Kill one Composer

[quirky]

An interesting thread has been started lately on one who is the composer we would resurrect.

Retrouvailles suggested "Perhaps we should start a thread about composers who are alive, but should have died a long time ago."

I just did, so....

I would say Boulez

[communist]

I agree with Boulez.

But I would not want to kill someone just because I don't like there music.

[quirky]

Well I didn't mean to kill them....

I meant who do you think should have stopped composing already!

[retrouvailles]

Boulez might be worth killing, in that we would finally get to see his (probably many) withdrawn works. I'd still like to see some new works by him. I don't really hate him, so I wouldn't want to kill him. I stick with my original decision for Glass, for he hasn't created anything of real value since the late 80s, possibly.

[pies]

a

[perfect_pitch]

If I could go back and kill someone??? Arnold Schoenberg.... Him and his crappy 12-tone serialistic system of tonality - BASTARD!!!!

That and maybe Bartok AFTER he composed his 1898 Sonata in e flat minor.

[retrouvailles]

If I could go back and kill someone??? Arnold Schoenberg.... Him and his crappy 12-tone serialistic system of tonality - BASTARD!!!!

That and maybe Bartok AFTER he composed his 1898 Sonata in e flat minor.

You are the one that should be killed for such statements. Both of these composers, despite their lack of aesthetic beauty (this is relative from person to person) were seminal in the development of 20th and 21st century music. Most, if not all, composers today acknowledge that they owe a debt to one or both of these composers, even if their music sounds nothing like it, or is completely innocent sounding.

[pk]

This is easy,
Sorabji

[perfect_pitch]

Both of these composers, despite their lack of aesthetic beauty (this is relative from person to person) were seminal in the development of 20th and 21st century music.

Exactly the reason why they should have been killed   

I love the Romantic era, the Classical and the Baroque... but the 20th Century just got too weird... I mean Satie and Debussy are still nice... but when you have pieces like Verklarte Nacht floating about - it's PAINFUL to listen to... LITERALLY PAINFUL!!!!

[retrouvailles]

Exactly the reason why they should have been killed    

I love the Romantic era, the Classical and the Baroque... but the 20th Century just got too weird... I mean Satie and Debussy are still nice... but when you have pieces like Verklarte Nacht floating about - it's PAINFUL to listen to... LITERALLY PAINFUL!!!!

If you think Verklärte Nacht is painful, a completely tonal work with key signatures which uses NO serial or 12 tone procedures (Schoenberg wrote it before developing his 12 tone technique), then I don't know what to say to you. That is just beyond words. You should just get help. You obviously have this boring philosophy that music should just "sound good" and nothing more. Dissonance, which is a very relative term, gives tension and drama to music. Your beloved Romantic era music has plenty of that, but you are used to it, so you aren't repulsed by it. Get used to 20th century music and it will seem just like Romantic music to you. Seriously, do some research. You are most assuredly a minority for thinking that Verklärte Nacht is "painful". I don't believe someone would say this.

/end rant

This is easy,
Sorabji

He's already dead. You'd just waste your time.

[indutrial]

'Kill' is a little bit strong, and I really hope none of the composers we're mentioning see this thread. Boulez can compose as much music as he wants as far as I see things. His work as a conductor and an active promoter of works by composers like Carter can't be overlooked, even if the by-product were works as bad as John Cage's.

I don't wish him dead, but I wish Avro Part would stop composing, since too much of his music is hard for me to differentiate from average movie soundtrack themes. Fans of his work are annoying as hell and can never seem to say enough about beauty-this and beauty-that.

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if Gorecki hung it up also. Hearing his 3rd string quartet played by the prestigious (and annoyingly hipster-trendy) Kronos Quartet was about as uninspiring as it can get. Sure, there are some good harmonies here and there, but the overall work wallows in the way too much minimalist self-indulgence and drones on for a painful eternity.

Lastly, I flat out want to see Steve Reich's career come to an end. He's been composing cheap, audience-insulting, gimmicky arrogant s**t for years and even just won the Pulitzer Prize for his latest may-as-well-be-an-obscure-hodgepodge-of-electronia-but-played-on-real-instruments compositions ('Double Sextet'). I heard the work, and it doesn't hold a candle to some of the masterpieces that are usually given that accolade (Elliott Carter's 2nd and 3rd quartets, Wuorinen's Time's Encomium, amongst many other works that push music into new directions, with the distinct exception of Wynton Marsalis). Minimalist composers come across to me as the most smug, self-satisfied hedonists in the composing world, and it's a continuing shame that so many fans of classical music are entranced by their cheap musical light shows.

[indutrial]

I love the Romantic era, the Classical and the Baroque... but the 20th Century just got too weird...

Yeah yeah yeah, and driving a car to work is a lot less elegant than riding in a horse-drawn carriage. Summing up the 20th century's music as 'too weird' is an immature indulgence and shows a distinct lack of awareness to the reality that most composers did not dive wholesale into the extremities of serialism and dissonance. At this point, it's probably safe to say that a denial of Schoenberg's importance is tantamount to an insult to the entire craft, which always showed a deep respect to stylistic progenitors (Baroque, Classical composers) but simultaneously didn't hold back in pushing things forward when it was artistically appropriate.

[retrouvailles]

I don't wish him dead, but I wish Avro Part would stop composing, since too much of his music is hard for me to differentiate from average movie soundtrack themes. Fans of his work are annoying as hell and can never seem to say enough about beauty-this and beauty-that.

Perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if Gorecki hung it up also. Hearing his 3rd string quartet played by the prestigious (and annoyingly hipster-trendy) Kronos Quartet was about as uninspiring as it can get. Sure, there are some good harmonies here and there, but the overall work wallows in the way too much minimalist self-indulgence and drones on for a painful eternity.

Would you throw John Tavener, Giya Kancheli, and other "holy minimalists" into the mix? It seems you don't like this genre much (I don't blame you). I think it is OK at best.

Lastly, I flat out want to see Steve Reich's career come to an end. He's been composing cheap, audience-insulting, gimmicky arrogant s**t for years and even just won the Pulitzer Prize for his latest may-as-well-be-an-obscure-hodgepodge-of-electronia-but-played-on-real-instruments compositions ('Double Sextet'). I heard the work, and it doesn't hold a candle to some of the masterpieces that are usually given that accolade (Elliott Carter's 2nd and 3rd quartets, Wuorinen's Time's Encomium, amongst many other works that push music into new directions, with the distinct exception of Wynton Marsalis). Minimalist composers come across to me as the most smug, self-satisfied hedonists in the composing world, and it's a continuing shame that so many fans of classical music are entranced by their cheap musical light shows.

I agree with the Steve Reich comment. I thought the Double Sextet was one of the most predictable works I have ever seen or heard performed. When I saw it performed, my friends and I were pretty bored a few minutes in, for we already knew what was going to happen. It doesn't even come close in quality to some of his earlier works. I like minimalism though. And yes, I feel that music should always go in a new direction, but I think (good!) minimalism is a great guilty pleasure. It's surely better than listening to a lot of the composers who sell out today. I think they just gave him the Pulitzer because he was LONG overdue for such works as Music for 18 Musicians, but that time has long passed, unfortunately. Also, I suspect that the other 2 candidates for the Pulitzer were just not that great. Oh well. There are about 5 other works from the last 4 years I would put far ahead of the Double Sextet, like Stephen Hartke's Meanwhile, which I saw performed in the same concert as the Double Sextet-glorifying concert I went to. Enough ranting.

[cloches_de_geneve]

How unfair can this world get?

You have true geniuses like Mozart and Schubert, or even Gershwin, or Alban Berg for that matter, who should have lived twice as long as they did.
Then you have figures like Boulez, whose music no one will care about in 30 years, but the pompous bastard is still happily around at age 80. It is a simple question of retributive justice that he should be killed. The text he should read aloud before execution is: "I feel infinitely ashamed that I lived more than twice as long as Mozart, Schubert, or even Gershwin, or Alban Berg for that matter. Nothing, nothing, can reconcile me with this terrible, unspeakable injustice."

[pk]

sorry, didnt know they had to be alive,
then this thread is just stupid since there are no living composer worth mentioning 

He's already dead. You'd just waste your time.
[/quote]

[weissenberg2]

How unfair can this world get?

You have true geniuses like Mozart and Schubert, or even Gershwin, or Alban Berg for that matter, who should have lived twice as long as they did.
Then you have figures like Boulez, whose music no one will care about in 30 years, but the pompous bastard is still happily around at age 80. It is a simple question of retributive justice that he should be killed. The text he should read aloud before execution is: "I feel infinitely ashamed that I lived more than twice as long as Mozart, Schubert, or even Gershwin, or Alban Berg for that matter. Nothing, nothing, can reconcile me with this terrible, unspeakable injustice."

I wish Carl Reinecke could have given 20 or 25 of hi years to Mendelssohn.

If I could go back and kill someone??? Arnold Schoenberg.... Him and his crappy 12-tone serialistic system of tonality - BASTARD!!!!

That and maybe Bartok AFTER he composed his 1898 Sonata in e flat minor.

maybe you will like Hindemith better

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Then again, I'm not sure if he qualifies as a composer.

(I'm sure Malcolm Williamson said "Andrew Lloyd Webber is everywhere - but so is AIDS".)

[perfect_pitch]

If you think Verklärte Nacht is painful, a completely tonal work with key signatures which uses NO serial or 12 tone procedures (Schoenberg wrote it before developing his 12 tone technique), then I don't know what to say to you. That is just beyond words. You should just get help.

Well thanks retrouvailles.... Nice to know that I'm not allowed a *** opinion... you jackarse. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone saying that they don't like a certain composer, object, flavour, etc.... etc..... BECAUSE IT'S THEIR GOD-DAMN OPINION.

If someone came along and said they didn't like chocolate... Would I lecture them about how there's something psychologically wrong with them? sh*t NO!!! I had to study 20th Century music at University for 2 whole years.... so I've been exposed to everyone from Bartok, Schoenberg to John Adams.... Had I just chosed to dismiss it on a whim - then you'd have every opportunity and reason to lecture me.

I GAVE IT A CHANCE AND I DON'T LIKE IT... That's my personal opinion... I only chose to hate it based on the years of bad music I had to try and endure. And if you can't handle that somone hates 20th Century then DEAL WITH IT!!

Jesus... no need to get so god-damn up-tight about it.

[gep]

Err, shall we change the subject to "composers of whom I wouldn't mind if I didn't hear their music anymore"?

And see the difference between personal tastes and real value? What you don't like isn't bad, it's just that you don't like it. If only music was allowed that everybody liked we wouldn't have any music, yes?

Gep

[thalbergmad]

Err, shall change the subject to "composers of whom I wouldn't mind if I didn't hear their music anymore"?

If i were you, i would change the thread title to DELETED.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I GAVE IT A CHANCE AND I DON'T LIKE IT... That's my personal opinion... I only chose to hate it based on the years of bad music I had to try and endure. And if you can't handle that somone hates 20th Century then DEAL WITH IT!!

The "modernists" do not allow us to hate their favourite composers and they get very upset when we do. If we do not like some 20th Century music, it is because of a lack of intelligence on our part &  our inability to endure hours of music we do not like, in order to find something that we do.

This is why i dedicate 1 hour a week to listen to something "new". This week for the 2nd time, i sat in my garden and listened to a concerto by a genius called Berio. This has had a very positive effect on me as:

1. I have still not stopped laughing.
2. My next door neighbours cat no longer comes into my garden to crap on the roses, as it is too frightened.

I would talk more, but i have to start grooming the horse and polishing the carriage for the journey into work tomorrow.

Thal

[gep]

I'm no modernist, so I'd say you're freely allowed, or anyone for that matter, to like/dislike/love/hate whatever music you like/dislike/love/hate.
However, your statement is somewhat in conflict with what you yourself so very repeatedly do, which is making fun of (for a given value of fun, that is), belittle or even insult those who happen to like the music or composers you do not like. If someone states to like Sorabji, Carter or the like there is almost no end to your "funny" remarks. But then lots of people have the tendency to ridicule that what they do not (wish to) understand, in which they succeed only to those of likewise mind. To the rest they ridicule only themselves.
Like what you like, let others like what they like and hey, there may even be some common ground! For the record, I’ve listened to quite some Berio too, and it doesn’t work for me. But I do not wish to use that as a proof that Berio is no good as a composer, for it isn’t proof, but merely my taste.

I would talk more, but i have to start grooming the horse and polishing the carriage for the journey into work tomorrow.

Indeed you often give the impression of being someone as open to new things as the average Amish....

[thalbergmad]

However, your statement is somewhat in conflict with what you yourself so very repeatedly do, which is making fun of (for a given value of fun, that is), belittle or even insult those who happen to like the music or composers you do not like.

Indeed you often give the impression of being someone as open to new things as the average Amish....

Doris, you take things too seriously.

I do not have a scooter.

Thal

[gep]

Doris, you take things too seriously.

Shall I take you less seriously then?

Shall I compare thee to a winter's rain?
Thy art less lovely and less temperate
Than drooping cold on May's buds slain.
Winter's lease, thou didst find a mate..

I do not have a scooter.

So you have to scoot yourself, pity thing!

[thalbergmad]

Shall I take you less seriously then?

Just don't take any notice of anything i say.

Would be best fo both of us.

Thal

[retrouvailles]

Well thanks retrouvailles.... Nice to know that I'm not allowed a *** opinion... you jackarse. There is absolutely nothing wrong with someone saying that they don't like a certain composer, object, flavour, etc.... etc..... BECAUSE IT'S THEIR GOD-DAMN OPINION.

If someone came along and said they didn't like chocolate... Would I lecture them about how there's something psychologically wrong with them? sh*t NO!!! I had to study 20th Century music at University for 2 whole years.... so I've been exposed to everyone from Bartok, Schoenberg to John Adams.... Had I just chosed to dismiss it on a whim - then you'd have every opportunity and reason to lecture me.

I GAVE IT A CHANCE AND I DON'T LIKE IT... That's my personal opinion... I only chose to hate it based on the years of bad music I had to try and endure. And if you can't handle that somone hates 20th Century then DEAL WITH IT!!

Jesus... no need to get so god-damn up-tight about it.

Well, you may have studied it for 2 years, but to that I say that you should study it more. How long have you studied common practice music? Your whole life probably. You haven't given more recent music a good enough chance. Just the fact that you thouhgt Verklärte Nacht was a serial 12 tone piece was enough to inform me of your naïveté. Hit the books, buddy. There's some good music there. And it doesn't end with Bartók, Schoenberg, and Adams, either.

And, for the record, I'm no modernist either, Thal. And Berio was a genius, but a lot of his music is incredibly difficult to listen to, even for me. Pick someone that's easier to listen to if you want to listen to something thats good and modern. Listen to MacMillan.

[thalbergmad]

Listen to MacMillan.

I have scheduled that in for next Saturdays listening hour.

It will be interesting to see what effect it has on my neighbours cat.

Thal

[weissenberg2]

Well, you may have studied it for 2 years, but to that I say that you should study it more. How long have you studied common practice music? Your whole life probably. You haven't given more recent music a good enough chance. Just the fact that you thouhgt Verklärte Nacht was a serial 12 tone piece was enough to inform me of your naïveté. Hit the books, buddy. There's some good music there. And it doesn't end with Bartók, Schoenberg, and Adams, either.

And, for the record, I'm no modernist either, Thal. And Berio was a genius, but a lot of his music is incredibly difficult to listen to, even for me. Pick someone that's easier to listen to if you want to listen to something thats good and modern. Listen to MacMillan.

I think Rautavaara would also be good for someone who does not like modernist stuff that much also Hindemith is not hard to listen to.

[indutrial]

Well, you may have studied it for 2 years, but to that I say that you should study it more. How long have you studied common practice music? Your whole life probably. You haven't given more recent music a good enough chance. Just the fact that you thouhgt Verklärte Nacht was a serial 12 tone piece was enough to inform me of your naïveté. Hit the books, buddy. There's some good music there. And it doesn't end with Bartók, Schoenberg, and Adams, either.

And, for the record, I'm no modernist either, Thal. And Berio was a genius, but a lot of his music is incredibly difficult to listen to, even for me. Pick someone that's easier to listen to if you want to listen to something thats good and modern. Listen to MacMillan.

To me, the opinion of anyone who talks in terms of "I studied this at university, here's my opinion, f**k you" means next to nothing. Sitting through the required lectures for Music History I & II doesn't make a non-adherent expert on anything, be it early, romantic, modern, or post-modern music. I know tons of music students (especially performance majors) who tote around the same been-there-heard-that jaded bulls**t approach to virtually everything they hear and it's the furthest thing from convincing. The way most conservatories condition students as music historians is putrid. I live near some of the best conservatories on the East Coast, and I barely ever go to recitals because it's always the same tired-ass standards (Brahms and Schubert anyone, how about another version of Mozart's Requiem).

Moreover, the problem with students and modern music comes mostly from situations where, instead of easing into unfamiliar territory, listeners have a complete bomb dropped on them, whether it's in the form of some bizarre John Cage spectacle or premature exposure to some stratospheric dissonance from a New Complexity composer. The kiddies on this forum learn to piss and moan about Sorabji, Carter, Finnissy and Boulez before they can make a balanced assessment of Szymanowski, Scriabin, Ives, Schoenberg, or any of the neoclassical composers (who often get ignored by association). Then, of course, plenty of them embrace the ever-f**king minimalists as the only non-alienating bastion of modern composers and classical music inches a bit closer to the abyss.

To answer Retro's question about Kancheli et al., I've long sinced approached most of the ECM-label composers with caution, since 90% of the time, I gotten caught off guard with more Part-like beauty-thons and drones. What disturbs me the most are the composers whose early career shows a creative open-endedness settling into a mid-to-late career which has them churning the lyricism pot until none of the dissonant chunks remain. This is a problem I have with Gorecki's latter-day work, as well as Part's and Vasks'. Their work sounds good, but I don't see how it really puts them on a different plane then tons of electronica composers and soundtrack composers who employ similar tonal methods (albeit not tapping into as much religion and stock 20th-century despair). To be honest, I like some works by all of these composers, and often the performers bring the work to an excellent place, but most often I'm left feeling cold, bored, and taken-for-granted. An added anti-bonus is the sappy fanbase who can't seem to appreciate a modern work unless it makes them shed tears.

[thalbergmad]

I live near some of the best conservatories on the East Coast, and I barely ever go to recitals because it's always the same tired-ass standards (Brahms and Schubert anyone, how about another version of Mozart's Requiem).

I would be interested as to your opinion as to why this is the case.

Thal

[indutrial]

I would be interested as to your opinion as to why this is the case.

Thal

My original comment was directed towards senior recitals and conservatory performances, particularly the ones being held at local conservatories. Of course in NYC and Philly, there's a decent variety of stuff going on, most of which I can't afford to attend. Not too long ago, I had to drive into one of the shittiest parts of Philly to catch an evening of chamber music from twentieth century Russian composers (Smirnov, Firsova, Denisov, Glazunov), but around the suburbs where I live it's all German and Italian music from the 19th century all the time. I honestly don't expect it to ever become the opposite (recitals chock full of Boulez, Carter, etc..), but even within the bounds of classical and romantic/late-romantic fare the programs are often a letdown. The only times that twentieth century works sneak their way into the schedule is when they have something to do with the Holocaust or something (Gorecki's blasted 3rd symphony, for example). The way things are, it would be nice to see at least one performance of something by Debussy, Roussel or Faure, an early Scriabin sonata, or something by Busoni. Indeed, whole swathes of work from before the dreaded 12-tone-row are just as rare. I don't know how to explain why the programming seems to be leveling out in such bland and sucky ways, but it reeks of decadence, social anxiety and intellectual laziness, the same things that make any medium turn to dog feces.

[pies]

And, for the record, I'm no modernist either, Thal.

If you're not a modernist, then who is?  You're one of the biggest proponents of modern music on here.  Looks like we haven't agreed on a definition of the term.

[pies]

a

[birba]

Cyril Scott - pure nonsense.

[retrouvailles]

If you're not a modernist, then who is?  You're one of the biggest proponents of modern music on here.  Looks like we haven't agreed on a definition of the term.

Yes, I am, but I consider myself a person that encourages well-rounded-ness, and with that comes an appreciation for 20th/21st century music. I don't like it when people just cling to just common practice music. But I am not a modernist. I don't push serialism, avant-garde music, new complexity, etc into people unwillingly. I encourage other kinds of new music.

Cyril Scott - pure nonsense.

I happen to love his music, but I can see how he would be hit or miss. And he's already dead, by the way. No use in killing him.

[birba]

Woops!  Got this mixed up with another thread.

[pies]

a

[tanman]

I forgot to mention Alistair Hinton. 

 

[argerichfan]

Andrew Lloyd Webber.

Then again, I'm not sure if he qualifies as a composer.

(I'm sure Malcolm Williamson said "Andrew Lloyd Webber is everywhere - but so is AIDS".)

Well, Lloyd Webber composes so therefore he's on the firing line.  But of course his bank account must be rather healthy, even if he hasn't made the big money since Phantom.

Have you read the recent bio of Malcolm Williamson?  Quite interesting and I think he is up for reassessment.

[argerichfan]

Cyril Scott - pure nonsense.

What makes you say that?  Sorry, I rather enjoy Cyril Scott. 

[retrouvailles]

Have you read the recent bio of Malcolm Williamson?  Quite interesting and I think he is up for reassessment.

I've always enjoyed his music. Where can one read this bio, or purchase it?

[perfect_pitch]

Just the fact that you thouhgt Verklärte Nacht was a serial 12 tone piece was enough to inform me of your naïveté.

Actually - you're the moron... I never stated that Verklarte Nacht was an example of 12 tone music... I stated that I hated it as a piece and it's appalling use of sprechstimme (been a long time since I had to spell it - although it does capture the feel of the man who feels he has been tortured for his crimes in his dreams) I also stated that I hated Schoenberg for his creation of the 12-tone system. I never implied or stated that Verklarte Nacht was 12-tone...

You assume to much and read too little.

I hate to listen to the piece... I'll give you that, and that's my opinion. I tried liking it, but to me melodic lines just seem more pleasing to listen to on the ear... and there's nothing wrong with that.

[retrouvailles]

Actually - you're the moron... I never stated that Verklarte Nacht was an example of 12 tone music... I stated that I hated it as a piece and it's appalling use of sprechstimme (been a long time since I had to spell it - although it does capture the feel of the man who feels he has been tortured for his crimes in his dreams) I also stated that I hated Schoenberg for his creation of the 12-tone system. I never implied or stated that Verklarte Nacht was 12-tone...

You assume to much and read too little.

I hate to listen to the piece... I'll give you that, and that's my opinion. I tried liking it, but to me melodic lines just seem more pleasing to listen to on the ear... and there's nothing wrong with that.

Hahaha! The piece is for string sextet or string orchestra. You really do need to hit the books again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkl%C3%A4rte_Nacht

Surely you are thinking of Pierrot Lunaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierrot_lunaire

Wow, you are too funny. And for the record, there are many melodic lines in both pieces. Just because it isn't whistleable or I IV V I doesn't make it bad either. If I were you, I'd learn to appreciate it (not necessarily like it).

[perfect_pitch]

Hahaha! The piece is for string sextet or string orchestra. You really do need to hit the books again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkl%C3%A4rte_Nacht

Surely you are thinking of Pierrot Lunaire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierrot_lunaire

Sh!t.... you're right.       I'll give you that... I did mistake Pierrot Lunaire for Verklarte Nacht.... Don't know how I missed that. AHHH... Now I know how I mistook them... His 8th song of Pierrot Lunaire is called Night (translation: Nacht) - that's why I confused them... thats the one where he fears moths will cover up the moon and blacken the sky. HOWEVER... You were right... I admit I got them mixed up. My apologies...

Not to worry though - I still hate them both...

[retrouvailles]

Not to worry though - I still hate them both...

Oh well, can't say I didn't try. Schoenberg isn't for everyone, even in his most Romantic. You shouldn't dismiss all music written in the 20th century (not counting the persistent late Romantics) just because of Schoenberg and Bartók though. There's plenty of lovely (yes, even for you) music to be discovered.

[gep]

There's plenty of lovely (yes, even for you) music to be discovered.

Indeed.

Strange that one should dismiss Verklärte Nacht while it is written in the lush chromatism ex Wagner, but then compressed into six voices.
I really can't understand why people so often seem to dismiss eveything after 1900 because it's "difficult" or "ugly", simply because they think, based on some (in)famous composers it's harmonies etc. aren't always simple and beautiful. Try Gesualdo (that's 17th Century), or Ockeghem (15th Century), or even de Machaut (14th Century). Tonality is the harmonic system of, roughly, 1650-1850, but by no means it the main system.
If you try there is so much to be found for every and any taste.
And please, please, PLEASE never go the road of "I don't like it so it is crap". Nobody's taste is or should be the yardstick to determine the value of a work of art. Remember, Beethoven, Wagner and Mahler (to name but three) once were contemporary too, and got the "I can't stand this new stuff". What you like now may have been the runt of their time!

Gep

[argerichfan]

I've always enjoyed his music. Where can one read this bio, or purchase it?

You can find some more info here

[indutrial]

Indeed.

Strange that one should dismiss Verklärte Nacht while it is written in the lush chromatism ex Wagner, but then compressed into six voices.
I really can't understand why people so often seem to dismiss eveything after 1900 because it's "difficult" or "ugly", simply because they think, based on some (in)famous composers it's harmonies etc. aren't always simple and beautiful. Try Gesualdo (that's 17th Century), or Ockeghem (15th Century), or even de Machaut (14th Century). Tonality is the harmonic system of, roughly, 1650-1850, but by no means it the main system.

The problem is that the idea of "beauty" is very heavily indoctrinated from a young age and often becomes integral to a musician's fragile sense of self. I've found that the more of them I meet, the more I can't help but think that the majority of people in the music scene are really just complete f**king cowards who are unerringly defensive of tonality this and tonality that. It's even more of a joke amongst jazz musicians, where the worst conservative practitioners still tout around the terms "in" and "out" even though it's the 21st damned century and not 1962. Should someone remind them that the idea of a twelve-bar blues could be considered "out" to begin with. The same stupidity exists in the classical genre, where certain dissonances are allowed because they're pretty. I've learned over the past ten years to not wholly trust my own ears' immediate reaction to something, since to do so would make me no better than some hedonistic jerk who immediately falls in love with Limp Bizkit because you can pump your fist and mosh to it.

[pk]

Pierrot Lunaire is the musical work that I have listened to most times , and i dont even understand german or normaly listen to this kind of music  I have no interrest of understanding what its about or reading the score, there is just something weirdly magical about it that I never get tired of. There are also a movie to it that I ordered from Amazon, where Pierre Boulez   conducts and Christine Schäfer sings. awsome.

[ahinton]

I forgot to mention Alistair Hinton. 

Somehow you seem to make it quite difficult for anyone to believe that you did...

Best,

Alistair