Religious Debate Room Part Duex

[eddie92099]

well maybe just because he is our commander in chief of the united states of america.

He also has the intellect of a small pancake,
Ed

[PianoProfBonsWay]

"While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.


God Bless America.
Land that I love
Stand beside her, and guide her
Thru the night with a light from above.
From the mountains, to the prairies ,
To the oceans, white with foam
God bless America
My home sweet home."

[Wired]

Well that's even worse then.

Or better. If the founding fathers didn't exercise religious beliefs, how could they keep their rights protected properly?

Who cares what brainless W and his wife do every morning?

Obviously someone, otherwise we wouldn't have this common knowledge.

You haven't been blessed with clarity of expression, that's for sure.
I'm not saying you can't believe in your fancy stories if you want to, just that it shouldn't be mixed with politics, for obvious reasons.

Obvious reasons? Like...?

[Wired]

He also has the intellect of a small pancake,

And your proof being? Sure, he's not a great public speaker, but he doesn't have to be. Sure, his administration and himself have made a few errors (but mostly were cases of incorrect information given between departments). Our whole administrations actions can't be put onto one individual. If something big happens, it requires more than one person to approve it.

Bachelor's degree from Yale, master's from Harvard -- I fail to see how a pancake can beat that.

[Noah]

PianoProfBonsWay,
If you think your country is free and fair, think again. Or better, grab a history book.

Obvious reasons? Like...?

Like the fact that religion interferes with the objective thinking that politicians should have.

Bachelor's degree from Yale, master's from Harvard -- I fail to see how a pancake can beat that.

Yeah, a pancake doesn't have a dad that's rich enough to pay for some prestigious degrees.

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Do you know what the requirements were for the Founding Fathers of our Nation to be able to run for office?

[Wired]

Like the fact that religion interferes with the objective thinking that politicians should have.

Fact? Where was this proven? Is there some study you know about that I don't? Perhaps you meant "Like the possibility," but no such correlation has ever been made.

Yeah, a pancake doesn't have a dad that's rich enough to pay for some prestigious degrees.

Do you have proof of this? If not, I suggest we stick to facts when trying to credit people's intelligence, simply because it's stupid to argue points that aren't facts.

[eddie92099]

it's stupid to argue points that aren't facts.

Actually, it's stupid to argue points that ARE facts. (On a side note, this does make your whole creationist argument rather stupid in that the world being ever so slightly older than a mere 10 000 years is a fact).

"While the storm clouds gather far across the sea,
Let us swear allegiance to a land that's free,
Let us all be grateful for a land so fair,
As we raise our voices in a solemn prayer.

Fair? America?! Have you heard of the Vietnam war?
And not to mention how George W. Bush was elected!
Ed

[Noah]

Do you have proof of this? If not, I suggest we stick to facts when trying to credit people's intelligence, simply because it's stupid to argue points that aren't facts.

Well I doubt people who really have the intelligence to get a Masters from Harvard would say such gems as :

"Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" —Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

"I know what I believe. I will continue to articulate what I believe and what I believe — I believe what I believe is right." —Rome, July 22, 2001

"I am here to make an announcement that this Thursday, ticket counters and airplanes will fly out of Ronald Reagan Airport." —Washington, D.C., Oct. 3, 2001

"I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here." —Waco, Texas, Aug. 13 2002

"The ambassador and the general were briefing me on the — the vast majority of Iraqis want to live in a peaceful, free world. And we will find these people and we will bring them to justice." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Oct. 27, 2003

"I recently met with the finance minister of the Palestinian Authority, was very impressed by his grasp of finances." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 29, 2003

"I think war is a dangerous place." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 7, 2003

[eddie92099]

"They misunderestimated me" - George W. Bush,
Ed

[Wired]

Actually, it's stupid to argue points that ARE facts. (On a side note, this does make your whole creationist argument rather stupid in that the world being ever so slightly older than a mere 10 000 years is a fact).

That again has yet to be disproven. While it has been proven in some respect, the methods used to prove it have had (so far) uncontested innacuracies raised about them.

Fair? America?! Have you heard of the Vietnam war?

We had obligations to go to Vietnam due to a (or some, I'm at work and don't have too much time ) treaty. If we don't respect treaties, the world would be in horrible trouble. However, for the amount of time we spent there -- I agree, that wasn't good.

And not to mention how George W. Bush was elected!

What? Fairly? If you think our electoral college setup is not fair, well, I think you're misinfomed. Sure the circumstances were awkward, but I think that is mainly because the media reports things before they are official.

[Wired]

Well I doubt people who really have the intelligence to get a Masters from Harvard would say such gems as:

Well, you need to insert a comma after "well" because it is an interjection. Master's needs an apostrophe and technically should be lowercase unless you provide which kind of degree it pertains to. "Who" should really be "whom."

As I said (indirectly), public speaking is not a measure of intelligence. Whether or not someone can speak English well is not a measure of how much knowledge, common sense, and other intellectual traits of an individual. For example, I was required to take a single public speaking class to obtain my degree in Computer Science, which lies inside of the College of Engineering. Are you implying that every geek and nerd that doesn't have any public speaking skills has no intelligence -- or at least not enough intelligence to have graduated from a prestigious school?

[eddie92099]

We had obligations to go to Vietnam due to a (or some, I'm at work and don't have too much time ) treaty. If we don't respect treaties, the world would be in horrible trouble. However, for the amount of time we spent there -- I agree, that wasn't good.

What are you talking about? America went to war for their own selfish purposes and don't even try to say otherwise. There was no such treaty, and even if there were, I don't think events such as the My Lai massacre were justified! Honestly...

What? Fairly? If you think our electoral college setup is not fair, well, I think you're misinfomed. Sure the circumstances were awkward, but I think that is mainly because the media reports things before they are official.            

You obviously have no idea how your own president was elected. The media report you are referring to was by a TV network who's chairman is George Bush's cousin by the way. What about the fact that the Republicans basically bought the Florida vote? (If you don't believe me just say and I will elaborate!),
Ed

[PianoProfBonsWay]

I've talked with VA's who have been in "fox-holes" at death's door and they have said, "Don't talk against what is happening in America ~ my beloved America and my Creator God until you have been in a "fox-hole" and served on foreign soil.," ~ then you will change your opinions about our land, and appreciate what we do have, which may be far from perfect, but better than foreign-soil problems. When I see corruption in high places, even in city govt. and don't like it, and there is no way I can change it even with trying, my husband and I solve the problem by praying for it to change. When we came to Whittier AK ~ so much wrong was happening and had been this way for the last 10 years, my husband and I started addressing the needs of change 2 years ago, and today ALL the head people quit and now we have honorable people in leadership of this town.  We have unity in govt and no private agenda's. And, even the un-churched people in our community said prayer was the reason why it changed.

My husband is 65 years old a VA and I am 63 years old, we have seen all the bad and good happenings in our blessed America, thus having a fuller understanding why this happened this way when it should of happened that way, or it shouldn't of happened at all.  

We, as American Citizens continue to address people, write letters when we don't agree with our President and Leaders.

I had a friend who was 70 years old, and I was only in my 20's tell me, "Don't judge that person, until you have walked in their shoes for a while."

I don't judge you all either, only share with you what is in my heart and what I have learned from those years.

I have only asked God for His guidance and wisdom, and I have never been disappointed.

[Noah]

Well, you need to insert a comma after "well" because it is an interjection. Master's needs an apostrophe and technically should be lowercase unless you provide which kind of degree it pertains to. "Who" should really be "whom."

1- English is not my first language
2- I'm not the president of the USA

If we don't respect treaties, the world would be in horrible trouble

Is this some kind of sarcasm ? What did the USA do 6 months ago ?

Are you implying that every geek and nerd that doesn't have any public speaking skills has no intelligence -- or at least not enough intelligence to have graduated from a prestigious school?

I'm not criticising his way of speaking here (though examples oh his pancake-like level of literacy are abundant), but the content of his speeches.
And anyway, his mistakes are not like forgetting the comma in Master's, but more like the "I be W and me dad buyed me nice diploma".

[Wired]

What are you talking about? America went to war for their own selfish purposes and don't even try to say otherwise. There was no such treaty,

https://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Southeast-Asia-Treaty-Organization- The Southeast Asia Treaty Organization, an alliance formed to oppose further Communistic gains in Southeast Asia.

and even if there were, I don't think events such as the My Lai massacre were justified! Honestly...

No, it doesn't, but it does give us a non-selfish reason (before you reply, click that link -- Great Britain was a member of that organization) to be in the war in the first place. We also have better training in dealing with non-hostile citizens because of the incident.

What about the fact that the Republicans basically bought the Florida vote? (If you don't believe me just say and I will elaborate!)

Please do.

[Wired]

1- English is not my first language
2- I'm not the president of the USA

Fair enough.

Is this some kind of sarcasm ? What did the USA do 6 months ago ?

I assume you're talking about the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty? If not, please do say which treaty you speak of. If so, please say how it was out of line.

I'm not criticising his way of speaking here (though examples oh his pancake-like level of literacy are abundant), but the content of his speeches.

Sadly, the content of 90% of his speeches aren't written by him.

And anyway, his mistakes are not like forgetting the comma in Master's, but more like the "I be W and me dad buyed me nice diploma".

Again, I don't see how speech can represent intelligence.

And I also don't see how no one else realizes that the President has very little specific powers that he can use without prior authority by other sections of the government. Even the powers that he does possess, they are rarely used without prior approval from Congress. Add to that the fact that the President has a full cabinet that advises him.

The President, although an icon of power in the US, doesn't actually get much accomplished by himself. Rather than blame George W., we should put the blame on everyone. While that doesn't really make us feel better (we, as humans, try to blame someone for everything), it does make more sense.

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Wired,

Thank you for your keen sense of understanding how our government runs ~ people run it, not just one person, whom we all point out good or bad. We have checks and balances in our govt., for none of us are always right all the time.            

I love America ~ she is not perfect, but I am proud of her, and that I live in America, and that I am a citizen of USA.   AND, that we all can POST our opinions for or against on such a open forum such as this one.

[eddie92099]

I have only asked God for His guidance and wisdom, and I have never been disappointed.

But have you ever gotten a response?!

Southeast Asia Treaty Organization, an alliance formed to oppose further Communistic gains in Southeast Asia.

What connection do any of these countries have with Vietnam?! And therefore, what right do the USA have being there? There is absolutely no reason for their involvement except their own "security" at the expense of others.

No, it doesn't, but it does give us a non-selfish reason (before you reply, click that link -- Great Britain was a member of that organization) to be in the war in the first place.

As I have just said, it clearly doesn't.

We also have better training in dealing with non-hostile citizens because of the incident.

Well I should hope so too!

Please do.

This is what I remember from off the top of my head:

• Florida was the crucial deciding state at the election.
• About 50 000 voters (all of them minorities who would have voted democrats or white democrats) were not allowed to vote if their names shared any resemblance to a convicted criminal in any other state. For example, a convicted criminal named Jon Michaels in North Carolina would disqualify anybody named Jon, Jonny, or Jonathon Michaels in Florida from voting. Indeed, one person was disqualified from voting for a crime had supposedly committed in 2007! (According to official records).
• Furthermore, around 1 000 republican votes were counted (remember, Florida was only won by about 150 votes) which should not have been allowed at all - these included votes without US postal marks on - i.e. they were from people living abroad and from convicted criminals who were therefore not eligible to vote.
• One would think this would be a huge affair - however the lady who was responsible for making sure the voting in Florida was as fair as possible also had another job - she was one of Bush's senior election campaigners.
• Before the votes had finished being counted, a certain television network, incidentally one whose chairman is George Bush's cousin, announced Bush had won Florida. Wouldn't the governor of Florida be slightly concerned with the "result" being broadcast prematurely? No - the governor of Florida is Jed Bush, George's brother.
• Despite all the problems with the recounting of votes which we all know about, and the fact that Al Gore actually managed to obtain more votes than Bush, the decision on what to do was given to the Supreme Court. Two thirds of the nine judges were appointed by republican leaders (most by George Bush Snr.). One of the judge's wives was high up in George Bush's administration and would therefore be out of a job if the republicans did not win Florida (this type of situation was not uncommon within the members of the Supreme Court). Not surprisingly, the decision was to give Florida to Bush, without which Gore would have been president.
• An official report was due to be released months later on the controversy surrounding the election, but was interrupted by 9/11.

I assume you're talking about the 1972 anti-ballistic missile treaty? If not, please do say which treaty you speak of. If so, please say how it was out of line.

He said six months ago. Heard of Iraq?
Ed

[Wired]

What connection do any of these countries have with Vietnam?! And therefore, what right do the USA have being there? There is absolutely no reason for their involvement except their own "security" at the expense of others.

What connection do we have with you? Nothing, that doesn't mean we don't try to help you out when we can, and you try to help us out when we can. This alliance was formed to prevent communistic gains in Southeast Asia. That is one reason for us entering the war. How is that not unselfish?

This is what I remember from off the top of my head:

1. Having relations to people who are in charge of things doesn't mean that they will unethically go against their duties to ensure things go well for you.
2. "The" TV station that reported it wasn't just one station, it was every station. Technically, no one gets elected on the voting day, and people's votes don't actually decide who the President is. Instead, the votes only direct the electors to vote in a certain direction. They are in no way required to vote a certain way.

Despite all of these facts, TV stations report the winner the night of the election. Sure, it hasn't happened where the electors change sides enough that it changes the result of the election, but electors have changed sides.

He said six months ago. Heard of Iraq?

Yes, and I asked what treaty.

[eddie92099]

What connection do we have with you? Nothing, that doesn't mean we don't try to help you out when we can, and you try to help us out when we can. This alliance was formed to prevent communistic gains in Southeast Asia. That is one reason for us entering the war. How is that not unselfish?

So - America view communism as evil and therefore they see it as their duty to rid South-East Asia of it. This does not give them the right to actually try and rid South-East Asia of it! Who made them the world's policemen?!

1. Having relations to people who are in charge of things doesn't mean that they will unethically go against their duties to ensure things go well for you.    

Wake up.

2. "The" TV station that reported it wasn't just one station, it was every station.

It was one TV station originally. Once they had reported it, of course every other station reported it too.

Yes, and I asked what treaty.      

They didn't break a treaty as such, just International Law! Which is worse?!
Ed

[Wired]

So - America view communism as evil and therefore they see it as their duty to rid South-East Asia of it.

Great Britain did too.

This does not give them the right to actually try and rid South-East Asia of it! Who made them the world's policemen?!

Originally I don't think our goal was to oust communism, but rather help hold up democracy that was in South Vietnam.

Wake up.

Sorry, I won't sleep-type again, I promise.

It was one TV station originally. Once they had reported it, of course every other station reported it too.

Yes, but if you read the rest of my post you'd realize that everyone is premature in announcing voting decisions unless they wait until January 6 to hear the official reading of the electors ballots.

They didn't break a treaty as such, just International Law! Which is worse?!

And so where's the irony?

[eddie92099]

Great Britain did too.

But we didn't kill thousands of innocent Vietnamese civillians trying to uphold it did we?

Originally I don't think our goal was to oust communism, but rather help hold up democracy that was in South Vietnam.          

Rather? They are the same thing you idiot.

Sorry, I won't sleep-type again, I promise.      

Way to avoid the point.

Yes, but if you read the rest of my post you'd realize that everyone is premature in announcing voting decisions unless they wait until January 6 to hear the official reading of the electors ballots.

But the votes hadn't finished being counted! Are you going to completely avoid the rest of my post (a comment on all the disqualified voters would be nice...)?

And so where's the irony?        

I never said anything about irony,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

break it up wired and eddie.  Ed, there is no need for name calling in a debate.  That is very immature of you.  

He also has the intellect of a small pancake,
Ed

is that a silver dollar pancake or your regular aunt jemima style?

What did the USA do 6 months ago ?

where have you been mister? are you just coming out of the closet for the first time in your life? WE WENT TO WAR WITH IRAQ!  

I have only asked God for His guidance and wisdom, and I have never been disappointed.  




But have you ever gotten a response?!

I sure hope you dont mean verbal.  If so, you really need to understand christianity better.  

the decision was to give Florida to Bush, without which Gore would have been president.

thank goodness that didnt work out.  

Way to avoid the point.

And likewise to you ed.
Interesting, no one has pointed out that Iraq has broken many treaties in the past 10 years.  Interesting, most of you could care less about the lives we are loosing or lost in vietnam and iraq.  Let me ask you this, Given 9/11 and your in george bush's shoes...what would you do?  would you sit back like billy clinton and launch a couple of missles at aspirin factories?  Dont you think we should fight for our freedom.  So we can be "LESS" oppressed by terrorism.  Do you think the talks with the UN were going anywhere?  Give me some feedback.

What did I tell you about personal attacks? They get you nowhere.

hence that is why he still does them. He is going nowhere with his mindset.

[Wired]

But we didn't kill thousands of innocent Vietnamese civillians trying to uphold it did we?

No, but my original point is that we didn't back out of a treaty among several countries.

Rather? They are the same thing you idiot.

What did I tell you about personal attacks? They get you nowhere.

They are not the same thing. To protect something is not the same thing as trying to get rid of the thing that attacks what you are protecting. I'm tempted to refer to you in the same way you referred to me.

Way to avoid the point.

*bows* There was no point in that line.

But the votes hadn't finished being counted! Are you going to completely avoid the rest of my post (a comment on all the disqualified voters would be nice...)?

I was trying to avoid quoting such a large message.

Basically, there were errors and are problems. That's why people are trying to make all electronic systems for voting (which isn't that hard, I don't know how they keep messing up).

The Supreme Court decision originally was that Gore had met his burden of proof to allow a recount. However, a partial recount doesn't guarantee equal voting power to each citizen, as a partial recount means that new votes were considered when others possibly should have as well. This is guaranteed under the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses.

However, this, the supreme court decision, and anything else doesn't really matter. If it truly was the obvious thing -- that Gore should have one -- the electors could easily have voted for Gore instead. After all, they are supposed to reflect the public's intent (although they are not required to).

I never said anything about irony

Right... and the original point was:

Is this some kind of sarcasm ? What did the USA do 6 months ago ?

So, I'm sorry. I meant sarcasm.

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Have you looked up 14,000 days on the Internet?

Have you read Matt. 24 in the Bible.

Nothing can stop what is suppose to happen told in the Bible Prophecy.  Most has already been fulfilled.

Situations are not going to get better in our world, until the Son of God returns.

All through the Bible History shows man repeating history, and evil and good upon this world.

There are some God fearing men who became leaders, and some that were evil.

Soon one is coming after the Rapture, that will bring peace for 3 1/2 years,  and after that he is worse then any person can imagine for another 3 1/2 years....EVIL!

I can put my Bible next to the world news, and they match as to what is happening and will happen soon.

God said we would not know the day or hour, but he didn't say we would not know the year....14,000 days is really looking interesting.

Regardless, Christians are going to come back to rule and reign with the Son of God, before man completely destroys themselves.

Knowing the end of the prophecy makes life have great meaning, and knowing I serve not self, but HIM, Jesus Christ the coming King  ~ WOW!~ THAT WILL MEAN finally real peace on earth.

You all are probably young, but the real living is going to be on the other side with God's Son, our coming King.

Hope to see you there ~ seriously ~ this is my prayer.

Have a great day!  

Wrote this at 4 am in the morning....just getting to bed. Probably lots of mistakes, but hope you get the message.

[eddie92099]

break it up wired and eddie.  Ed, there is no need for name calling in a debate.  That is very immature of you.

"The French are nothing but cheese eating surrender monkeys." George W. Bush.

where have you been mister? are you just coming out of the closet for the first time in your life? WE WENT TO WAR WITH IRAQ!

WE KNOW! THAT WAS THE POINT!

I sure hope you dont mean verbal.  If so, you really need to understand christianity better.  

I understand that you worship something that won't give you a response.

thank goodness that didnt work out.

Not what Iraqi civillians would say I'm sure!

Interesting, no one has pointed out that Iraq has broken many treaties in the past 10 years.

So it makes it okay for the USA to?

Interesting, most of you could care less about the lives we are loosing or lost in vietnam and iraq.

When did anyone ever say this?

Let me ask you this, Given 9/11 and your in george bush's shoes...what would you do?  would you sit back like billy clinton and launch a couple of missles at aspirin factories?  Dont you think we should fight for our freedom.  So we can be "LESS" oppressed by terrorism.  Do you think the talks with the UN were going anywhere?  Give me some feedback.
hence that is why he still does them. He is going nowhere with his mindset.            

For a start, one thing I don't do is break international law. Not only can the war on Iraq by definition be classed as terrorism, but also the threat of terrorism on the USA is now greater after the war!

No, but my original point is that we didn't back out of a treaty among several countries.

I ask you again: What right do you have being there in the first place?

Basically, there were errors and are problems. That's why people are trying to make all electronic systems for voting (which isn't that hard, I don't know how they keep messing up).

The Supreme Court decision originally was that Gore had met his burden of proof to allow a recount. However, a partial recount doesn't guarantee equal voting power to each citizen, as a partial recount means that new votes were considered when others possibly should have as well. This is guaranteed under the Equal Protection and Due Process clauses.

However, this, the supreme court decision, and anything else doesn't really matter. If it truly was the obvious thing -- that Gore should have one -- the electors could easily have voted for Gore instead. After all, they are supposed to reflect the public's intent (although they are not required to).

How very democratic!  .

So, I'm sorry. I meant sarcasm.      

I did not say anything about sarcasm,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

Interesting, most of you could care less about the lives we are loosing or lost in vietnam and iraq.  



When did anyone ever say this?

nobody did. But nobody mentioned it or even cares to.

For a start, one thing I don't do is break international law. Not only can the war on Iraq by definition be classed as terrorism, but also the threat of terrorism on the USA is now greater after the war!

So us trying to disrupt the terrorism network is an act of terror in itself? cmon man.  How is the threat of terror any greater than 9/11 eddy? we lost what?,5000 people or more in that!  That is alot more than these little acts of terror in Israel and other places like that with those suicide bombers.

I ask you again: What right do you have being there in the first place?

Im guessing your talking about vietnam. But Im sure you could imply it to Iraq as well.  The right we have to be in iraq is to stop or at least severely disrupt the terrorism network.  Sounds like a tv station:)  Whether or not we find WMD, I dont care.  We are disrupting their network for sure being over there.  We all know they had WMD, they had plenty of time to dispose/transport it elsewhere.  Im guessing we should hit Iran next.  That is if we havent secretly yet done it.  Im sure we have some special ops over there checking it out.  

How very democratic!  .

*cough*republican*cough*
Ya, I dont know what pianoproffesor is saying about the bible and 14000 days.  Unless wired could shed some light.  

Yeah, so how come things like 9/11 attacks couldn't be foreseen when you've got such a religious president ?

talk about taking things literaly.  We are talking about the Bible, not some chain smoking Miss Cleo(who dis fraud by teh way) We are talking in a general sense about how things are the way the bible said they would be.  The bible doesnt give specific terror attacks listed before the end times.  I know we are not that illiterate about the bible are we? If so pick it up and read it. I know I need to some more and maybe this forum will inspire me to.  Well, ultimately God does the inspiring to be correct n all.

Knowing the end of the prophecy makes life have great meaning, and knowing I serve not self, but HIM, Jesus Christ the coming King  ~ WOW!~ THAT WILL MEAN finally real peace on earth

Totally awesome, dude. Calm down, and stop smoking drugs.

what then, is the meaning of life then?

[Noah]

I can put my Bible next to the world news, and they match as to what is happening and will happen soon.

Yeah, so how come things like 9/11 attacks couldn't be foreseen when you've got such a religious president ?

God said we would not know the day or hour, but he didn't say we would not know the year....14,000 days is really looking interesting.

Or is it ?

Regardless, Christians are going to come back to rule and reign with the Son of God, before man completely destroys themselves.

Was W your English teacher ?

Knowing the end of the prophecy makes life have great meaning, and knowing I serve not self, but HIM, Jesus Christ the coming King  ~ WOW!~ THAT WILL MEAN finally real peace on earth.

Totally awesome, dude. Calm down, and stop smoking drugs.

Wrote this at 4 am in the morning....just getting to bed. Probably lots of mistakes, but hope you get the message.

Mistakes like.... none of this makes any sense ?

[Noah]

these little acts of terror in Israel and other places like that with those suicide bombers.

Does your stupidy grow exponentially ?I'm tempted to call that sentence racist.

Im guessing we should hit Iran next

You're guessing your country should start a war and kill a few thousand civilians ?

[TwinkleFingers]

You're guessing your country should start a war and kill a few thousand civilians ?

Start a war? Hey bud, as far as I am concerned we are still at war.  I know we declared an end to the war on Iraq. But as far as I am concerened we are still at war. no I am not saying to kill civilians, although sadly that is what happens in war alot of times. I am saying that we probably need to look further than Iraq and Afganistan.

Does your stupidy grow exponentially ?I'm tempted to call that sentence racist.

racist? how so? Im just given the facts man. When I think of racists, I think of people using racial slang. n****r or something like that. All I was saying is that those acts of terror are on a much smaller scale over there than that of 9/11. and you go and blow this thing into a racist remark. on what grounds? you can be tempted to call it whatever you like. wrong you will be.

This is what I remember from off the top of my head:

looks like a copy/paste to me lol:)

[Wired]

"The French are nothing but cheese eating surrender monkeys." George W. Bush.

I believe you are mistaken. Fox News said this, not George W.

So it makes it okay for the USA to?

I asked which treaties.

For a start, one thing I don't do is break international law. Not only can the war on Iraq by definition be classed as terrorism, but also the threat of terrorism on the USA is now greater after the war!

The whole war was based off misinformation between different government organizations. I believe this debate started as to challenge the intellect of our President. I don't hold Bush responsible for everything our entire government does, and neither should anyone else. I'm not going to argue whether or not the war was good -- I feel opinionated on both sides, as my stepbrother belongs to the air force, and I have beliefs against war (in most circumstances).

I ask you again: What right do you have being there in the first place?

The same right that any other country in that treaty organization had. We happened to be the only people directly trying to uphold the treaty.

How very democratic!  .

It is democratic -- it's more like a representative democracy though, but it isn't really that either. It's a nice balance.

I did not say anything about sarcasm

Then why did you reply to that point to begin with? I questioned which treaty because Noah thought I was being sarcastic about how we were upholding a treaty when entering Vietnam. Then you reply, and I still haven't figured out why you replied in the first place to this point, since the original question never was answered.

[Noah]

racist? how so? Im just given the facts man. When I think of racists, I think of people using racial slang. n****r or something like that

You're one of those guys who consider that the death of one of his fellow Americans is more important than the death of someone in a country far away. That's not exactly racism, but it's just as bad.
Israeli (and Palestinian) people have to live in fear every day, while you had to suffer that terrible attack once. You don't have to wonder every day if your kids will come back alive from school. So don't come and present America as the martyr of terrorism using your pointless comparisons. Besides, USA didn't seem to care that much about freedom and justice before 9/11. If the war in Iraq really had been about defending freedom, it would have happened 10 or 15 years ago.

Start a war? Hey bud, as far as I am concerned we are still at war.  I know we declared an end to the war on Iraq. But as far as I am concerened we are still at war

Oh, so does that mean you can go at war with any country because you're "still at war" with Iraq ??

[BoliverAllmon]

Noah, I find your quote quite amusing considering the topic.

boliver

[eddie92099]

So us trying to disrupt the terrorism network is an act of terror in itself? cmon man.  How is the threat of terror any greater than 9/11 eddy? we lost what?,5000 people or more in that!  That is alot more than these little acts of terror in Israel and other places like that with those suicide bombers.

If you knew the definition of terrorism you would understand  - "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons". That is exactly what the war on Iraq was!
Noah pointed out quite rightly that you have suffered one terrorist attack when they occur much more frequently in the Middle East, and before 9/11 America didn't seem to be that interested!

Im guessing your talking about vietnam. But Im sure you could imply it to Iraq as well.  The right we have to be in iraq is to stop or at least severely disrupt the terrorism network.  Sounds like a tv station:)  Whether or not we find WMD, I dont care.  We are disrupting their network for sure being over there.  We all know they had WMD, they had plenty of time to dispose/transport it elsewhere.  Im guessing we should hit Iran next.  That is if we havent secretly yet done it.  Im sure we have some special ops over there checking it out.  

America has NO right to be in Iraq. They were not under threat from Saddam Hussein before the war, so self-defence won't justify it. I say it again: The USA is not the world's policemen. Furthermore, do you have any idea about Iran's situation or do you just presume it to be full of terrorists since it's in the Middle East (that is the impression I am getting!)?

Start a war? Hey bud, as far as I am concerned we are still at war.  I know we declared an end to the war on Iraq. But as far as I am concerened we are still at war.  

Yes it is really hard for you isn't it? You can't even step outside without fear... .

no I am not saying to kill civilians, although sadly that is what happens in war alot of times. I am saying that we probably need to look further than Iraq and Afganistan.

Since nothing has been found there that links them to terrorism!

looks like a copy/paste to me lol:)      

I'll take that as a compliment! I assure you it is not copy and pasted. If you don't believe me I urge you to type a phrase from it into AltaVista.

I believe you are mistaken. Fox News said this, not George W.

That wasn't what the newspapers over here said.

I'm not going to argue whether or not the war was good -- I feel opinionated on both sides, as my stepbrother belongs to the air force, and I have beliefs against war (in most circumstances).      

What relevance has your step-brother got? After all, it was you that said "Having relations to people who are in charge of things doesn't mean that they will unethically go against their duties to ensure things go well for you".      

The same right that any other country in that treaty organization had. We happened to be the only people directly trying to uphold the treaty.

Which was no right at all! Unless Vietnam sign that treaty, you have no right being there! When will you realise this?!

It is democratic -- it's more like a representative democracy though, but it isn't really that either. It's a nice balance.

Representative of who? The democrats who weren't allowed to vote?
Ed

[BoliverAllmon]

I was under the impression that Gore actually had more votes than bush did in Florida, but that Bush won more districts, hence giving him the electoral college.

Boliver

[BoliverAllmon]

Here is something else. I have noticed that Eddie is just looking for a fight. YOU DON"T LIVE IN AMERICA SO WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT WE DO? Fix your own problems before trying to gripe and fix ours. You must take the plank out of your eye before removing the spec from your brothers.

boliver

[Noah]

YOU DON"T LIVE IN AMERICA SO WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT WE DO?

Because you mess up with the world ?
You don't live in Iraq, so why do you care what they do ?

[TwinkleFingers]

Because you mess up with the world ?

British are fighting with us too dont forget now.

You don't live in Iraq, so why do you care what they do ?

Because they have reason to believe they are funding the terrorism that struck us and that is striking everyday to those people in israel(that I do care about)I cant imagine living like they do. And guess what? WE will turn into one of those countries if we dont do something about that.

I was under the impression that Gore actually had more votes than bush did in Florida, but that Bush won more districts, hence giving him the electoral college.

I hope that settles it then.

America has NO right to be in Iraq.

I guess your mad because your terrorism network is all fudged. Seriously what are you going to do about terrorism? List alternatives Ed.  You have to cut the head off the snake to kill it.  ITs just that terrorism is a multiheaded snake that makes it much harder to kill.  

They were not under threat from Saddam Hussein before the war, so self-defence won't justify it.

not directly under threat but indirectly. they were funding the terrorists network to keep it alive.

Furthermore, do you have any idea about Iran's situation or do you just presume it to be full of terrorists since it's in the Middle East (that is the impression I am getting!)?

I would call Iran the capitol of terrorism right now!

You're one of those guys who consider that the death of one of his fellow Americans is more important than the death of someone in a country far away. That's not exactly racism, but it's just as bad.

Dude you need to stop with this racism bull-crap.  I care about everyone.  

Israeli (and Palestinian) people have to live in fear every day, while you had to suffer that terrible attack once.

And I think bush and his crew is doing the best they can do at the given time to try to stop further attacks.(except stopping young boys from boarding planes with boxcutters and other stuff )

You don't have to wonder every day if your kids will come back alive from school. So don't come and present America as the martyr of terrorism using your pointless comparisons.

1. No kids 2. IF I did have them I would fear more about school shootings then terror at the given time. 3. 9/11 is far from pointless. It was devistating.  

If the war in Iraq really had been about defending freedom, it would have happened 10 or 15 years ago.

Well not while Billy boy Clinton was in office that is for sure:) I think if AL Gore was in office, he would be doing nothing about 9/11.  But I kinda agree with what your saying there. We should of had better intelligence and broke up the network of terror. Of course it evidently wasn't formed like it is today also.

I believe you are mistaken. Fox News said this, not George W.  



That wasn't what the newspapers over here said.

Ya and Im sure your news isnt biased like some of ours over here in the US.

[Wired]

I urge you to type a phrase from it into AltaVista.

AltaVista? That's still alive? Use google

That wasn't what the newspapers over here said.

Well, there's another case of mistaken reporting. It's almost as bad as: https://slashdot.org/articles/02/06/07/1829212.shtml.

What relevance has your step-brother got?

Well, a fighting soldier has a different viewpoint than someone who doesn't obviously.

After all, it was you that said "Having relations to people who are in charge of things doesn't mean that they will unethically go against their duties to ensure things go well for you".

After all, I wasn't talking about anything like this. It's not like he gave me something because he's in the Air Force, unless you consider him talking to me about issues giving me something, or giving me an unfair advantage. All I said is I can see both sides from at the beginning of the war.

Which was no right at all! Unless Vietnam sign that treaty, you have no right being there! When will you realise this?!

When will you realize that forming an alliance with other countries (including the one you're arguing from) is all that makes up international trade and law? Are you saying that the United Nations has no authority to do anything if it involves entering some country?

If everyone who formed that treaty organization formed it under the assumption that they wouldn't ever enforce it, then why form it at all?

Representative of who? The democrats who weren't allowed to vote?

Representative of the popular demand. However, the founding fathers realized they shouldn't trust us, which is why we have an elector system.

[Noah]

When will you realize that forming an alliance with other countries (including the one you're arguing from) is all that makes up international trade and law? Are you saying that the United Nations has no authority to do anything if it involves entering some country?

No, but the United Nations security council has to vote whether a country can take action in another country.

If everyone who formed that treaty organization formed it under the assumption that they wouldn't ever enforce it, then why form it at all?

Are you saying that treaties are made to be enforced ? That's ridiculous.

Representative of the popular demand. However, the founding fathers realized they shouldn't trust us, which is why we have an elector system.

So the founding father already didn't trust their own fellow Americans ?? Oh well maybe they got that point right.

If the war in Iraq really had been about defending freedom, it would have happened 10 or 15 years ago.  

Well not while Billy boy Clinton was in office that is for sure I think if AL Gore was in office, he would be doing nothing about 9/11.

Can you even count up to 15 ? I don't think Bill Clinton was president 15 years ago. Oh wait, the period I'm talking about is the presidency of Reagan and.... Daddy Bush ! What a coincidence !

[TwinkleFingers]

No, but the United Nations security council has to vote whether a country can take action in another country.

screw the U.N.!!! They are a bunch ignorant people as well. When do you think they would give us authority to go to any country to wage war?

Are you saying that treaties are made to be enforced ? That's ridiculous.

then why make them at all? they renders them useless if not enforced.

So the founding father already didn't trust their own fellow Americans ?? Oh well maybe they got that point right.

Im glad you can agree on at least one point we make:)

Can you even count up to 15 ? I don't think Bill Clinton was president 15 years ago. Oh wait, the period I'm talking about is the presidency of Reagan and.... Daddy Bush ! What a coincidence !

can you stop with the childish insults please. really!  Grow up will you.  Bill clinton would fall in 8 of those years dont you think? thats a major portion of the 15 years. Anyway I was sort of agreeing with you on that point you made about us taking care of this earlier. So stop with you childish remarks. Care to comment on what Al Gore would do in these times? Im really interested in what some of you might say.
Also about the 10 commandments being taken down and moved in a secluded location of the court, What is wrong with our nation? THey dont want to offend anyone by leaving them there. Well dont I count for a human being offended?  And if some buhdist or islamic person is offended by it, leave our country and practice your religion elsewhere.  Im really angry about all of this.  We, as christians, should pray for forgiveness on what is happening and that our country would start to put God first.  Im guessing, with the way things are going, that they are going to take "in God we trust" off of our currency as well

[Noah]

screw the U.N.!!!

And if some buhdist or islamic person is offended by it, leave our country and practice your religion elsewhere.

That pretty much says it all about you.

[eddie92099]

YOU DON"T LIVE IN AMERICA SO WHY DO YOU CARE WHAT WE DO?

I'm not going to validate this pathetic statement with a response.

British are fighting with us too dont forget now.

I'm not proud of that.

Because they have reason to believe they are funding the terrorism that struck us and that is striking everyday to those people in israel(that I do care about)I cant imagine living like they do.    

There is still no evidence.

I hope that settles it then.      

It doesn't settle anything. What about all the votes that should never have been allowed, and all the non-votes which should have been allowed?

You have to cut the head off the snake to kill it.  ITs just that terrorism is a multiheaded snake that makes it much harder to kill.  

One of those heads is your own.

not directly under threat but indirectly. they were funding the terrorists network to keep it alive.  

There is no evidence of this.

I would call Iran the capitol of terrorism right now!      

Why is that?!

And I think bush and his crew is doing the best they can do at the given time to try to stop further attacks.

War with Iraq won't cause any further resentment...oh...wait, yes it will.

Ya and Im sure your news isnt biased like some of ours over here in the US.        

I don't read the Daily Mail.

Well, a fighting soldier has a different viewpoint than someone who doesn't obviously.      

I was wondering why your viewpoint should change.

All I said is I can see both sides from at the beginning of the war.      

You need a relative actually fighting to be able to do that? That's pretty pathetic.

When will you realize that forming an alliance with other countries (including the one you're arguing from) is all that makes up international trade and law?  

When will you realise that unless Vietnam sign that treaty, you have absolutely no right in being there? Does bullying become acceptable when enough people do it?

If everyone who formed that treaty organization formed it under the assumption that they wouldn't ever enforce it, then why form it at all?      

I'm not entirely sure why they did form a treaty that would require entry into a non-treaty signing country to uphold it.

Representative of the popular demand. However, the founding fathers realized they shouldn't trust us, which is why we have an elector system.        

They were right!

screw the U.N.!!! They are a bunch ignorant people as well. When do you think they would give us authority to go to any country to wage war?          

You could almost be George Bush himself!

then why make them at all? they renders them useless if not enforced.      

I suggest you obtain a basic knowledge of history.

Also about the 10 commandments being taken down and moved in a secluded location of the court, What is wrong with our nation? THey dont want to offend anyone by leaving them there. Well dont I count for a human being offended?  And if some buhdist or islamic person is offended by it, leave our country and practice your religion elsewhere.

They do offend people though - it says: "These are the rules to live by. If you do not agree, then you are wrong." By the way, an Islamic person is called a Muslim  .  

Im guessing, with the way things are going, that they are going to take "in God we trust" off of our currency as well

One can hope,
Ed

[eddie92099]

And if some buhdist or islamic person is offended by it, leave our country and practice your religion elsewhere.  

YOUR country? Remember - America is a land of immigrants,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

There is still no evidence.

are you sure about this?

That pretty much says it all about you.

That pretty much says that I am offended by the removal of the 10 commandments and they dont care about it.

It doesn't settle anything. What about all the votes that should never have been allowed, and all the non-votes which should have been allowed?

what about the fact the election is over and its time to move on!  Al Gore would suck as a president anyway.

One of those heads is your own.

your humor is as dry as the paint on my walls.

There is no evidence of this

are you still positive about this?

I would call Iran the capitol of terrorism right now!    



Why is that?!

well because Iraq and Afganistan are a little "disrupted" sort of speak.

War with Iraq won't cause any further resentment...oh...wait, yes it will.

not going to war would leave the terrorists alone and let them get even stronger!

Ya and Im sure your news isnt biased like some of ours over here in the US.      



I don't read the Daily Mail.

So what I dont either!

Representative of the popular demand. However, the founding fathers realized they shouldn't trust us, which is why we have an elector system.    



They were right!

If they were right then the 10 commandments should also be left alone!

screw the U.N.!!! They are a bunch ignorant people as well. When do you think they would give us authority to go to any country to wage war?      



You could almost be George Bush himself!

shhhhhh! be verry verry quiet.

They do offend people though - it says: "These are the rules to live by. If you do not agree, then you are wrong."

only those who do not try to follow them and want to lead a life of sin.

Im guessing, with the way things are going, that they are going to take "in God we trust" off of our currency as well  



One can hope,

that is a sad statement ed.  After all, our founding fathers put that there in the first place and you said they were right.

And if some buhdist or islamic person is offended by it, leave our country and practice your religion elsewhere.    



YOUR country? Remember - America is a land of immigrants

did I say "my country" NO! I said "our country" If they cant respect the religion that founded this country then they shouldnt be here.

[Noah]

what about the fact the election is over and its time to move on!  Al Gore would suck as a president anyway

That's quite convenient. That would mean you could do anything, since after a few years you could say 'oh well, it's time to move on'.
And what do you know about how good a president Al Gore would be ? No one knows, since W stole the presidency.

Im guessing, with the way things are going, that they are going to take "in God we trust" off of our currency as well

Precisely, it is offensive to have that kind of statement on currency. Muslims who have the American citizenship don't believe in the same god as you, yet they are as American as you, so there is no reason why there should be 'in god we trust' instead of 'in Allah we trust'.

After all, our founding fathers put that there in the first place and you said they were right

It was very clear what Ed meant, ie that the founding fathers were right thinking Americans shouldn't be trusted, so don't try to make him say what he didn't say.

shhhhhh! be verry verry quiet.

"your humour is as dry as the paint on my wall".

only those who do not try to follow them and want to lead a life of sin.

Again, you're dismissing people who don't share your beliefs.

[TwinkleFingers]

And what do you know about how good a president Al Gore would be ?

I take it you dont know al gore that well

"your humour is as dry as the paint on my wall".

I thought it was funny very creative using the same phrase as I. Thanks for the correct spelling of humour

Precisely, it is offensive to have that kind of statement on currency. Muslims who have the American citizenship don't believe in the same god as you, yet they are as American as you, so there is no reason why there should be 'in god we trust' instead of 'in Allah we trust'

maybe I'll move to a muslim country and have them take everything down that is muslim as well.

[BoliverAllmon]

Technically speaking Yahweh and Allah are supposedly the same God. the difference being Jews are looking for the Messiah, Christians say Jesus was Him, and Muslims say Jesus was a good prophet, but that Mohammed was the Savior or something. The Koranh (sp?) is laced with references to the Bible.

boliver

[TwinkleFingers]

Then why would noah say it would offend muslims to have In God We Trust on the currency?