Sin

[m1469]

Do you believe there is such a thing?  Some -any- need to be accountable for our actions. thoughts, motives, and our being.  Or, are we rather just forever somewhat hidden and hideable?

[outin]

Do you believe there is such a thing?  Some -any- need to be accountable for our actions.  Or, are we rather just forever hidden?

No, for me the word sin means nothing. But we are still accountable in many ways, to ourselves mainly, but also to others as social animals...unless we are sociopaths, then it doesn't really matter what we do.

[Bob]

Not so much.

I'd question who's setting up rules that apply to everything/everyone all the time.


We're responsible for our actions though.  I'd say sin is if you know something will produce a negative result but do it anyway.

Even then doing something "good" can produce negative consequences.  And doing something out of self-interest, like greed, can produce positive results, too.

"Sin" just implies too much to me. Religion, someone telling everyone what to do, people not having to do their own thinking, etc.  Plus the situation you end up in when someone has "sinned."  Are they out for good?  If they repent, does that make them better than someone who didn't sin in the first place?  


I'd go with think for yourself, golden rule, try do good, etc.

[birba]

What is this with m1469's philosophical queries?  She's tossed 4 gigantic stones into the pond, at once.   What are HER feelings about these questions.  Or is she just monitoring the discussion...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

No, for me the word sin means nothing. But we are still accountable in many ways, to ourselves mainly, but also to others as social animals...unless we are sociopaths, then it doesn't really matter what we do.

Yeah, what she said.

[Derek]

If sin simply means, conforming or not conforming to a certain set of moral ideals as the root cause of deep and abiding happiness, then yes, it definitely exists. If sin means, making god condemn or not condemn you, well, that's between you and God I suppose. But the former idea still holds in that case.

[m1469]

I don't believe there's a certain character who eternally damns us.  I think that even those who appear to be the most horrible people imaginable have the opportunity for growth throughout eternity.  But, I do think we are actually accountable for everything within our being, from the very core and in every detail.  What that means to me, at this time, is that I believe we are seemingly capable of experiencing varying qualities of resonance with life.  Similarly, instruments of high quality are those whose entire build is in harmony with itself, allowing it to fully resonate, and also in conjunction with principles upon which it is built.  I think we are similar to that, and that it's possible to think and do things that "miss the mark," sometimes even building what we think of as an entire life upon that.   I believe that we actually each possess a deep need or desire to be as resonant with life as possible, and that ultimately this desire will cause us to continue to grow out of old ways.  I don't think everybody just understands what that desire is, though, and could mistake it for even simple things like the desire for cigarettes, the desire for food that isn't necessary, etc..

[ahinton]

Speaking as a composer, the principal problem that I have with the notion of "sin" is that it's not always quite as "original" as some people try to make it out to be...

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

Probably a simplified way of thinking about the world, something like a parent telling a child what to do, so peasant could understand that and be controlled that way.

[m1469]

Speaking as a composer, the principal problem that I have with the notion of "sin" is that it's not always quite as "original" as some people try to make it out to be...

Best,

Alistair

In a type of Mathematical way or in dealing with Principles, I think the generally believed concept of "original sin" boils down to being the (only) sin, in and of itself.

[iansinclair]

Of course sin exists: sin may be defined most simply (and with the least religious input, which can be difficult) as an action or a thought contrary to whatever one's moral or ethical code is.  The only way to not have sin is to have no morals or ethics.

Now if one starts to talk about "original sin", for example, or the need for repentance and forgiveness, never mind how one achieves that, one gets rather quickly into questions of religion and faith; perhaps not the wisest topics to wander off onto in a forum.

That said, however, and sticking to the lowest common denominator definition above, I venture to say that there is not one among us who has not, does not, and will not continue to sin.

[emill]

on a lighter vein, sinning is much more FUN!!

On that light, the philospher St. Agustine was overheard to have said ... "Lord make me pure ,,,, but NOT YET!!"

[emill]

sorry double post!!

[oxy60]

From a musical point of view check out Tannhauser. Did he actually commit the unforgiveable sin?

[birba]

Apparently so.  Lust.  One of the 7 capital sins.  Why they get all hung up on carnal pleasure is beyond me.

[pts1]

Yes m1469

It was a sin when you tried to lie and cheat your way to win the competition AJ held a couple of months ago.

Accusing keypeg of stealing your recording, modifying it and re-submitting as his own was a real-life sin.

Maintaining this lie and slandering everyone who disagreed was also a sin.

And refusing to admit to these sins was yet another sin.

Refusing to apologize to Keypeg in particular and all the participants in the competition for your horrible behavior was also a sin.

And now, appearing back on PianoStreet pretending that you did nothing and attempting to re-popularize yourself with your pseudo spiritual loony babbling is also a sin.

And no doubt you will continue to ignore or deny these facts which will be another sin.

A pyramid of lies built upon a foundation of poor character, deceit and arrogance.

I wonder what damage you do to people in your real life?

So you are a fine example of unrepentant every day run of the mill  sin.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Yes m1469

It was a sin when you tried to lie and cheat your way to win the competition AJ held a couple of months ago.

Accusing keypeg of stealing your recording, modifying it and re-submitting as his own was a real-life sin.

Maintaining this lie and slandering everyone who disagreed was also a sin.

And refusing to admit to these sins was yet another sin.

Refusing to apologize to Keypeg in particular and all the participants in the competition for your horrible behavior was also a sin.

And now, appearing back on PianoStreet pretending that you did nothing and attempting to re-popularize yourself with your pseudo spiritual loony babbling is also a sin.

And no doubt you will continue to ignore or deny these facts which will be another sin.

A pyramid of lies built upon a foundation of poor character, deceit and arrogance.

I wonder what damage you do to people in your real life?

So you are a fine example of unrepentant every day run of the mill  sin.

She did that?!  No freaking way! 

Don't worry m1469, I got your back.

[pts1]

She did that?!  No freaking way! 

Yes, way!

Here's the original thread, though the administrator deleted all of m1469's  hateful posts after she went nuts with her paranoid accusations. (about 3 pages were deleted containing her crazy rants and the responses they engendered)

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=49444.0

Of course, you can ask anyone involved in the thread and I'm sure they'll confirm what I'm telling you in a PM

P2U, Ajspiano, Keypeg etc

You'll get the gist of the uproar she caused, however, with the remains of the thread, with attempts of people to prove to her Keypeg did not "steal" her recording and submit it as his own. And there is even her original accusation and some of her loony arguing with people far more qualified and intelligent than her.

She lost the competition and was permanently banned from participating in any more competitions AJ planned on.

I'm sure she'll continue to lie about what she did, but then that's the quality of her character.

She has some real psychological problems, IMHO, and I'm sure the other participants in the thread would agree.

But if you want to "have her back" then that's up to you.

Me, I don't like unrepentant and manipulative liars and cheats.

Suggest you check it out if you're interested in the facts.

[birba]

I have a feeling she's here under more than one alias...

[pts1]

I have a feeling she's here under more than one alias...

Hadn't thought of that, but may well be true.

I recall your name in the thread, so I'm sure you recall reading through all of her nastiness and the unanimous and appropriate disgust she inspired.

I'm really a bit surprised she didn't get kicked off PianoStreet.

[ajspiano]

I'm really a bit surprised she didn't get kicked off PianoStreet.

I rather suspect she did. If memory serves me correctly SMforum software allows the admin to enforce a ban of a set time limit. I note that she practically evaporated immediately following the thread clean up.

She had been a reasonably valuable contributor for some 5000 posts, I suspect nils may have taken that into consideration before issuing a total permanent ban.

[timothy42b]

She had been a reasonably valuable contributor for some 5000 posts, I suspect nils may have taken that into consideration before issuing a total permanent ban.

I agree.  I've known her on this forum for about nine years now, and have been totally surprised by her recent behavior.  It seems very uncharacteristic.  Something must have happened. 

[oxy60]

Apparently so.  Lust.  One of the 7 capital sins.  Why they get all hung up on carnal pleasure is beyond me.

Thank you Birba for keeping this discussion on a higher level.

However, aren't those seven capital sins forgivable? The unforgivable sin is mentioned is each of the three Gospels in a way that is difficult to interpret. I think the townsfolk took offense at how he referred to the madame as a goddess. 

If it wasn't for carnal pleasure none of us would be here.

[dima_76557]

The unforgivable sin is mentioned is each of the three Gospels in a way that is difficult to interpret.

I am too young to understand deeply, but in context of Bible, unforgivable sin seems to be deliberate refusal to believe, even though knowing the truth. Blind ignorance is not sin, but willful rejection is. Hope that is clear.

[thalbergmad]

Original sin is not cleaning your banjos.

Thal

[ahinton]

Original sin is not cleaning your banjos.

It would be quite an original one indeed, but hardly "original" in the sense of being the fons et origo of sins; after all, banjos don't go back all that far in history. Not only that, the sheer number of people who do not own banjos and are accordingly free from sin must be enormous!

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

It would be quite an original one indeed, but hardly "original" in the sense of being the fons et origo of sins; after all, banjos don't go back all that far in history. Not only that, the sheer number of people who do not own banjos and are accordingly free from sin must be enormous!

Best,

Alistair

As I own both a banjo AND an accordion, I guess I'm sunk. 

[thalbergmad]

You have immediately gone up in my estimation.

Thal

[timothy42b]

Plus recorders in sizes from garklein to tenor (no bass or contra, yet); three trombones, a mellophone, two trumpets, an old Martin euphonium, and I'm pretty sure there's an autoharp somewhere but I haven't seen it in a long time.

I bought a ukulele for my daughter last year and she's having a great time with it. 

[thalbergmad]

I bought a ukulele for my daughter last year and she's having a great time with it. 

A most excellent idea. Here in jolly England, the ukulele seems to have taken over from the recorder as the first instrument to be taught to youngsters at school.

However, it has to be said that the banjolele is the superior instrument in tone and volume, albeit some of the strumming techniques are extremely tricky.

Thal

[oxy60]

We were  having trouble getting a ukulele to match with the rest of the band so we put a special pick-up on it and split the output. It has a special quality in the high end giving a sort of obligato effect. Our player was top notch so the result was spectacular!

On the beach around the fire ring a ukulele is always great fun. Now could we please find a more interesting repertoire...

[pts1]

It appears this thread has taken a turn attempting to avoid sin with an instrumental approach.

If this is the case, I heartily recommend the "hand saw" as instrument of choice.

Immediately it has several advantages regarding "sins".

Gluttony --- No problem, they aren't edible

Envy -- Do you envy this guy?

Pride -- Not likely... slim chance one's going end up playing "first saw" in the Berlin Philharmonic.

Greed -- How many saws can one own?

Sloth -- Its not easy to play the saw, especially the advanced repertoire e.g. Godowsky trascriptions of the Chopin Etudes for cross cut saw

Lust -- Too many teeth and too kinky

Wrath -- Now this could be a problem -- "lady sawed in half" comes to mind.

And last but not least, supposedly Jesus was a carpenter so how can you go wrong playing the same instrument he did?

The instant Saint Peter sees you at the gates with your saw, you're home free. (Heaven, I hear is also in need of remodeling, so again, if you can play AND saw then all's the better)

[birba]

very very clever, pts1!  I enjoyed that.   

[timothy42b]

Nicely done!

I'm going to nitpick one sentence, as it is Holy Week for Christians.

And last but not least, supposedly Jesus was a carpenter so how can you go wrong playing the same instrument he did?

The bible never says Jesus was a carpenter.  There is only one reference that refers to him as "son of a carpenter."  It is possible that he, too, was a carpenter, but there is no biblical basis whatsoever for that. 

[pts1]

The bible never says Jesus was a carpenter.

Well, I'm always aware of the fact that here on Pianostreet there is a large, intelligent and diversely educated and experienced audience, so I try and be careful about putting my foot in my mouth too much.

That's why I said "supposedly" i.e. "... supposedly Jesus was a carpenter..."

But this may be scant protection from the red pencil of an expert nitpicker! 

Nevertheless, glad you enjoyed the bit!

All in good fun!

[ahinton]

Nicely done!

I'm going to nitpick one sentence, as it is Holy Week for Christians.

The bible never says Jesus was a carpenter.  There is only one reference that refers to him as "son of a carpenter."  It is possible that he, too, was a carpenter, but there is no biblical basis whatsoever for that.

Pianistimo would know, almost certainly.

What's curious, though, is how a thread on sin has led to references to banjos, ukuleles and the like, the very thought of writing for any of which fills me with something no so very far from sheer horror - sorry, Thal!

Best,

Alistair

[g_s_223]

[timothy42b]

Pianistimo would know, almost certainly.

Pianistimo would "know," and she would be VERY certain.  She might not however be right. 

That's really a curious state - the degree of perceived certainty for some people.  It's more obvious in the religious, but not by any means limited to them. 

[ahinton]

Pianistimo would "know," and she would be VERY certain.  She might not however be right. 

That's really a curious state - the degree of perceived certainty for some people.  It's more obvious in the religious, but not by any means limited to them.

Indeed. I stand (or rather sit) corrected; I should have written that Pianistimo would claim to know.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Pianistimo would "know," and she would be VERY certain.  

I think my favourite was the 4,000 year old Grand Canyon.

You could not make it up.

Thal

[timothy42b]

I had forgotten that one.  Hee, hee.  There were plenty more like it, out of 12143 posts.

But I see she hasn't been active since August of 2010.  At least, not under that login name.

[ahinton]

I think my favourite was the 4,000 year old Grand Canyon.

You could not make it up.

"You" could not; nor could I or many others; some people obviously can, though...

Best,

Alistair

[roseamelia]

Sin is perfectly real people! How can you not see that? Read your Bibles! I'm a Christian just so you know! Sin is the worst thing in life!

Genesis 4:7
If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door. Its desire is for you, but you must rule over it.”

Destroy that sin in you! I know it is in me and all of it will never be destroyed but I turn the the Lord MY God to flush it out. God has blessed me with so many things. Turn to him everyone, just cause you read your bible does NOT mean your a christian! Pray and ask for forgiveness of your sins and be delivered into his hands.  That is what easter was about and still is he died for YOU on that cross he took YOUR sins away!! Just think about it. Your life is much better in HIS hands. I want you to think and read that bible of yours! I want to see you turn on his side right now! (No offense on this post)

-Rose

[thalbergmad]

I want you to think and read that bible of yours!

No thanks, I could not stand it again.

I no longer run my life based on the teachings of a 2,000 year old book of fairy stories.

Thal

[roseamelia]

No thanks, I could not stand it again.

I no longer run my life based on the teachings of a 2,000 year old book of fairy stories.

You are totally missing out thal. If it makes you feel like your a no good person reading the Bible you have the wrong view of it! God loves you.

[roseamelia]

God uses the Bible to teach you!

Psalms 14:1

The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”
    They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds,
    there is none who does good.

See don't let the fool part hit you! He is trying to teach you. We are all fools none of  us are perfect except him. see the part 'There is none who does good' that goes for me  and the WHOLE earth

[roseamelia]

We may do good little deeds often but we still have evil things in our heart. 

[ahinton]

Destroy that sin in you!

It is not, for example, possible to uncompose those things which one has composed. I've not been especially prolific, but that's hardly the point; if I have "sinned" by so doing (wrong thoughts and all that stuff), how can I do anything about that retrospectively? (that's hopefully a rhetorical question, incidentally)...

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

She's BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thalbergmad]

If it makes you feel like your a no good person reading the Bible you have the wrong view of it!

It does nothing of the sort. It just angers me when I consider the hold that it has had over millions of people.

Thal