favorite ultramodernism thread.

[tanman]

hey guys!

I know this is stupid but...

can you give me the link to your favorite ultramodernism threads? I find them really amusing because people irrationally get mad at one another.

[chopininov]

If your looking for threads that contain bickering, most threads on this forum qualify.

[pies]

a

[thalbergmad]

Just search the word Finnissy.

That musical horseturd is usually enough to start the bickering.

Thal

[ahinton]

Just search the word Finnissy.

That musical horseturd is usually enough to start the bickering.

Why do you wish to seek specifically to victimise Michael Finnissy? I accept fully that you may not care for his music, but that is surely beside the point, is it not? Never mind the bickering and associated stupidity, for which I have less than no time; someone could make the same kinds of remarks about my work - and, if they wish to do so, then let them, I guess - but what purpose might this kind of thing serve? I have no specific personal professional interest in "modernism" or any other knd of "-ism"; it's up to each of us composers to do what we feel we have to do. The same goes for Mr. Finnissy as it does for me. You have on occasion made some pretty unpleasant remarks about Mr. Finnissy's work as it appeals (or rather not) to you and at the same time some arguably rather surprising comments that appear to imply a sense in which you feel that you can seem to associate with some of  mine; each listener owes it to the rest of us to be honest with and about what he/she finds approaches his/her own ears, so please let's not unthinkingly and/or insensitively knock Mr. Finnissy who, like me, is a composer and who has, like me, to stand or fall by what he has done.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

See what i mean.

Thal

[general disarray]

Just search the word Finnissy.

That musical horseturd is usually enough to start the bickering.

Thal

As president of the Island of Kaua'i's chapter of the Michael Finnissy Fan Club, I strongly object to your characterization of Maestro Finnissy as a "musical horseturd."  Our entire membership -- numbering myself, Anna Ahahola Argerich and Bora Bora Beresovsky -- has drafted a resolution asking that you cease and desist attacking our hero.

We have also contacted our counterpart chapter in the UK (Twatt, to be precise) and its membership has issued the following response:

"Michael Finnissy is, if anything, a musical cowpat.  'Horseturd' is reprehensible and until you take back this statement, you may not visit Twatt again."

I think that says it.

[thalbergmad]

I take it back. Horseturd has some use.

I apologise to all horses.

Thal

[general disarray]

I take it back. Horseturd has some use.

I apologise to all horses.

Thal

Communique from the Michael Finnissy Twatt Chapter:  "There are more horses' asses than horses."

[ahinton]

See what i mean.

Er - no...

Best,

Alistair

[Petter]

Where is this Island of Kaua'i's of which you speak? Can they offer some comfort to a weary mind?

[Essyne]

As long as you're not on Oahu, anything's possible. . . .

[ahinton]

Michael Finnissy is, if anything, a musical cowpat.

Oh, you mean that he is an ENGLISH composer? Oh, well. Three cheers for Lizzie Lutyens (who, for those who may not realise it, is generally credited with having inventend the term "cowpat" music and the connotations that are supposed to associate therewith). That said, "Finnissy" doesn't sound especially "English" to me...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

It don't take much to start Hinty off.

You don't hear from him for ages, then all of a sudden, one little F word brings him back.

Thal

[general disarray]

It don't take much to start Hinty off.

You don't hear from him for ages, then all of a sudden, one little F word brings him back.

Thal

Yep.  We got him going.

[thalbergmad]

Communique from the Michael Finnissy Twatt Chapter:  "There are more horses' asses than horses."

Communique from F.A.G  (Finnissy Action Group).

Bollox.

[thalbergmad]

Finnissy has done more damage to ears than Mike Tyson.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

What if we start victimizing Thalberg instead of Finnissy? What then would you have to say, dear old Thal? You wouldn't like it, of course, just like how people don't like it when you attack Finnissy. Sure, his music isn't for everyone, but it isn't for nobody (double negative intended, Alistair).

[Petter]

I´ve heard the Thalbergmad , Drunk Trampoline Concert opus 99 posthumous and I must admit; this is a really dwarfing, magnificent and an extraodinary piece that touches realms of my consciousness on a level of magnitude that simply cannot be described by words. My praise goes out to him, for he gave so much and got so little in return.

[ahinton]

Finnissy has done more damage to ears than Mike Tyson.

In your apparent opinion; were this actually no mere opinion but an actual truth, might it not of necessity presume that approximately as many people have listened to his music as have entered the ring (not Wagner's, of course) and gone several rounds with Mike Tyson? - in other words, does this comparison tell us anything useful about either Finnissy or Tyson or those who have directly encountered either? and, if so, what?

It appears that, in what you are seeking to express here, you are missing some vital points. One is that to I have arguably done at least as much "damage" with my work to those who would respond to it as you do to Finnissy's (and you could, for that matter, substitute any other composer's name for mine to demonstrate the same point); another is that there are such things as on-off switches and the use of one's legs to walk out of a public performance when what is on offer affects listeners as Finnissy's music appears to affect you.

No rational person would expect Finnissy's music necessarily to appeal to you or that it should appeal to you, nor indeed would any such person necessarily even be surprised to discover that it is anathema to you. Whatever your personal feelings on the subject my be, however, I think it fair to say that you might garner more respect and credibility were you to provide some details of exactly what features of Finnissy's music you dislike so intensely and why, rather than merely making the kinds of offhand and substanceless barbs about him and his work that you have done so far; an essential part of such an exercise would, of course, be the helpful inclusion of some information as to what Finnissy works you have heard and how often you have heard some of them.

You do not, of course, have to respond to this challenge but, if you choose not to do so but continue your profoundly unsubtle Finnissy-bashing campaign, the sheer emptiness, tastelessness and pleonastic absurdity of your observations on him and his work will become all the more apparent to those who continue to read them.

In so saying, I should make it clear that I am not here to defend Michael Finnissy's music but to defend him from attack by those whose modus operandi involve the use of verbal weapons of mass irrationality for which they have not even paid.

One could, of course, substitute many other names for Finnissy's here to more or less the same effect. The facts remain, however, that some music will never appeal to some people and that the appeal of other music might wax and wane from time to time because all listeners are humans with human responses which, by their very nature, change, metamorphose and develop with time rather than being idées fixes such as your apparent intransigent, intolerant and inflexible view of Finnissy.

But then perhaps, in so saying, I am appearing to take your remarks too seriously and that it is I rather than you who miss the point; maybe there is a certain subtle commonality between Mr. Tyson, Mr. Finnissy and your good self that I have until now overlooked and that, whatever that may be, you have been taking it all along...(!)...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Yep.  We got him going.

Hardly so. My thoughts about certain folk attacking Finnissy would be the same whether or not "we" (whoever "we" may be) had said anything at all, so I wouldn't flatter yourself if I were you.

As I observed by implication in my previous post, why not bash my work rather than Finnissy's for a change? - provided that, in so doing it is taken apart to the extent of explaining to readers which of its features seem so unappealing and why, rather than merely making bald statements along the lines of "(**)'s music is bollox"...

Best,

Alistair

[tds]

Finnissy has done more damage to ears than Mike Tyson.

Thal

lol

[ahinton]

lol

Whilst I admit to having listened to only a relatively small proportion of Mr Finnissy's immensely prolific output, I have to say that my ears and my aural capacities nonetheless remain entirely intact; I rather suspect that this would not have been the case had I gone several rounds with Mr Tyson...

Incidentally, might "tds" stand for "Tyson Damages Sanity"? - or is my imagination overly active for the time of day?...

Best,

Alistair

[tds]

Whilst I admit to having listened to only a relatively small proportion of Mr Finnissy's immensely prolific output, I have to say that my ears and my aural capacities nonetheless remain entirely intact; I rather suspect that this would not have been the case had I gone several rounds with Mr Tyson...

everybody reacts differently to stimulus. but yes. we happy 4 u.

Incidentally, might "tds" stand for "Tyson Damages Sanity"? - or is my imagination overly active for the time of day?...

Best,

Alistair

ur da 76th person who tried to guess it. may i suggest: more imagination, perhaps?

[ahinton]

everybody reacts differently to stimulus. but yes. we happy 4 u.

Er, yes, indeed - except that I cannot help but suspect that there would be less general commonality of reaction to the music of Mr Finnissy than there would be to being pounded by Mr Tyson.

"we happy 4 u"? Pardon?...

ur da 76th person who tried to guess it.

I'm sorry to tell you that it was a mere aside rather than a piece of serious guesswork...

may i suggest: more imagination, perhaps?

In a paraphrase of the immortal words uttered by the late lamented Iain Richardson, "you may suggest whatever you like; I couldn't possibly comment"...

Best,

Alistair

[concerto_love]

ur da 76th person who tried to guess it. may i suggest: more imagination, perhaps?

I know... 

[ahinton]

I know... 

You "know" what, excatly? - what "tds" stands for or how many people have tried to guess what it stands for? (or something else altogether?)...

Best,

Alistair

[concerto_love]

You "know" what, excatly? - what "tds" stands for or how many people have tried to guess what it stands for? (or something else altogether?)...

All of it... 

[ahinton]

All of it... 

Ah - a know-all - and a self-confessed one, at that!...

Best,

Alistair

[tds]

Er, yes, indeed - except that I cannot help but suspect that there would be less general commonality of reaction to the music of Mr Finnissy than there would be to being pounded by Mr Tyson.

er, except a suspicion is a suspicion, i suspect.

"we happy 4 u"? Pardon?...

pardon,...pardon?

I'm sorry to tell you that it was a mere aside rather than a piece of serious guesswork...

it's ok. whichever. you can try again

In a paraphrase of the immortal words uttered by the late lamented Iain Richardson, "you may suggest whatever you like; I couldn't possibly comment"...

Best,

Alistair

"or is my imagination overly active for the time of day?.."(ahinton)
you first brought up the subject of imagination. in fact, u were asking me a question. now that i've answered ur question, u flipped. that was not a very interesting strategy of communication. tds

[ahinton]

er, except a suspicion is a suspicion, i suspect.

I would likewise have suspected as much, in principle, at least, although some might arguably see this case as rather more than a mere suspicion; indeed, anyone other than a very skilled boxer would almost certainly do so.

pardon,...pardon?

Perhaps I should have been more unsubtle and simply asked you what you meant here.

it's ok. whichever. you can try again

With respect, one can only try something again if one has already tried it at least once previously.

"or is my imagination overly active for the time of day?.."(ahinton)
you first brought up the subject of imagination. in fact, u were asking me a question. now that i've answered ur question, u flipped. that was not a very interesting strategy of communication.

Nor is your assessment an accurate one. My question was rhetorical (self-evidently so, I would have said) and not addressed to anyone in particular even though it was posed in a post that was rsponding to yours; I have neither "flipped" nor had cause to do so.

Now - how about a return to the topic? (assuming it to be worthy of further posts)...

Best,

Alistair

[tds]

I would likewise have suspected as much, in principle, at least, although some might arguably see this case as rather more than a mere suspicion; indeed, anyone other than a very skilled boxer would almost certainly do so.
Perhaps I should have been more unsubtle and simply asked you what you meant here.
With respect, one can only try something again if one has already tried it at least once previously.
Nor is your assessment an accurate one. My question was rhetorical (self-evidently so, I would have said) and not addressed to anyone in particular even though it was posed in a post that was rsponding to yours; I have neither "flipped" nor had cause to do so.

Now - how about a return to the topic? (assuming it to be worthy of further posts)...

Best,

Alistair

lol..

[tanman]

*ducks and takes cover

I've started my own ultramodernism thread. lol. I love these threads!

[ahinton]

Well, not everyone likes them or finds them instructive or entertaining. Anyway, I blame those ultramodernists themsleves, guv. I 'ad that 'Elmut Lachenmann in the back o' me cab once...

Best,

Alistair

[pianochick93]

"we happy 4 u"? Pardon?...

I do believe he meant 'We are happy for you.'

Not particularly hard to guess...really...

[thalbergmad]

What if we start victimizing Thalberg instead of Finnissy? What then would you have to say, dear old Thal? You wouldn't like it, of course, just like how people don't like it when you attack Finnissy. Sure, his music isn't for everyone, but it isn't for nobody (double negative intended, Alistair).

I would not care if you started victimising Thalberg. I would find it funny, because i have got a sense of humour, i am not full of my own self importance and i have not got my head stuck up my arse.

You forgot to mention that this type of thread would be deleted at the forum where you are moderator.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

In your apparent opinion; were this actually no mere opinion but an actual truth, might it not of necessity presume that approximately as many people have listened to his music as have entered the ring (not Wagner's, of course) and gone several rounds with Mike Tyson? - in other words, does this comparison tell us anything useful about either Finnissy or Tyson or those who have directly encountered either? and, if so, what?

It appears that, in what you are seeking to express here, you are missing some vital points. One is that to I have arguably done at least as much "damage" with my work to those who would respond to it as you do to Finnissy's (and you could, for that matter, substitute any other composer's name for mine to demonstrate the same point); another is that there are such things as on-off switches and the use of one's legs to walk out of a public performance when what is on offer affects listeners as Finnissy's music appears to affect you.

No rational person would expect Finnissy's music necessarily to appeal to you or that it should appeal to you, nor indeed would any such person necessarily even be surprised to discover that it is anathema to you. Whatever your personal feelings on the subject my be, however, I think it fair to say that you might garner more respect and credibility were you to provide some details of exactly what features of Finnissy's music you dislike so intensely and why, rather than merely making the kinds of offhand and substanceless barbs about him and his work that you have done so far; an essential part of such an exercise would, of course, be the helpful inclusion of some information as to what Finnissy works you have heard and how often you have heard some of them.

You do not, of course, have to respond to this challenge but, if you choose not to do so but continue your profoundly unsubtle Finnissy-bashing campaign, the sheer emptiness, tastelessness and pleonastic absurdity of your observations on him and his work will become all the more apparent to those who continue to read them.

In so saying, I should make it clear that I am not here to defend Michael Finnissy's music but to defend him from attack by those whose modus operandi involve the use of verbal weapons of mass irrationality for which they have not even paid.

One could, of course, substitute many other names for Finnissy's here to more or less the same effect. The facts remain, however, that some music will never appeal to some people and that the appeal of other music might wax and wane from time to time because all listeners are humans with human responses which, by their very nature, change, metamorphose and develop with time rather than being idées fixes such as your apparent intransigent, intolerant and inflexible view of Finnissy.

But then perhaps, in so saying, I am appearing to take your remarks too seriously and that it is I rather than you who miss the point; maybe there is a certain subtle commonality between Mr. Tyson, Mr. Finnissy and your good self that I have until now overlooked and that, whatever that may be, you have been taking it all along...(!)...

Best,

Alistair

You are not doing a very good impression of someone that does not get involved in silly arguements.

You have already written the equivalent of Hamlet.

I will ignore your post later when i have more time.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

why not bash my work rather than Finnissy's for a change?

Fortunately, not much of it has been recorded, so i am not really in a position to bash your work.

Thanks for the offer though.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

I would not care if you started victimising Thalberg. I would find it funny, because i have got a sense of humour, i am not full of my own self importance and i have not got my head stuck up my arse.

You forgot to mention that this type of thread would be deleted at the forum where you are moderator.

You don't have to be an ass about it. I was merely stating an alternative to the uncouth behavior you are doing. And I am not full of my own self importance nor have I got my "head stuck up my arse". I would appreciate it if you wouldn't talk like that to me, for I have done ntohing deserving of it. You have got to admit that you are not exactly being a nice person by bashing a composer senselessly. And I am merely taking a more objective stance by calling you out on what you are doing. I am not part of some Michael Finnissy fan club or anything, nor do I have the desire to be, for I do not feel that strongly about his music.

And, for the record, this kind of thread would not be deleted where I am moderator. And I thank you in advance for staying on topic.

[thalbergmad]

Touchy buggers these modernists.

[retrouvailles]

You better believe it. Modern music gets more senseless bashing than any other period of music. And a lot of the bashing comes out of ignorance, which makes it even worse. But I suppose composers today are used to it. After all, Beethoven and some other greats were bashed for writing nonsense. Nowadays we take their music for granted. I suppose the greats of today (I wouldn't consider Finnissy part of that group, really) will be taken for granted in 150 years and the composers of that future era will be bashed, just as today's are.

[thalbergmad]

I am certain you are correct as tastes change with time.

No doubt the greats of today will probably not be valued in their lifetime and it may take 150 years or so. In addition, the ones accepted as great at sometime in the future, might to us now seem a strange choice.

Thal

[tds]

You don't have to be an ass about it. I was merely stating an alternative to the uncouth behavior you are doing. And I am not full of my own self importance nor have I got my "head stuck up my arse". I would appreciate it if you wouldn't talk like that to me, for I have done ntohing deserving of it. You have got to admit that you are not exactly being a nice person by bashing a composer senselessly. And I am merely taking a more objective stance by calling you out on what you are doing. I am not part of some Michael Finnissy fan club or anything, nor do I have the desire to be, for I do not feel that strongly about his music.

despite thal's response to your post, are you sure his self-importance and head-stuck-up-his-arse comment was directed to you? tds

[retrouvailles]

despite thal's response to your post, are you sure his self-importance and head-stuck-up-his-arse comment was directed to you? tds

Who else would it be directed at? He was talking to me in that post. It's not important, really, though.

[tds]

Who else would it be directed at? He was talking to me in that post.

hmm...yesterday my friend was talking to me, not in a very direct way, about his other friend..

[thalbergmad]

For the record, i was not referring to retro in person.

My comments were based on a general impression gained from reading posts by the modernists.

Thal

[tds]

For the record, i was not referring to retro in person.

My comments were based on a general impression gained from reading posts by the modernists.

Thal

noted

[thalbergmad]

On one of the very few occasions that i was not actually taking the piss, someone gets the hump.

Strange world is it not.

Thal

[tds]

On one of the very few occasions that i was not actually taking the piss, someone gets the hump.

Strange world is it not.

Thal

few words u often hear them together: piss, strange, and world.

u nailed it on the head again.

[ahinton]

You are not doing a very good impression of someone that does not get involved in silly arguements.

But who says that I was necessarily trying to do so (and "arguments" has but one "e").

You have already written the equivalent of Hamlet.

I will endeavour to take that as the compliment which I assume it was not intended to be or not to be (perhaps because there is something rotten in the state of Gravesend)...

I will ignore your post later when i have more time.

There are simply never enough hours in the day, are there?!...

Best,

Alistair