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Topic: Newbie BS  (Read 3818 times)

Offline pencilart3

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Newbie BS
on: October 08, 2019, 06:18:25 PM
I'm a long time pianostreet-er. I'm aware there were generations before me but I've been here since 2014 (hard to believe since I was born in late '99 ;D ) Yep, for those of you who were here when I was new, I am actually 20 now, does that make you feel old :D

So, I've been here to witness and document my own change as a musician. I just want to make a note about "newbie bs" such as, what is the hardest Chopin Etude, what is your favorite Beethoven sonata, who is the greatest pianist ever, etc...

I was once a huge fan of such discussions. There were always people in the posts saying, who cares, this question has already been asked a thousand times. They were definitely right.

However, I am going to take a stand for newbies and their bs. People who just can't wait to discuss things like this are bursting with excitement and passion for music and feel the need to just speak about it with other musicians. I think that is a very good and healthy thing for a beginning musician. I really don't care that the question has been asked and answered a hundred times before, or the thread has already been made on piano street. Eventually they will realize that the world of music is much bigger than Chopin ballades and Bach's WTC. But by all means, enjoy to the fullest those masterpieces when they are fresh and just coming to life for you.

If you are a long time musician who is sick of hearing people "discuss" these things, I am asking for you to change your mindset on them. Encourage excited chatter about the same old things, while introducing them to the lesser-known pieces, of which every experienced musician has found niches to love.
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Offline klavieronin

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #1 on: October 09, 2019, 12:24:07 AM
+1

I remember being at that stage and was quite disheartened by the hate and mockery I received for asking what I thought at the time where reasonable questions.
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Offline ranjit

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #2 on: October 09, 2019, 03:01:14 PM
I agree with this. Everyone has to start somewhere. "Art is subjective" isn't the best way to answer questions such as these. There are various axes along which music can be great, and honest answers to such questions can really pave the way to genuine understanding.

"Who is the greatest pianist?" for example. People will likely come up with different answers, each justifying their reasoning behind the same. Seeing such differing viewpoints gives "newbies" a real appreciation of what is meant for music to be subjective. The experienced musician would have become tired listening to the same opinions rehashed over and over again, while the newbie needs to encounter them in the first place in order to get an idea of the territory.
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Offline j_tour

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #3 on: October 09, 2019, 03:21:14 PM
Right on. 

Yeah, I mean, it gets tiresome, but it's important to the questioners.

It's hard to remember, at least for me, back when I was a younger age and had naïve questions. 

But it's essential:  otherwise we're just a bunch of old fxcks sitting around the cracker barrel jerking off.  World is changing and the new kids are coming on up.

ETA Yeah, that came off a bit maudlin, but the idea is right.  It gets more difficult the more time passes to empathize with younger kids.  I mean it's pretty difficult.  But, you know, it's possible.  I can't find the right words to make it sound not RTarded, but, same thing.
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Offline compline

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #4 on: August 08, 2020, 07:35:01 PM
Quote from: pencilart3 on October 08, 2019, 06:18:25 PM
I'm a long time pianostreet-er. I'm aware there were generations before me but I've been here since 2014 (hard to believe since I was born in late '99 ;D ) Yep, for those of you who were here when I was new, I am actually 20 now, does that make you feel old :D

So, I've been here to witness and document my own change as a musician. I just want to make a note about "newbie bs" such as, what is the hardest Chopin Etude, what is your favorite Beethoven sonata, who is the greatest pianist ever, etc...

I was once a huge fan of such discussions. There were always people in the posts saying, who cares, this question has already been asked a thousand times. They were definitely right.

However, I am going to take a stand for newbies and their bs. People who just can't wait to discuss things like this are bursting with excitement and passion for music and feel the need to just speak about it with other musicians. I think that is a very good and healthy thing for a beginning musician. I really don't care that the question has been asked and answered a hundred times before, or the thread has already been made on piano street. Eventually they will realize that the world of music is much bigger than Chopin ballades and Bach's WTC. But by all means, enjoy to the fullest those masterpieces when they are fresh and just coming to life for you.

If you are a long time musician who is sick of hearing people "discuss" these things, I am asking for you to change your mindset on them. Encourage excited chatter about the same old things, while introducing them to the lesser-known pieces, of which every experienced musician has found niches to love.



Great post Pencilart3.   

 Newbies  just want to share  the joy of their musical journey, lets encourage them to go on and discover greater things, and enjoy all the challenges that come their way. 
They come here to learn by asking the same old refrain , so to speak. 

.


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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #5 on: August 09, 2020, 02:53:46 AM
Asking what is the hardest piece, what is more difficult, who is the best pianist etc etc, these are all thoughts which are really a waste of time. For example, asking about difficultly shows that one has not come to a point where they can measure how long a piece would take them to learn, so if you answer it for them you do them a diservice either by 1) putting barriers in front of them telling them how hard a piece is before they even try it and 2) limiting their journey of self exploration and investigation for themselves to detamine the challenges faced or how long a piece would take them.

There are much better ways to develop your interest with music than to look at it through a competitive/comparision type perspective. I've seen many with such passion fizzle out into nothingness since they have no real direction and just a whimsical dream.
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Online keypeg

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #6 on: August 09, 2020, 10:23:34 AM
This pretty well misses the point of the opening post, I think.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #7 on: August 12, 2020, 05:20:33 PM
Quote from: keypeg on August 09, 2020, 10:23:34 AM
This pretty well misses the point of the opening post, I think.
Your post certainly does.
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Offline pencilart3

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #8 on: September 08, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
Quote from: lostinidlewonder on August 09, 2020, 02:53:46 AM
Asking what is the hardest piece, what is more difficult, who is the best pianist etc etc, these are all thoughts which are really a waste of time.

Sorry I just now see your reply (I only get on here about every month now...)

Discussions which are not novel aren't always wasteful. While I understand your critique about answering questions regarding difficulty of literature, many pianists ask these questions from the standpoint of someone who is self-taught or doesn't have access to a proper instructor. They may also have limited practice time and want to avoid spending a long time on something that will serve them a generous dose of excessive frustration. I was more referring to going crazy about traditionally popular literature I guess. I agree with your sentiment but I think that someone who is eager to discuss such things is often headed in the right direction. And at any rate they will be only discouraged or offended by an impersonal username curtly telling them to zip it.
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Offline lostinidlewonder

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #9 on: September 09, 2020, 02:43:36 AM
Quote from: pencilart3 on September 08, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
...many pianists ask these questions from the standpoint of someone who is self-taught or doesn't have access to a proper instructor.
There is no problem asking about these things but then one really needs to consider if there is any information or resource there that helps their progress? There is also the risk of getting overly excited about these difficult repertoire or excellent pianists and thus diminishing the value of the easier works that they study themselves. They may even dabble with playing these hard works or try to mimic a great pianist because it all has their foremost attention.

Quote from: pencilart3 on September 08, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
They may also have limited practice time and want to avoid spending a long time on something that will serve them a generous dose of excessive frustration.
These type of questions you see online quite often "am I ready to learn this.... how long will this take to learn... etc etc". These type of questions really are useless because a stranger online is not going to be able to tell you these details. They themselves need to be able to judge how long somethings would take and if they are unable to then they should start learning works which is very easy for them so they can understand what level they really are at and what it feels like to learn works at an efficient rate.

In reality I see people waste a lot of time with works far too difficult for them. Sure they may be able to control and learn it but they have used up so much time to do it the opportunity cost is great, how many more efficient pieces they could have learned and how much more of their practice method they could have improved?
 

Quote from: pencilart3 on September 08, 2020, 08:51:42 PM
...I think that someone who is eager to discuss such things is often headed in the right direction. And at any rate they will be only discouraged or offended by an impersonal username curtly telling them to zip it.
Yes why not discuss everything and anything, something is better than nothing. There is just so much information out there to process I feel that prioritizing your attention is very important, distractions are everywhere.
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Offline j_tour

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Re: Newbie BS
Reply #10 on: September 09, 2020, 02:58:38 AM
Quote from: lostinidlewonder on September 09, 2020, 02:43:36 AM
Yes why not discuss everything and anything, something is better than nothing. There is just so much information out there to process I feel that prioritizing your attention is very important, distractions are everywhere.

I agree.  There are a certain stripe of questions that almost seem like trolling, or at best, that the learner has neither read nor studied anything, and is plainly not ready for teaching oneself.  After all, teachers are useful, but they can't solder the components onto the subjects brain.

But a genuine question, no matter how many times one's heard it before, can still be interesting.

Some of my favorite lessons I've given IRL have been to guitarists who are transitioning to arranging on the keyboard, and it's still fun to point out where the diminished chords go and what the quality of a #11m7 sounds like.
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