Species Counterpoint

[mcgillcomposer]

now, mcgillcomposer, given the set of notes that you gave for the cantus firmus - what is the best note combination for the climax with the A bass note 1/2 way through?  what note is the farthest away (and not over an octave) that would best represent a climax.  this note is, i gather, the one that is probably going to be the highest if it is written for the soprano voice against alto.

There is nothing wrong with a spacing that is over an octave, as long as it is not like that all the way through.

For the high A (in the bass) there are quite a few possibilites: C (a 3rd or 10th above), E (5th and MAYBE a 12th above, depending on the rest of the line), F (a 6th above), A (an 8ve above)

Re: which one is best...well, it honestly depends on the rest of the line. For example, someone had an open fifth on the climax, but had used 3rds and 6ths the rest of the time. This is a nice way to highlight the climax (a new sound quality). However, this is not necessary, it is just a nice artistic touch.

BTW, counterpoint, as pedantic as you find this, I have said things that you won't find in a standard counterpoint text. In other words, I've suggested a lot more than simply following "rules".

[mcgillcomposer]

Alright, let's try something in the minor mode. This should allow a larger set of possibilities due to all of the modal inflections available.

New cantus firmus:


A up E up F down E down D up E down C down B down A

Same things apply: transpose at will, and write your line above or below.

[pianistimo]

ok.  key of a minor.  all the chords would be:  i ii dim  III aug  iv  v  VI and vii dim     now - if we want to highlight a major sound at the climax - we could use either V or VI and III aug would be very unusual sounding, right?  now, if we considered tonal centers unimportant - we would probably highlight the V as major instead of minor?  using the G# or sharp 7th - we could also add it into places and then take it away - (as with the major V) since minor scales can be natural, harmonic and melodic.  in fact, adding an occasional sharped sixth would be ok right? F#?

do you consider the F the climax merely as it is the highest note - or is E the climax - being in the middle?

[mcgillcomposer]

ok.  key of a minor.  all the chords would be:  i ii dim  III aug  iv  v  VI and vii dim     now - if we want to highlight a major sound at the climax - we could use either V or VI and III aug would be very unusual sounding, right?  now, if we considered tonal centers important - we would probably highlight the V as major instead of minor?

This line isn't really well-suited to a colour change at the climax because it occurs so early in the line (there is nothing to compare it with yet!). There is also the unique feature of this line that the F can be treated EITHER as a climax or as a neighbour note to a longer climax on the E. The climax in any small piece like this isn't that important either...don't get too caught up on what I said about the other exercise...it was simply a nice touch that I thought I would comment the author on.

Re: the chords...with modal inflections there is a lot more available to you than you've mentioned above. A common modal inflection is major VII...G B natural D.

[pianistimo]

major VII huh? ok.  that would be on the raised G# ?   so G# B# D#?  or the natural 'mode' GBD?  i guess the latter because we aren't raising the seventh in the cantus firmus.  (no B# or D# there).

one thing that is a bit unsettling to me is that we are attempting to pair alto/sop or bass/tenor and that does not give us a full idea of the chord pattern we are following.  can we just go back to full SATB?  that way i can fully state my chord progressions.

also, i'm confused because i thought fux and people like him started first with cantus firmus firmly rooted in the bass for quite some time.  it gives students the feeling that there's something solid that's going to stay the same for a while.  if it were me - i'd keep it there and only move it the following week to the tenor line - and so forth.

and, i thought the next line is automatically the alto or soprano (to compose) - although mozart and many others didn't waste time and just produced the entire SATB all at once.  now bach - because of so much counterpoint - was thinking laterally many times.  especially with the fugues (but he still had to make sure they worked vertically).

if i were teaching a course like this - the first thing i would point out is the 'balance' one is striving for between lateral and vertical.

[mcgillcomposer]

major VII huh? ok.  that would be on the raised G# ?   so G# B# D#?  or the natural 'mode' GBD?  i guess the latter because we aren't raising the seventh in the cantus firmus.  (no B# or D# there).

Right...major VII as in major triad...not #VII 

[pianistimo]

but, the root of the VII in a minor key is sharped.  perhaps the keyword is minor mode vs minor key.  students will need to understand that.

so - not remembering off the top of my head - which mode is A-A  - plagal mode of hypodorian.  W 1/2 WW 1/2 WW

[mcgillcomposer]

but, the root of the VII in a minor key is sharped.

Then it would be written viio

This is only the case in the harmonic and melodic minor version of the scale. The natural minor has a G natural and has a major chord built on this 7th scale degree. We notate this VII.

[pianistimo]

yes - but adding more major chords to a minor mode/key will make it sound more interesting, right?  especially at peak points such as the climax?

now, back to the two ideas. you are saying that a seventh in a MINOR KEY = vii o

but, MINOR MODE = anything you want?  the minor modes, to you, mean the addition of harmonic and melodic modes?  so sharping the seventh would be ok in a mode but not in minor key?

we assume from the cantus firmus that this is in the natural minor key of a.  we could call it the hypodorian mode. 

but, first before the students go to work - they must figure all the chords in each mode:

dorian, phyrigian, lydian, mixolydian

hypodorian, hypophrygian, hypolydian, hypomixolydian

that means - they have to memorize the pattern of whole and 1/2 steps in each and then write chords above to know the choices.


then, there is the problem that we get into with mixing modes.  some composers actually mix keys with modes - but pick other tonal centers than the obvious one.  and some mix several modes at once.  randomly picking two that would give the most chordal choices.

[mcgillcomposer]

yes - but adding more major chords to a minor mode/key will make it sound more interesting, right?  especially at peak points such as the climax?

now, back to the two ideas. you are saying that a seventh in a MINOR KEY = vii o

but, MINOR MODE = anything you want?  the minor modes, to you, mean the addition of harmonic and melodic modes?  so sharping the seventh would be ok in a mode but not in minor key?

we assume from the cantus firmus that this is in the natural minor key of a.  we could call it the hypodorian mode. 

but, first before the students go to work - they must figure all the chords in each mode:

dorian, phyrigian, lydian, mixolydian

hypodorian, hypophrygian, hypolydian, hypomixolydian

that means - they have to memorize the pattern of whole and 1/2 steps in each and then write chords above to know the choices.

Haha...I love your posts.

Just stick with standard modal inflections for now...don't get all hypo on me yet

[pianistimo]

standard modal inflections = a b c d e f g a  and combinations of only those notes?  no accidentals?  that means the peak is E.  no real climax there on minor v.