As well as South Africa, well done. El Salvador also scores quite well.

Look at the big US allies: Turkey, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, as well as their products Iraq and Afghanistan.

And here the UN's Human Development index: https://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2005/pdf/HDR05_HDI.pdf

Mephisto lives in the most pleasant country in the world, according to statistics; Norway scores no.1

US is no.10, not bad, but laugable if you consider its potential; the resources, the lack of war on its own soil, being the only superpower, the size, etc.
Netherlands is no.12. I know we scored higher a while ago. I guess it is the right wing conservative government. UK is no.15, Israel is no.23. But South Africa is No.120. Palestine scores No.102, thanks to Israel. Lebanon is No.81 but surely it is going to drop on the next list thanks to Israel as well.
As for the US allies and the countries that were invaded by the US, look for yourself. Like I said before Haiti and Nicaragua score very poor. Same for Iraq.

Of course the big suprise is Cuba. Scoring very very low in press freedom and civil rights as well, but I don't have an index of that. But eventhough being in economic war with its huge neighbour, the only superpower in the world, for 60 years straight and using the 'worst system in the world' dictatorship communism, it does pretty well and nears the western countries. You have got to wonder if Cuba would have been just above or just below Haiti if JFK's invasion of Cuba had succeded.

So why should envy who?

who came up with these numbers?

[prometheus]

About Hezbollah disarmament. The UN adopted a resolution calling for Hezbollah disarmament in 2004, resolution 1559. The question is how Hezbollah needs to be disarmed since it doesn't happen naturally. One would think the task would be fore the Lebanese army. But they don't have a real army. Only a while ago most troops in Lebanon were Syrian troops. But now they are withdrawn and Lebanese politicians have been trying to get Hezbollah disarmed or absorbed into the army, which would also be acceptable according to 1559.

Israel tried to destroy Hezbollah for 18 years during the invasion and occupation of Lebanon. They failed. Now they are trying again. For five days the IDF tried to capture Bint Jbeil, defended by 100 to 200 Hezbollah militia according to the IDF. They withdrawed after substaining 9 casulties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bint_Jbeil

Then Israeli politicians and military leaders clashed over the tactics to use. Defence analysts critisized the Israeli government. Some called for a new occupation.


So how is the UN going to disarm Hezbollah? The UN has no army of itself. If you have actually been following the diplomacy they are trying to get Israel and Lebanon to agree to a NATO led operation. Who will provide the troops is unclear. But non-NATO nations will join in. We may see Turkish, Egyptian and east asia troops, Indian, Chinese etc, to make up this armed force. But we will have to see what is going to happen. It is sure there will be no american troops nor blue helmets disarming Hezbollah.

But first the US is giving Israel a 'free hand' while the rest of the world claims to be outraged.

Yes.. Ignore the fact that Afghan women can go outside without wearing a veil.
 

This is laughable. Do you know how many afghan woman are still wearing Burqa's? Very very little has changed in terms of womans rights. Even female western journalists are still wearing veils. As of Saudi Arabia, US ally, woman are forced to do the same thing.




As for those numbers. The HDI is made by UN's United Nations Development Programme.

The one about press freedom is made by journalists united under Reporters without borders.

List of indices of freedom, it's all on that wiki page.

    * Freedom in the World published by Freedom House ranks countries by political rights and civil liberties that are derived in large measure from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Countries are assessed as free, partly free, or unfree.
    * The Index of Economic Freedom is an annual report published by The Wall Street Journal and the Heritage Foundation. Countries are assessed as free, mostly free, mostly unfree, and unfree.
    * The Economic Freedom of the World Index is a report published by the Fraser Institute. It is a numeric index and its results are not (yet) included in the table below.
    * Worldwide Press Freedom Index is published by Reporters Without Borders. Countries are assessed as having a good situation, a satisfactory situation, noticeable problems, a difficult situation, or a very serious situation.

[BoliverAllmon]

why no american troops disarming hezbollah? according to you and many others america is always in everyone's business and "terrorizes everyone with military might"