op.10 no.2 "chromatique"

op.10 no.4 in C-Sharp minor "Torrent"

op.25 no.11 "Winter wind"

I have been thinking about this topic.....really, Etudes is mostly a study of techniques.....
And to be honest, they are ALL difficult to play, let alone to learn   unless a pianist has spent several years to learn these Etudes...

However, I have relearned 25/8, which kills my right hand pinkie(ouchy, ouch!) and then to
learn the 10/1,  (oh, my gosh!)       with that tempo in which it *supposed* to by played, 
it will take a while to master that,(I am merely a humble pianist), and the next Etude that I plan to learn will probably be the next easiest that my fingers can go without tripping up!   

Yes, I looked at 10/2 and that makes me shutter.......

best wishes,

go12_3

The hardest three without a doubt are Op. 10/1, Op. 10/2 and Op. 25/6

I disagree, op.25 no.6 is easy if you can do the thirds quickly enough. op.10 no.1 is easy once it gets in your fingers.

You are certainly in the minority, if you think Op. 10/1 and Op. 25/6 are easy.

I have been thinking about this topic.....really, Etudes is mostly a study of techniques.....
And to be honest, they are ALL difficult to play, let alone to learn   unless a pianist has spent several years to learn these Etudes...

However, I have relearned 25/8, which kills my right hand pinkie(ouchy, ouch!) and then to
learn the 10/1,  (oh, my gosh!)       with that tempo in which it *supposed* to by played, 
it will take a while to master that,(I am merely a humble pianist), and the next Etude that I plan to learn will probably be the next easiest that my fingers can go without tripping up!   :Pbest wishes,

go12_3

You are not alone is stating that they are all difficult, although quite a few pianists have claimed that, in general terms, Op. 10 tend to be somewhat more demanding than Op. 25 or the Trois Nouvelles Études. The English pianist Ronald Smith (1922-2004) was well known for having much of Chopin's friend Alkan's immensely challenging music in his repertoire, yet even in his late 70s he once told me that he was practising Chopin's Op. 10 études for a recital and how difficult they were (this after he had been performing them from time to time over almost 60 years!) - so despair not!

Best,

Alistair

Yeah, those three Chopin etudes are very difficult 

op 10 no 3
L'escalier du diable
Opus Clavicembalisticum

 

For me the most difficult (and I play ALMOST all of them--I think 20 or 21) are Op.25/3 and Op.25/4, which for some reason just don't fit my hands.
Two others would be Op.25/11 (the main difficulty is just get the right tempo--I always take it hair too fast and find myself with tired hands somewhere around 3rd-4th page), and Op.10/1, which I never could play with 100% accuracy--on the stage I'd always hit at least a couple wrong notes here and there...

But the real difficulties are to play Op.10/2 straight after Op.10/1 and last 4 etudes in a row.
 
Best, M

that's a kinda big if, isn't it?  I mean, playing the Alkan symphony is easy if you play all the notes at the right time...

Its easy to play ____, if you______

that doesnt make sense

I am surprised nobody mentioned op.10 no.7, in my opinion one of the most, perhaps the most challenging etude.

It is a piece that is equally difficult to play all the notes, and to play them well (and it is probably one of the most underplayed for that reason).

Op.25 no.12 for instance may have some difficulties, but it is not hard to play the notes well, once you can play them at all.  I would have to say, generally, the same with op.25 no.11.

If you can play the notes to op.10 no.1, you will be fine.

But to shape perfectly op.10 no.7?  To make it comprehensible to a listening audience?  It is a rare skill.

Walter Ramsey

I am surprised nobody mentioned op.10 no.7, in my opinion one of the most, perhaps the most challenging etude.

But to shape perfectly op.10 no.7?  To make it comprehensible to a listening audience?  It is a rare skill.

Walter Ramsey

It is a very challenging etude without a doubt. The key is to keep wrist and forearms relaxed without sacrificing precision in the constant alternation of thirds and sixths. However, the etude is very short and there is no challenge to the left hand. Therefore, I would place it right after 10/1, 10/2, 25/6, and 25/11.

its not fair to say which are the most difficult etudes.  all are difficult in their own right.  but considering my current technical ability, the most difficult ones would be opus 10/1, 10/2, 25/10. 

25/11 is actually not as complex.  Its a real pain to figure out all those notes though. 

Op.25 No. 10, Op. 25 No. 10, Op. 10 No. 10
 :>-<

Since it's obviously different for each person, for me it seems like Op. 25 No. 6 is the hardest, then Op. 10 No. 1, then Op. 10 No. 2, in that order.

I'd probably say the most difficult for me would be:

Op 10 #2
Op 10 #10
Op 25 #4


Any of the arpeggio ones don't bother me (Op 10 #1, #8 and #12 feel WAY easier than alot of them for my hands).  The double note ones can be approached if you practice double note scales (I did chromatic minor thirds for a week or two, and can play through 25 #6 at about 2/3 speed with proper fingering).  If you aren't too stubborn to take some time to practice the raw technique required, then when you tackle the piece, it won't be like a punch in the face when the technical challenge creeps up 

10/2 KILLS my hand because my outer fingers haven't had enough development there.  I can last about a page and a half (right hand alone) before my hand just dies.

10/10 just throws me off rhythm-wise (and it's also insanely fast).  I don't think I'd be able to really feel the rhythm (parts of this remind me of my rant on the some of the rhythm in Prokofiev sonata #3 I brought up a few months ago).  It's more of a puzzle finding the right pulses in this than it is simply playing it note for note.

25/4 is (for me) a piece that I would not want to bother playing.  I'd take octaves and arpeggios before these crazy left hand jumps that have to be so damn light and fast!

10/1 not that hard

25/4 officially gets my vote after spending another week trying each etude out.  I've played Rachmaninoff Op 39#6, and find the jumps in the climax are easier mostly because it's more of a percussive approach than the 'leggiero' jumps in this one.  I'd feel sick to my stomach if my teacher asked me to learn 25/4 haha

I spent some time seeing if I could get a grasp on this one, and I just simply cannot have a near light enough (or accurate enough) left hand to play 4 pages of those figures.

10/2
25/4
25/11
all hard

I'll still go for 25/2. I have heard quite many recordnings (Cortot, Vasary and Sokoloy, among other) and not one plays the way it should. I don't know a lot about Chopin, nor his works. but I am quite sure that if he wanted it to be played as 16th note, he wouldn't have written triplets.

I see some more farcical discussion by bigotted individuals and their opinions about difficulty . You need staggering technique to play Opus 25 No 6 and none of you have even demonstrated high technique (myself included) in the auditions room.

If you play any of Chopin's etudes 10 times the regular speed, not one of you would be able to perform it. So what of this "difficulty"? Can any of you play any etude to a point of absolute perfection.....not a single thing to be done ever? That is the importance of performance and not what is most "difficult".

I see some more farcical discussion by bigotted individuals and their opinions about difficulty . You need staggering technique to play Opus 25 No 6 and none of you have even demonstrated high technique (myself included) in the auditions room.

If you play any of Chopin's etudes 10 times the regular speed, not one of you would be able to perform it. So what of this "difficulty"? Can any of you play any etude to a point of absolute perfection.....not a single thing to be done ever? That is the importance of performance and not what is most "difficult".

Have you ever played anything to perfection?

Slow, of course it's impossible for truly perfect performances, and there is some subjectivity to "good enough," but can we not just back away from such deep approaches and think about which three Chopin etudes for us are the most difficult?

There have been deep discussions about technique for centuries, and there will still be. I don't think we can fully solve it, primarily because we all are different. As for me, I will just keep practicing to try to become the best pianist I can!

You are correct about saying Op. 25 No. 6 takes a great amount of technique. But so does Op. 25 No. 10, Op. 10 No. 2, Op. 10 No. 1, and many others. The technique required in 25/6 may be very hard for some (like me), but others who don't have good octave technique may have just as much struggle with 25/10.

And I found that electrafingers' performance of 25/6 was great. What do you think about his comment to another PS member? "...and generally I don't think it would be a good idea to pass ideas about practicing or technique in these forums. Many things can be done through the web, but in this case I think confusion is more likely to be the outcome than any real progression. Piano technique is an extremely delicate issue which still requires an intimate one-on-one situation."

well the thing is.. each one is written to improve a certain aspect of playing e.g. octaves, thirds, chromatics.... so the hardest would really be personally based on what you are worst at no???

Does anyone already try the Brahms Study No.1: after Chopin's Etude, Op.25 No.2 ??
http://imslp.org/wiki/5_Studies,_Anh.1a/1_%28Brahms,_Johannes%29#Study_No.1:_after_Chopin.27s_Etude.2C_Op.25_No.2

I quickly dropped :-)

Chopin's etudes are all difficult, but if you need to know which are the most difficult you need to look at two aspects here: the technical difficulty, and the interpertational/emotional difficulty. Chopin's etudes were the first etudes that demanded more than technical difficulty, it demanded musical and emotional mastery to execute right.  Most of the etudes are technically demanding, but some etudes, the main idea of them is to put the technicallity aside and focus about musicality.  So in my opinion, the three most difficult etudes are:
1. op.10 no. 11 - the musical main harmony element is REALLY hard to be played right.
2. op. 10 no. 2 - this etude is more technically demanding, but it's idea is that when you overcome the technical challenge, you need to play the chromatics so smooth, that it sounds like a much simpler piece (like most of Chopin's music of course).
3. op. 25. no. 6 - the double thirds are really hard to play, the technical element is really hard.

of course there are more difficult pieces, but as a piano player that player almost all of the etudes, this is my thought about it.  I really think that when you play Chopin's music, you encounter some rough parts at the start of the learning process, and your fingers sometimes asks you if you are seriously playing this, but after you master it, the real difficulty begins, the struggle for playing a piece you master technically and putting in it the right amount of emotion, not too much and not to little.
happy etude playing, though

Op.10, No.1
Op.10 No.4(sure in 3 most difficult)
Op.25 No.6
 

4 is pretty hard, but what do you think of 2?

I haven't tried 4, so I wouldn't know.