Religious Debate Room Part Duex

[TwinkleFingers]

For all you dialup users that are waiting hours for the reply to load

[Noah]

well said wired. I love Dumb and Dumber

You were looking for 'I am' instead of 'I love'.

Wired, if you simply don't understand that even though something has a ridiculously small probability of happening, that event can happen, I wonder how you got your degree.
Besides, your little movie quote has nothing to do with this, because it involves human feelings.
So where does God come from, assuming he exists ?

[TwinkleFingers]

noah, I'll put you in the same boat ehem "ark" as ed.  your insults are meaningless and prove that you need to make fun in order to "feel" right about your thinking. you and ed must be friends.  you both are in or close to London, UK.

So where does God come from, assuming he exists ?

If you havent figured it out yet, let me tell you.  We do not know everything about God.  If we did know everything about Him we would be supreme as Him.  And that will never happen.  It is not important to know where he came from. Let me rephrase that.  He always was. He said He was the alpha and the omega.  The beginning and the end.  Eternal:Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time.  
Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
Seemingly endless; interminable.
Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife
How am I supposed to explain that which I dont understand?  Do you understand eternity? other than the fact of no beginning and no end...
Ed do you wanna talk about the Bible and dinosaurs some more? what do you want to know? go here if you want https://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/dinos.shtml Im just asking atheists or unbelievers(yes ed in Jesus not evolution) to be open minded about the fact of the existance of God.  Look into it more wired has been open minded to look into evolution way more than I and he has disproven the methods used for the theory.

[Noah]

noah, I'll put you in the same boat ehem "ark" as ed.  your insults are meaningless and prove that you need to make fun in order to "feel" right about your thinking. you and ed must be friends.  you both are in or close to London, UK.

Yeah, sure, all atheists in London know each other.

We do not know everything about God.  If we did know everything about Him we would be supreme as Him.

That's quite convenient, isn't it ? That's what you say everytime you can't answer a question in this thread.

Eternal:Being without beginning or end; existing outside of time.  
Continuing without interruption; perpetual.
Forever true or changeless: eternal truths.
Seemingly endless; interminable.
Of or relating to spiritual communion with God, especially in the afterlife

Thanks, but I don't think I'm the one who needs a dictionary here.

Im just asking atheists or unbelievers(yes ed in Jesus not evolution) to be open minded about the fact of the existance of God.  Look into it more wired has been open minded to look into evolution way more than I and he has disproven the methods used for the theory.

Well, I have an open mind, if someone offers credible arguments. But it's certainly not your pathetic attempts that will convince me, actually they only strenghten my beliefs.
And for Bob's sake, Wired hasn't proved anything. It's just that none of us here has a degree in physics (yet), so we don't really have the tools to counter his arguments. But I'm sure if I had time to waste and showed this thread to any teacher/researcher in my department at uni, they would immediately spot the mistake in his 'proofs'.
If carbon dating was so obviously faulty, why would scientist keep using it ? Wired, I urge you to go to any research lab and show them your brilliant work.

[TwinkleFingers]

That's quite convenient, isn't it ? That's what you say everytime you can't answer a question in this thread.

convenient... maybe.  true..... definitely. your asking questions that cant be answered. what else am I supposed to say? I guess nothing from now on.  We do not know everything there is to know nor will we ever.  So convenient or not that is a fact my friend.

Thanks, but I don't think I'm the one who needs a dictionary here.

maybe a bible then and go to a reformed church.

If carbon dating was so obviously faulty, why would scientist keep using it ?

you ever hear of ignorance? pride? just because they are doing it doesnt make it right. cmon now.  if everyone jumps off the bridge etc etc you know.

It's just that none of us here has a degree in physics (yet), so we don't really have the tools to counter his arguments.

nor would you having a physics degree cause obviously he has proven the faults in the dating. also I pointed out the faults in your assumption of probability.  in reality you all are saying something came from nothing.  and I know me saying God always was isnt anything easy to grasp.  I dont understand it like I said before. But I do believe that the (original books of the Bible) are God inspired and faultless. Has ed proven anything faulty in the "original" books of the bible? Does ed speak hebrew/greek?  He doesnt seem to want to answer that question.

[Wired]

If carbon dating was so obviously faulty, why would scientist keep using it ? Wired, I urge you to go to any research lab and show them your brilliant work.

No need -- the argument has been made and never refuted. Same with other dating methods -- the faults have been pointed out, and if they were so blatantly wrong, why would we be debating?

Wired, if you simply don't understand that even though something has a ridiculously small probability of happening, that event can happen, I wonder how you got your degree.

I didn't say understand, I said I found how funny it is someone puts trust in something that has such a minute chance of actually ever have happening. At least with the Bible, we don't rely on a "chance." We have written accounts that has yet to be unproven that requires no chance. God did it. God did it all. There is no uncertainty in that -- only for non-believers.

As I've said before, faith is, "Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence." Logical: "Based on earlier or otherwise known statements, events, or condition"

So, if logical proof is proof that relies on *known* statements, events and conditions, how can we call the belief in Evolution nothing but faith? In Science, there should be no faith. When there is faith, it becomes more of a religion.

And I believe basing the knowledge of our existence on such a small probability is faith.

Besides, your little movie quote has nothing to do with this, because it involves human feelings.

That's my whole point. Our basic human instincts tell us to laugh at something like that, yet people don't laugh (well, some of us do) when we say we just appeared out of thin air as a few pieces of matter that eventually somehow grew into all of existence. That is much more laughable than Lloyd hooking up with that chick.

So where does God come from, assuming he exists ?

If we assume He exists, then we know he existed forever. This point doesn't have to be proven, since it never can be. God is not meant to be comprehended or fully understood. That's why religion is based on faith.

However, the opposite isn't true. If science isn't based on faith, then someone somewhere has to explain how matter formed out of no energy, or if there was energy, how was it formed with no matter?

I have a feeling my arguments here won't make sense to anyone who doesn't believe in God. I'll probably be flamed, but what the heck. I guess the main point I'm trying to say is that no one here is going to win, as I've said many times before.

[thracozaag]

ROCK
CHALK
JAY
HAWK
K
U

[Wired]

ROCK
CHALK
JAY
HAWK
K
U

Big KU Basketball fan? I'm not too into watching sports, but they generally are fun to watch.

[TwinkleFingers]

Big KU Basketball fan? I'm not too into watching sports, but they generally are fun to watch.

I dont see the relevence to this topic.  Is there?

[BoliverAllmon]

ok, I finally have some time on my hands where I can talk so I will answer the so called contradictions in the website that ed sent us a while ago.

1. God gives peace and comfort to His children, but is at a constant war against the enemy.

2. Who was the father of Joseph? Jacob was his father. Heli was a father-figure, mentor, or even a grandfather. The word for son can be used in different ways.

3. Who was at the empty tomb? these verses don't contradict each other. All say mary magdalene, 2 say say the other mary, and the third Salome. Just because the other verses didn't mention each individual person by name doesn't deny the fact that they were there. If I go to a huge piano concerto performance. I will probably remember the pianist, I might remember the conductor, but most assuredly I will not remember the little guys of the orchestra that doesn't deny the fact that they were there, they played in the concerto, and were vital to its performance.

4. Is Jesus equal or less than God? the first verse says that Jesus and God are on the same wave-length. They have the same mindset. The second verse tells that God is more powerful that Jesus.

5. The number of beasts in the ark? Noah was instructed to take 7 extra clean beasts for sacrificing when they got off the ark, but Noah still needed 2 of those clean beasts to reproduce and replenish the earth.

6. How many stalls did Solomon have? Solomon was a wise man and brought riches to his kingdom. The smaller number was at the beginning of his reign, the larger number being towards the end.

7. Is it folly to be wise or not? Solomon says that without wisdom you have nothing. You can't accomplish anything without it, but he also states that with it comes much responsibility and at times sorrow. By the way we are talking about Godly wisdom, the third reference refers to manly wisdom which is fallible.

8. Human vs. ghostly impregnation. The term fruit of my loins is another way of saying son. Many people have adopted children that have none their blood in them, but yet they still call them son/daughter and treat them as if they were. Though Joseph wasn't the biological father of Jesus, he had the responsibility of raising the Saviour of the world.

9. The bat is not a bird. The bible doesn't have the same scientific classification of animals like we do. A bird to them was anything that was flying and looked like other birds.

10. Insects do not have 4 feet. Again, they don't classify like we do. they are just talking about little creeping things.

11. Snails do not melt. Put salt on one, they shrivel up and look as if they are melting away. once, again they don't have the scientific terminology that we do today.

12. Fowls from water or ground? God molded them out of dirt, but they are brought forth to life through water. Without water we cease to exist.

13. The shape of the Earth. Remember at this time people talked about the known world. They didn't have the transportation that we have today to know what was out there.

14. Snakes don't eat dirt. Have you heard the expression when some crashes on a bicycle or something of the sort and they fall face first in the dirt? we call it eating dirt. It is an expression saying that we have dirt all over our face, which snakes do have, because of being so low to the ground.

15. Earth supported? the first reference refers to hanging onto nothing in space, the second refers to the inner makings of the earth like the core, mantle, and tectonic plates.

16. Heaven supported too? Heaven is described as having large pearly gates. Large gates must have large pillars to hold them up.

17. Order of creation. God didn't forget anything. He was pleased with what he created. He had work for Adam to accomplish before he would create Eve. Eve would cause distractions and wouldn't allow him to accomplish naming the animals as fast as possible. God knew that the couple would sin, but it was ok. God created us for loving fellowship with Him. Not to be roboticly in love with Him. If we didn't have a choice we wouldn't know what loving Him and appreciating him really was.

18. Righteous live? Though we are persecuted for righteousness sake and many are killed because of it. ONe day we will reign forever with God in Heaven.

19. Jesus last words? These references don't say that this is the last words that he spoke, These are the last thingS that he spoke. I may remember one part of a finale of a performance you may remember another, but both happened. Each of the gospels are written in a slightly different style and towards a slightly different person.

20. Moved David to anger? God allows all things to happen. It doesn't mean that he personally with His hands does everything.

21. Geneology of Jesus. one gives his mary's geneology the other Joseph's geneology. I already discussed the fatherhood issue earlier.

22. Seeing God or not? Man cannot see God directly with his human eyes, that is why Moses could see only where God had been (backparts). Man can see God through visions and other spiritual endeavors (souls can't die).

23. Cruel or merciful God? I explained this one earlier.

24. Tempts? Again, If God allowed it to happen, in a way he caused it, but his hands do not do the work.

25. Judas died how? the references mention the same thing. just different descriptions of hanging oneself.

26. Ascend to Heaven. Elijah ascended into the second Heaven, the third is where Jesus came from and where we will ultimately reign forever after the rapture. If you want me to clarify this further email me here at boliverallmon@pianomail.net It will just take along time to write it all down here.

27. Peter denial and the crow? One reference says that the cock crowed, it doesn't say how many times, the other reference gives the exact number.

28. who killed Saul. The references all say that Saul did. the last reference doesn't mention who david killed. It just says him.

29. How many beatitudes? Again, just because I can't quote word for word what someone's speech was, doesn't mean that he didn't speak it.

30. Does every man sin? Are you born of God? wouldn't that make you God? We as Christians are adopted into the family and therefore have sinned before.

31. Who purchased the potter's field? who says it is the same field? the field of blood is another way of saying cemetery. Look even the religiuos leaders said they bought it to bury strangers in. Cities are allowed to have more than one cemetery.

32. Who bears guilt? I have to pay the consequences for my sins, but my brothers in Christ are suppose to help me in my time of need by comforting me and helping me find the will of God.  A psychiatrist may diagnose a patient and help them toward the road of recovery, but the patient must go down the road.

33. Don't answer a fool, just to answer a fool, because you can easily end up looking just like the fool. Do come up with constructive criticism which delivers the fool from his own conceit.

34. How many children did Michal have? She had five sons, then was cursed and had no more children. Read the context.

35. How old was Jehoiachim when he began to reign? He was 8 years old when he became king, but because he was too young to rule his council ruled the kingdom until his 18th birthday. After his 18th birthday he reigned for 3 months.

36. did those with paul at his conversion hear a voice? They heard the first words spoken by God to get Paul's attention and cause them to stop completely. After that the words that God spoke were for the ears of Paul only.

37. Where was Jesus 3 days after His baptism? who is to say that John wasn't in the wilderness also?

38. Judging. There is a difference between casting judgement on someone as a form of punishment and judging whether or not something is a good choice or not.

39. Good deeds. I may do something and people see it. That is ok because God gets the glory. If I go out and try to do good deeds just so people see me and I get glorified that is wrong. The difference is the condition of the heart.

40. For or against? I don't see the contradiction here.

41. Just because I mention only one angel doesn't deny the fact that the other one was there also. They recognized only the one angel because he was the one speaking to them.

42. When is the second coming? When the antichrist comes and causes the abomination not a generation will pass until the return of Christ and his reign forever.

43. Solomon's overseers. Again his kingdom grew therefore he had a larger counsel.

44. What was the color of the robe? scarlet and purple are the same.

45. What was give to jesus to drink? the references just refer to a bitter drink that helped numb the pain.

That isn't all of them, but I have to get to class now.

Boliver Allmon

[thracozaag]

I dont see the relevence to this topic.  Is there?

 Basketball is religion in Kansas.

[TwinkleFingers]

thankyou bolliver for answering those questions.  Im sorry to say that the atheists probably wont care in the least though.  It is a sad thing.  Ed never really pointed out major errors in the bible.  all that he pointed out was how different translations can misinterpereted.

[Noah]

Even if the Bible as story is consistent, it doesn't make it plausible. It's just a story.
What I want is explanations for stuff that go against basic scientific laws. People living 900+ years, Noah building his massive ark, rain for 40 days and 40 nights enough to submerge the earth, etc.

[TwinkleFingers]

how about start from the beginning and see if science can tell us how it all started. oh wait science cant tell us that. thats why its called the big bang "theory". evolutionary "theory".  You want to believe in theories, then you believe in man. Man=flawed reasoning.  Bible=consistency, true, not proven otherwise.  
evidence of global flood:Niagara Falls - Because the rim of the falls is wearing back at a known rate every year, geologists recognize that it has only taken about 5,000 years to erode from its original precipice.
The Grand Canyon - Evolutionists believe that the Grand Canyon was formed by the Colorado River (small amount of water) over a long period of time. The problem with this theory is that there is over 900 cubic miles of dirt missing from the end of the river, there is no delta which would have been formed by slow water erosion! Creationists believe that the Gran Canyon was formed as a result of the Flood, (or a large amount of water flowinf over a short period of time).Mississippi River Delta - The delta formed by the Mississippi River is approximately 5000 years old Oldest Living Thing - High in the arid desert of the White Mountains bordering California and Nevada, grows the oldest living thing, a Bristle Cone Pine Tree, which has been dated at 4700 years old. Because of the hardiness of these trees, it is fair to say that these trees will likely go on living for additional thousands of years, barring any catastrophe that would remove them. The question arises logically: Why is it that we can't we find anything older than this tree, or more trees like it? Answer: because of the Flood.
God Created the earth perfect. But when Adam sinned this world began to decay.

Then when the flood came, things really got wrecked. Some Creationists believe that the pre-flood vapor canopy (the firmament in GEN 1:6 ) would filter out radiation, and hold in incoming solar heat making the earth a warmer place to live. This "expanse" seperated the "waters above" from the "waters below" in the Creation week. I believe that the firmament may have collapsed at the time of the flood.

As a result harmful radiation can enter the earth more easily than before, bringing with it all kinds of damaging effects.

The life span of man has been declining since the flood. The average age of man quickly dropped to less than 100 in the 200 years after the flood.

[Wired]

Even if the Bible as story is consistent, it doesn't make it plausible. It's just a story.
What I want is explanations for stuff that go against basic scientific laws. People living 900+ years, Noah building his massive ark, rain for 40 days and 40 nights enough to submerge the earth, etc.

Since when does living 900 years go against scientific laws? https://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/4082.asp

I thought you were someone who believed in chance? In the same way that evolution isn't very probable, certain aspects of the Bible require circumstances to be correct as well. But again, I stress that religion is based on faith, and science is not. I don't find Evolution requiring you to believe that it happened (without full scientific proof) being anything but faith.

[Wired]

Basketball is religion in Kansas.

Amen!

[ahmedito]

I find discusion on this ridiculous. Im am pretty religious, but I thought anyone knows that the bible, of all books is written in a metaphorical style very pouplar in its time and region. You can find books about interpretation and the meaning of certain numbers or events... ask your priest. Its pretty impossible, and downright stupid in some cases to try to give a literal meaning to many of the things that apear in the bible. Enough said about that. In the new testament, JEsus makes it clear that EVERYTHING in the bible boils down to two things:

Love God and his creation.
Love your neighbor (including your enemies)

Now, with the love god thing out of it, Im sure no atheist can deny that these basic principles: love everyone as you would love yourself, and love everything.... will not harm anyne, and are an inmediate solution to many of the worlds problems.... basically. the asis of this religion is an ethic principle. Do no harm to others.
So what if you dont believe in the arc, or that someone lived 900 years. You cant deny the basic goodness in this teaching. Apart from this, I get very irritated about ardent theists defending their religion, but saying trash about others' religions... that is irresponsible, stupid and completely against the principles of a cult of God... so in your veiws, Gandhi is in hell cause he wasnt a christian???

[Wired]

Enough said about that. In the new testament, JEsus makes it clear that EVERYTHING in the bible boils down to two things:

Love God and his creation.
Love your neighbor (including your enemies)

so in your veiws, Gandhi is in hell cause he wasnt a christian???

Well, what do you think after rereading those lines? I personally am not trying to be the judge of anyone, but my beliefs are that the Bible is correct. Jesus says that whoever believes in him will have eternal life. If Gandhi didn't believe in Jesus (which would make him a Christian), I have no reason to think that he is in heaven. However, I know that I am not the final step, and I know that God knows more than I do, which is why I usually don't answer the question, "Did this person go to heaven then?"

The point that we're arguing the Bible's validity over is the fact that if the Bible in its roots is incorrect, the Bible can't be taken seriously. And if the Bible can't be taken seriously, neither can the God of the Bible, since it was written by God through men. That's why it must be correct in its original form.

[eddie92099]

Jesus says that whoever believes in him will have eternal life. If Gandhi didn't believe in Jesus (which would make him a Christian), I have no reason to think that he is in heaven.

What are you talking about?! I believe in Jesus. The people that crucified him clearly believed in him. That he was an eccentric nutter is besides the point, I still believe he existed. See you in heaven ,
Ed

[PianoProfBonsWay]

This is a statement that was read over the PA system at the football game at Roane County High School, Kingston, Tennessee, by school Principal, Jody McLoud. I thought it was worth sharing with the world and hope you will forward it to all your friends. It shows clearly just how far this country has gone in the wrong direction.
 
 

"It has always been the custom at Roane County High School football games, to say a prayer and play the National Anthem, to honor God and Country."

Due to a recent ruling by the Supreme Court, I am told that saying a Prayer is a violation of Federal Case Law. As I understand the law at this time, I can use this public facility to approve of sexual perversion and call it "an alternate lifestyle," and if someone is offended, that's OK.

I can use it to condone sexual promiscuity, by dispensing condoms and calling it, "safe sex." If someone is offended, that's OK.

I can even use this public facility to present the merits of killing an unborn baby as a "viable means of birth control." If someone is offended, no problem.

I can designate a school day as "Earth Day" and involve students in activities to worship religiously and praise the goddess "Mother Earth" and call it "ecology."

I can use literature, videos and presentations in the classroom that depict people with strong, traditional Christian convictions as "simple minded" and "ignorant" and call it "enlightenment."

However, if anyone uses this facility to honor God and to ask Him to bless this event with safety and good sportsmanship, then Federal Case Law is violated.

This appears to be inconsistent at best, and at worst, diabolical. Apparently, we are to be tolerant of everything and anyone, except God and His Commandments.

Nevertheless, as a school principal, I frequently ask staff and students to abide by rules with which they do not necessarily agree. For me to do otherwise would be inconsistent at best, and at worst, hypocritical. I suffer from that affliction enough unintentionally. I certainly do not need to add an intentional transgression.

For this reason, I shall "Render unto Caesar that which is
Caesar's," and refrain from praying at this time.

"However, if you feel inspired to honor, praise and thank God and ask Him, in the name of Jesus, to bless this event, please feel free to do so. As far as I know, that's not against the law----yet."

One by one, the people in the stands bowed their heads, held hands with one another and began to pray.

They prayed in the stands. They prayed in the team huddles. They prayed at the concession stand and they prayed in the Announcer's Box!

The only place they didn't pray was in the Supreme Court of the United States of America - the Seat of "Justice" in the "one nation, under God."

Somehow, Kingston, Tennessee remembered what so many have forgotten. We are given the Freedom OF Religion, not the Freedom FROM Religion. Praise God that His remnant remains!

Celebrate Jesus in 2003!

Jesus said, "If you are ashamed of Me before men, then I will be ashamed of you before My Father."

If you are not ashamed, pass this on, but only if you mean it.

Yes, I do Love God. He is my source of existence and Savior. He keeps me functioning each and every day. Without Him, I will be nothing, but with Him, I can do all things through Christ that strengthens me.

Philippians 4:13

This is the simplest test . . . if you Love God, and are not ashamed of all the marvelous things He has done for you, feel free to pass it on!!!

[xenon]

Very well written!  It sure puts light on the corruption of governments, concerning rights and freedoms.  It is completely true and I've seen it apply before.  I will definately forward it to my friends.

Thanks for the article, Prof

[Wired]

What are you talking about?! I believe in Jesus. The people that crucified him clearly believed in him. That he was an eccentric nutter is besides the point, I still believe he existed. See you in heaven

By believe in him, I meant (as well as he meant when he said it) that you believe that he is indeed the son of God, that through him anything is possible, and that through him your sins are forgiven (As long as you ask for them to be)

-Jon

[Wired]

And also, I reread my previous statement and I am not incorrect in any way. Jesus did say that (in a different language of course, and slightly paraphrased, hence the lack of quotes). I took it out of context because only part of it was relevant to the point I was discussing.

[Wired]

That's a good story. (I should try to combine posts )

[TwinkleFingers]

that is irresponsible, stupid and completely against the principles of a cult of God... so in your veiws, Gandhi is in hell cause he wasnt a christian

why would you use "cult" and "God" in the same sentence?  you dont know what you are talking about.

That's a good story. (I should try to combine posts )

LOL!! use the modify button at top right of message. ;)that story was very enlightening.  I cant believe that the supreme court would do that.  They cant do that. It goes against the constitution of the United States of America!

What are you talking about?! I believe in Jesus. The people that crucified him clearly believed in him. That he was an eccentric nutter is besides the point, I still believe he existed. See you in heaven ,

wired explained it already.  thankyou wired. maybe ed will understand now what we mean when we say "believe" for someone to claim they understand religions so well and to think that believe means to just think he existed on earth tells me so much.

[eddie92099]

By believe in him, I meant (as well as he meant when he said it) that you believe that he is indeed the son of God, that through him anything is possible, and that through him your sins are forgiven (As long as you ask for them to be)

Well you should have written that then shouldn't you?
Ed

[ahmedito]

Bring out the dictionary:

Cult=worship... you worship God, dont you?


In the bible it says that God has other herds (I dont know the word in english for rebańo, her of sheep?) apart from Israel... so I dont think Ghandi went to hell, in this day and age there weren't manuy people as basically good as he was. Any egotistical raving of saying that your religion is the only true path is the basis of many of the troubles that religion has in modern society, and the increasing hatred of many of this worlds religious institutions.

[eddie92099]

maybe ed will understand now what we mean when we say "believe" for someone to claim they understand religions so well and to think that believe means to just think he existed on earth tells me so much.

be·lieve    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (b-lv)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v. tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.  

Thus I was simply complying with the definition of the word "believe". If you do not mean "believe" by the definition provided above, then I suggest you use different phraseology,
Ed

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Jesus Christ said in the N.T. of the Bible, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Light, NO ONE comes to the Father, God except through me."  

[Noah]

You go to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, you'll find plenty of people like that.

[Wired]

Bring out the dictionary:
Cult=worship... you worship God, dont you?

I don't really care about the rest of your post, simply because I'm not in the mood to read a huge paragraph that seems to be deriving off this false information. I did break out the dictionary: https://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cult&r=67.

Which definition is "Cult is equal to worship"?

[eddie92099]

You go to Speaker's Corner in Hyde Park, you'll find plenty of people like that.

And most of them are American too!
Ed

[Wired]

be·lieve    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (b-lv)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v. tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.  

Thus I was simplying complying with the definition of the word "believe". If you do not mean "believe" by the definition provided above, then I suggest you use different phrasiology

Simply? Phraseology? Perhaps you should run spell check too

And we do mean believe. It'd fall more under definition 2. However, if you scroll down and see the "Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary" definition, you'd see this:


believe

\Be*lieve"\, v. t. [imp. & p. p. Believed; p. pr. & vb. n. Believing.] [OE. bileven (with pref. be- for AS. ge-), fr. AS. gel?fan, gel?fan; akin to D. gelooven, OHG. gilouban, G. glauben, OS. gil?bian, Goth. galaubjan, and Goth. liubs dear. SeeLief, a., Leave, n.] To exercise belief in; to credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of, upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by circumstances other than personal knowledge; to regard or accept as true; to place confidence in; to think; to consider; as, to believe a person, a statement, or a doctrine.

Or the next entry (Also from Webster's):

believe


\Be*lieve"\, v. i. 1. To have a firm persuasion, esp. of the truths of religion; to have a persuasion approaching to certainty; to exercise belief or faith.

Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief. --Mark ix. 24.

With the heart man believeth unto righteousness. --Rom. x. 10.

2. To think; to suppose.

I will not believe so meanly of you. --Fielding.

To believe in. (a) To believe that the subject of the thought (if a person or thing) exists, or (if an event) that it has occurred, or will occur; -- as, to believe in the resurrection of the dead. ``She does not believe in Jupiter.'' --J. H. Newman. (b) To believe that the character, abilities, and purposes of a person are worthy of entire confidence; -- especially that his promises are wholly trustworthy. ``Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.'' --John xiv. 1. (c) To believe that the qualities or effects of an action or state are beneficial: as, to believe in sea bathing, or in abstinence from alcoholic beverages.

And there you have it: "To believe in," being defined in the Webster's dictionary explaining exactly what it means, and even gives an example usage from the Bible.

[eddie92099]

Simply? Phraseology? Perhaps you should run spell check too

Forgive me - I was very tired at the time and just sustaining myself on coffee. Do I get originality marks for the phrase "simplying complying" though? I think it's quite inventive. Anyway, I'm off to see the paster now,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

Any egotistical raving of saying that your religion is the only true path is the basis of many of the troubles that religion has in modern society, and the increasing hatred of many of this worlds religious institutions.

I am not saying my religion is the only way.  Im saying Jesus is the only way.

Well you should have written that then shouldn't you?
Ed

well if you did understand religions around the world then you would know what we were talking about in regards to the context of the word believe.

Forgive me - I was very tired at the time and just sustaining myself on coffee. Do I get originality marks for the phrase "simplying complying" though? I think it's quite inventive. Anyway, I'm off to see the paster now,
Ed

A) get some sleep B) coffee is bad for the liver C) no originality marks because a bad speller like me probably at one time wrote those exact words. D)Let me know how your visit with the "pastor" turned out.  Gee... this is turning into a spelling bee contest or something.   New thread maybe? Maybe we should tell the moderator to include a spellchecker with the forum.

[ahmedito]

IS that suposed to be better?

I think that most of peoples disbelief of God is in grand part due to the theist's unwavering point of view of theirs being the one and only path...

When I said Cult=worship, it was in reference to another post. I said "a cult of God".... meaning a worship of God; someone sai: Why do you have to use the word cult?

maybe Im wrong, because in spanish the word cult is also a verb meaning to worship (culto)

[Wired]

I think that most of peoples disbelief of God is in grand part due to the theist's unwavering point of view of theirs being the one and only path...

How is that different than any scientist coming up with a theory on how we got here? How is it different than anyone trying to prove anything? Everyone thinks they're right until proven wrong.

When I said Cult=worship, it was in reference to another post. I said "a cult of God".... meaning a worship of God; someone sai: Why do you have to use the word cult?

Ah, I missed that part. Sorry about that.

maybe Im wrong, because in spanish the word cult is also a verb meaning to worship (culto)

As is the latin word (cultus, if I remember correctly). However, a cult is much different in English (our silly language.... )

[eddie92099]

I am not saying my religion is the only way.  Im saying Jesus is the only way.  

So you are saying your religion is the only way.

well if you did understand religions around the world then you would know what we were talking about in regards to the context of the word believe.  

I know what was meant, I just wanted to comment on the fact that what was meant wasn't what was written.

Let me know how your visit with the "pastor" turned out.

I didn't go to the pastor, I went to the paster. I needed to get something pasted,
Ed

[TwinkleFingers]

I didnt say it, Jesus did. So its not my only way.  Its "THE" only way.  No doubt about it.

I know what was meant, I just wanted to comment on the fact that what was meant wasn't what was written.

oh? It looked like it to me.  If you understood religion then you would understand the way we use that word then wouldnt you.

I didn't go to the pastor, I went to the paster. I needed to get something pasted,
Ed

hopefully the ten commandments to your forehead!

In your last post, you said, and I quote, "I am not saying my religion is the only way". This is clearly a contradiction

Well Jesus said He is the only way.  Jesus is not a religion.  And sorry if I sound like Im contradicting myself.  I guess I was sorta speaking on a denominational level instead of religious.

[eddie92099]

Its "THE" only way.  No doubt about it.

In your last post, you said, and I quote, "I am not saying my religion is the only way". This is clearly a contradiction.

It looked like it to me.

I think that says something about you rather than me!

If you understood religion then you would understand the way we use that word then wouldnt you.

I said that I understood why the word was used. I also said this was an incorrect use of the word.

hopefully the ten commandments to your forehead!

Even by your extremely high standards of wit, that was hysterical. Oh the hilarity,
Ed

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Did you know... Since you are talking about .....

As you walk up the steps to the Capitol Building which houses the
Supreme Court, you can see near the top of the building a row of
the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle
who is facing forward with a full frontal view  ---  it is Moses and
The Ten Commandments!

As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors
have The Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of
each door.

As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see on the wall right above
where the Supreme Court judges sit a display of The Ten
Commandments!

There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings
and Monuments in Washington, D.C.

James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement "We have staked the
whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind
for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the
Ten Commandments of God."

Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said,
"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians not on
religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher
whose salary has been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

Fifty-two of the 55 founders of the Constitution were members of the established orthodox churches in the colonies.

Thomas Jefferson worried about that the Courts would overstep their authority and instead of interpreting the law would begin making law.  
An oligarchy  ---  the rule of few over many.

The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said, "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

How then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for
200 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

Thomas Jefferson was right to worry.....!!

God help us before it is too late!!

[Noah]

Well, thanks for giving examples that all this is completely unacceptable. The world's most powerful country is mixing politics with religion... and proselytism.

Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers

Yeah, and then you could also add 'and send the others to extermination camps' while you're at it.

[TwinkleFingers]

Yeah, and then you could also add 'and send the others to extermination camps' while you're at it.

noah, this doesnt make any sense at all.  are you comparing christianity with nazis? oh my gosh.  you have some serious issues. nuff said.
Pres. Bush is a christian if Im not mistaking.  The thing I dont get is that his wife is pro-choice or pro-abortion if dont know which but both are bad in my book.

Well, thanks for giving examples that all this is completely unacceptable. The world's most powerful country is mixing politics with religion...

that is why it is the worlds most powerful country. And I wouldnt say "mixing" cause we have that little constitution saying of "seperation of church and state".

[BoliverAllmon]

the words seperation of church and state do not occur in the constitution, nor any other political document. The words came from a letter from Jefferson when he was quoting a baptist minister. He said this implying the the country would never cause a country mandated religion to come about.

boliver

[Noah]

noah, this doesnt make any sense at all.  are you comparing christianity with nazis?

Not with nazis in particular, with any form of totalitarian authority. I found  
PianoProfBonsWay's post particularly shocking and discriminating though.

oh my gosh.  you have some serious issues.

I return the compliment to you and most theists in this forum.

Pres. Bush is a christian if Im not mistaking.  The thing I dont get is that his wife is pro-choice or pro-abortion if dont know which but both are bad in my book.

What are you trying to prove ? That the leader of your country is too stupid to realise he contradicts himself ?

And I wouldnt say "mixing" cause we have that little constitution saying of "seperation of church and state".

Which is then not respected.

[Wired]

Not with nazis in particular, with any form of totalitarian authority. I found  
PianoProfBonsWay's post particularly shocking and discriminating though.

Really... it seems like just facts to me (except for the last paragraph, which is simply a question). Do you find facts discriminating?

Which is then not respected.

Well, as Boliver said, separation of church and state isn't in any political document. https://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html

[PianoProfBonsWay]

I was just relating facts of the our nation's past.

The information I am getting President Bush's wife stands the same as her husband concerning these issues not the opposite, and yes they are Christians.  They start each day reading the Bible and in prayer.

Do you know what separation of church and state really means, and how today it has been changed in our thinking?  Our forefathers came to America to have a new nation that didn't have a ONE BELIEF-ISM- CHURCH STATE and everyone had to be connect to that ONE- CHURCH STATE ~ in other words ~ FREEDOM to worship God as one believed.  Today, separation means ~ no GOD IN ANYTHING ~ in my book of knowing GOD IS GOD ~ CREATOR GOD ~ this is dangerous to loose the blessings of GOD with this kind of action  ~ " one Nation under God..." I want his continued blessings, where people are feel accountable to    God for their actions.  

[PianoProfBonsWay]

Last line, take out 'are' haven't had my wake up cup of coffee yet this morning ~ just looked outside and we have our first snow covering ~ beautiful ~ love living in Alaska especially in Whittier Alaska ~ water falls in my backyard with Whittier Glacier, and port in the front of our condo building. Have a nice day  

[Noah]

I was just relating facts of the our nation's past.

Well that's even worse then.

The information I am getting President Bush's wife stands the same as her husband concerning these issues not the opposite, and yes they are Christians.  They start each day reading the Bible and in prayer.

Who cares what brainless W and his wife do every morning ?

Do you know what separation of church and state really means, and how today it has been changed in our thinking?  Our forefathers came to America to have a new nation that didn't have a ONE BELIEF-ISM- CHURCH STATE and everyone had to be connect to that ONE- CHURCH STATE ~ in other words ~ FREEDOM to worship God as one believed.  Today, separation means ~ no GOD IN ANYTHING ~ in my book of knowing GOD IS GOD ~ CREATOR GOD ~ this is dangerous to loose the blessings of GOD with this kind of action  ~ " one Nation under God..." I want his continued blessings, where people are feel accountable to    God for their actions.  

You haven't been blessed with clarity of expression, that's for sure.
I'm not saying you can't believe in your fancy stories if you want to, just that it shouldn't be mixed with politics, for obvious reasons.

[TwinkleFingers]

Who cares what brainless W and his wife do every morning ?

well maybe just because he is our commander in chief of the united states of america.

the words seperation of church and state do not occur in the constitution, nor any other political document. The words came from a letter from Jefferson when he was quoting a baptist minister. He said this implying the the country would never cause a country mandated religion to come about.

i sit corrected