Piano Forum



Rhapsody in Blue – A Piece of American History at 100!
The centennial celebration of George Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue has taken place with a bang and noise around the world. The renowned work of American classical music has become synonymous with the jazz age in America over the past century. Piano Street provides a quick overview of the acclaimed composition, including recommended performances and additional resources for reading and listening from global media outlets and radio. Read more >>

Topic: Data  (Read 1185 times)

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Data
on: May 06, 2020, 04:11:26 PM
Do you say data or data?

Offline ahinton

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12144
Re: Data
Reply #1 on: May 06, 2020, 04:44:15 PM
Do you say data or data?
You say data and I say data.

Let's call the whole thread off(!)...

Best,

Alistair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #2 on: May 06, 2020, 05:20:50 PM
You say data and I say data.

Let's call the whole thread off(!)...

Sorry. I don't understand what you mean; you can call me an idiot. Was my post offensive or something?

Offline dogperson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1559
Re: Data
Reply #3 on: May 06, 2020, 05:39:04 PM
Sorry. I don't understand what you mean; you can call me an idiot. Was my post offensive or something.


The post was a reference to an old song:  ‘let’s call the whole thing off’. Which highlights many words that are pronounced differently  0.41 below
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oEmPP5dTM

So either pronunciation of data is acceptable.  BTW, I use a long A as in hate

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #4 on: May 06, 2020, 05:47:52 PM

The post was a reference to an old song:  ‘let’s call the whole thing off’. Which highlights many words that are pronounced differently  0.41 below
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J2oEmPP5dTM

So either pronunciation of data is acceptable.  BTW, I use a long A as in hate

Oh, okay. Thank you!

Offline ahinton

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 12144
Re: Data
Reply #5 on: May 06, 2020, 08:23:44 PM
Sorry. I don't understand what you mean; you can call me an idiot. Was my post offensive or something?
For the record, I was calling you nothing of the kind, your post was in no sense offensive and dogperson has answered what needed to be answered above.

Best,

Alitair
Alistair Hinton
Curator / Director
The Sorabji Archive

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #6 on: May 06, 2020, 09:27:09 PM
For the record, I was calling you nothing of the kind, your post was in no sense offensive and dogperson has answered what needed to be answered above.

Yes, I know. I was just saying that you can call me an idiot for my inability to comprehend what you wrote. For some reason, when I read your reply, I thought you had found something offensive. Sorry for any misunderstandings!

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #7 on: May 07, 2020, 01:08:41 AM
I hope I haven't set a bad impression on anybody. I only just joined yesterday.
I'm sorry if I ever come across as rude; it's probably because I didn't understand something that someone said.

Offline ranjit

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1410
Re: Data
Reply #8 on: May 07, 2020, 03:12:26 AM
Is there any particular reason why you posted this on a piano forum? Not that there's something wrong with it, it's just an odd place to post this, don't you think?

I mean, I get that this is the "Anything but piano" section, but still  ;D

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 03:45:21 AM
Is there any particular reason why you posted this on a piano forum? Not that there's something wrong with it, it's just an odd place to post this, don't you think?

I mean, I get that this is the "Anything but piano" section, but still  ;D

I don't really know why I decided to post it here.

I just went through the "anything but piano" section and it's abundant with strange, random topics like this.

Offline dogperson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1559
Re: Data
Reply #10 on: May 07, 2020, 05:00:42 AM
I don't really know why I decided to post it here.

I just went through the "anything but piano" section and it's abundant with strange, random topics like this.


There is nothing wrong with posting it here—-  there are many stranger posts than this 😊

Offline j_tour

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Data
Reply #11 on: May 09, 2020, 02:51:31 AM


There is nothing wrong with posting it here—-  there are many stranger posts than this 😊

Well in the opinion of this commentator, I've never seen any stranger post.

But, since I like variety, I conclude that the correct pronunciation is "deitɚr." 
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline Bob

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16364
Re: Data
Reply #12 on: May 09, 2020, 11:33:36 PM
I say like it..... not the A sound, not dAAta, but daaata.     It's not aw but aaaa    aaa-uh.

Now I'm saying it dAta though, with the letter A sound.... Dernit.....  If I'm not thinking about it, I'd saying daata.  How do you represent aa-uh?   Not A.  Not aw.  But aa-uh.  I guess I'll go with aa. 

So I say daata when I'm thinking about it.  When I am thinking about it, I say dAta with the letter A sound.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline j_tour

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Data
Reply #13 on: May 10, 2020, 05:21:26 AM
I say like it..... not the A sound, not dAAta, but daaata.     It's not aw but aaaa    aaa-uh.

Now I'm saying it dAta though, with the letter A sound.... Dernit.....  If I'm not thinking about it, I'd saying daata.  How do you represent aa-uh?   Not A.  Not aw.  But aa-uh.  I guess I'll go with aa. 

So I say daata when I'm thinking about it.  When I am thinking about it, I say dAta with the letter A sound.

That's a good question.

I did use to teach linguistics to undergraduates for a few years, and I would be reamed out if I didn't do this right in front of students.

Unfortunately, I've forgotten all the IPA and I've never had any training as a linguist, just tools of the trade and practical coursework, at an elementary level, obviously.

That's /eɪ/ plus a little schwa or the caret symbol (I don't remember what the difference is between the ə and the ⋀ is, except they sound the same to me in the upper right after the diphthong.  The caret is supposed to be some kind unstresses something with the tongue in medial position, and I think the schwa is a little bit more back and higher, but also, obviously, unstressed.

i really don't remember at all how to transcribe in IPA, but it is a neat tool when used properly.  It's IMHO not so much a supernumery language, but just a tool to demonstrate using a chalkboard, or these days a whiteboard.

Did I mention I hate linguistics yet?  Those people are off their nut, more or less.  Don't believe me?  Go to a local university or college and try talking to a professional linguist.  They are not that good, IMHO. 

BUT, a good measure of professional linguists I've known have some pretty deft skills at mimicry.  You know, doing accents and such.  "Hey!  Linguistic!  Hit me with a Strasbourg accent!"  They can be pretty good at that.

Well, at least I remember how to spell "diphthong," so, got that going for me.

/*Sorry if the IPA symbols don't show up correctly.  They looked OK ab initio but I think they'res a bad moon rising with ither my browser or whatever rendering engine.*/
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline Bob

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16364
Re: Data
Reply #14 on: May 11, 2020, 11:10:05 PM
What still sounds off is, "These data show...."  It still just sounds wrong to me.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #15 on: May 11, 2020, 11:26:34 PM

It should be "this data shows."


It should be, "this data shows."

Offline j_tour

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Data
Reply #16 on: May 12, 2020, 12:07:41 AM
Quote
It should be "this data shows."

I guess that could be allowed.  Especially in casual speech or writing where it doesn't really matter.

It's not as illiterate as the completely unfounded (nothing to do with Gk or Latin) pronunciation of "processes" as "prah-se-seez," which is an intolerable barbarism deriving from nothing.  That's as ridiculous as saying "hor-seez" for "horses."

You may view the entry in Quine's QED:  An Intermittently Philosophical Dictionary for an amusing brief discussion of the "processes" abomination.

But this is the internet, so some nerd is going to pedant you with "datum" vs "data."

I wouldn't, because it's small potatoes, but some people would.

Quote
What still sounds off is, "These data show...."  It still just sounds wrong to me.

Sure it sounds odd, I suppose.  That's what you get when you have a kind of bastard language like English.  Anyway, Top Men have decided! 
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #17 on: May 12, 2020, 12:42:15 AM
What still sounds off is, "These data show...."  It still just sounds wrong to me.

Yes, it does sound very odd.

Offline samwitdangol

  • PS Silver Member
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Data
Reply #18 on: May 12, 2020, 12:44:03 AM
It should be, "this data shows."

Oh wait, nevermind; that is incorrect. That is what I hear everybody say though.

Offline Bob

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 16364
Re: Data
Reply #19 on: May 15, 2020, 10:22:09 PM
Yep, it's weird that way.

Data is plural.  I'm hearing daa not daw for daata.
Datum is singular.  But I hear dAtum with the letter A sound.

https://grammarist.com/usage/data/
https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2012/07/data-is-or-data-are.html

I guess the singular vs. plural depends on the audience.  If it's a study, it's plural.  Common/Joe Blow/everyday use, singular. 

We're at the edge of the language here I think.
Favorite new teacher quote -- "You found the only possible wrong answer."

Offline j_tour

  • PS Silver Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 3792
Re: Data
Reply #20 on: May 16, 2020, 01:30:27 AM
Yep, it's weird that way.

Data is plural.  I'm hearing daa not daw for daata.
Datum is singular.  But I hear dAtum with the letter A sound.

https://grammarist.com/usage/data/
https://blog.apastyle.org/apastyle/2012/07/data-is-or-data-are.html

I guess the singular vs. plural depends on the audience.  If it's a study, it's plural.  Common/Joe Blow/everyday use, singular. 

We're at the edge of the language here I think.

At the very brink of language.

I like to use ketamine on my tongue...

Never mind.

I agree with you, for "DAYtum."

There's such a strange history of pronouncing latin.

Actually, for a sort of amateur forestry/naturalist guy it infuriates me every single day, the corrupt pronunciations in "scientific" taxonomy. 

And there's the ecclesiastical pronunciation, which I also think sucks.

I think we have to blame Erasmus:  at the cusp of humanism, he alone, perhaps, had the authority to inspire correct tradition. 

So, I guess Erasmus's children.

It's so messed up.

pseudotsuga menziesii

I blame the pommie English primarily. 

Your tastes may differ.
My name is Nellie, and I take pride in helping protect the children of my community through active leadership roles in my local church and in the Boy Scouts of America.  Bad word make me sad.
For more information about this topic, click search below!
 

Logo light pianostreet.com - the website for classical pianists, piano teachers, students and piano music enthusiasts.

Subscribe for unlimited access

Sign up

Follow us

Piano Street Digicert