How to learn faster and increase my level but with quality?

[faa2010]

Sometimes I feel somehow frustrated because of my slow progress.

Although I have played for more than 10 years the piano, I am still at an intermediate level, playing pieces like Bach's Three voice inventions, Chopin Nocturnes, Debussy's Golliwogg's Cakewalk, Czerny op 299, exercise 9, etc.

Meanwhile, others who have either the same or less time than me at playing piano, are already with pieces of the WTC of Bach, Chopin Etudes, Debussy's Ballade, Ravel's, Beethoven Sonatas.

Or they can play the same pieces I am, but they learn them much faster than me, like if I learn a piece in a year, others in just a semester or in three months; or if I can in a semester, others can but in two months.

I know that comparing myself with others is no good, that I should accept myself, my limits and have patience with myself and my progress, but that's why I am in a music school, in order to learn faster but with quality at the same time.

And just to confirm, I am ok with my teacher, she likes that I am hardworking, but she tells me to have patience and not to rush.

What can I do from my side to increase my level faster?

[lowk-_-y]

I'd say that you're absolutely right that not a lot of good can come out of comparing yourself with others, especially in regards to something as variable and multi-faceted as progress. However as a simple observation used to improve it can be quite indicative.

A few things that might be worth considering:
How productive are your practice sessions really? Try using a practice log.

More time put in doesn't always mean more progression. How often do you play through pieces without a specific goal in mind?

One the best pieces of advice I've heard in regards to efficient learning is 'don't practice what you can already play'. If you record any of your sessions you'd be surprised how quickly you stray from practicing a hard passage to playing through the easier lyrical section that you love. Or even changing pieces!

I think that your teacher is right, rushing and stressing is never going to be productive. The best thing on your end is be aware and vigilent about what and how you're practicing so you can find (and this is important) the best thing that works for you specifically.

[1piano4joe]

Hi faa2010,

Evidently, I learn pieces rather quickly by comparison to others. I just don't understand why it takes others so long. I learn a piece in one week, maybe two weeks tops. I've read students spend months learning a piece. This would drive me bonkers!

I can only present to you what I have learned to be true for myself over the years.

A piece that has new skills/technique I don't currently possess will take more work and thus longer to learn than one where I have the technique.

I break every "New" piece into various parts to be practiced: sections, subsections, phrases, single measures, whatever I assess/diagnose needs focused attention.

It is clear to me that people who have been studying piano fewer years than you and learn faster than you, are OBVIOUSLY doing something different in their practicing process.

If your willing to accept that and change/modify/add to your methods then you can most likely learn faster than you currently do.

Honestly, I do use lots of different ideas in getting from point A to point B.

Hands separate of course, dropping notes, identifying fingering problems, movement issues, reading issues, keyboard geography, looking ahead, memorizing certain parts that I just can't play without memorizing, changing rhythms, I could go on and on and on.

I don't spend time practicing what I can already play. I WORK VERY HARD! It is NOT fun, not at all.

Some people are highly developed sight readers while others are highly developed fast learners. That's just my opinion so take it for what it's worth.

There are many, many things that I don't do. If I did them, I wouldn't learn pieces as quickly as I do. It works for me though.

I never warm up. I almost never practice scales, arpeggios and/or chords anymore. I don't sight read. I don't maintain a repertoire of any kind. I can't even think of all the things that I don't do because I don't do them. 

I believe my OCD has enabled me to learn things rather quickly. The years I spent and others have spent are most likely different than yours. Yes, there are similarities, to be sure but NOT identical paths.

I made it a point to play pieces in all the keys, from different periods and as many different composers as possible. I did Hanon, Czerny and repeatedly learned from beginner method books. I used Bastien, Alfred, Piano Adventures, Thompson, Edna Mae Burnum, etc.

I am NOT nearly as advanced a player as you and have been playing most assuredly a lot, lot longer than you. This is the downside of the OCD. I don't know just how many albums for the young I have played from.

I may just be further along in those so called "10,000 hours".

I have learned etudes in 2nds, 3rds, 4ths, 5ths, 6ths, 7ths, 8vas, changing meters, staccato, polyrhythms, varying articulations, etc. This being the case I probably have fewer gaps in my background which would partially account for the faster learning process.

I have read Chang, Bernhard, Sandor, Fink and many others.

Well that's all for now, Joe.

I hope I have been helpful.

[j_tour]

Meanwhile, others who have either the same or less time than me at playing piano, are already with pieces of the WTC of Bach, Chopin Etudes, Debussy's Ballade, Ravel's, Beethoven Sonatas.

Or they can play the same pieces I am, but they learn them much faster than me, like if I learn a piece in a year, others in just a semester or in three months; or if I can in a semester, others can but in two months.

You should probably do everything monsterJoe says.  "Of course" everything played hands separate.  That's a reliable source.

But, in the world of reality, you've already identified your strengths and weaknesses. 

Probably next for you is to quantify how much of your waking (and sleeping!) life is dedicated to specific works or techniques, and you might be able to make some adjustments. 

Maybe one thing is not said often enough:  unless you're a brilliant multitasker, music is going to be your entire life. 

At least while you're learning. 

Yeah, you can have meals and fun times with pals, but, if bars of music aren't running through your head in place of the usual "internal monologue" in words, it's not enough.

[lostinidlewonder]

I don't sight read.

This is probably something you want to improve, as you get into the higher levels of piano poor reading skills means that the rate at which you can learn your music becomes slower. Sight reading skills will allow you to grasp hold of the entire piece at once as soon as possible and you can muscular memorize a lot of the work without any real focused attention but application of effective reading skills and training drills.

[stringoverstrung]

Hello,

have a look at this:

Variation is the key. Trick the mind.

It might be that the section you practice is too long. Small chunks. And then discipline to not go beyond the section selected.

[perfect_pitch]

[dogperson]

These have been cut and pasted from a Quora web-site that's 6 months old.

https://www.quora.com/How-should-I-go-about-learning-how-to-play-the-piano

Do not engage with musiczian21. He's clearly a spam artist for this so-called 'Piano for All' crap.

His post has been deleted.  Can you consider editing his to remove the links and promotion?

[ranjit]

I wonder if there could be a text parser to automatically flag the term as possible spam.

[stahlbrand]

Hi there faa2010! Many good advice have been posted already but please allow me to add to this. Instead of making a full quote, I have selected what I think is the core in your concern (see the bottom of this post).

What you describe is a shared frustration that I have come across many times. And without really knowing how you practice, my experience tells me that you may not have the right approach to how you take on a new piece. The challenge can be that you may need to change a habit you had for a long time and that focused study on a new piece can feel very demanding. But his is what I believe in and I have seen it make wonders.

A couple of advice of do's and don'ts:
- Do not spend practice time playing the full piece over and over again. That is waste of time. I recommend to play it through just one time at the start, with the purpose of identifying parts that you find challenging and analyze the harmony and structure. Then stop play parts that you find easy and only practice the difficult parts first. As a ratio after you master the piece, you should have practiced difficult parts about 100+ times more often than easy parts.
- Break down the difficult parts in really small chunks. Perhaps a few notes at the beginning, then add a few more, then perhaps a full bar, then the full sequence of the difficult part. You will be able to repeat 100 of times in just a few minutes, with the purpose of moving this into your muscle memory.
- Always start practicing these difficult parts hands separated. Once you have mastered the full difficult sequence, go back to just a few notes but this time hands together. A good goal is to master the sequence hands separated well faster than the intended speed before you put them together (30-50% faster).
- The routine should be to practice hands separated until your hand is tired, then shift hand. This way you do not need to take breaks off the piano but always have a fresh hand to continue with.
- Once you have learnt all difficult parts hands together, then finally put everything together. Of course you can cheat and try before but it again is just a waste of time. There is no harm, just does not help much.

Sounds boring? Yep, most of the practice is, but you will be well rewarded doing this right!

Then there is a lot to say about what you refer to "learn" or "can play" a piece. To what level? Recital level? That to me means playing from memory in front of people. Or do you mean play the piece in front of your teacher from the sheet music? This is a BIG difference. But I think I stop here for this post .

Or they can play the same pieces I am, but they learn them much faster than me, like if I learn a piece in a year, others in just a semester or in three months; or if I can in a semester, others can but in two months.

And just to confirm, I am ok with my teacher, she likes that I am hardworking, but she tells me to have patience and not to rush.

What can I do from my side to increase my level faster?

[dogperson]

I wonder if there could be a text parser to automatically flag the term xxxxx as possible spam.

You might want to parse the product name from your post

[faa2010]

Hi there faa2010! Many good advice have been posted already but please allow me to add to this. Instead of making a full quote, I have selected what I think is the core in your concern (see the bottom of this post).

What you describe is a shared frustration that I have come across many times. And without really knowing how you practice, my experience tells me that you may not have the right approach to how you take on a new piece. The challenge can be that you may need to change a habit you had for a long time and that focused study on a new piece can feel very demanding. But his is what I believe in and I have seen it make wonders.

Then there is a lot to say about what you refer to "learn" or "can play" a piece. To what level? Recital level? That to me means playing from memory in front of people. Or do you mean play the piece in front of your teacher from the sheet music? This is a BIG difference. But I think I stop here for this post .

Thank you for your advice. Sorry if I shortened your post, but I want to answer to your questions.

In the audition posts I have uploaded some videos of my last pieces. Currently I am with new ones although I still practice Bach and Debussy´s pieces once a week.

The pieces I am learning and practicing are for recital purposes and played by heart. Although I should also practice my sight reading, but during this semester, I don't have a subject which can support that ability right now. I have tried to study sight reading on my own, but my schedule is almost full.

[ranjit]

- Always start practicing these difficult parts hands separated. Once you have mastered the full difficult sequence, go back to just a few notes but this time hands together. A good goal is to master the sequence hands separated well faster than the intended speed before you put them together (30-50% faster).
- The routine should be to practice hands separated until your hand is tired, then shift hand. This way you do not need to take breaks off the piano but always have a fresh hand to continue with.

I personally haven't found hands separate practice that useful unless it's a piece that's way above my level (say diploma or above). It's usually only required in my experience when it's simply impossible to play a figuration fast enough or accurate enough with one hand off the bat. For everything else, practicing hands together works just fine except for small chunks of time when you're trying to pay attention to a particular thing to fix in one hand. Playing hands together is different from playing hands separate. It feels like a sort of give-and-take -- the coordination between the hands feels different from playing each separately. In a way, you have to get a feel for the combined motion instead of coordinating two hands separately (unless you have two brains, in that case none of this applies to you )

[stahlbrand]

I will check the audition room for your posts. New in here .

Thank you for your advice. Sorry if I shortened your post, but I want to answer to your questions.

In the audition posts I have uploaded some videos of my last pieces. Currently I am with new ones although I still practice Bach and Debussy´s pieces once a week.

The pieces I am learning and practicing are for recital purposes and played by heart. Although I should also practice my sight reading, but during this semester, I don't have a subject which can support that ability right now. I have tried to study sight reading on my own, but my schedule is almost full.

[stahlbrand]

I personally haven't found hands separate practice that useful unless it's a piece that's way above my level (say diploma or above). It's usually only required in my experience when it's simply impossible to play a figuration fast enough or accurate enough with one hand off the bat. For everything else, practicing hands together works just fine except for small chunks of time when you're trying to pay attention to a particular thing to fix in one hand. Playing hands together is different from playing hands separate. It feels like a sort of give-and-take -- the coordination between the hands feels different from playing each separately. In a way, you have to get a feel for the combined motion instead of coordinating two hands separately (unless you have two brains, in that case none of this applies to you )

I agree it feels different and that is also partly the purpose. When I look for memorization of a piece, I find it dangerous to rely solely on muscle memory. Because once it is "in the moves", at least I tend to switch my brain off a bit (obviously it is my brain controlling my muscle memory but I think you know what I mean). If I am able to play hands separate and hands together from memory, I am in much better control in a stressful recital situation.

In preparation for a recital, my old piano teacher long time ago used to test me by saying "play left hand only from bar xx", "hands together from bar xx", "play it half speed", play without pedal" etc. The purpose was to create checkpoints if I got lost and activate my brain and have me practice with full focus. Up on the stage with the pulse up 25%, cold sweaty hands, all senses activated to max meaning you take in sounds, smell, everything you see, the comfort that I knew the piece that well helped a lot.

[sophie7leblanc]

Well, of course, you need a lot of practice and dedication to achieve something 😊
No matter if we are talking about piano or not. But I can understand you because I dropped a few times because the lessons seem to be too hard for me and I couldn't see the results that I wanted to have.
What I can propose from my experience: try to look for the online course so you can take lessons in your own phase. I’m talking not only about the level but also the timing. But you need to be self-motivated enough to proceed. Also, this could be a good additional practice without stress.
If you need a specific recommendation, I would like to suggest checking online piano classes. For me, it was easy and fun. Basically, I needed something to change the general approach.
I don’t know if that helps you, but at least you can try something new. Hope that could be inspiring! 
Good luck!

[faa2010]

Well, of course, you need a lot of practice and dedication to achieve something 😊
No matter if we are talking about piano or not. But I can understand you because I dropped a few times because the lessons seem to be too hard for me and I couldn't see the results that I wanted to have.
What I can propose from my experience: try to look for the online course so you can take lessons in your own phase. I’m talking not only about the level but also the timing. But you need to be self-motivated enough to proceed. Also, this could be a good additional practice without stress.
If you need a specific recommendation, I would like to suggest checking online piano classes. For me, it was easy and fun. Basically, I needed something to change the general approach.
I don’t know if that helps you, but at least you can try something new. Hope that could be inspiring! 
Good luck!

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.  I can't afford online courses (if I could, I could have gotten already my gold membership here and another for foreign language courses), but I have done the next thing which I think is similar: watching youtube videos of pianists which share their experiences, opinions and advice about certain piano issues.  No, they are not video tutorials, they talk about how to polish technique, piano levels, if learning scales are important, how to deal with piano mistakes like false notes or slippery fingers, classical music eras, etc.

[ranjit]

I don't really think the gold membership here is worth it if you're short on money. Most of the sheets can be found on imslp in a pinch.

I have found online resources to be quite good. You have to look for the right ones though. I personally wouldn't pay for an online piano course unless it was one-to-one with someone who knows their stuff. If it's information you're looking for, you'll find it online aplenty.

[quantum]

With regards to reply #15 by new user.

Name of business in signature.  The site is selling a music related learning app.

Reported.

[faa2010]

Hi again,

This is part of the repertoire I have been working until now:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=67347.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=67346.0

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=66868.0

I still have more pieces. If you check them, you can probably understand a bit more part of my worries.

This is also another piece I have played, but I have left to go on with new repertoire since June of the last year:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=66630.0


With Bach Sinfonias, it takes me at least a semester to learnt and master them, I have worked on the first movement of Beethoven since October and in this video this is where I am with it right now.  And with Chopin, well, it took me more than a year but it was because I had to give priorities to school and to other pieces in the process, I started to focus more in the piece since September-October where my teacher started to guide me.

What I hope is to play now a work of the WTC of Bach, the Pavane of Ravel which I have started but I left because of focusing in other pieces, and I hope to play later either a Polonaise or an Etude of Chopin (Tristesse is one of my favourites).

With Beethoven, I will finish the whole Sonata.

[noelcp]

I'd say that you're absolutely right that not a lot of good can come out of comparing yourself with others...especially savants!

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