What's the most dramatic piano piece ever written?

[pianovlad1996]

Hello!
I want to know what is for you the most dramatic piano piece ever written..... Please write the name of the composer and the title/opus of the piece.

[mlbbaseball]

Chopin Bourree no. 2

lol. jk

[nanabush]

I'll offer some suggestions that would probably come up before this thread either becomes an argument or changes topics:

-Chopin "Ballade #1 in G minor Op. 23"
-Rachmaninoff "Preludes Op 23 #4 and Op 32 #12 (D major and G# minor, respectively)"
-Ravel "Ondine from Gaspard de la Nuit"
-Beethoven "Sonata Pathetique Op. 13, 1st Movement"
-Shostakovich "Prelude and Fugue in D minor, #24"

Those pieces would be a good start; from this, try listening to other pieces from similar composers/sets/opuses, and you'll probably find something new too!

...to people who are going to post random crap, he seems to be a new member, and hasn't sifted through the millions of older pages.  So let's cut him some slack please?

[pianovlad1996]

Thank you for your posts. 

[carl_h]

Chopin Piano Sonata No. 2
Liszt Ballade No. 2
Scriabin Etude Op. 8 No. 12 / Impromptu Op. 12 No. 2

...There are tons more

[redbaron]

Brahms - Scherzo in Eb minor Op 4
Brahms - Ballade in D minor Op 10, No 1
Brahms - Rhapsody in G minor Op 79, No 2
Brahms - Ballade in G minor Op 118, No 3
Mussorgsky - The Hut on Fowl's Legs from Pictures
Balakirev - Toccata in C#minor
Rachmaninov - Prelude in G minor Op 23, No 5
Ravel - Scarbo from Gaspard de la Nuit

Brahms wrote quite a lot of dramatic music in general

[djealnla]

How do you define "dramatic"? "Intense"?

As the "standard repertoire" for the piano won't be (nor is) missing here, I'll nominate Sorabji's Solo Concerto, Piano Symphony No. 4 and Finnissy's 4th Piano Concerto.

[redbaron]

How do you define "dramatic"? "Intense"?

Give me strength. There's always one isn't there...?


The poster did stipulate that they want to know what the most dramatic piece is for you, not according to some general conscencus of what constitutes drama.

[djealnla]

Give me strength. There's always one isn't there...?

You are misunderstanding my post. I did not seek to exhibit the "there is no greatest/saddest/hardest piece" attitude, but rather asking what is meant by the adjective "dramatic". That should be rather clear.

The poster did stipulate that they want to know what the most dramatic piece is for you, not according to some general conscencus of what constitutes drama.

A general consensus (not "conscencus") is necessary. Why do you think dictionaries exist?

[pianisten1989]

A general consensus (not "conscencus") is necessary. Why do you think dictionaries exist?

So that know-it-all people can live their life by correcting other's spelling mistakes (on the internet) and being wise asses about what "Dramatic" is. Hmm, me tink it is a final movement from a Haydn sonata )
 

[redbaron]

A general consensus (not "conscencus") is necessary. Why do you think dictionaries exist?

Give me strength. There's always one isn't there...?

[djealnla]

Give me strength. There's always one isn't there...?

Well, since it's so obvious, then please define the word "dramatic". I hope it does not differ from the definition of anyone else who has so far contributed with an opinion to this thread, because then you will have proven my point.

[thalbergmad]

Give me strength. There's always one isn't there...?

On this forum, I think there are two.

Thal

[djealnla]

So that know-it-all people can live their live by correcting other's spelling mistakes (on the internet) and being wise asses about what "Dramatic" is. Hmm, me tink it is a final movement from a Haydn sonata )
 

Frankly, I'm not sure how reply to this post.

Wait, I'll be polite:

I'm not trying to be "wise". That's not possible, since I did not give a definitive definition of the word "dramatic". I'm merely seeking to ensure that we are all talking about the same thing. Surely a constructive discussion is better than a vague one.

Also, I do not understand why you are insulting me and Haydn (Franz Joseph, of course).

[djealnla]

On this forum, I think there are two.

Thal

I understand you enjoy making jokes, but I hope that you are reasonable enough to recognize that my posts are being muddied between shallow insults and "infuriated" posts by people who believe it's not necessary to define anything.

[thalbergmad]

I understand you enjoy making jokes, but I hope that you are reasonable enough to recognize that my posts are being muddied between shallow insults a "infuriated" posts by people who believe it's not necessary to define anything.

Before I respond to this, can we agree on a definitive definition of the word "to".

I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

Thal

[ahinton]

can we agree on a definitive definition

Just out of (a lack of) interest, what's the difference between one of these and a tautological tautology?

Best,

Alistair

[sordel]

I'll offer some suggestions that would probably come up before this thread either becomes an argument or changes topics:

It's the early bird that catches that particular worm. Come on guys ... there must be a lot of people here who are more interested in discussing points than scoring them.

[redbaron]

Before I respond to this, can we agree on a definitive definition of the word "to".

I want to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

Thal

I think Thal makes an excellent point 

[pianisten1989]

Also, I do not understand why you are insulting me and Haydn (Franz Joseph, of course).

How is that an insult? If Haydn wanted to write a very dramatic piece (sorry if you don't understand what I mean..) he probably could.

Why I insult you? Well, I would more say "Make fun of", but you do that very well yourself, so I don't really need to. However, you didn't really give me any choice.

And I also want to make sure that we come up with One (1) definition of the dot (.). I want to make sure we all know what we're talking about... 

Now I will go and listen to something that a dear super famous friend wrote yesterday. I don't listen to anything but super modern music. Because of that, I am better than everybody else.

[sordel]

And I also want to make sure that we come up with One (1) definition of the dot (.). I want to make sure we all know what we're talking about... 

Can we come up with a definition of flogging a dead horse some time as well?

[thalbergmad]

Now I will go and listen to something that a dear super famous friend wrote yesterday. I don't listen to anything but super modern music. Because of that, I am better than everybody else.

I take it you are referring to my duo concertante for donkey testicles and the electromagnetic energy from quasar APM 08279+5255. It is written on 260,000 stave paper and takes 3.6 million years for a complete performance.

I did not think it would be of any interest to you. It was written for pedants, spelling correctors and people who would not cut their toenails until they had read a 600 page definition of the word clippers.

Thal

[pianisten1989]

That darn old piece? No! That's at least several days old! I was thinking of the monumental "Opusium Choiricombum for silence, 2 frogs and a dead tree" it takes between 1 sec and a trillion years to complete. You'll recognize it by listening to the long fermata the dead tree is holding until the silence comes in with a great forte. It was written tomorrow... That's how modern it is!

[thalbergmad]

That is not modern, my "Missa pro foetida canis bombulum" has been written next week and it is better than yours as it has more Latin words, so some walking encyclopedia with the common sense of a marigold can come and correct the grammar.

Thal

[sordel]

Over thirteen thousand posts of this garbage, Thal ... you must be so proud.

[pianisten1989]

Well.. My title isn't even real words! They are bloody post-languagism! Since it's a both post and an -ism I just made up, it's better than anything. I don't care if only I care about the music, that means that I am better and more intelligent than you!

[thalbergmad]

Over thirteen thousand posts of this garbage, Thal ... you must be so proud.

Yeh, I am proud actually. I have spent 6 years imparting my wisdom to the good people of this forum.

I can't help thinking that you might enjoy it more here:

https://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php?sid=0dec36ead72d67dd9670b6cc2992daf2

I have heard the spelling and grammar is much better than on this forum and I cannot speak highly enough about some of the definitions.

30,000 pages discussing the word "and".

Priceless.

[thalbergmad]

Well.. My title isn't even real words! They are bloody post-languagism! Since it's a both post and an -ism I just made up, it's better than anything. I don't care if only I care about the music, that means that I am better and more intelligent than you!

Old hat mate. Seen it, done it and got the T shirt.

What you are discussing is so 9.30pm 28th June 2011 Greenwich Mean Time.

Thal

[pianisten1989]

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Anyhow, I'll probably add some pieces:

Liszt- B-minor sonata
Scriabin: Etude op 42/5

[thalbergmad]

All I can say to you is that you WILL be wrong as what I am discussing is more modern.

Thal

[ahinton]

Yeh, I am proud actually. I have spent 6 years imparting my wisdom to the good people of this forum.

I can't help thinking that you might enjoy it more here:

https://www.sorabji-archive.co.uk/forum/index.php?sid=0dec36ead72d67dd9670b6cc2992daf2

I have heard the spelling and grammar is much better than on this forum and I cannot speak highly enough about some of the definitions.

30,000 pages discussing the word "and".

Priceless.

Not so much "priceless" as "non-existent", as far as I am aware; what is the source of your evidence for this absurd claim? That's right - none! There's not even a section devoted to a discussion of Thals, Neander and otherwise.

Anyway, what's all this got to do with "the most dramatic piano piece ever written"? (but then what's anything got to do with such a woolly notion?)...

I understand that the temperature on Gravesend yesterday reached 33.1 degrees; I hope that you have not suffered any heatstroke as a consequence.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I cannot respond to you until I have a thesis on "absurd".

Thal

[ahinton]

I cannot respond to you until I have a thesis on "absurd".

If that is genuinely the case, the shortcomings are yours alone but, if that word and its use in the context concerned is really such a problem for you, you could - rather than wait for a non-forthcoming thesis thereon - re-read the sentence in which I used it as though that word were absent and then try to answer the question as to the source for your evidence for the said claim - unless, that is, you find yourself unable to do so without copious prior explanations of such words as "what", "source", "evidence" and "claim", in which most unlikely case the ability of most people to communicate with you in English would be well-nigh impossible.

Over to you.

Best,

Alistair

[redbaron]

Can I come out now? I take it the spelling-correcting, pedantic, definition-seeking dullards of the Street have temporarily been vanquished?

[ahinton]

Can I come out now? I take it the spelling-correcting, pedantic, definition-seeking dullards of the Street have temporarily been vanquished?

I have no idea, but I have already urged that notice be take of the thread topic and that it be responded to directly (for what it may or may not be worth to do so) rather than ignored.

Best,

Alistair

[redbaron]

Which one's that then?

[ahinton]

Which one's that then?

What one's what when? If you mean which of my messages implies a recommendation to return to discussion of the thread topic, try reading between the lines of #30; if not, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Best,

Alistair

[pianisten1989]

If you take the time to read the responses , you will see why we make fun of you people... But I guess that's too much to ask for from such a superior species as yourself.

[thalbergmad]

Well said that man.

I say that whilst realising that your musical tastes are out of date.

Thal

[ahinton]

If you take the time to read the responses , you will see why we make fun of you people... But I guess that's too much to ask for from such a superior species as yourself.

Would you care to clarify here to whom you refer by the pronoun "you"? and in what context? Who is in any case "making fun" of whom - and where and how are they allegedly doing so? Whatever the answers to these questions (if indeed there are to be any such answers), it is becoming increasingly obvious that a return to discussion of the thread topic as distinct from a continuation of the kinds of irrelevant exchange in which you appear to be participating instead would, as I have already stated, be a good idea (subject, of course, to whether the thread topic is even amenable to intelligent discussion in the first place, of course).

Best,

Alistair

[sordel]

I say that whilst realising that your musical tastes are out of date.

That's an interesting moment of clarity, Thal ... I do hope that you read back your posts when you are sober.

One reason why your jokes regarding contemporary music are so pitifully thin is that you are parodying the way that titles were given to works by a Postromantic Neoclassical composer who died in 1988. If you really wanted to parody contemporary works you would come up with titles such as "Konstruct no. 32" or "Flood". What contemporary composer uses that sort of Latin title, other than the ones writing ecclesiastical works (already an indication of a somewhat old-fashioned caste)? As a satirist, you miss your target by a century.

[gep]

I listened to Liszt's Sonata in b recently, as played by Alexander Uninsky (on a very ancient Philips LP; I do not think it has ever been reissued on CD). Whether it is "the most dramatic piano piece ever written" I do not know, and I would not know of any objective ways to measure such a thing, but this sonata does make quite an impression on me.

Sorry to so bluntly put on a message that is actually more or less in line with the subject of this tread...

all best,
gep

[ahinton]

I listened to Liszt's Sonata in b recently, as played by Alexander Uninsky (on a very ancient Philips LP; I do not think it has ever been reissued on CD). Whether it is "the most dramatic piano piece ever written" I do not know, and I would not know of any objective ways to measure such a thing, but this sonata does make quite an impression on me.

Sorry to so bluntly put on a message that is actually more or less in line with the subject of this tread...

Don't worry - there are said to be people on this board who might even consider forgiving you for such an intrusion!

The Liszt Sonata, for all that it is widely over-played, is indeed a most significant achievement and a work of immense emotional and intellectual power; its handling of form alone, though not quite unique in Liszt's output, is certainly a prime example of Liszt's resourcefulness and inventiveness and is remarkably concentrated and concise. Wagner was profoundly impressed by it. If only it were one of Liszt's 32 piano sonatas! Never mind - we should be (and I'm sure most of us here are) deeply grateful that there is at least this one!

Best,

Alistair

[pianisten1989]

Would you care to clarify here to whom you refer by the pronoun "you"? and in what context? Who is in any case "making fun" of whom - and where and how are they allegedly doing so? Whatever the answers to these questions (if indeed there are to be any such answers), it is becoming increasingly obvious that a return to discussion of the thread topic as distinct from a continuation of the kinds of irrelevant exchange in which you appear to be participating instead would, as I have already stated, be a good idea (subject, of course, to whether the thread topic is even amenable to intelligent discussion in the first place, of course).

Best,

Alistair

I rest my case.
 Though, I'm not sure what you mean by "best" Is it a tribute to George Best? Or is it maybe "The best - Alistair" or what, I don't get it? :S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S

[redbaron]

I rest my case.

Thank you pianisten1989, you have made my morning!  

[thalbergmad]

We are right to mock the pedants and everytime they respond to one of our posts, they give us more material to do so.

Thal

[sordel]

One reason that I haven't posted a work to this thread is that I can't think of a more dramatic work than one mentioned by Nanabush straight away: the 24th prelude & fugue by Shostakovich.

What people find dramatic in Rachmaninoff or Chopin, I tend to see as theatrical, because they are not so much to my taste. By contrast, there are pieces such as the Sarabande from Bach's first French Suite that I find very dramatic, but another listener - more temperamentally inclined to Romantic music - might find restrained.

While there would be a lot of agreement on what characteristics represent drama in music, there's enough relativism (by which I mean: definition relative to a style or period) for there still to be quite a lot of legitimate disagreement.

[ahinton]

Well, well; I wrote

"Would you care to clarify here to whom you refer by the pronoun "you"? and in what context? Who is in any case "making fun" of whom - and where and how are they allegedly doing so? Whatever the answers to these questions (if indeed there are to be any such answers), it is becoming increasingly obvious that a return to discussion of the thread topic as distinct from a continuation of the kinds of irrelevant exchange in which you appear to be participating instead would, as I have already stated, be a good idea (subject, of course, to whether the thread topic is even amenable to intelligent discussion in the first place, of course)"

and, rather than answer any of those questions and/or return to the thread topic, the "best" (sorry that you appear not to understand the meaning of that word, but it's the most appropriate one in the circumstances) that you can do is to write

"I rest my case"

which, whilst possibly being a welcome hint that you're about to give up writing this kind of stuff, is pretty pointless, since you have yet to raise a case that could be rested.

Though, I'm not sure what you mean by "best" Is it a tribute to George Best? Or is it maybe "The best - Alistair" or what, I don't get it? :S:S:S:S:S:S:S:S

What you are allegedly unsure about in terms of specific meanings and what you do or do not allegedly "get" are not matters over which I can declare either interest or influence; they're your problems, if anyone's.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

One reason that I haven't posted a work to this thread is that I can't think of a more dramatic work than one mentioned by Nanabush straight away: the 24th prelude & fugue by Shostakovich.

Since you mention him, what about his Fourth Symphony?

Best,

Alistair

[mnmleung]

One piece that came to my mind is 'In der Nacht' from Robert Schumann's Fantasiestücke, Op. 12