I cant belevie ppl cant put this through their heads

[johnny-boy]

doesn't it say my name is Martha?

look, whatever. the point is that this isn't like a discussion on fox-hunting or abortion, where there are views either side.

you can't dispute things that are FACT. so you are wrong

it is not the fact that you are wrong that I have a problem with. it is the fact that you believe you are right and believe that you can diss other members who have got the right idea, or be sarcastic about it, when I have not even seen you come up with any mathematical proof that it doesn't equal one.

No, I don't see the name Martha in your profile. I guess that was another one of those undisputable facts.

Again, I was attacked with the dissing first. My dissing was only in retaliation.

John

[kelly_kelly]

I don't get it. I honestly state my views and all of a sudden I'm covering something up. It's amazing that I've been initially attacked with the insults and insinuations and I’m the bad guy; the fact is steveie986 started the insults just because I stated opposing views – then a couple other members jumped on the bandwagon  like déjà vu who had no idea what the hell he was talking about.

Kelly, please be more specific, it's not making any sense. I think you want to be accepted into the Steveie986 Idiot Club so bad that it's fogging up you sense of reality. The only way you'll become part of their club Kelly is to turn over your free thoughts and believe whatever they tell you on blind faith.

Here's a suggestion; copy this entire thread, then in a couple years come back and read it - I think you'll be surprised at how differently you interpret this thread.

Best, John

More specific about what? I'm sorry; I'm not good at simplifying things for idiots.
 

doesn't it say my name is Martha?

look, whatever. the point is that this isn't like a discussion on fox-hunting or abortion, where there are views either side.

you can't dispute things that are FACT. so you are wrong

it is not the fact that you are wrong that I have a problem with. it is the fact that you believe you are right and believe that you can diss other members who have got the right idea, or be sarcastic about it, when I have not even seen you come up with any mathematical proof that it doesn't equal one.

Exactly! Thank you, deja vu!

[johnny-boy]

More specific about what? I'm sorry; I'm not good at simplifying things for idiots.
 
Exactly! Thank you, deja vu!

Just face it Kelly. You made a statement about me and now you realize you were wrong - but can't get yourself to admit it. Otherwise you'd explain it.

Be careful about wanted to be accepted so much by your peers. Someday you may be wondering who you really are.

Best, John

[johnny-boy]

One thing we all have in common on this site is our love for piano music. Maybe it's time for some soothing music. Here's a piece composed by yours truly - aka the idiot.

"Remembering Her"
https://www.artistcollaboration.com/~johnny-boy/Remembering%20Her.mp3

Best, John

[quantum]

Totally off topic, but within 9 days this thread has over 200 replys and 1000 reads.  Maybe I  should start at post #1.

[johnny-boy]

Totally off topic, but within 9 days this thread has over 200 replys and 1000 reads.  Maybe I  should start at post #1.

I wouldn't bother Quantum. There's a ton of repetition and senseless name calling.

Best, John

[stevie]

stevie: I cannot believe that you disputed what I was telling you, and then copied and pasted my proof to someone else.

well, i have my own mind, and i didnt necesarily dispute what you said, but what youve said doesnt make sense to someone who doesnt know the mathematical 'laws' governing the rules of decimal infinitives.

the rule is that, if a number is INFINITELY close to another number, by the rules of mathematics, nothing can be added onto something infinite so it 'must' equal the number its infinitely close to.

this is the assumation someone has to bear in mind when multiplying infinitives, rite?

just like .3333recurring is the only mathematical equivelant of the fraction 1/3, its still imperfect to the layman, but mathematical rules mean if something is infinitely close to a number(even if its inexpressible), it IS that number.

these are apparently the mathematical rules, and thats what you didnt explain, and thats why you should why it ISNT SO OBVIOUS to anyone who doesnt know about these 'rules', which you have to admit are pretty advanced, rite?

rite 

[deja vu]

okay, john, I shall now set an example for you:

I was wrong in assuming that my profile would state my name.

There you are. see, it isn't that difficult to admit you are wrong, is it?

Now.... your turn.

[johnny-boy]

okay, john, I shall now set an example for you:

I was wrong in assuming that my profile would state my name.

There you are. see, it isn't that difficult to admit you are wrong, is it?

Now.... your turn.

The proof was in front of you. You didn't have much choice but to come clean.

I haven't seen any proof yet. All I've seen is some mathematical rule - and that's quite different from a fact. Case closed! Now relax.

.999... goes on forever without ever reaching 1 – but its fine with me if you accept a rule that rounds it off to 1. That sounds like a practical rule. I’ll give you that much.

John

[stevie]

.999... goes on forever without ever reaching 1 – but its fine with me if you accept a rule that rounds it off to 1. That sounds like a practical rule. I’ll give you that much.

John

it isnt rounded off, its all about the mathematical concept of infinity, which isnt practical at all, and only exists in theory.

the point is, if a number is 'infinitely close' to something, BY MATHEMATICAL DEFINITION it does equal it.

it doesnt make logical sense at first, and you CAN dispute it all you like, but this is a mathematical law that many many intelligent people 'believe in', so its not silly.
and neither is your logic, it does make more immediate sense to anyone not deeply involved with maths.

[pianistimo]

infinity is real.  it has it's own symbol. ~.  if it wasn't real we could measure the heavens.  how much water is in the ocean.  how many grains of sand on the seashore.  this is proof that we don't know everything and have to round off numbers because we can't grasp the concept of infinity.

[stevie]

infinity is real.  it has it's own symbol. ~.

is this a joke?

the symbol is a mathematical symbol

nothing is known to be infinite, the universe seems that way, but no concrete proof, it has been said to be expanding, right? if so, it cant have been infinite.

[yuc4h]

Alright mathematical geniuses, here it comes.
The proof that 0.999... = 1  (0.999... EQUALS 1)



And since I actually used some time to write it down for you, the people who post in this thread after this and say 0.999 != 1 could at least take their time to question these equations and provide mathematical proof that tells us that 0.999 != 1. Please, no more "0.999 != 1 because I say so" posts, they are just pathetic. There are no rules to 'accept' and it is not a matter of faith. Above, you see a concrete proof. Enjoy.

0.999... does not approach 1
0.999... does not tend to 1
0.999... is 1

.

[steveie986]

I'll post this on behalf of Johnny-Boy: Theories are by nature flawed because they were made up by math professors who are smarter than me so they must be trying to fool me. I must trust my own idiotic "common sense." Those who say 0.999... = 1 do so only because they blindly trust the textbooks and are too insecure to trust their own good sense.

[johnny-boy]

Okay, stalemate.

Best, John

[pianistimo]

even beethoven had a thing for pennies.  take, for instance, 'rage over a lost penny.'

ps  not believing professors could lead to some rage, too. i mean, if i was smart enough and taking one of these high falutin' math classes - i'd just nod my head and repeat .9999999...=1   

secretly, i'd start stealing small things from this professor.  a pencil one day.  a shoe lace another.  pretty soon, he'd see that small things matter.  (just kidding -about the stealing).

[prometheus]

So how small is the difference between 1 and .999~ then?

Quite strange to tell a math professor that 'small things' matter.

[bflatminor24]

I'll post this on behalf of Johnny-Boy: Theories are by nature flawed because they were made up by math professors who are smarter than me so they must be trying to fool me. I must trust my own idiotic "common sense." Those who say 0.999... = 1 do so only because they blindly trust the textbooks and are too insecure to trust their own good sense.

Are you an idiot?

What kind of conspiracy-theorist bullshit is this? It seems you are afraid of math because you do not understand it. You don't need your "own good sense" to learn math, that's just plain silly. You don't use a "gut feeling" for math, you use logic.

As I said before, logic tells us that the difference between 1 and .999bar is .01bar. This implies a number where there are an infinite number of zeroes after the decimal, followed by a one. But if you consider this number logically, it cannot exist. Where does the one lie? It has no defined place. A number without defined digits is not defined, and therefore does not exist. If you can't define a number, it doesn't exist. And for you wise-cracks out there, "infinity" is not a number, it's a concept used to express unlimited growth.

QED.

[pianistimo]

.01bar is important then?

where can we find this little smidgeon?  even if it doesn't APPEAR to exist - it has to - to change everything to 1.

[shoenberg3]

I am going to be blunt and judgmental but say this: the "devout" christians -- stevie986 and pianitismo -- sound like blithering idiots on this thread. Testament to the axiom that religion is an intelligence to some, stupidity for most. (Not word for word)

[pianistimo]

ur resorting to unlogic.

[bflatminor24]

ur resorting to unlogic.

Do you mean illogic? And please, do us the favor, and point out the illogic in his argument.

Well, actually, I'll save you the trouble. His non sequitur was that because people who are religious exhibit counter-intellectualism and tunnel vision that religion itself must entail stupidity. My friend, correlation does not prove causation. Just because someone is stupid AND religious, doesn't mean that religion causes stupidity.

[bflatminor24]

.01bar is important then?

where can we find this little smidgeon?  even if it doesn't APPEAR to exist - it has to - to change everything to 1.  maybe it's a snail dropping.

Oh, and in case I haven't already said this three times, I'll say it again. If you can't define a number, it can't exist. That is one of the tenets of mathematics. And if you think about it, doesn't that make sense? You can't define .01bar because you can't define where the 1 goes. WHERE THE *** DOES IT GO? YOU DON'T KNOW!

.01bar is not a number and therefore there is no difference between .999bar and 1.

[steveie986]

Are you an idiot?

What kind of conspiracy-theorist bullshit is this? It seems you are afraid of math because you do not understand it. You don't need your "own good sense" to learn math, that's just plain silly. You don't use a "gut feeling" for math, you use logic.

As I said before, logic tells us that the difference between 1 and .999bar is .01bar. This implies a number where there are an infinite number of zeroes after the decimal, followed by a one. But if you consider this number logically, it cannot exist. Where does the one lie? It has no defined place. A number without defined digits is not defined, and therefore does not exist. If you can't define a number, it doesn't exist. And for you wise-cracks out there, "infinity" is not a number, it's a concept used to express unlimited growth.

QED.

Haha, please read the entire thread before getting too excited (actually, never mind, it'll make you want to kill yourself). I was not expressing my own opinion; rather, I was stating simply what Johnny-Boy would have said. I agree exactly with your reaction, except I'm not the idiot, but Johnny-Boy, whose breathtaking ignorance I was mocking.

[bflatminor24]

Haha, please read the entire thread before getting too excited (actually, never mind, it'll make you want to kill yourself). I was not expressing my own opinion; rather, I was stating simply what Johnny-Boy would have said. I agree exactly with your reaction, except I'm not the idiot, but Johnny-Boy, whose breathtaking ignorance I was mocking.

Fair enough. And yes, some people's stupidity is so astronomical, it makes me want to comit suicide. No I'm not kidding.

(Glad to know you weren't the culprit Stevie, I always knew Alkan fans had merit) :-)

[shoenberg3]

Haha, please read the entire thread before getting too excited (actually, never mind, it'll make you want to kill yourself). I was not expressing my own opinion; rather, I was stating simply what Johnny-Boy would have said. I agree exactly with your reaction, except I'm not the idiot, but Johnny-Boy, whose breathtaking ignorance I was mocking.

i cancel my statement about stevieie986; i didn't quite catch his cynicsm as i skimmed this thread. but the statement regarding the other person still holds water.

[shoenberg3]

Do you mean illogic? And please, do us the favor, and point out the illogic in his argument.

Well, actually, I'll save you the trouble. His non sequitur was that because people who are religious exhibit counter-intellectualism and tunnel vision that religion itself must entail stupidity. My friend, correlation does not prove causation. Just because someone is stupid AND religious, doesn't mean that religion causes stupidity.

Indeed, i only pointed out the correlation here, not causation.

[steveie986]

I am going to be blunt and judgmental but say this: the "devout" christians -- stevie986 and pianitismo -- sound like blithering idiots on this thread. Testament to the axiom that religion is an intelligence to some, stupidity for most. (Not word for word)

You know what, you foolish godless mathematicians are going to HELLLL. I hate to say this, but God takes heresy very seriously. The kind of blasphemy they teach in school these days is ridiculous. Evolution is sinful enough as it is, but what's more alarming is that worldwide children are being taught such unbiblical mathematical principles. The heresy that 0.999... = 1 is directly related to the idea that Pi is 3.1... IT'S NOT BECAUSE SCRIPTURE CLEARLY SAYS ITS 3. THREE. NOT THREE AND SOMETHING BUT EXACTLY THREE. I mean if youre gonna argue 0.999... = 1 then 0.998... also = 1 and so 3.1... = 3 follows. This all leads to a GREAT HERESY that will get you landed in an afterlife with SATAN.

Repent. Mathematics is work of the devil.

[shoenberg3]

You know what, you foolish godless mathematicians are going to HELLLL. I hate to say this, but God takes heresy very seriously. The kind of blasphemy they teach in school these days is ridiculous. Evolution is sinful enough as it is, but what's more alarming is that worldwide children are being taught such unbiblical mathematical principles. The heresy that 0.999... = 1 is directly related to the idea that Pi is 3.1... IT'S NOT BECAUSE SCRIPTURE CLEARLY SAYS ITS 3. THREE. NOT THREE AND SOMETHING BUT EXACTLY THREE. I mean if youre gonna argue 0.999... = 1 then 0.998... also = 1 and so 3.1... = 3 follows. This all leads to a GREAT HERESY that will get you landed in an afterlife with SATAN.

Repent. Mathematics is work of the devil.

good sheet

[steveie986]

Fair enough. And yes, some people's stupidity is so astronomical, it makes me want to comit suicide. No I'm not kidding.

(Glad to know you weren't the culprit Stevie, I always knew Alkan fans had merit) :-)

Ack, another case of mistaken identity. I'm not Stevie. That's someone rather different. He's the one who likes Alkan and enjoys ejaculating random sexual innuendoes.

[steveie986]

One thing we all have in common on this site is our love for piano music. Maybe it's time for some soothing music. Here's a piece composed by yours truly - aka the idiot.

"Remembering Her"
https://www.artistcollaboration.com/~johnny-boy/Remembering%20Her.mp3

Best, John

Yup, just what I expected. It sounds like it was composed by someone who doesn't know 0 from 1.

[bflatminor24]

That piece right there, yeah, I was listening to it, and I fell asleep. BO-RING. Throw in some development and you'll have something one step above that piano music you hear in really bad drama movies where there is some girl crying on a couch and you hear a 12 year old in the background playing arpeggiated minor chords with added seconds and ninths for a dissonant, woeful effect.

Yeah, try modulating, changing keys, using a deceptive cadence, even a pause to heighten the inflated level of suspense, then you'll have a piece worth listening to (or staying awake for, rather).

[steveie986]

.

[stevie]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

That piece right there, yeah, I was listening to it, and I fell asleep. BO-RING. Throw in some development and you'll have something one step above that piano music you hear in really bad drama movies where there is some girl crying on a couch and you hear a 12 year old in the background playing arpeggiated minor chords with added seconds and ninths for a dissonant, woeful effect.

Yeah, try modulating, changing keys, using a deceptive cadence, even a pause to heighten the inflated level of suspense, then you'll have a piece worth listening to (or staying awake for, rather).

[steveie986]

The principle being demonstrated here is that folks who think 0.999... isn't 1 can't compose.

[bflatminor24]

Whoa, two Stevies...which one is which? IDENTIFY YOURSELVES AT ONCE!

-Max

[steveie986]

I'm the real one. The one without the e is the counterfeit.

[johnny-boy]

Haha, please read the entire thread before getting too excited (actually, never mind, it'll make you want to kill yourself). I was not expressing my own opinion; rather, I was stating simply what Johnny-Boy would have said. I agree exactly with your reaction, except I'm not the idiot, but Johnny-Boy, whose breathtaking ignorance I was mocking. -steveie986

No that's not at all what I said or what I would have said. I stated from the beginning that .999... isn't "1" and never will be “1”.  And it isn't!

In the future please don't speak for me steveie986; you have enough trouble making yourself understood with all your idiotic thinking.

But here is one of your quotes to show people a little about your character:

I'm too intelligent to serve in the military. I support our men and women in uniform, but my superior mind would be wasted in the military. I prefer to spend my time flaming math idiots on the Internets and earning degrees and playing the piano and writing poetry and making money. If I were dumber I'd definitely fight for my country, but when there's other guys doing it for you, why do you need to? It's all about comparative advantages and performing at your maximum utility. - steveie986

John

[stevie]

Whoa, two Stevies...which one is which? IDENTIFY YOURSELVES AT ONCE!

-Max

Date Registered:  November 27, 2005, 02:03:06 AM

he registered way after me, and obviously browsed the forums before choosing his annoyingly similar name to mine

for CG?

[bflatminor24]

Haha, please read the entire thread before getting too excited (actually, never mind, it'll make you want to kill yourself). I was not expressing my own opinion; rather, I was stating simply what Johnny-Boy would have said. I agree exactly with your reaction, except I'm not the idiot, but Johnny-Boy, whose breathtaking ignorance I was mocking. -steveie986

No that's not at all what I said or what I would have said. I stated from the beginning that .999... isn't "1" and never will be “1”.  And it isn't!

In the future please don't speak for me steveie986; you have enough trouble making yourself understood with all your idiotic thinking.

But here is one of your quotes to show people a little about your character:

I'm too intelligent to serve in the military. I support our men and women in uniform, but my superior mind would be wasted in the military. I prefer to spend my time flaming math idiots on the Internets and earning degrees and playing the piano and writing poetry and making money. If I were dumber I'd definitely fight for my country, but when there's other guys doing it for you, why do you need to? It's all about comparative advantages and performing at your maximum utility. - steveie986

John

John, how does that kind of retort exonerate yourself? You're still on trial for your "idiotic thinking" regarding .999bar and 1. After extensive proofs, you're still not convinced? Do me a favor: show me how my line of logic is flawed, or point out an error in my reasoning to show people you're at least making a factual argument instead of a spurious one.

For those of you who haven't read my earlier posts, I showed that if Johnny-Boy is right, there must be a difference between .999bar and 1. Then I showed how this difference cannot exist (called a reverse-proof). The difference would have to be .01bar, and since this number is undefined (look it up - no number can follow a repeating sequence (i.e. .01bar, the one following after an infinite number of zeroes). .01 is not a number, and therefore there is no difference. Thus .999bar must equal one.

I used this reverse proof in case skeptics didn't buy the more mainstream proof shown below:

x = .999bar
10x = 9.999bar
10x – x = 9x = 9
x = 1

This works too, just imagine doing 9.999 - .999 and you get 9, which is 9x, so x must be 1.

Happy?

-Max

[johnny-boy]

I'm not going to reply to the rude remarks made about my music. If they were just honest critiques it would have been one thing, but the remarks were just plain nasty.

It seems so many members here are more interested in dissing people than for their love of music - which is very discouraging.

John

[johnny-boy]

John, how does that kind of retort exonerate yourself? You're still on trial for your "idiotic thinking" regarding .999bar and 1. After extensive proofs, you're still not convinced? Do me a favor: show me how my line of logic is flawed, or point out an error in my reasoning to show people you're at least making a factual argument instead of a spurious one.

For those of you who haven't read my earlier posts, I showed that if Johnny-Boy is right, there must be a difference between .999bar and 1. Then I showed how this difference cannot exist (called a reverse-proof). The difference would have to be .01bar, and since this number is undefined (look it up - no number can follow a repeating sequence (i.e. .01bar, the one following after an infinite number of zeroes). .01 is not a number, and therefore there is no difference. Thus .999bar must equal one.

I used this reverse proof in case skeptics didn't buy the more mainstream proof shown below:

x = .999bar
10x = 9.999bar
10x – x = 9x = 9
x = 1

This works too, just imagine doing 9.999 - .999 and you get 9, which is 9x, so x must be 1.

Happy?

-Max

On trial? Baloney!

9.999 - .999 = 9  (I agree). And .999 is still .999 and not 1.

Case clossed.

[bflatminor24]

On trial? Baloney!

9.999 - .999 = 9  (I agree). And .999 is still .999 and not 1.

Case clossed.

Not quite. You forgot 9 = 9x. Now divide by 9, and you get x = 1. Also, I like how you completely forgot about my original reverse-proof and skipped right to the mainstream one. You know, the mainstream proof that you can find in math textbooks, websites, encyclopedias, and places like MIT. But those don't count right?

How about showing me where exactly the false logic or error lies in BOTH of the proofs I showed you. When you find an actual flaw in logic AND give me a proof of your own showing me how 1 does not equal .999bar, then you can say case closed, and even then, people will still think you're kind of a putz.

-Max

[johnny-boy]

So we disagree, big deal. You’re never going to convince me that an apple is an orange either.

Stalemate.

[jas]

You can always tell you've got a good argument going on when people are calling each other stupid and slating their music. You'll be correcting each others' spelling and grammar soon...

Good times, guys. Spread the love!


Although...

I'm not going to reply to the rude remarks made about my music. If they were just honest critiques it would have been one thing, but the remarks were just plain nasty.

You're right there. That was nasty.

[deja vu]

I'm not going to reply to the rude remarks made about my music. If they were just honest critiques it would have been one thing, but the remarks were just plain nasty.

Hmn... seems like you did reply.

John,,, if you are going to agree that 9.999... - 0.999... = 9, then you also have to agree that 0.999... equals 1, because of the obvious outcome of the sum above.

I'm not entirely sure why you haven't been blocked yet, seeing as you have p*ssed so many people off. There is really nothing left to say: we have given you many different proofs that 0.999... = 1 (which you have conveniantly chosen to ignore - you haven't even explained why you think they might be wrong) and yet you refuse to recognise them.

[prometheus]

Stalemate.

Actually, you lose.

[lostinidlewonder]

Distance is an illusion. We simply half the distance we are from an object continuously to infinity, so in reality we are not moving at all.

[yuc4h]

Oh, and in case I haven't already said this three times, I'll say it again. If you can't define a number, it can't exist. That is one of the tenets of mathematics. And if you think about it, doesn't that make sense? You can't define .01bar because you can't define where the 1 goes. WHERE THE *** DOES IT GO? YOU DON'T KNOW!

You say that only because you know obviously nothing about mathematics. NUMBERS THAT CONTAIN INFINITE AMOUT OF RECURRING DIGITS ARE CALLED HYPERREAL NUMBERS. The symbol is *R. They extend the functionality of Real numbers, just like complex numbers. Don't post if you don't have a clue about what we are talking about.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperreal_numbers

You can always tell you've got a good argument going on when people are calling each other stupid and slating their music. You'll be correcting each others' spelling and grammar soon...

Nope, there is no need, since every I mean EVERY human with intelligence quotient > 42 can see from the material I provide in this post that 0.999... = 1. No need to continue this thread.

my proof:


And, I just happened to found more perfect and mathematical proof than mine
https://home.comcast.net/~integral50/Math/proof2a.pdf
Argue this you tards.

I'm not going to be nice anymore since people arguing that 0,999... can't be defined or that 0,999 != 1 or tends to 1 or approaches 1 or anything. 0,999... EXACTLY EQUALS to 1

Here is the mathematical law that governs this case: The Nested Interval Theorem, which states that the infinite intersection of a set of nested intervals contains a single real number. Are you happy now?

oh, I found another thread at Physics forums
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=5513
Kill this thread. It is finished. You lost.




.

[pianistimo]

nested interval theorum?  this is probably way above me (which i never said i was into physics) but i'm curious if i can approach it.  u know - walk a bit towards it.  admire it.  walk around it. 

basically as my mind wraps around it - u are saying everything in the universe is placed in time and space (not like a line in math - where u have negative numbers to infinity, zero, and positive numbers to infinity).  ok.  i can accept that now.  see, u just have to explain it to the idiots nicely.  otherwise the idiots will remain idiots and be convinced they are right.

one encompasses the whole nesting interval of a complete space until the next space is encountered, right?  it's like atoms nesting.  so whether u are talking .1111 or .3333 or .999 u are still in this particular space of 1.  is that what u mean?

btw, whilst googling 'nested interval theorum' i came across 'big rule of thumb theorum,'  too.  can u explain both?  they said something like 'no body' = dead