Rap IS NOT Music

[chopiabin]

Oh wait, he's mentally ill. He actually said the other day that he felt like we were welcomed in Iraq.

[ninja600rs]

ericnolte, Ed, Chopiabin,

    Although I dont really know any of you I think its safe to assume that the opinion you are presenting was attained from any number of authors in the media.  I do understand that the media is the only way to sort through all of the happenings that are occuring around the world.  However, that is all you know - all of the information that is avaiable to and every decision that the president has to make and everything that is happening over in Iraq is not within your perception.  Given this I think insulting the man that is making these decisions with the help of numerous aids is a very immature action. - Jon

[eddie92099]

ericnolte, Ed, Chopiabin,

    Although I dont really know any of you I think its safe to assume that the opinion you are presenting was attained from any number of authors in the media.  I do understand that the media is the only way to sort through all of the happenings that are occuring around the world.  However, that is all you know - all of the information that is avaiable to and every decision that the president has to make and everything that is happening over in Iraq is not within your perception.  Given this I think insulting the man that is making these decisions with the help of numerous aids is a very immature action. - Jon

Not as immature as your failure to recognise idiocy,
Ed

[ninja600rs]

Ed,

    You just called the most powerful man in the world an idiot.  Where I come from that is a pretty idiotic thing to do. - Jon

[schnabels_grandson]

Not as immature as your failure to recognise idiocy,
Ed

So you agree that it is immature, but not as immature?  Why haven't you rectified the error that you have acknowledged?

[ChopinFreak]

Just two words for some people here:

1.- EVOLUTION
2.- RETROGRADES

For ninja600rs: This "man" is one of the most psicopatic minds ever been born. And i won't insult him just because I won't waste an insult on him.

[schnabels_grandson]

Posted by: ChopinFreak Today at 12:04am
Just two words for some people here:

1.- EVOLUTION
2.- RETROGRADES

For ninja600rs: This "man" is one of the most psicopatic minds ever been born. And i won't insult him just because I won't waste an insult on him.

What is the relevance of those two words?

Why did you put the word man in quotations?  Do you question his gender?  

I think the word you were looking for was "Psychopathic".  I don't see why you use that word, because it implies that George W. has a personality disorder that is demonstrated by anti-social behavior, which I have never seen.

Just so you know, I don't care how much you belittle the president of the United States, I just think some of your statements are rash and pointless and they betray your poor judgement and unrealistic concept of your position in this world.  Rant away, insignificant imps.

[eddie92099]

You just called the most powerful man in the world an idiot.  Where I come from that is a pretty idiotic thing to do

Why? He's an idiot. I think you need to look up some Bushisms. More seriously though, I like Michael Moore's description of him as a "fictitious president". Very apt indeed,
Ed

[ninja600rs]

Ah yes heres a viable source - Mike Moore - Ha

[eddie92099]

If you actually looked at something other than Fox News (I use the word 'news' very loosely) then you might realise there is a lot of truth in what he says. Try reading the story of Bush's election in "Stupid White Men",
Ed

[nad]

    You just called the most powerful man in the world an idiot.  Where I come from that is a pretty idiotic thing to do. - Jon

Being powerful doesn't mean you cannot be an idiot, lots of powerful persons are 'idiots' (just to stick with the word) in fact. Powerful ignorant idiots are a danger too and certainly not just to theirselves. The mass is ignorant ('the mass' being compared to a herd of sheep) and they make an ignorant idiot powerful.

For the record; ignorant meaning lack of knowledge.

[ninja600rs]

Mike Moores writing is about as mind twisting as mein kampf.  

[eddie92099]

Mike Moores writing is about as mind twisting as mein kampf.  

There are no words strong enough to describe what I think of that comment,
Ed

[thracozaag]

Mike Moores writing is about as mind twisting as mein kampf.  

 I've seen it all now...a fascist calling a liberal a fascist.  

[liszmaninopin]

Pardon me, but what are you all going on about?  This doesn't seem to relate to rap.

[ninja600rs]

All this from a person who mocks and laughs at christians for standing steadfast in thier beliefs.

[DAwud7]

I dont feel liszt mocked anyone he presented a view that is all and a much more logical view. ANd im american Bush is a nimwit stupid rich daddies boy. A former coke head he is a true legacy as all presidents have been. My personal Favs inclue Andrew Jackson who killed thousands of my Ancestors (the Native AMericans) and now i get too hold him in my wallet, And president Goerge washington who is portrayed as a Saint in history books, and that stupid apple story i hate that damn story, Goerge washington weed smoking mruderer also killed indians, Kept slaves had children with slaves (this shows his deep belief in christianitys commandment do not covet they nieghboors wife) and beat his slaves took people land u name it. And Ed is right about the Fox news thing people watch those shows Bill orielly that other dumb republican Hanitty and follow everything they say.

[DAwud7]

And too get back too rap or hip hop. I love certain groups. ONe of My favs( iknow 6thGen is gonna luv this) is a group called SUnz of Man they are part of a religous movement The house of David a Black Herbrew foundtaion in New York, but thier music is great not much profanity and all that its a deep interesing poetry with rythmic music. As are alot of other underground artists many actually use samples of classical piano music which is neat. I also perform spoken word it is another great art form and in similarity too the piano it is like Improvising.

[Rob47]

To: ROMAN,

So rap is not music?

Define music and then tell me how rap is not music.

Thanks
Rob.

[comme_le_vent]

music is defined as 'sound' having rythmic and/or melodic and/or harmonic content

all sound is not music

any sound CAN be music if it is used in a rythmic and/or melodic and/or harmonic way.

rappers rap with one tone most of the time, therefore it is melodically boring, BUT rap is all about rhythm, so if you appreciate the rhythms, then youve got a greater ability to appreciate rap.

for that matter, death metal and grindcore are also music, the sounds(timbres) they use are abrasive to the extreme, but there is indisputed(and often complex) melodic and rhythmic(not so much harmonic) content.

rap IS muis c, thats final. but wether its good music....thats up to personal taste.  

for the record, i have downloaded some rap and enjoy it on occasion, but id never call myself a big fan of rap.

[ChopinFreak]

What is the relevance of those two words?

Why did you put the word man in quotations?  Do you question his gender?  

I think the word you were looking for was "Psychopathic".  I don't see why you use that word, because it implies that George W. has a personality disorder that is demonstrated by anti-social behavior, which I have never seen.

Just so you know, I don't care how much you belittle the president of the United States, I just think some of your statements are rash and pointless and they betray your poor judgement and unrealistic concept of your position in this world.  Rant away, insignificant imps.

I think my previous post was quite clear. Just have to be clever enough.

As for my words in english.... ok ok... try to post in a foreign language. Don't need perfect spelling if you want to understand.

This is my last post in this subject. I prefer to discuss about music.

[Beet9]

It depends on your definition of music.  
John Cage thought that everything was music, which can't mean much, because then music must therefore be nothing.  
Obviously roman thinks that music must be sounds that involve the intellect.  And since rap doesn't, it is not music.
My opinion is that rap IS music, but it is very trashy, crappy, boring, disgusting music.  
Although, there is a lot of pop music that isn't so bad.  The Beatles were awesome.  John Lennon was a genius.  
So although 99% of music today is trash, you can't really stereotype anything.  

[newsgroupeuan]

My opinion is that rap IS music, but it is very trashy, crappy, boring, disgusting music.  
 

yup.  RAP is CRAP (well almost all of it)

[rachlisztchopin]

ahem...just to jump in...every sound we hear is music...so nobody cant say rap isnt music even though it has no melody...rythym and melody dont define music...sound does.,.,.now rap being a form of art is a different story.........

[Rob47]

You people are ridiculous.  Yes Rap is clearly music, and sorry lisztrachchopin to say that yes it is also an artform like it or not.

This page could have been shorter if it had started with "I hate rap music, and wonder what everyone else thinks?"

Because art,music, expression of self; rap is all of these.
It contains poetry, which has meaning that is personal to the artist and people can relate to that in many instances.  Some of the most moving songs are rap songs.  I realize musically they tend to be repetivie, in that they do have a melody but the melody is a 4- 8 bar loop that is repteated over and over gain and altered slightly one in a while and maybe for the hook its a bit different to.  


And I recommend all of you listen to a little "Xzibit - Paparazzi" so you realize that while you are all making these judgements about rap music there is more to it and then what you see on TV or hear on the radio.

The artist is Xzibit and the song is called Paparazzi its a little old from 1996.....or maybe listen to De La Soul for a more posiive look at hip hop.  And if anyone has not heard 2pac - Changes (which yo probably have)
defineilty listen to that./

Rob47

[Daevren]

First, the plant analogy was so funny, ahhaha.

Second, music is sound organised in melodic, harmonic and ritmic sense. None can be missing. Music is not entertaining sound like some dictionaries say and its also not the art of making sounds.

Third, we must conclude that some rap isn't music because it doesn't have melody or harmony. Some does, some rap has alot of melody and harmony. This is based on hard scientific facts. If you accept this defintion of music(and its hard to make up another) there isn't much to discuss about. You can measure if something is music. But does a high amount of individual units of harmonic, melodic and ritmic organisation make one musical work more musican than another? That is a hard question to answer. Maybe, but if the answer is yes would it matter? Isn't that a point that should be discussed from a point of view based on art?

Fourth, not all music is art. Music itself is worthless. Art is holy. But the definition of art is the trickest one to solve so I am not going to try. I do want to say that the intellectual choices, based on both creativity and knowledge, the artist makes is the most important factor for me.

Fifth, about politics. Forget Moore, he is a harsh populist. Read Chomsky.


Did I forget something?

[comme_le_vent]

music is defined as 'sound' having rythmic and/or melodic and/or harmonic content

clapping a rhythm with your hands is music, music can be solely rhythmic.

so therefore all rap is music. duh!  

[Daevren]

That is not true. Its not music, just like the singing of a bird isn't music. Or a guy with a hammer hitting a nail. By this definition every beating heart would produce music.

Music needs all three aspects of ways to organise sounds to be called music.

[comme_le_vent]

no it doesnt

[schnabels_grandson]

no it doesnt

You make a powerfull argument comme.

[comme_le_vent]

my argument was made previously.
and i appreciate your sincere sarcasm.

[Hazim]

Which cathegory does Alicia Keys fall into? Rap? Because, it just occured to me, she LOVES piano and makes all her songs on piano! Then she makes re-arrangements in studio. I think she has some pretty good songs.

By the way, I can not resist, I have to mention Britney Spears again - I simply do not understand how can people swollow her... Without judging her efforts to make music, because it is good that people try to be creative, and if she keeps trying, maybe one day she will manage to really make some quality music, and we should all support her in her efforts, but not allow her to terrorise us (remotes are so usefull little tools). However, the fact that she is so popular today, with her annoying screams and ridiculous songs, that really hurts. I think it is a cataclismic natural disaster. But, it is not her fault, it is the publishers, so even if we catch and lock Britney in a deaf-room  to keep her away with her efforts untill she learns how to make music (my neighbors would probobly do that to me too), the publishers will find an other "Britney" to keep the mass entertained and make money...

And one more thing: for the best bend ever walked the face of the earth, I vote, the one and the only, the best: Pink Floyd. I also need to mention Supertramp and Dire Straits.

[donjuan]

I don't like rap for the effect it has had on today's generation.  intelligence and creativity are going out the window, and we owe it all to a few "angry" black guys talking quickly, riding around in a bouncing car.

I don't have tolerance for rap or peoople involved with it.

[comme_le_vent]

your opinion is void of authenticity due to your ignorange and lack of knowledge on the subject.

judge the music as music, and dont let your extramusical perceptions and prejudices cloud your judgement of the music itself.

[donjuan]

your opinion is void of authenticity due to your ignorange and lack of knowledge on the subject.

judge the music as music, and dont let your extramusical perceptions and prejudices cloud your judgement of the music itself.

Hi comme_le_vent,
thank you for your advice.  I will now go to every joe idiot at my highschool and ask them to explain Rap to me.

[comme_le_vent]

a word of advice - have a nurse handy - those rap fans can be rather tough and violent.

[Cecin_Koot]

I agree completly with you roman

i HATE rap music.  I wish they wouldn't put rap on music channels. 

rap is a disgrace to musicians world wide.  I made a word document a few months back, and I annoyed everyone I knew on msn with it, sending it two them.  It hade reasons why I hate rappers. 

here is the document: 

How would you rate rappers 1-5?
I would give them a 0
I hate rappers.

They walk around as if they own the planet, swear too much and think they are experts of music.
Rapping and music should be a completely different thing.
Rappers have no education and have no musical knowledge.
A normal person would be better at music then a rapper.
But people follow them and say their music is the best.

Rappers are a disgrace music world wide.
And are disgraces to musicians.
They are like famous singers.
People don’t care how well or nice they can sing
As long as they are hot.

Rappers can’t sing.
They can only speak speeches in a way that makes them sound like idiots.

Some singers read the music and the words.
These are the best singers.
Some singers read the words and copy the pitch of their fellow singers or choir master in singing, memorize the pitch 
These are idiots
Some don’t know how to read music. 
But people love them.
So some idiots decide to skip the music and just say the words
These are the lowest forms of life on the face of the universe, and they make my life misrable. 

[luda888]

.................

[luda888]

They walk around as if they own the planet, swear too much and think they are experts of music.

Rappers can’t sing.

not all rappers swear. they use to live poorly so why wont u give the a break? and they could sing

[donjuan]

ok..... so why dont they ever sing well then?  and why are they always so angry about everything??

[julie391]

lol, im a fan of rap

rap is a form of singing - but it is essentially monotonic and any deviation in pitch is for expression.

rap is basically the vocal equivelant to drums - its all about rhythm.

dont try to listen for tunes, listen for clever and nice sounding rhymes and rhythms.

[Cecin_Koot]

oh no, luda888 is back

Luda you wouldn't believe how many times you have been mentioned on boards, the topics concerning your disapline are very hot topics, what did you do to make all the active members so furious with you?

[dlu]

lol, im a fan of rap

rap is a form of singing - but it is essentially monotonic and any deviation in pitch is for expression.

rap is basically the vocal equivelant to drums - its all about rhythm.

dont try to listen for tunes, listen for clever and nice sounding rhymes and rhythms.

So your saying Rapping is an equal art to Sprechstimme? I would take pierrot lunaire over rap anyday.
DLu

[dlu]

Ed,

     You just called the most powerful man in the world an idiot.  Where I come from that is a pretty idiotic thing to do. - Jon

So...it's Texas you're from?

DLu

[magnus-y]

Adorno Lives! Your vocabulary lacks a useful word: "degenerate." Enjoy your museum of culturally privelaged long-dead white guys.

[magnus-y]

There is no reason for anyone to insult the president of the United States like that.  Talk about being ignorant.

Perhaps "idiot" isn't the best word. Let Bush speak for himself:

“There ought to be limits to freedom." -George W. Bush.  May 21, 1999

"Obviously, I pray every day there's less casualty."—Fort Hood, Texas, April 11, 2004

"Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off."—Washington, D.C., Feb. 19, 2004

As to the 2nd part, maybe there was no freedom to insult Hitler. There is every reason be outraged and express it regarding an incompetant president with a dishonest staff in a country founded on the very principle of rigorous government accountability and real citizen representation. (read up on Haliburton and twice reprimanded attempts of Bush et al to disseminate illegal propaganda (Medicare etc.). They're incompetant, lying idealogues with a casual regard for free speech.

[magnus-y]

ok..... so why dont they ever sing well then?  and why are they always so angry about everything??

Well, it's essentially black music, and, uh, ever hear of slavery? lynching? Emmet Till? Man. what are they teaching you in school? It's actually alot closer to the early origins of art music in Greek sung/chanted poetry than alot of the affected overwrought junk revered in museum halls today.

[Ludwig Van Rachabji]

.................

Stop wasting forum space with:

.............................

You aren't saying anything or contributing anything to this forum. You have never been a help to anyone.

The question is, why do I bother responding to your posts? You are an annoying, immature, 13-year-old kid, with nothing better to do than waste other people's time.

I wasn't like this when I was your age. Of course, my maturity might be the reason why everyone hated me...

[Tash]

the thing i don't like about rap is the lyrics they annoy the hell out of me. and the bass, that thing gives me a headache and a half. i wouldn't say it's not music it's just damn annoying

[piano_learner]

the thing i don't like about rap is the lyrics they annoy the *** out of me. and the bass, that thing gives me a headache and a half. i wouldn't say it's not music it's just *** annoying

Tash,

The 2 things you don't like about RAP are the only 2 things in it. Basically, you don't like RAP! 

Also, I can't think of any swear words with only 3 characters 

Are you sure you didn't mean:

**** out of me

and

******* annoying