should i start the fantasie impromptu?

[RappinPhil]

Why must we continue to reward idiotic behavior?

[Twinbee]

It's taken a long time to read the whole of this thread, but I have to say - it was a great read, and very funny
Actually, apart from the humour of the whole thing, many posts gave a good insight into many aspects of piano playing too - something for everyone. Ludwig Van Rachabji, I enjoyed your post earlier in the thread where you managed to learn the Hungarian Rhapsodie # 2 by the ripe old age of 4 (!) and numerous other amazing feats.

Breadboy, if you (or anyone else) wants to try and play the Chopin Fantasie Impromptu, then you might like to read this site of mine titled - "My (optimistic) hope to master Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu":
http://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/chopin.html

I've still yet to update the page for the last entry, but for those who are curious, I scored 61% (the equivalent of a 2:1 in degree terms). It would've been even higher, but I played a fairly weak Maple Leaf Rag which lowered the overall mark down a bit.

Two main tips to help get started with that tricky 4 against 3 rhythm:
a: Tap this rhythm /very slowly/ with 3 in the left hand and 4 in the right. Gradually start to speed up and then slow down again. Now try playing the Impromptu /very slowly/ while you imagine the rhythm at the same time. When you think you've got it right, gradually speed up.

b: So you can hear if you're doing it right, play staccato, without pedal, and it might even help to play the right hand an octave higher so that you the mind can easily distuinguish between the two pitch registers.

Hope this helps!

[puma]

Good idea to keep a log of your practice, especially when conquering a hard piece - it keeps the effort human and reachable.  Take care

[one_wing3d_ang3l]

this piece sux. i finished it in 4 months with 1 year of experience. i used to like it because it was fast, hard and impressive but i was so wrong. it is just nonsense music, it does not reach into your soul. chopin personally disliked it and didnt publish it after death.

[dorfmouse]

Breadboy, if you (or anyone else) wants to try and play the Chopin Fantasie Impromptu, then you might like to read this site of mine titled - "My (optimistic) hope to master Chopin's Fantasie Impromptu":
http://www.skytopia.com/project/articles/chopin.html

I enjoyed reading your blog. Well done and I hope you have a great time at university.
Since you started that project, have you read the many threads on this forum on efficient practising methods, how best to develop speed etc and if so would you now go about learning that piece, or a piece of similar difficulty, in a different way? Just interested!

[lostinidlewonder]

I think ill send money to the American Government to develop some poisonous killing gas which targets this thread.

[musik_man]

I think ill send money to the American Government to develop some poisonous killing gas which targets this thread.

pfffft. You know that this thread will never die.

*bump*

[timothy42b]

Okay, I give up.

I gotta see this music.  Is it out there somewhere?  Any kind soul have a link?

[mound]

http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/compositions_b/imp66.pdf

[LeoBen207]

Hello I'm new to this forum. From what little I see, it's great! I was overwhelmed with emotion when I read a post regarding the fantasie impromptu by chopin. See I have been studying music on my own for about 7 months and I have made some incredible progress  (at least I think... lol) See I have-painstainkly- memorized the Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin! Ofcourse I cannot play it up to tempo yet or both hands together cause I've only been studying it for about a week and half now. The second part I pretty much have both hands together down pat. I'm just having trouble with the whole 4 into 3 thing with the melody first and third parts (DARARA RARA RARA RARA DOON DARARA RARA RARA DOON....LOL).

I was wondering....am I a musical genius? lol. Not that I'm bragging or anything but I can learn a piece very quickly. Some people tell me that it takes a long long time to play some of the pieces that I've been able to memorize. And this is just a hobby for me. Ofcourse I can't read music worth a damn (I still use Every Good Boy Does Fine....lol) and as soon as I "memorize" a piece I quikly forget it when I start with new ones.

Anyway what do you guys think? Great Forum by the way

[mound]

thanks for bring this thread back to life 

Some people tell me that it takes a long long time to play some of the pieces that I've been able to memorize.

having a piece memorized does not imply that you can play it well.

Anyway what do you guys think?

I think it sounds like you have much to learn.

-Pau

[beethoartok]

the impromptu requres much more musical maturity and technical prowess than the fur elise. fur elise is pretty elementary overall. give it a few years.

[nicko124]

I've never been able to figure out why Fantasie Impromptu is as popular as it is, i beleive that Chopin composed so many better pieces which may not be as difficult but certainly nicer than this. However that is just my opinion.

[musik_man]

pfffft. You know that this thread will never die.

*bump*

 

[Chrysalis]

this treath kicks major ass

ok i admit

i have never touched a piano but tomorrow i am going to start with
the feux follets composed by liszt....

is this a good idea? i think i can handle that one EASY!!!!

[beethoartok]

this treath kicks major ass

ok i admit

i have never touched a piano but tomorrow i am going to start with
the feux follets composed by liszt....

is this a good idea? i think i can handle that one EASY!!!!

lol yea... i've never played before!!! but you've just inspired me to learn the hammerklavier sonata and also all of the transcendental etudes!!!!!!!!!! i think i just need couple months!

[mound]

I lost both my hands in a farming accident.  but I want to play this piece, is there a way?

[Chrysalis]

yeah i had that problem too....
they gave me these cool cybernetic arms....

[johnkeller]

Reading this thread was entertaining, but Lets Write a Story gets first place. Btw, I'm glad someone mentioned the danger of injury (RSI, musicians overuse syndrome, tendonitis, ...) Getting this was the worst 5 years of my life. The cause? 3 hours a day trill studies on viola at age 40. May it not happen to you!

[bernhard]

I lost both my hands in a farming accident.  but I want to play this piece, is there a way?

Don’t loose heart! I have just the thing for you. It is called “The virtuoso toe – pianist” by C. Hanon. It consists of 60 exercises that if done everyday are guaranteed to increase and develop equally the strength and independence of your toes to the extent that no virtuoso repertory will be beyond your feet. Just remember to lift your toes high and not move the legs.

Ah, you may also have to adjust your bench height. Keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

[ptmidwest]

Bernhard you (et al.) are imps!

But how do you all have the time to spend here?  I am getting no practicing done...You all must be quicker than I...

[musik_man]

Don’t loose heart! I have just the thing for you. It is called “The virtuoso toe – pianist” by C. Hanon. It consists of 60 exercises that if done everyday are guaranteed to increase and develop equally the strength and independence of your toes to the extent that no virtuoso repertory will be beyond your feet. Just remember to lift your toes high and not move the legs.

Ah, you may also have to adjust your bench height. Keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

You also need to play the in all 24 Major/minor keys, and make sure to play them musically.

[mound]

Don’t loose heart! I have just the thing for you. It is called “The virtuoso toe – pianist” by C. Hanon. It consists of 60 exercises that if done everyday are guaranteed to increase and develop equally the strength and independence of your toes to the extent that no virtuoso repertory will be beyond your feet. Just remember to lift your toes high and not move the legs.

Ah, you may also have to adjust your bench height. Keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

I'll just sit on the top of my upright and play backward.

I wonder what kind of dexterity one could develop in their toes if they actually had no fingers?

[abell88]

I've heard of someone threading a needle and sewing using their toes...thalidomide victims learned to do lots of stuff with their feet.

[bernhard]

So, toe under? Or toe over (cananyone make a video to show the difference?)

[fred smalls]

From what I've read so far:

No.1: The topic of this thread is utter BS! No one can learn the Fantasie Impromtu after 3 months of playing piano. Or any of those other pieces Breadboy was talking about.  Get annnoyed at me!  Any of you who think its possible. ITS NOT! I don't care what everyone here thinks, because it's so easy to lie.

No.2: Lots of funny sarcastic remarks!

No.3: I saw a guy play piano with his feet.  He was born with no arms.  He was surprisingly good too.  Played something around "Fur Elise" difficulty with his feet.

[kilini]

Never say never, Fred. Look at Mozart and Chopin.

[musik_man]

Never say never, Fred. Look at Mozart and Chopin.

I doubt Mozart could have played it after 3 months.  Look at the difficulty of the stuff he composed when he was 6.  A bit easier than the Impromptu.

[kilini]

Keyword composed.

And do you have a link to the sheet music of the stuff he composed back then?

[musik_man]

Keyword composed.

And do you have a link to the sheet music of the stuff he composed back then?

www.music-scores.com  Go to the Mozart page and look at the minuets with really really low K numbers. 

It seems to me that if he could have played much better than that he would have written much harder pieces. 

[Torp]

So, toe under? Or toe over (cananyone make a video to show the difference?)

Oh dear mother of god, I think I just p**d myself laughing. 

[nanabush]

Fantaisie Impromptu, umm ya don't lie saying you can play it after starting piano three months ago, it's guaranteed your lying...  And for people who want to learn it, TAKE YOUR TIME, it's only really hard for 2 pages, because that repeats almost... then middle is way more relaxing..

[Dazzer]

Don’t loose heart! I have just the thing for you. It is called “The virtuoso toe – pianist” by C. Hanon. It consists of 60 exercises that if done everyday are guaranteed to increase and develop equally the strength and independence of your toes to the extent that no virtuoso repertory will be beyond your feet. Just remember to lift your toes high and not move the legs.

Ah, you may also have to adjust your bench height. Keep us posted on your progress.

Best wishes,
Bernhard.

and just how does one pedal?

[chopinisque]

With the arms, of course.

You can't toe under.  Tres impossible.  So Hanon is out of the question.  Try some Czerny.

[musik_man]

and just how does one pedal?

...

with your hands... d'uh

[aajjmb]

I was wondering....am I a musical genius? lol. Not that I'm bragging or anything but I can learn a piece very quickly.

if the only reason you posted was to brag why not leave now.  It would be imposible to play the FI after 5 years let alone 7 months or w/e.  Im not sure whats with this piece but to breadboy:  i have no hands....should i learn the winter wind???

[pseudopianist]

if the only reason you posted was to brag why not leave now.  It would be imposible to play the FI after 5 years let alone 7 months or w/e.  Im not sure whats with this piece but to breadboy:  i have no hands....should i learn the winter wind???

5 years? Well not sure about that. Most people (try) learn after maybe 2,5 or maybe 3 years of piano playing, of course it doesn't sound as good as a proffestiodifndfsdfjsbdf recording but still. I myself learned it after 2 years, sure alot of people can play it better than me but I can play it. 

[fred smalls]

People often neglect to mention how much they practice when telling people how quickly they learnt a piece, or how quickly they got to an advanced level 

[tds]

People often neglect to mention how much they practice when telling people how quickly they learnt a piece, or how quickly they got to an advanced level 

true

[ahmedito]

Well... I saw in a piano compilation a piece titeld Fantasie-Impromtu.... but it only had the middle theme with very simplified accompaniment.... maybe he learnt that, and doesnt know the difference?

[aajjmb]

Well... I saw in a piano compilation a piece titeld Fantasie-Impromtu.... but it only had the middle theme with very simplified accompaniment.... maybe he learnt that, and doesnt know the difference?

hahahahaha lol agreed

[SDL]

Hey Ive been playing with my toes now for 3yrs and Ive just successfully completed that song "toe for tea"or is it "tea for toe" 
I was wondering am I ready for Prokofiev's Toecatta?  Ive seen the music and its quite a feet!  But the Nailson Piano Sonata looks really easy so should I learn this one instep I mean instead.  Hey Bernhard - I tried the toe over method but I kept tripping up!

[pseudopianist]

Well... I saw in a piano compilation a piece titeld Fantasie-Impromtu.... but it only had the middle theme with very simplified accompaniment.... maybe he learnt that, and doesnt know the difference?

Referring to me?

[Rach3]

It's been over a year now... he must have started the Chopin ballades already!

-Rach3

[jlh]

And STILL no recordings!

[SDL]

Yeah Ive learnt fantasie impromptoe!! .  My ankles hurt!

[Rach3]

Yeah Ive learnt fantasie impromptoe!!    My ankles hurt!

You need to keep your ankle and foot relaxed, sounds like you have too much tension. Don't hold your toes up with your legs, let the force of gravity push your toes into the keys.

[Autumndark]

Okay, so after posting i finished up reading the thread.  So . . . ignore everything I've said.  Yeah, frankly I think he;s a moron, or if not, he's as sarcastic as the rest of us . ..  and since it's clear I don't need to be nice to try and explain it to him, I'm going to take this opportunity to have a good laugh at the sheer stupidity of all of this.  If you go on reading after this, I think I sound nicer, but it should probably all be ignored.




Breadboy: but as I learn both hands seperately, perfect them at 120-150 percent of the final speed, then combine them, it shouldn't be that much of a problem until i have to put them together, and by then i should be able to do that

Don't count on it.
2 against 3 is the most common kind of . . . rhythm juxtaposition, and it's very easy compared to 3 against 4 -- or really, as in the case of the Fantasie-Impromptu, 6 against 8.  What tends to happen with this piece is that the left hand becomes uneven and starts sounding a little like iambic pentameter (or, I guess, sextameter).  Unless you get the rhythm ABSOLUTELY solid from the get-go, it's not going to come out right when you play it fast, and since it is entirely possible to listen to either the right hand or left hand melody (I learned this by recording myself playing it), if either one is uneven or doesn't fit correctly, it's going to be obvious. 
I suppose a lot of people recommend learning it the way you're planning to . . . but in my experience, it takes at least twice as long.  Of course, I haven't done both ways, but I know people who learned it the way you've said, and it took them much longer to put it together than it took me to work it up to tempo.
For a straight answer to the question in the original post . . . I would recommend waiting.  Of course, I don't know whether you're an amazing learner . . . but there are lots of showy pieces that are "safer" if you're looking to impress, and you have to be very musical to pull off the inner section compared with the fast parts of this piece, and in my experience, that takes lots of time and experience with the piano.  I'm not claiming to be very musical -- the inner section is probably my worst part of the piece.  Some days it's gorgeous, and some days it sounds boring as hell.
I'm 16 right now, and I've been playing the piano since I was four.  I'm not as good as I should be, largely because I had two bad teachers and had to take some time off at a few intervals, but I have an excellent teacher now.  We decided in October last year that I was going to take my ATCL in June 2005, and he gave me the list of pieces to choose from.  I actually selected fairly randomly, but I wanted to play the Fantasie-Impromptu because I'd heard it once before and it sounded fantastic.   We ended up working on a Mozart first, and I only reminded my teacher about the Fantasie two weeks before I was headed out of the country for a month
He looked at me and said: "If you can't get the rhythm during the first half of this lesson, you had better forget about it."
I got the rhythm. 
I had to relearn some of it when I got back, but all in all, it probably took me about four weeks of hard practice (as in every spare moment) to get this piece up to the right tempo.  And then I taught myself the middle section . . .
Truth be told, I'm pretty pleased with the amout of time I spent on this, because I've seen friends spend three or four months working on it and not be able to play at the speed I can pull off (on good days, as I said  )
The ONLY reason I was able to do this was, as I said, because I NEVER took the hands separately until I didn't have to think about how the rhythm was fitting together.  I had to tape it several times to make sure it was correct . . . but now, I don't even have to think about it.  It just goes.
If you get both hands up to speed separately, you will ALWAYS have to think about how the rhythm fits together.  It's also going to be a problem at the fifth measure, where the right hand comes in -- you're going to want to play the right hand in such a way that the sixteenths are the same value as the left-hand notes had been up to this point. 
I guess my point is a) I would not recommend starting this piece right away (Fur Elise is currently something I am able to sightread at a moderate tempo) and b) if you intend to do it anyway, your proposed method will make it much harder.  If you're set on learning it, at least go about it the most productive way.
And if you find yourself frustrated . . . don't say we didn't warn you!

Ooh . . . and I just saw this:
Breadboy: 8. I'm not going to piddle with a Mozart sonata... I'd rather get to the edge and be playing Godowsky's passacaglia in a few years rather then be worried about the easier stuff now. I always have time to go back and pick up the easy stuff.

This is definitely a sign to me that you're not ready for the Fantasie-Impromptu.  If you think Mozart is easy, you need to have a serious discussion with your piano teacher . . . or since maybe it's their fault, with musicians at large.
Admittedly, you can learn Mozart faster than you can learn, say, Ravel or Bartok.  Possibly also Chopin, but it varies.  But performing Mozart is one of the hardest things you can do.  Many professionals don't DARE to perform Mozart because you have to be ABSOLUTELY accurate.   It doesn't sound like you have played any Mozart in the past . . . or even heard much more than maybe the K.545, or you would realize this.  I suggest listening to K.475 and K.457.  These are considered to be at the same level as the Fantasie-Impromptu, and there's definitely a reason for this.
Even after three months of learning, you have to have SOME understanding of musicality.  If you can't see why Mozart is demanding . . . if you really think it's something to "piddle" with . . . that's, one, a sign that you will probably never play Mozart well, even if you "go back" to it later, because you don't understand it . . . and to me, is also a sign that . . . maybe you aren't really cut out for this.
I'm not trying to be offensive (at least not MUCH) . . . but seriously, you don't patronize Mozart.  That's just stupid.

[Autumndark]

Breadboy said: Big whoop? Are you kidding me? If I can play 7-12 months and be at the level of the Fantasie (a year 8 piece i think) that is one awesome accomplishment. Most teachers wouldn't come close to promising something like that. Even Bernhard doesn't promise that level of sucess that quick.

You keep making me need to add on . . .
If you do succeed in doing this . . . by no means are you "at the level of year 8".  You can play one piece that is at that level . . . but playing any piece is only hard work plus time.  It does not mean that you have improved as a pianist.  The next piece you learn (if at the same level) is going to take you an equal amount of time.  Yes, you might feel accomplishment following it . . . but you will never be able to perform a repertoire at that level, because the time it takes you to learn each piece is far too much.
Improving on the piano is not as much a measure of what you can play as HOW LONG it takes you to master it.
If it takes you 4-6 months to get the F-I up to speed . . . then you are not at the year 8 level.  Technically, anyone can play anything if they spend long enough working on it.  Being at a high level means you can learn something in a REASONABLE period of time - 1-2 months.

Of course, if your goal is not ever to be able to play more than one piece at a time, that's your loss.  Yeah, maybe you'll be playing hard pieces for the rest of your career on the piano . . . but you won't get the rewards that learning properly gives everyone else.

[sergio_claver]

 

PEACE PEOPLE ...

I'm a good piano lover, i bought my piano but is kinda hard to play and read with both hands, hehehe

so the fantasie impromptu, cool, nice, excellent piece, chopin's of course (Matka, moja biedna matka) [‘Mother, my poor mother’]

All of us have the desire of play one day that piece,

COURAGE !!!! MES AMIES !!!

Here!!! , if they can we must try, who knows may be one day  !!!   

http://homepage.mweb.co.th/yuko/page3.html

http://www.geocities.co.jp/MusicHall-Horn/4226/

Go to fantasie and chopin respectively, and must have real player


GREETINGS !!!

SERGIO CLAVER FROM Lima PERU (SOUTH AMERICA)

sergio.claver@gmail.com

HAVE IN MIND:

They are Little so
they have little fingers .....