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Yuja Wangs dresses... (Read 21280 times)

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #200 on: March 18, 2018, 04:40:31 PM »
Okay and?

Who cares if people thinks she's the best or not?  Why does that even matter?  Classical music is ENTERTAINMENT people go to a concert to be ENTERTAINED.  

This talk about who's the best or who's better or who's not a good pianist is completely stupid and you're stupid for using that as an excuse to bash her clothing.  I expect more from someone who's old and is supposed to have wisdom but clearly in this situation you have the mentality of a 12 year old.

I agree
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #201 on: March 18, 2018, 05:51:47 PM »
Perhaps she sounds like a typewriter when she dresses like a sexy secretary.

Personally, i think how she dresses sometimes cheapens the art that has made her wealthy. As time begins to take its inevitable toll, perhaps her dresses will be revealing less and her talent more.

She is a great pianist but far from the best out there and dressing up like a street corner slag might be the only reason that history remembers her. Of course, only time will tell.
A very pragmatic response with which I agree entirely; thank you for that.

One issue here is that, however she might dress for a public performance, many people will listen to her mostly on recordings (as is the case with all performers) and, when they do, all that they'll be able to respond to is the quality of her piano playing, its virtues and its shortcomings - the apparel simply won't figure.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #202 on: March 18, 2018, 08:06:37 PM »
And the thing is you're not even comparing her cause of her music you're just taking shots at her ONLY because of the way she dresses.
Excuse me, but Thal wrote
"She is a great pianist but far from the best out there".

I presume that you didn't read that.

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Alistair
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Offline clouseau

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #203 on: March 18, 2018, 11:24:11 PM »
Guys...
Yuja is super-sexy AND plays awesome piano.Thats the facts.

GET OVER IT FOR GODS SHAKE!

Stop posting nonsense. Let's talk about music.
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #204 on: March 19, 2018, 06:17:49 AM »
Once in my seat, I usually shut my eyes a minute or so into the performance - fwiw.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #205 on: March 19, 2018, 12:59:20 PM »
Once in my seat, I usually shut my eyes a minute or so into the performance - fwiw.
A wise decision, to my mind.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #206 on: March 19, 2018, 01:00:32 PM »
Do you think bashing others because of how they look makes you look better?
Did he suggest anything of the kind? If so, I must admit that I failed to notice.

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #207 on: March 19, 2018, 04:16:36 PM »
I read the entire post otherwise I would not have commented on it.

You wrote
"And the thing is you're not even comparing her cause of her music you're just taking shots at her ONLY because of the way she dresses."

For the to be the case, Thal would have had to avoid all mention of her playing and write only about her dress sense. But plainly it wasn't and isn't.

Best,

Alistair

Find me one thing he said about her playing I'll wait. 

"She's a great pianist but far from the best out there" isn't a comment on her playing if the reason why you say she's overrated is because of her choice of clothing so no that doesn't count.

EVEN IF HE DID say something about her playing whether or not I said ONLY is completely irrelevant.

That's like me saying I only play Steinway but you happen to find ONE time I played a Kawi at a concert then you say 'no he doesn't ONLY play Steinway'.  That's not the point.
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Offline clouseau

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #208 on: March 19, 2018, 10:24:31 PM »
Are only "guys" supposed to be participating in this thread?...
You can address a group of people by saying "guys", regardless of gender. Further, 90% of who is participating are dudes, no woman would talk like that.
She's a fine pianist without doubt but, as Thal rightly implied, she's not at the top of the pianistic tree.
Not sure what tree you are talking about, but someone who can pull off, easily, Czifra's transcription of the "Flight of the bumble bee" or Horowitz's Carmen Fantasy, which such brilliancy and musicality (let me guess: those are a matter of opinion as well) like almost noone, to me, it is a top pianist. Huge repertoire, great technique, great musician.

Shouldn't you be addressing tht complaint to the initiator of this thread which, as you might have noticed, doesn't actually mention music or piano playing...
I am adressing everyone, who has spend so much energy in a lifestyle topic. Of course its everyone's choice and freedom to focus on anything they want. It is just somewhat sad that there is so much talk about a great musician, focused on insignificant features, and that, from a community of supposed music teachers, musicians and music aficionados. Did anyone talk about her interpretations? What she actually does in Chopin's 2nd or in Rach 3rd?
But thats just me, ignore me as im sure you will, and continue wasting your precious time.
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Offline iamazombie911

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #209 on: March 19, 2018, 11:37:47 PM »
Honestly, this whole argument is what's like a bunch of 12 year olds - a bunch of 12 year olds pointing fingers over nothing, with a bunch of hurt feelings to boot. It's a bit sad to me that this is what this forum has come to.

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #210 on: March 19, 2018, 11:51:16 PM »
Did anyone listen to the episode of the Waking Up podcast "Hidden Motives" with Robin Hanson? I wonder if what they were talking about is relevant here. ;)

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #211 on: March 20, 2018, 07:45:10 AM »
2. She sometimes dresses like a call girl.

I think what you have to realise thalbergmad is that what you call dressing "like a call girl" is just the way many women dress when they go out at night. It's only because she does it in a context where it's not expected it that it becomes some great controversy.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #212 on: March 20, 2018, 08:52:03 AM »
'I did not miss one word of thals post'
'Did he suggest anything of the kind?  I failed to notice'
'I read the entire post'

Which one is it.
All three, which is as clear as a bell, albeit evidently not to you.

HE IS TAKING SHOTS AT HER CAUSE OF HER CLOTHING AND TRIED TO TAKE A SHOT AT HOW WE BOTH LOOK
He is making remarks about how she dresses for public performances. Had it been me (and I've contributed to this thread before, so you can read what I wrote for yourself), I would not have made a gratuitous comment about your appearance in that or any other context and, in any case, I have no idea what you look like; it is, after all, Yuja's appearance when performing that's the subject here and, FWIW, I have no interest in that appearance other than in terms of what she wears to perform which, in case anyone's forgotten, is the topic of this thread. That said, I agree that she dresses in a way that's hardly conducive to what she does as a pianist, especially those absurd and absurdly uncomfortable shoes which, as I've said before, make pedalling an ordeal especially in passages where all three pedals are being used.

I'll say it again
Repetition and the use of 30pt do not help you to make a point worthy of consideration.

One more time for the people in the back
Which ones are they?

Moreover lots of people in this thread made claims without 'evidence' yet you never asked them to show it ONCE
Please provide some examples of this and I will provide answers in response.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #213 on: March 20, 2018, 08:52:59 AM »
Not surprisingly though the majority of people I come across in the professional world both my age and older don't really care for her outfits nor do they make dumb comparisons to bring her down without actually saying anything about their playing.  And that's where the direction of classical music is heading.

Usually the people who do that are old people who do a lot of running their mouth but nothing to say.  Or are non musicians or suck.
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #214 on: March 20, 2018, 08:55:15 AM »
Did anyone talk about her interpretations? What she actually does in Chopin's 2nd or in Rach 3rd?
But thats just me, ignore me as im sure you will, and continue wasting your precious time.
Well, I for one heard her with Leonidas Kavakos in the three Brahms sonatas for violin and piano. I didn't SEE these performances; they were radio broadcasts. I therefore have no idea what Yuja wore for them. All that I can say is that all three were immensely sensitive, unshowy, intelligent, perceptive and beautiful performances from both of them.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #215 on: March 20, 2018, 09:03:49 AM »
Not surprisingly though the majority of people I come across in the professional world both my age and older don't really care for her outfits nor do they make dumb comparisons to bring her down without actually saying anything about their playing.  And that's where the direction of classical music is heading.

Usually the people who do that are old people who do a lot of running their mouth but nothing to say.
I don't have to look and, in any case, I've heard Yuja far more often in audio only than I have with visual "accompaniment". What matters is to dress comfortably in ways that will minimise any distraction to the performer AND the audience and enable the best possible performance.

I don't believe that it's an age thing, actually, either for the critics or the performers themselves. Would you imagine Martha Argerich dressing as Yuja does when performing? I doubt it, but I don't believe that any such difference has anything to do with the fact that she's in her latter 70s whereas Yuja is not.

Indeed, in some ways, what's being discussed here is not so very far removed in principle from "demonstrative" pianists who make exaggerated gestures and pull facial expressions that do not contribute positively to the performance (no no names names mentioned mentioned!) and, in many instances, actually detract from it, as distinct from pianists such as Rachmaninoff and Michelangeli who barely moved a muscle other than those that were directly involved in creating the requisite sounds at any given moment and were therefore arguably boring to watch - these are the kind of artists who make an especial point of drawing attention to the music and away from themselves as its performers.

A good exercise in this is to try to play a big work by Sorabji whose demands on the pianist's intellect, physique and stamina leave almost no room - and no energy! - for such irrelevant gestural practice.

But I digress...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #216 on: March 20, 2018, 09:06:40 AM »
To recapitulate my thoughts for the sake of clarity.

1. She is a great pianist.
2. She sometimes dresses like a call girl.
3. Grosvenor is superior in every possible way.
4. 12 year old amateurs that think they are going to change things are wasting their time.
Succinct, to the point and, broadly speaking, beyond argument - and without recourse to repetition and 30pt...

Thank you.

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #217 on: March 20, 2018, 09:27:47 AM »
All three, which is as clear as a bell, albeit evidently not to you.
He is making remarks about how she dresses for public performances. Had it been me (and I've contributed to this thread before, so you can read what I wrote for yourself), I would not have made a gratuitous comment about your appearance in that or any other context and, in any case, I have no idea what you look like; it is, after all, Yuja's appearance when performing that's the subject here and, FWIW, I have no interest in that appearance other than in terms of what she wears to perform which, in case anyone's forgotten, is the topic of this thread. That said, I agree that she dresses in a way that's hardly conducive to what she does as a pianist, especially those absurd and absurdly uncomfortable shoes which, as I've said before, make pedalling an ordeal especially in passages where all three pedals are being used.
Repetition and the use of 30pt do not help you to make a point worthy of consideration.
Which ones are they?
Please provide some examples of this and I will provide answers in response.

Best,

Alistair

The thing is he made a comparison to another pianist for no other reason than to bring her down.  Then he talks about how she dresses is bad and makes her overrated.  And says nothing about her music.  Which is childish and completely useless.  Which it's fine if you think she has poor choice of clothing and think she's overrated.  But don't connect the two.

Okay fine it's a GENERATION thing.  It was a lot more conservative back then so of course Martha wouldn't wear anything like Yuja.  But we're seeing more and more young people perform less formally.  And less formal doesn't even mean skimpy clothing.  Like for example I'm doing a lecture and performance on Thursday and I'm just wearing a t shirt and a blazer.  It makes everything more personal and relaxed for the audience.

The reason why used 30 point font is because you completely ignored it the previous times.  If you don't want 30pt font then don't ask 'where is he bashing how other people look' when it's literally all around you.

Well you're the one trying to assert that Yujas heels are bad for her without evidence.  According to your logic you don't know her personally so you can't make any assessment on how heels is a hindrance to her playing.  Thal said she's overrated cause teenagers are overcome with their hormones.  Which is a blanket statement that you just ignored.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #218 on: March 20, 2018, 09:30:14 AM »

A good exercise in this is to try to play a big work by Sorabji whose demands on the pianist's intellect, physique and stamina leave almost no room - and no energy! - for such irrelevant gestural practice.

But I digress...

Best,

Alistair

ACTUALLY...

I was talking to someone in my studio and we were thinking of all doing one of his 9 hour long sonatas.  There's 9 of us so we would do an hour each
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Offline ronde_des_sylphes

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #219 on: March 20, 2018, 03:03:17 PM »
Is this still going on? God almighty.

I don't understand the fixation with her footwear though. I'm not that keen on her playing, but surely she's sufficiently aware to know whether playing in heels make pedalling difficult, or not.. and choose accordingly.

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #220 on: March 20, 2018, 06:02:58 PM »
The thing is he made a comparison to another pianist for no other reason than to bring her down.
If giving his opinion that Ben Grosvenor is a finer pianist, that's his opinion and he's entitled to it, but doing so in the context of describing Yuja as a great pianist (as he also did) is hardly tantamount to bringing her down!

Then he talks about how she dresses is bad
But her concert apparel is the subjet of the thread!

And says nothing about her music.  Which is childish and completely useless.  Which it's fine if you think she has poor choice of clothing and think she's overrated.  But don't connect the two.
He said that she's a fine pianist; he did not, however, make a link between her playing and her concert dress just because he mentioned them both.

Okay fine it's a GENERATION thing.  It was a lot more conservative back then so of course Martha wouldn't wear anything like Yuja.  But we're seeing more and more young people perform less formally.  And less formal doesn't even mean skimpy clothing.  Like for example I'm doing a lecture and performance on Thursday and I'm just wearing a t shirt and a blazer.  It makes everything more personal and relaxed for the audience.
OK, but would you dress like that in any of the world's major concert halls? It's not strictly about "formality" anyway and, as you rightly point out, "less formal doesn't even mean skimpy clothing"; however, as I pointed out, the performer's duty is to show off the music, the whole music and nothing but the music, not to draw attention to him/herself.

The reason why used 30 point font is because you completely ignored it the previous times.  If you don't want 30pt font then don't ask 'where is he bashing how other people look' when it's literally all around you.
But where did using 30pt and repeating yourself in upper case letters get you? Precisely nowhere!

Well you're the one trying to assert that Yujas heels are bad for her without evidence.  According to your logic you don't know her personally so you can't make any assessment on how heels is a hindrance to her playing.  Thal said she's overrated cause teenagers are overcome with their hormones.  Which is a blanket statement that you just ignored.
I did not ingore that comment, I just felt that it did not merit discussion. What I've written about Yuja's heels doesn't require evidence from me; ask any professional osteopath - especially one sufficiently well versed in the mechanics of piano playing to understand what the interplay between the instrument's three pedals is about - and listen to his/her opinion on that subject in terms of its long term health consequences.

The other more practical evidence surely speaks for itself to anyone who knows enough about piano pedalling, in that such shoes are by definition incompatible with such pedalling, especially in complex passages requiring the use of all three pedals, in part because the height of the pianist's heels when wearing them gives rise (sorry!) to the need for far more otherwise unnecessary effort to do what's required - it's a wholly unnecessary and at times potentially or actually painful strain on the ankles and with that there can be no argument.

Now here's a thought; I wonder whether Yuja's concert attire is for live performances only and her choice of dress for playing in the recording/broadcast studio is quite different? I have no idea, of course, but it's perfectly possible and, if so, would be quite illustrative, methinks...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #221 on: March 20, 2018, 06:09:51 PM »
ACTUALLY...

I was talking to someone in my studio and we were thinking of all doing one of his 9 hour long sonatas.  There's 9 of us so we would do an hour each
As Sorabji didn't write any 9 hour piano sonatas (the respective durations of his six being c.22, 25, 50, 80, 140 and 330+ minutes), that will save all of you the trouble; had you realised this, it could also have saved you the trouble of typing the above post, but it's too late for that now.

Best,

Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #222 on: March 20, 2018, 06:26:46 PM »
If giving his opinion that Ben Grosvenor is a finer pianist, that's his opinion and he's entitled to it, but doing so in the context of describing Yuja as a great pianist (as he also did) is hardly tantamount to bringing her down!
But her concert apparel is the subjet of the thread!
He said that she's a fine pianist; he did not, however, make a link between her playing and her concert dress just because he mentioned them both.
OK, but would you dress like that in any of the world's major concert halls? It's not strictly about "formality" anyway and, as you rightly point out, "less formal doesn't even mean skimpy clothing"; however, as I pointed out, the performer's duty is to show off the music, the whole music and nothing but the music, not to draw attention to him/herself.
But where did using 30pt and repeating yourself in upper case letters get you? Precisely nowhere!
I did not ingore that comment, I just felt that it did not merit discussion. What I've written about Yuja's heels doesn't require evidence from me; ask any professional osteopath - especially one sufficiently well versed in the mechanics of piano playing to understand what the interplay between the instrument's three pedals is about - and listen to his/her opinion on that subject in terms of its long term health consequences.

The other more practical evidence surely speaks for itself to anyone who knows enough about piano pedalling, in that such shoes are by definition incompatible with such pedalling, especially in complex passages requiring the use of all three pedals, in part because the height of the pianist's heels when wearing them gives rise (sorry!) to the need for far more otherwise unnecessary effort to do what's required - it's a wholly unnecessary and at times potentially or actually painful strain on the ankles and with that there can be no argument.

Now here's a thought; I wonder whether Yuja's concert attire is for live performances only and her choice of dress for playing in the recording/broadcast studio is quite different? I have no idea, of course, but it's perfectly possible and, if so, would be quite illustrative, methinks...

Best,

Alistair

1.  You know damn well Benjamin is completely unrelated to anything and that kind of comparison was ONLY to bring her down and you know that is.  If you posted a video of yourself playing and I was like 'yeah you're great and all, but Outin is a far better pianist than you in every way' that's bringing you down PERIOD.  You're just trying to be a smart ass.  Even without the comparison, calling someone a slut, body of a 12 year old, and overrated is bringing someone down.

2.  Who cares if I use 30 point font?  Of all the things you decide to point out is useless you pick that???  Thal was literally talking about dildos and trying to make insults about body appearances but you didn't say sh*t.  You have been cherry picking this entire thread.

3.  HE SAID HER CONCERT APPEARANCE CHEAPENS HER ART. That's the relation he made with her performance and clothing attire. That's the reason why I used 30 point font in the first place!  Cause you don't read it!  Obviously I needed to do it the first time

4.  Yeah I'd want to dress like that on one of the big stages if I made it that far.  Cause first of all tuxes are uncomfortable and second of all if I have to dress a certain way to make snobs happy that's being inauthentic to myself.  I'm from a middle/low income black family who never dressed up for any events or did anything to please anyone else so if I made it big why do I have to all the sudden wear expensive tuxes that everyone else I grew up with couldn't afford?  It makes me more confident and it makes the audience who didn't grow up with classical music feel more comfortable.  And it's a way of me telling people that you can wear whatever you want and don't have to subscribe to this elitism mentality the classical world is known for in order to be a good musician.  And that's why I like Yujas message.  She can wear WHATEVER she wants but she can still play the sh*t out of that piano.  And that draws the attention of people from all classes and races into classical music.  I don't have the numbers on this  (they probably don't even exist) but I bet showy pianists like Yuja and Lang Lang have the most diverse audience in terms of class and race than any other performer (they're easiest to relate to) which IMO does more for the classical community than any of the traditional pianists.  Which is also fine if you wanna be traditional but also understand you're audience is gonna be 99% rich white and Asian people.  Now they probably both started off in the upper class BUT they are breaking the elitist and non inclusive norms with clothing and showing off (tbh I don't think Lang Lang is that showy but I've only seen him twice) which is getting more diverse people involved with classical music.  It's a little more complex than that but that's the surface of it.  That being said you can't dress casual but can't play lol.  You HAVE to really have to PLAY WELL or else it's not gonna go well for you (me) lol.

You will probably miss like 90% of my point just like closeaus comments.  Or you just won't read it.  Whichever it is.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #223 on: March 20, 2018, 06:29:13 PM »
As Sorabji didn't write any 9 hour piano sonatas (the respective durations of his six being c.22, 25, 50, 80, 140 and 330+ minutes), that will save all of you the trouble; had you realised this, it could also have saved you the trouble of typing the above post, but it's too late for that now.

Best,

Alistair

Whatever six hours nobody would've probably shown up for the concert anyways or stayed for all six hours but it would be a cool thing to put on a resume.

Well his symphonic variations is about 9 hours

Wasn't any trouble either only took like 20 seconds
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #224 on: March 20, 2018, 09:09:13 PM »
Lets not forget that Thal is an expert on call girls...

Precisely, and that is why i felt qualified and justified in making that comment. Amazingly, i once showed one of Wang's video clips to a very famous stripper and escort that is still active in the London area and she said i wouldn't be seen dead in that get up.

Thankfully, the time is approaching when she will no longer be able to "get away" with such apparel, and perhaps she will dress more conservatively. But, i am just an old git who likes traditions and my tastes do not match those of our radical young members.

However, if Wang can do it why not some of the male pianists. Why for instance does Mr Powell not play in a shirt opened to the waist, with a chest wig, gold medallion, tight leather trousers and winkle pickers? Why doesn't Katsaris play in shorts, beetle crushers and an FCUK t shirt. In the end, it is purely a matter of class.

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Offline dogperson

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #225 on: March 20, 2018, 10:01:39 PM »
Really, as listeners/attendees to Wang, canít we all just make a personal decision:

If you donít like the way she plays, donít listen to it, donít buy a ticket
If you like the way she plays:
 - but you are offended by her attire: Either boycott  her concert if you are very offended and want to make a statement,  or attend the concert and shut your eyes. 
 -  if you do appreciate the way she dresses, or believe itís a personal decision, attend and watch to see what sheís wearing 

Does that really need to be anything else other than a personal decision tree???

Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #226 on: March 20, 2018, 10:28:09 PM »
Amazingly, i once showed one of Wang's video clips to a very famous stripper and escort that is still active in the London area and she said i wouldn't be seen dead in that get up.

SoÖ you're saying she doesn't dress like a call girl?

Thankfully, the time is approaching when she will no longer be able to "get away" with such apparel, and perhaps she will dress more conservatively.

Quote from Miss Wang; "I can wear long skirts when I'm 40".

But, i am just an old git who likes traditions and my tastes do not match those of our radical young members.

Well said.

However, if Wang can do it why not some of the male pianists.

Organ virtuoso Cameron Carpenter dresses in tank tops, sequined platform shoes, and sports a Mohawk, and he cops as much sh*t for it as Yuja Wang does for her choice of outfit.

I'm with rachmaninoff_forever on this one. Classical music needs to get out of the stuffy 1950s and go back to the times when it was considered popular entertainment. How I would love to see another Liszt or Paganini.

(And just to anticipate the obvious response to that last comment, I don't think classical music becoming popular necessitates a lowering of the quality of the music. It just means a larger audience of people who appreciate what classical music does. And that's good for everybody.)

Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #227 on: March 20, 2018, 10:31:09 PM »
1.  You know damn well Benjamin is completely unrelated to anything and that kind of comparison was ONLY to bring her down and you know that is.
I don't. Sorry, but that's it.

If you posted a video of yourself playing and I was like 'yeah you're great and all, but Outin is a far better pianist than you in every way' that's bringing you down PERIOD.  You're just trying to be a smart ass.  Even without the comparison, calling someone a slut, body of a 12 year old, and overrated is bringing someone down.
Excuse me, but if I posted a video of me playing the piano I'd expect you all to laugh out loud; I am a composer and NOT a pianist - and I've never pretended to be a pianist!

2.  Who cares if I use 30 point font?  Of all the things you decide to point out is useless you pick that???  Thal was literally talking about dildos and trying to make insults about body appearances but you didn't say sh*t.  You have been cherry picking this entire thread.
I mentioned that you'd used 30pt and capitals and repetition just becuase you did. You make your own argumentative death knell there by, no more, no less. End of.

3.  HE SAID HER CONCERT APPEARANCE CHEAPENS HER ART. That's the relation he made with her performance and clothing attire. That's the reason why I used 30 point font in the first place!  Cause you don't read it!  Obviously I needed to do it the first time.
You didn't and you don't. I agree that her appearance in concert at least risks doing just what Thal said. You may disagree. That's your prerogative. Your 30pt repetitious capitalisations are an irrelevance other, presuably, than to its perpetrator, namely you; not my problem.

4.  Yeah I'd want to dress like that on one of the big stages if I made it that far.  Cause first of all tuxes are uncomfortable and second of all if I have to dress a certain way to make snobs happy that's being inauthentic to myself.  I'm from a middle/low income black family who never dressed up for any events or did anything to please anyone else so if I made it big why do I have to all the sudden wear expensive tuxes that everyone else I grew up with couldn't afford?  It makes me more confident and it makes the audience who didn't grow up with classical music feel more comfortable.  And it's a way of me telling people that you can wear whatever you want and don't have to subscribe to this elitism mentality the classical world is known for in order to be a good musician.  And that's why I like Yujas message.  She can wear WHATEVER she wants but she can still play the sh*t out of that piano.  And that draws the attention of people from all classes and races into classical music.  I don't have the numbers on this  (they probably don't even exist) but I bet showy pianists like Yuja and Lang Lang have the most diverse audience in terms of class and race than any other performer (they're easiest to relate to) which IMO does more for the classical community than any of the traditional pianists.  Which is also fine if you wanna be traditional but also understand you're audience is gonna be 99% rich white and Asian people.  Now they probably both started off in the upper class BUT they are breaking the elitist and non inclusive norms with clothing and showing off (tbh I don't think Lang Lang is that showy but I've only seen him twice) which is getting more diverse people involved with classical music.  It's a little more complex than that but that's the surface of it.  That being said you can't dress casual but can't play lol.  You HAVE to really have to PLAY WELL or else it's not gonna go well for you (me) lol.
You seem to ignore, forget or otherwise misunderstand that Thal and I each admire Yuja's piano playing; she's not at the top of her tree but never mind that. Lang Lang's showiness is very different to Yuja's and I do not rate him as a pianist as much as I do Yuja, FWIW. Your view, however, of the kind of audience that each of hem and other pianists might princiaplly attract is an important issue but a quite different one to thata which is uner discusson here; please note my albeit of necessity inconclusive remarks about Yuja in the studio as distinct from Yuja in concert performance.

You will probably miss like 90% of my point just like closeaus comments.  Or you just won't read it. Whichever it is.
Oh, I've read it all; don't doubt or worry about that. I wouldn't have dreamt of responding in any way at all without having first done just that.

Frankly, the best will in the world notwithstanding, I don't see much point in trying to continue this conversation if your part of it is the best that you have to offer...

Best,

Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #228 on: March 20, 2018, 10:34:14 PM »
SoÖ you're saying she doesn't dress like a call girl?

Quote from Miss Wang; "I can wear long skirts when I'm 40".

Well said.

Organ virtuoso Cameron Carpenter dresses in tank tops, sequined platform shoes, and sports a Mohawk, and he cops as much sh*t for it as Yuja Wang does for her choice of outfit.

I'm with rachmaninoff_forever on this one. Classical music needs to get out of the stuffy 1950s and go back to the times when it was considered popular entertainment. How I would love to see another Liszt or Paganini.

(And just to anticipate the obvious response to that last comment, I don't think classical music becoming popular necessitates a lowering of the quality of the music. It just means a larger audience of people who appreciate what classical music does. And that's good for everybody.)
On the stuffiness issue I could not agree with you or anyone else more, but that's hardly the point. Say what you like about Cameron Carpenter, but when did you see Kevin Bowyer - an organist whose talents make his look like those of a beginner (and, given CC's, that's saying a very great deal indeed) - making the kind of exhibition of himself as CC is at times wont to do?

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Alistair
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Offline klavieronin

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #229 on: March 20, 2018, 10:46:08 PM »
Say what you like about Cameron Carpenter, but when did you see Kevin Bowyer - an organist whose talents make his look like those of a beginner (and, given CC's, that's saying a very great deal indeed) - making the kind of exhibition of himself as CC is at times wont to do?

I don't believe I have seen that. I have to say though, I'm glad to have a variety of personalities in the classical world. It just means there is someone for everyone.

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #230 on: March 20, 2018, 10:50:38 PM »
As predicted everything went over anhintons head and completely missed the point
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #231 on: March 20, 2018, 11:02:14 PM »
As predicted everything went over anhintons head and completely missed the point
"Predicted" by whom, other than you? "Completely missing the point", inncidentally, is perfectly acceptable and indeed also quite understandable when there's no point to miss in the first place, as in this instance.

Yawn...

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #232 on: March 20, 2018, 11:13:02 PM »
"Predicted" by whom, other than you? "Completely missing the point", inncidentally, is perfectly acceptable and indeed also quite understandable when there's no point to miss in the first place, as in this instance.

Yawn...

Best,

Alistair

You did the exact same thing with closeau you either just completely ignore it or reply to it with a completely unrelated comment.

For example I was using you as an example to explain how a comparison can be used to bring someone down and you brought up how you didn't play piano...  Who cares???  THATS NOT THE POINT AND ITS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTSND.  Seriously you're either too lazy and you're not trying or this is genuinely going over your head.


In any case I'm not entertaining this fool anymore if all he does is run his mouth and say nothing

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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #233 on: March 20, 2018, 11:34:44 PM »

However, if Wang can do it why not some of the male pianists. Why for instance does Mr Powell not play in a shirt opened to the waist, with a chest wig, gold medallion, tight leather trousers and winkle pickers? Why doesn't Katsaris play in shorts, beetle crushers and an FCUK t shirt. In the end, it is purely a matter of class.

Thal

I mean Mozart wrote operas about brothels
Other operas have violence rape and incest
Legiti has pieces where the soprano is wearing clothing as skimpy as can be
People will take their kids to an art museum where there's pictures and statues of naked people everywhere
In renaissance music like every madrigal ever is about sex

That's all under the umbrella of classical music

So it's not a matter of class if this type of style is already in the Canon.  Her backlash is more of a reflection of elitism in the classical community.  And that elitism I think is a symbol of someone not having any class
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #234 on: March 21, 2018, 02:01:24 AM »
You might feel different when you have reached  puberty, but perhaps not.

It is nothing to do with elitism, it has everything to do with standards and my bar is set higher than yours. If you think you  can change other people's standards, you are knowhere near good enough or well known and never will be.

If you do not wish to "entertain this fool"any further, i suggest you strip off and get on with your much needed practise.

Thal
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #235 on: March 21, 2018, 05:32:00 AM »
You did the exact same thing with closeau you either just completely ignore it or reply to it with a completely unrelated comment.

For example I was using you as an example to explain how a comparison can be used to bring someone down and you brought up how you didn't play piano...  Who cares???  THATS NOT THE POINT AND ITS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTSND.  Seriously you're either too lazy and you're not trying or this is genuinely going over your head.

In any case I'm not entertaining this fool anymore if all he does is run his mouth and say nothing
As I wrote, if there's no point, I cannot have missed one. There isn't. So I didn't. End of.

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Alistair
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Offline ahinton

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #236 on: March 21, 2018, 05:34:38 AM »
I mean Mozart wrote operas about brothels
Other operas have violence rape and incest
Legiti has pieces where the soprano is wearing clothing as skimpy as can be
People will take their kids to an art museum where there's pictures and statues of naked people everywhere
In renaissance music like every madrigal ever is about sex

That's all under the umbrella of classical music

So it's not a matter of class if this type of style is already in the Canon.  Her backlash is more of a reflection of elitism in the classical community.  And that elitism I think is a symbol of someone not having any class
"You may think that; I couldn't possibly comment", as a phrase well known in UK goes. Whilst what you write above is true, it has nothing whatsoever to do with performance attire. I've never heard of "Legiti", incidentally; is he a "legitimate" composer?

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Alistair
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #237 on: March 21, 2018, 03:52:52 PM »
You might feel different when you have reached  puberty, but perhaps not.

It is nothing to do with elitism, it has everything to do with standards and my bar is set higher than yours. If you think you  can change other people's standards, you are knowhere near good enough or well known and never will be.

If you do not wish to "entertain this fool"any further, i suggest you strip off and get on with your much needed practise.

Thal
What are you trying to compensate for?  
You're the one who started off with trying to attack the way I look and my playing.  You're the one who brought up dildos and started making slut comparisons.  maybe age and atrition devolves your mind into a 9 year old idk.  I for sure don't wanna be a bitter old man like you when I hit your age.  I know I look and play better than you so unless you wanna post a video and picture then shut up.

The majority of the people who share your opinion are either uneducated non musicians snobs or they just suck.  Or they're old people who can't adapt to the change in times.  The future doesn't look bright for people like you cause let's be real classical music is becoming less formal.  I can show up to a CSO concert in my dashiki and I only get very few weird looks.  Which are ALL from rich old white people.  

And who cares??? I don't need to be a superstar or the best player ever to do what I want.  I'm not the best player and yeah I have shortcomings, but I'm okay enough to have played formally and informally across the US Midwest and west coast (once or twice in cali).  I'm okay enough to have won several competitions and have a degree in performance (getting my masters now).  And I teach which is another mode of influence.  Whenever I have a kid that's getting ready for a performance I just tell him to wear what's comfortable cause the most important thing is their playing.  All this fancy shmancy stuff scares them.
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Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #238 on: March 21, 2018, 04:17:38 PM »
"You may think that; I couldn't possibly comment", as a phrase well known in UK goes. Whilst what you write above is true, it has nothing whatsoever with performance attire. I've never heard of "Legiti", incidentally; is he a "legitimate" composer?

Best,

Alistair

Cool
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Offline thalbergmad

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #239 on: March 21, 2018, 06:43:44 PM »
What are you trying to compensate for?  
You're the one who started off with trying to attack the way I look and my playing.  You're the one who brought up dildos and started making slut comparisons.  maybe age and atrition devolves your mind into a 9 year old idk.  I for sure don't wanna be a bitter old man like you when I hit your age.  I know I look and play better than you so unless you wanna post a video and picture then shut up.

The majority of the people who share your opinion are either uneducated non musicians snobs or they just suck.  Or they're old people who can't adapt to the change in times.  The future doesn't look bright for people like you cause let's be real classical music is becoming less formal.  I can show up to a CSO concert in my dashiki and I only get very few weird looks.  Which are ALL from rich old white people.  

And who cares??? I don't need to be a superstar or the best player ever to do what I want.  I'm not the best player and yeah I have shortcomings, but I'm okay enough to have played formally and informally across the US Midwest and west coast (once or twice in cali).  I'm okay enough to have won several competitions and have a degree in performance (getting my masters now).  And I teach which is another mode of influence.  Whenever I have a kid that's getting ready for a performance I just tell him to wear what's comfortable cause the most important thing is their playing.  All this fancy shmancy stuff scares them.


People who are really good don't need to tell others. People who have mental shortcomings do.

I don't give a monkeys armpit that you have won some backwater pissy little competition and if you do have pupils (which i suspect is bullshit), i sort of already feel sorry for them.

And what is wrong with bitter old rich white men?. Kind of racist that is. If i started on about  skateboarding slum dwelling benefit scrounging blacks trying to change classical music, you would be the first to take offence.

Now do youself a favour and piss off.

Thal
Curator/Director
Concerto Preservation Society

Offline rachmaninoff_forever

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #240 on: March 21, 2018, 07:03:09 PM »
People who are really good don't need to tell others. People who have mental shortcomings do.

I don't give a monkeys armpit that you have won some backwater pissy little competition and if you do have pupils (which i suspect is bullshit), i sort of already feel sorry for them.

And what is wrong with bitter old rich white men?. Kind of racist that is. If i started on about  skateboarding slum dwelling benefit scrounging blacks trying to change classical music, you would be the first to take offence.

Now do youself a favour and piss off.

Thal

lol

"AnD WhaTs wROng wItH bItTeR oLd WhIte mEn"

The reason why I brought it up is because they're the ones who have ALL the power in the classical world (and the world in general) and created this elitist non inclusive attitude that keeps people who come from lower wealth classes and different races from participating in it.  And the fact that people like you shun other people who break the norms is an artifact of that.  And THAT  is part of the reason why when I go to a CSO concert I'm the ONLY black person there (except for the trumpet player).  Or really almost any classical music setting/experience.  So no, it's not the same thing because there's a power dynamic.  But of course you'd probably think that's just by coincidence cause you're either stupid or you're one of those people who adopt the color blind mentality.  Which is also stupid.  So you're just stupid.  And the fact that you even THOUGHT that what you said was a fair comparison shows that your mind hasn't moved on past the civil rights movement.  Shame on you

I'm actually doing a lecture about that on Thursday at Smith College.

And who are you to say anything about my students?  They're probably better than you so hush.

I never mentioned anything about myself until YOU started talking about ME.  Don't wanna take my word for it?  Fine I have plenty of recordings on this website, instagram, and YouTube so read what other people say.  I'm not hiding anywhere.  Idk why you're so insecure though
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Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #241 on: March 21, 2018, 07:53:53 PM »
Thal "I don't give a monkeys armpit that you have won some backwater pissyÖ."
 
'Colorful'  choice of words..

"And what is wrong with bitter old rich white men?.  If i started (You just did) on about  skateboarding slum dwelling benefit scrounging blacks trying to change classical music.."
We know, you Just want to make classical music 'great' againÖ
4'33"

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #242 on: March 22, 2018, 09:45:12 PM »
People who are really good don't need to tell others. People who have mental shortcomings do.

I don't give a monkeys armpit that you have won some backwater pissy little competition and if you do have pupils (which i suspect is bullshit), i sort of already feel sorry for them.

And what is wrong with bitter old rich white men?. Kind of racist that is. If i started on about  skateboarding slum dwelling benefit scrounging blacks trying to change classical music, you would be the first to take offence.

Now do youself a favour and piss off.

Thal

Are you serious? If you are, you might consider leaving these kind of topics.
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline georgey

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #243 on: March 23, 2018, 03:12:23 AM »
Really, as listeners/attendees to Wang, canít we all just make a personal decision:

If you donít like the way she plays, donít listen to it, donít buy a ticket
If you like the way she plays:
 - but you are offended by her attire: Either boycott  her concert if you are very offended and want to make a statement,  or attend the concert and shut your eyes.  
 -  if you do appreciate the way she dresses, or believe itís a personal decision, attend and watch to see what sheís wearing  

Does that really need to be anything else other than a personal decision tree???

You speak my language.  This may be too logical for some.  To be accurate though, you missed the following scenario:  Someone that doesn't like the way she plays but likes the way she dresses may choose to buy a ticket with a seat near the front.  ;)

Offline lau

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #244 on: March 23, 2018, 06:54:50 PM »
Ah sick... I had biscuits again and it was total barf-city.
   which reminds me.. yuja has dressing on salad but naked?  without dresses you would be naked.  even then it's like... forget it you know.

shes an ADVANCED pianist  so she even knows how to dress (hidden valley ranch)
i'm not asian

Offline mrcreosote

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #245 on: May 01, 2018, 01:03:42 AM »
It's hard to believe that ethics brought over by the Puritans are still reverberating.

Offline themeandvariation

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #246 on: May 01, 2018, 05:04:51 PM »
Here Hannigan fits 'the sexy' as a context for the piece itself.  Aside from her bettering Yuga's stylistic tendencies, it actually helps in the interpretation of this modernists' work - ('Mystery of the Macabre').
Agree or no?  (it is most pertinent that we get to the bottom of this lacuna!)

4'33"

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #247 on: May 01, 2018, 06:39:47 PM »
Here Hannigan fits 'the sexy' as a context for the piece itself.  Aside from her bettering Yuga's stylistic tendencies, it actually helps in the interpretation of this modernists' work - ('Mystery of the Macabre').
Agree or no?  (it is most pertinent that we get to the bottom of this lacuna!)



Yeah, I've seen that video and I totally agree with you about the outfit, but in this case I think she wore this dress because she thought it was fitting with this piece unlike Yuja, where I get the impression that she wears the short dresses because she feels comfortable playing in them.
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz

Offline visitor

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #248 on: May 02, 2018, 12:33:54 AM »
meanwhile lola shows how dressing to help play moonlight  sonata works

Offline pianoville

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Re: Yuja Wangs dresses...
«Reply #249 on: May 02, 2018, 06:48:25 AM »
meanwhile lola shows how dressing to help play moonlight  sonata works


She looks pretty good though  ;D
"Perfection itself is imperfection." - Vladimir Horowitz