Question for Nils

[m]

Hi Nils,

I am wondering if antisemitic/racist remarks are allowed on this board, specifically by user IngaGroznaya, found in this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25572.0.html

I am wondering what you intend to do about this case?

Please let me know, as my farther participation on this board will depend on your answer.

Thanks, M

[rimv2]

Hi Nils,

I am wondering if antisemitic/racist remarks are allowed on this board, specifically by user InnaGroznaya, found in this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25572.0.html

I am wondering what you intend to do about this case?

Please let me know, as my farther participation on this board will depend on your answer.

Thanks, M

Doesn't really seem like something so bad. The person wants knowledge from a Russian teacher. A real russion teacher. With a backwards R. More like over zealous fanaticism rather than antisemitism.

Ah mean there's some obvious ignorance, but ah wouldn't call it racist. (coming from someone who knows  a lot of it)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;u=10413;sa=showPosts

From what ahve read here, it's nothing more than an individual with an aggressive personality.

But ah haven't read it all. Ah might have missed something.

Just relax man

[m]

Doesn't really seem like something so bad. The person wants knowledge from a Russian teacher. A real russion teacher. With a backwards R. More like over zealous fanaticism rather than antisemitism.

Tell me that!

The backward "R" in Russian is "me", or "myself", or "identity", i.e. read her sentence as:

"Someone with clear identity--not Jewish, but Russian. Is it too much to ask?"

I and thousands other Russian-Jews even as kids learnt about those things still in kindergarten and felt every second of our life in Russia and smell this stink from miles away... about the same as African-Americans did in US during segregation and I am sure, still do...

She is a Russian herself and teaches piano and obviously she is not seeking knowledge from a Russian teacher, esp. when she distinguishes Russian teachers from Jewish ones and implies that Jewish even have not discovered themselves and just want to sell something.

In the context of the well known fact that MANY if not the most of Russian piano teachers were Jews, it is absolutely obvious, she is intentionally making antisemitic and racist remarks and perfectly aware of it.

Please also refer to my two replies in aforementioned thread.

With all due respect, you are clearly missing the whole point, so please Rimv2, don't offer me to relax.

[jlh]

Are there any Russian teachers here?

Not racist at this point.  Perhaps she just wants to learn from the Russian School?


Anyone who is not new to teaching and without something to sell? Someone who is not just discovering them selfs? Someone with clear "Я". Someone not Jewish, but Russian. Is it too much to ask?

Here's where it gets sticky.  By singling out Jews in this context, she has made the following statements:

1) Jews are new to teaching
2) Jews are only trying to sell something
3) Jews are trying to discover themselves
4) Jews don't have an identity


Also, there is the glint of implying that Jewish people are inferior to Russian people.

[rimv2]

Tell me that!

The backward "R" in Russian is "me", or "myself", or "identity", i.e. read her sentence as:

"Someone with clear identity--not Jewish, but Russian. Is it too much to ask?"

I and thousands other Russian-Jews even as kids learnt about those things still in kindergarten and felt every second of our life in Russia and smell this stink from miles away... about the same as African-Americans did in US during segregation and I am sure, still do...

She is a Russian herself and teaches piano and obviously she is not seeking knowledge from a Russian teacher, esp. when she distinguishes Russian teachers from Jewish ones and implies that Jewish even have not discovered themselves and just want to sell something.

In the context of the well known fact that MANY if not the most of Russian piano teachers were Jews, it is absolutely obvious, she is intentionally making antisemitic and racist remarks and perfectly aware of it.

Please also refer to my two replies in aforementioned thread.

With all due respect, you are clearly missing the whole point, so please Rimv2, don't offer me to relax.

As ahve said is possible. But, if she is what you believe she is, why give so much importance where it's clearly not deserved. Nothing can be done to change the fact she exists. All you've done by becoming upset is surrendered your power. Her post doesn't make you a victim. Your response, however, does.

Observe it and move on. Don't let someone else ruin your experience here. And if she really is as bad as it seems, it will inevitably be dealt with.

So please, do try to relax.

[m]

As ahve said is possible. But, if she is what you believe she is, why give so much importance where it's clearly not deserved. Nothing can be done to change the fact she exists. All you've done by becoming upset is surrendered your power. Her post doesn't make you a victim. Your response, however, does.

Observe it and move on. Don't let someone else ruin your experience here. And if she really is as bad as it seems, it will inevitably be dealt with.

So please, do try to relax.

Dear Rimv2,

You are clearly missing the point of my initial message, which is not about her. She as a person for me does not exist.
The main point is I am neither going to post nor share my knowledge, expertise, and time on a forum where antisemitism (i.e. one of the forms of racism) is allowed. I think I was pretty clear about my reasons.

That is why I asked Nils for his intentions regarding this matter.

Should he deside that everything is alright and nothing has happened, then no biggie--I will just ask him to ban me and remove all my details from forums database and everything will be nice and cool.

I understand your concern, but please do me a favor and spare your relaxation offers for better ocasions.

Thank you for your understanding.

Best, M

[nilsjohan]

Hi Nils,

I am wondering if antisemitic/racist remarks are allowed on this board, specifically by user IngaGroznaya, found in this thread:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,25572.0.html

I am wondering what you intend to do about this case?

Please let me know, as my farther participation on this board will depend on your answer.

Thanks, M

Antisemitic/racist remarks are not allowed and the post has been removed.

Please use the "report to moderator" link instead of replying when you come across posts you consider is breaking the rules.

[opus10no2]

Racism should have a voice.

Sweeping something under the carpet won't make it go away, it will fester and creep up on you, most likely from behind.

[rimv2]

Racism should have a voice.

Sweeping something under the carpet won't make it go away, it will fester and creep up on you, most likely from behind.

That's not the intent of my message.

This individual based his/her entire participation at this forum on the remark of a person who is clearly ignorant.

Yes report it.

NO. Don't leave because of it.

Sometimes it seems like Ahm speakin spanish

Ah guess Ahm doing better as Ah haven't yet gone into a discussion about the existence of race

[nicco]

Try saying "I" instead. That doesent make you look like a moron.

[rimv2]

Try saying "I" instead. That doesent make you look like a moron.

Ah could analyze your improper grammar but instead ah will say...


Bite meh

[soliloquy]

No.  She's obviously asking for someone who will teach in the true, strict Russian School.  Not just a person with a Russian-Jewish last name.


She would have been advised to have worded it:


Not just a Russian-Jew, but a TRUE Russian.  Or something along those lines.  Although I think she could have really just left the whole "Jew" thing out of it.

[ramseytheii]

No.  She's obviously asking for someone who will teach in the true, strict Russian School.  Not just a person with a Russian-Jewish last name.

Sounds like a naive plea for "racial purity?"

She would have been advised to have worded it:


Not just a Russian-Jew, but a TRUE Russian.  Or something along those lines.  Although I think she could have really just left the whole "Jew" thing out of it.

Somehow that's just as bad!

Walter Ramsey

[soliloquy]

Yeah I really think she should have left out the "jew" part, but I think people are getting way too worked up about a poorly chosen set of words to describe something completely harmless.

[jakev2.0]

Anyone who is not new to teaching and without something to sell? Someone who is not just discovering them selfs? Someone with clear "Я". Someone not Jewish, but Russian. Is it too much to ask?

I see that anti-semitism is still alive and well in the 21st century!  This post suggests that Jews place business over their teaching responsibilities, and that Russian teachers have higher ethical standards - a rather disgraceful comment.

[jlh]

Yeah I really think she should have left out the "jew" part, but I think people are getting way too worked up about a poorly chosen set of words to describe something completely harmless.

You may be right.  You may be wrong. 

We may never know...

[ramseytheii]

I see that anti-semitism is still alive and well in the 21st century!  This post suggests that Jews place business over their teaching responsibilities, and that Russian teachers have higher ethical standards - a rather disgraceful comment.

Not to mention the idea that a "russian" can't be Jewish.  This is a most barbaric idea, adapted by Europeans of all stripes, that saw its hey-day 60 years ago, if you know what I mean.   Let's all agree to give it a rest.

Walter Ramsey

[rimv2]

I see that anti-semitism is still alive and well in the 21st century!  This post suggests that Jews place business over their teaching responsibilities, and that Russian teachers have higher ethical standards - a rather disgraceful comment.

See ah thought it meant something different

Anyone who is not new to teaching and without something to sell?

No new teachers, and no teachers with gimmicks to sell

Someone who is not just discovering them selfs?

Someone with a refined technique rather one developing and understanding

Someone with clear "Я".

Someone, European

Someone not Jewish, but Russian.

Wants a Russian pianist.

Is it too much to ask?

Apparently so.

Ah thought this person was just ignorant and a fanatic about Russians. But it seems Ah didn't read enough between the lines. Or maybe a few others just read too deeply.

Only the one who posted can truly know.

Ah say let it die

[ramseytheii]

Wants a Russian pianist.

So to be Jewish is to exclude being Russian?  That's unspeakably racist.  The Nazis also claimed the Jews were foreigners to the German culture, when in fact they were of the very fabric!  These days you find people trying to say that Muslims cannot be Americans.  Even in Amerika we are hearing such garbage!

Walter Ramsey

[rimv2]

So to be Jewish is to exclude being Russian?  That's unspeakably racist.

Ignorant: yes. Racist:  only the person posting would know. Supposing otherwise is merely speculation. Reading between the lines is easy when you want to.

The Nazis also claimed the Jews were foreigners to the German culture, when in fact they were of the very fabric! 

It seems ah must...

The reason Germans saw the Jewish as separate is because of the mistaking of Jews for a race of people rather than a culture. Many people, Jew and non-Jew, believe that being Jewish is something that is inborn. A person born from a Jew is thus a Jew. Aside from whatever cultural beliefs one has, this is incorrect. A Jew is human first. Jewish as race is ignorance on a lot of peoples behalf. Same as Black, White, and Asian don't exist, the Jewish race does not exist. Human race is the only race of man.

These days you find people trying to say that Muslims cannot be Americans.  Even in Amerika we are hearing such garbage!

Walter Ramsey

Yes, and we also hear that world is flat as well. Not every comment made by the ignorant is worth dwelling upon

[jlh]

Ignorant: yes. Racist:  only the person posting would know. Supposing otherwise is merely speculation. Reading between the lines is easy when you want to.

It is not speculation or reading between the lines.  The poster used the term "Jewish" in a negative way, as opposed to "Russian" in a positive way.

The reason Germans saw the Jewish as separate is because of the mistaking of Jews for a race of people rather than a culture. Many people, Jew and non-Jew, believe that being Jewish is something that is inborn. A person born from a Jew is thus a Jew. Aside from whatever cultural beliefs one has, this is incorrect. A Jew is human first. Jewish as race is ignorance on a lot of peoples behalf. Same as Black, White, and Asian don't exist, the Jewish race does not exist. Human race is the only race of man.

I agree with you.  The problem is that the world is still racist.  Google proved that:
https://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Proves-That-The-World-Is-Racist-13571.shtml

Maybe you just have a problem with the word "race"?  Fact is that no matter what you call it (nationalism, patriotism, culturalism, ethnical bias, etc.) it means the same thing.  Don't try and sidestep the issue because of semantics.

Racism definitely exists today in many forms.  It's just so taboo now that it's disguised and difficult to see.  That's why when someone makes such an obvious statement placing one culture above another we need to point it out and take action.

[rimv2]

It is not speculation or reading between the lines.  The poster used the term "Jewish" in a negative way, as opposed to "Russian" in a positive way.

I agree with you.  The problem is that the world is still racist.  Google proved that:
https://news.softpedia.com/news/Google-Proves-That-The-World-Is-Racist-13571.shtml

Maybe you just have a problem with the word "race"?  Fact is that no matter what you call it (nationalism, patriotism, culturalism, ethnical bias, etc.) it means the same thing.  Don't try and sidestep the issue because of semantics.

Racism definitely exists today in many forms.  It's just so taboo now that it's disguised and difficult to see.  That's why when someone makes such an obvious statement placing one culture above another we need to point it out and take action.

I live in America. Of course I know racism exist. And I would never excuse it. And I'm sure as heck not trying to sidestep. I don't know the individual who made the post. I simply don't believe that one post defines an entire person. I want to see the best in this individual. That's part of the reason I read almost every post by the individual before posting here myself. I see pride and I see passion. Then I see ignorance. Do I judge the individual by this one post? Or do I go by 300 posts before that? Is this the whole person, or but a fragment?

Who really cares?

We are quick to put people into compartments; to generalize. This guy is like that guy. That girl is like this girl. We can convince ourselves we know more about a person in the first three seconds, and yet we spend a lifetime trying to understand.

I'm forgetting where I'm going with this

So I'll just pose this question for you.

Is Inga truly a racist or has she merely posted a bigoted comment?

My opinion on this subject, it would seem, is completely irrelevant. 

So, be angry, if you must. Watch her, if you must. But please don't be so quick to put her into a tiny box, less she do more to make it suiting.

And by Inga, I mean everyone you ever meet.

Cue witty and reprimanding comeback...

[jlh]

I wouldn't call someone a racist because of a single comment (unless that one comment made it abundantly clear of one's position).  Even if it was "merely" a bigoted comment, it needs to be addressed.  Heck, look what happened to Michael Richards for his one bigoted comment.  I commend Nils for his stance and the action he has taken.  More action would be unwarranted for a single comment.

Are we still discussing this?  lol

[rimv2]

Are we still discussing this?  lol

>_>


<_<


 

[rachfan]

I believe that if a remark about race, religion, ethnicity, national origin, sex, or whatever can be interpreted by others as being a slur, then it could well be a slur--ill considered language or imperfectly expressed intentions notwithstanding nor providing mitigation.  In order to show respect for others, people (including me) need to think before they speak or write to avoid actually being offensive or being perceived as being offensive.  It's not much to ask or expect really.  That's all I have to say about it.