God poll

[cmg]

I'm just posting to make this the 100th incredible post in this incredible thread!!

[thalbergmad]

ok.  first we'll start with eyewitness accounts of both jews and romans (which, btw, were hostile sources at the time).
www.leaderu.com/everystudent/easter/articles/josh2.html
#1 broken roman seal - no one dared back then to break the seal
#2 empty tomb - paul maier says 'if all the evidence is weighed carefully and fairly, it is indeed justifiable, according to the canons of historical research, to conclude that the sepulcher of joseph of arimathea, in which Jesus was buried, was actually empty (three days later) - and no shred of evidence has yet been discovered in literary sources, epigraphy, or archeology that would disprove this statement.'
#3 1 1/2 to 2 TON stone removed from tomb.
#4 roman guard goes AWOL - something they would be stripped of their clothing for - and burned by using the clothing as a source for the flames.
#5 grave clothes of Jesus found.
#6 Jesus appearance confirmed by over 500 eyewitnesses - after the ressurrection!  (not even mentioning the people that were resurrected from the dead also - at the same time!)

According to your book of myths.

[thalbergmad]

now, if you are interested in extra biblical books - lets start with the book of nicodemus...who is mentioned as coming to help bury the body of Jesus with the mixture of myrrh and aloes (100 lbs worth).

Gospel of Nicodemus (Part I First Greek Form)
starts out mentioning exact words of ananias (who was translating this into greek) and then he translates the words of nicodemus into greek.  why?  ananias had been the father-in-law of caiaphuas, who was high priest the year Jesus was  murdered.  caiaphas was the one who had advised the jews that it was expedient for one man to die on behalf of the people.  ananias was the one who had sent Jesus bound to Caiaphas in john 18:24.

www.newadvent.org/fathers/08071a.htm

now, he is translating the words of nicodemus.  he is a christian convert?  yes!  he was transformed and hoped that God would forgive his sin by translating nicodemus's words and confirming the account of the death and ressurrection of Jesus.  that meant - he was a HOSTILE witness at first - and turned to a believer.  this can be confirmed in acts 9:10 where ananias is now called a 'disciple' and given a vision about laying hands upon saul that he might regain his sight.

so was the roman centurion - who -witnessing how Jesus died - said 'this truly WAs the Son of God.

This says nothing.

The reason someone came to bury him was because he was dead.

The Roman Centurion saw jesus die according to the Bible.

The rest of your post is garbled panic.

[thalbergmad]

now, in josephus 'antiquities of the jews XV we have mention of the things that were happening during the reigns of pilate and whomever (and the names and dates and places match).
www.ccel.org/j/josephus/works/ant-15.htm

but, if you haven't got time to read all that - i'd start with justin martyr (d 163) who mentions the 17th year of tiberius as being august 32 AD to august 33 AD.  this is in 'apologia' PL vi, 383 in sequence.

then tertullian (d 222) 'against the jews,' PL II, col. 614
records that the sun stopped shining in the middle of the day at the crucifixion of Christ.  this is noted in tertullian's 'apologeticum' Bk. 1, ch 21.

also, 'He wrought many wonders that were appropriate to such a death.  Thus, at the time when the sun was in the middle of its orbit, the day was suddenly deprived of its brightness so that those who did not know that this prodigy had been foretold for the death of Christ did not understand the reason for it.  Later they denied that it had happened, but you can find (the record of) this worldwide event stored in your archives.'

a corroborating text comes from a secular historian known as Phlegon who was a freed slave of Hadrian the emperor (117-138 AD) ' in the fourth year of the 202nd olympiad there was an eclipse of the sun which was so remarkable that nothing comparable had ever been seen before.  at the sixth hour of the day (noon), the darkness was such that one could see the stars' (fragmenta historicum graecorum, didot.  paris 1849, vol iii, phlegon, bk 13, ch 14, as cited in js daly's 'the controversy concerning the dates of the birth and death of JEsus Christ')

NB:  this phenomenon would not have been an eclipse caused by the moon, since darkness only occurs over specific areas of the earth in a total eclipse, and does not last very long in any case.  the gospels record that the sun stopped shining for three hours.

Died 222AD, Died163AD, does that not tell you something.

People just repeating the myths that they heard. NOT first hand accounts.

[thalbergmad]

origen (d 254) in 'contra celsus,' bk 2, n 33, corroborates phelgon's testimony:

'the eclipse which took place at the time of tiberius, during whose reign Christ was crucified, and the GREAT earthquakes of the same time, were noted by phlegon in his books 13 and 24.'

notice the word 'great' - exactly the words of the bible!

Died 254.

wow, the word great was used in 2 books

[thalbergmad]

john malalas (d 578) 'chronographia' PGxcvii, col 351 in sequence:

'in the year 18 of the reign of tiberiums in the 7th month, our Lord Jesus Christ was betrayed by Judas his disciple.  on the 23rd of March, the third day of the moon, the fifth day of the week at the fifth hour of the night (11 pm) He was led before caiphas...on the following day he was taken to pilate...He was crucified on the fourteenth day of the moon..at that time the sun was bereft of its light and darkness covered the whole earth.'

paul the deacon
miscellaneous history, PL xcv, col 858-864
'in the twelfth year of the reign of tiberius, at fidenae, an amphitheater collapsed burying 20,000 people.  seven years later, at the time when our Lord was sufferring his Passion, there was an immense earthquake.  rocks were split in the mountains.  on the same day, the sun was darkened from the 6th to the 9th hour.  darkness covered the whole of the earth and the stars appeared.'

julias africanus
extant fragments, PGx, col 90

' in the year ... that is 33 of Christ, namely the first year of the 203rd olympiad, at the moment when Christ suffered his Passion horrific darkness covered the world and rocks were broken by an earthquake.'

Died 578AD.

Another contemporary account.

[thalbergmad]

now, what i am attempting to do is look at the worldwide earthquake index and confirm two large earthquakes within 3 1/2 days of each other in the region and possibly affecting the ocean (causing tsunamis). 

it is interesting that just in 2006 - we've had a series of major earthquakes all over the world.  i guess that God repeats himself with patterns.  there is a great earthquake mentioned in revelations before Jesus Christ appears the second time.

There are earthquakes all over the world every year, not just this one.

So what if there was one at Jesus's death.

It proves nothing.

[thalbergmad]

I am happy to advise that i will be leaving this forum at the end of the year.

It will be a great joy to avoid the pages of senseless religious ramblings.

I am finding it difficult to ignore the consistent religious posts (which is partly my fault), so the sensible thing to do would be to just leave, which is exactly what i will do. It has gotten to the stage where almost the entire Bible has been posted here and i am just fed up with it.

I have a huge pile of sheet music to scan which i have promised to my friends on pianophilia, which i have neglected due to the time i have wasted on here.

Pianistimo - I will be happy never to hear from you again.

Thal

[prometheus]

If the Gospel of Judas was written by Judas, i fail to see how it can be a forgery.

Hahaha.l

[pianistimo]

i didn't say the manuscript was a forgery, i said judas well could have written it - but it would have had to be fairly quickly as it was a 'confession' of sorts - saying that Jesus 'made him' do it.  if it were written quickly - he would have written in before he went and killed himself.  as far as i understand, the book of judas (if written by judas) was written by a man who learned the gospel and then betrayed Christ for thirty pieces of silver.  his character wouldn't change overnight.  otherwise - he would have repented and turned from his ways.  he just didn't want to face the fact that he had not killed God.  this is indicative of his spirit.  like mentioned in jude - they types that pretend faith - but are evil in their hearts and intent.  if judas intent was love - he would never have betrayed jesus.  not even if told to do so.  that is my feeling.  i could be wrong - because there is a scripture that says Christ told him 'go and do what you must do quickly...' or something to that effect.  but, i do not understand why the verse 'it would have been better for this man if he had not been born.'  why would Christ MAKE anyone betray him?  he was capable of letting the romans find him on their own.  just to make his location known.  the book of judas could be real - but judas was not a true disciple of jesus to betray him to death.

now, if you want first hand evidence for Jesus ressurrection - try the letter written from Pontias Pilate (the epistle of pontius pilate) to Tiberius Caesar.  it is located in the british museum - and is a historical letter from which we can glean many things.  and, btw, is ANOTHER source that is unbiased - as he was a hostile witness at the first.  the letter ends with a date 'the 5th calends of april' - so this would indicate that he was killed before april 5 possibly in the year 33 AD.  the geological and astronomical data indicates exactly this.

now, in this letter written by pilate - 'the historical letter - the report of pontias pilate, governor of judea' which was sent to tiberias caesar in rome - records the full observance of a blood red moon. 

'now when He was crucified, darkness came of all the world...and the moon, which was like blood, did not shine all night long, although it was at full.'  as this particular author says 'the only way for peter and other to have observed a full blood lunar eclipse was for a polar shift to have occurred (thus causing huge earthquakes all over the world). 

now, i have no idea if this is true or not (about the pole shift) - but this person makes a case that if there was a pole shift - the sun would have actually set at 12 noon - been dark until 3 (when he died) and then - appeared again for a few hours (at burial time) and then been dark again at night.  the polar shift would have affected the darkness during the day - but not the counting of the 3 days and 3 nights - as the night resumed again at the proper time. 

https://thecomingepiphany.com/datecrucifixion.htm

now - also it says that pilate - in his letter - says 'and amid the terror the dead appeared, rising again...(PILATE says this -- he is admitting the biblical verse of the people who came out of their tombs in Matt. 27:50-54 -- and he is now NOT a hostile witness or covering up what he doesn't want people to know.  he is agreeing about what happened.  what caused this change in pilate?)

and there were many whom i myself saw appearing in the body, and they made lamentation...the terror of the earthquake continued from the sixth hour to the 9th hour...'

now, also - tiberius was founded in AD 19 by King Herod on the western shore of Lake Galilee (Kinneret).  Herod's stadium , exposed in excavations for the first time recently, was damaged by boulder-bearing flash floods and by an earthquake.   geological society of america

[pianistimo]

another interesting thing which i am now researching - is that the effects of this possible 'polar shift' or just plain - huge earthquake - had effects around the entire globe.  did you know that the yellow river in china broke it's dikes and changed course?  also, parts of the great wall were broken. 

now, during Christ's time (and death) the eastern Han dynasty was at the fore (AD 25-220).  i have often wondered what Christ meant when he said he went to preach to the 'spirits in prison' between his ressurrection and ascension to God? or something like that.  did He mean that He actually witnessed around the world - on the other side? 

it is interesting, because in 1995 - at jiunudun or terrace of nine women in suburbian xuzhou - archeologists found 10 stone bas-reliefs carved on stone tablets from two tombs.  now it was thought that this Han king was actually a jewish convert (Christian) and knew about the bible stories and about Christ.  the reason it is believed is that one of the bas-reliefs depicts:

'a woman and man sitting around what looks like a manger, with allegedly 'the three wise men' approaching from the left side, holding gifts, the shepherd following them , and the assassins queued up, kneeling on the right.'

the other bas-reliefs are variously biblical also.  one is an account of genesis.  another of the garden of eden - all excavated from an aristocrats tomb in the Han dynasty!

www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-12/22/content_505587.htm 

[cmg]

I am happy to advise that i will be leaving this forum at the end of the year.

It will be a great joy to avoid the pages of senseless religious ramblings.

I am finding it difficult to ignore the consistent religious posts (which is partly my fault)

Thal

Well, you'll be missed, but to be fair to you, it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid the consistent religious posts.  I think I'm going back to the American Orchid Society Forum.  Dry as dust there, but sometimes they have an occasional thread on "orchid porn" shots that you have to hang out for and be vigilant since the moderators delete 'em QUICK. 

But absolutely NO religion there.  Period.

I think pianistimo should try out my new thread on nasal hair tweezing just to se if she can avoid any discussion of religion.  Any bets?

[thalbergmad]

Well, you'll be missed, but to be fair to you, it is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid the consistent religious posts.  I think I'm going back to the American Orchid Society Forum.  Dry as dust there, but sometimes they have an occasional thread on "orchid porn" shots that you have to hang out for and be vigilant since the moderators delete 'em QUICK. 

But absolutely NO religion there.  Period.

I think pianistimo should try out my new thread on nasal hair tweezing just to se if she can avoid any discussion of religion.  Any bets?

I can't wait to see the back of her.

[thalbergmad]

now, if you want first hand evidence for Jesus ressurrection - try the letter written from Pontias Pilate (the epistle of pontius pilate) to Tiberius Caesar.  it is located in the british museum - and is a historical letter from which we can glean many things.  and, btw, is ANOTHER source that is unbiased - as he was a hostile witness at the first.  the letter ends with a date 'the 5th calends of april' - so this would indicate that he was killed before april 5 possibly in the year 33 AD.  the geological and astronomical data indicates exactly this.

now, in this letter written by pilate - 'the historical letter - the report of pontias pilate, governor of judea' which was sent to tiberias caesar in rome - records the full observance of a blood red moon. 

'now when He was crucified, darkness came of all the world...and the moon, which was like blood, did not shine all night long, although it was at full.'  as this particular author says 'the only way for peter and other to have observed a full blood lunar eclipse was for a polar shift to have occurred (thus causing huge earthquakes all over the world). 

https://stupidreligion.com/?p=53

Not even in the British Library.

Do not hang your faith on this letter. Its authenticety is only accepted by brain dead tambourine bangers.

More myth, but undoubted FRAUD.

Not long to go until i see the last of your idiotic posts

[pianistimo]

ok.  one of the earliest records BESIDES PILATE's OWN LETTERS (which you cannot say is fraud because the romans kept very good records) is the history in the arcanis vestris about what happened at the death of Christ. 

you can find it here:
www.christianhospitality.org/pages_20items/Ap1.htm

now - for an interesting divergence (after finding you A LOT of historical information outside the bible, thal) is that the gospel itself was changed very shortly after the death and ressurrection and then subsequent persecution of the early christians.

if you remember the disciples pricilla and aquilla - well, they were forced to leave their places and their gentile converts/brethren and 'father' simon magus - took over their gentile church.  this was the start of a false religion and how it spread into christianity.  there was a true gospel and then a forgery.

[thalbergmad]

ok.  one of the earliest records BESIDES PILATE's OWN LETTERS (which you cannot say is fraud because the romans kept very good records) is the history in the arcanis vestris about what happened at the death of Christ. 

you can find it here:
www.christianhospitality.org/pages_20.items/Apl.htm

now - for an interesting divergence (after finding you A LOT of historical information outside the bible, thal) is that the gospel itself was changed very shortly after the death and ressurrection and then subsequent persecution of the early christians.

if you remember the disciples pricilla and aquilla - well, they were forced to leave their places and their gentile converts/brethren and 'father' simon magus - took over their gentile church.  this was the start of a false religion and how it spread into christianity.  there was a true gospel and then a forgery.

1. The link does not work
2. You have provided me with nothing but forgeries and stories written centuries after the non event. The authenticity of Pilates letters are not proven.
3. Indeed there probably was a true Gospel and it got changed later to give the picture the Church wanted people to see. What we have left in the bible is indeed a fraud.
4. I am counting down the hours and look forward to the last post i will ever see of your deluded rubbish.

[pianistimo]

the link works now.

[thalbergmad]

Thanks, that is the funniest thing i have read in ages.

Some people are actually worse than you.

Only a few days left.

[pianistimo]

i fail to see how this is funny.  obviously in science there must be things that repeat themselves.  at the time of christ's death and ressurrection - there was a huge event where the sun and moon were darkened.  what caused this 'physically speaking.'  will it happen again (as mentioned in revelations) where the sun and moon become dark.  it seems a repeat of something God has set in motion - and converges at the same time as 'great earthquakes' - volcanoes (ash) that cover the sun and moon when they do shine - and also wild weather patterns.

this is consistent from what i read about great shifts of the poles.  now - incrementally - it seems we've already had it happening for some time - but attributed it all to global warming.  what if it is not ONLY global warming.  what if a pole shift is actually happening now and considerably speeding as evidenced by closer and closer major earthquakes and very strange weather patterns.

in pennsylvania we have another unusually hot day today for december.  might get a little colder later on - if we get the weather patterns coming from denver - which just got dumped on again majorly.  very strange weather here, though.

[thalbergmad]

If you believed in that rubbish, you would not be looking for scientific explanation. You could just attribute what happened to the will of GOD.

By the way, keep your pathetic mindless ramblings out of my personal mailbox. I have asked you this before. I will not enter into any contact with you outside of these forum boards and even that will cease at the end of the year.

Thal

[pianistimo]

i did not send you any messages of a personal nature recently that i know of.  last week or the week before i sent one about the mt blanc trip and i mentioned that ice flows show that the area was covered by a giant glacier at one point that moved SOUTH to NORTH.  hmmm.

but, you can be an ostrich and stick you head in the sand.  i don't care.  scientists are supposed to enjoy discussing facts.  but, they can't prove some theories anymore because they are blown out of the water.

glaciers will prove what is under them as they melt.  good luck on your own scientific endeavors by keeping the bible out of any sort of comparison.  it will keep you in untruth about what really happened long ago and what will happen in the future, imo.

[thalbergmad]

i did not send you any messages of a personal nature recently that i know of.  last week or the week before i sent one about the mt blanc trip and i mentioned that ice flows show that the area was covered by a giant glacier at one point that moved SOUTH to NORTH.  hmmm.

but, you can be an ostrich and stick you head in the sand.  i don't care.  scientists are supposed to enjoy discussing facts.  but, they can't prove some theories anymore because they are blown out of the water.

glaciers will prove what is under them as they melt.  good luck on your own scientific endeavors by keeping the bible out of any sort of comparison.  it will keep you in untruth about what really happened long ago and what will happen in the future, imo.

I did not say they were of a personal nature. I am asking you again not to put any of your senseless ramblings in my personal mailbox. I have asked you this before, but with most things it has not yet sunk into your brain. I will not enter into any correspondence with you outside of these boards.

If my head is in the sand, yours is in the clouds.

"glaciers will prove what is under them as they melt". I can only laugh at that. You must have a degree in the bleeding obvious.

Thal

[pianistimo]

the only thing that is bleeding obvious is that you won't discuss things with anyone who has a different point of view because it 'upsets' you.  well, shifer me timbers - you're calling me a nutcase and needing medication wasn't exactly a nice thing to keep saying.  i think ur  like a tire iron.  in need of melding.

[opus10no2]

Satan would pwn god in any fight.

god has a more 'queer eye' vibe about him, Satan is like way more hardcore.

[pianistimo]

anyone who could withstand a crucifixion without screaming the whole time was obviously not make of fluff.  the fact that he had any words at the end - was quite amazing.  that he was thinking of his mother, of the world, and also of His father in heaven to 'forgive them...' if He endured so much pain for us - it isn't much to believe with a 'mustard seed' of faith.

[opus10no2]

jesus was probably gay

[pianistimo]

kissing someone on the cheek is different than getting down.  i mean -back then - it was a sign of friendship and greeting.  it still is - in the middle east.  if Jesus was gay - he would be breaking his own statute about a man not sleeping with a man like with a woman.  He would break his own word.  he was no more gay than paul was after conversion.  there are certain things that the disciple paul gave up -for Christ and for his eternal crown.

[opus10no2]

I fail to see the point in believing in mythological stories constructed by random old dudes.

I have however come to realize that theistic belief is not a bad thing in itself, however I would say that organised religion has been, and will remain to be dangerous.

It's like rape - its natural, but it's a pain in the ass.

[pianistimo]

to compare organized religion to rape is not necessary.  i believe that door to door - or soliciting isn't what Jesus did.  he met people where they were at.  but, didn't come uninvited necessarily.  i mean, he did choose his disciples - but then he spent time with them teaching them what the 'gospel of the kingdom of God' was.  roman gods always needed appeasement.  they needed sexual orgies to keep the gods satisified.  prostution and the later killing of sacrificial babies was a system that tied into the babylonian system of worshipping merodach or (as he used to be called) nimrod.  nimrod tried to assume god-like stature as many of the caesars seemed to want to do.  they were appeased by gross immorality and beastiality, rape, murder, whatever.  and, whatever they said - was done to a person or asked of the person that was a SLAVE.

now, being a willing slave of Christ is much different.  you are not giving up any freedoms whatsoever.  sin is not a freedom.  it is a death sentence.  it leads to death now.  and later.  i mean, if a man rapes a woman or another man - they are guilty under the law of the land, and the law of God later.  two judgements.  one they may get away with - but other most certainly not.  i think God has a camcorder of sorts.  i don't think anyone actually 'gets away' with anything in this life.  otherwise there would be no sense to living.  justice demands a lawgiver.  and God is law giving and just.

** about the first part - jesus is mentioned as being expected on the sabbath to come and speak or preach the gospel.  whoever came would hear him.  whoever didn't - wouldn't.  so - this was in no way coercion.  he also healed every kind of disease (probably including std's) and every kind of sickness among the people.  now, there is also a sickness of the mind.  one which cannot see the value of humans beyond what they can get.  but, with the 'Spirit of God' which Christ gave himself for - to give us the Holy Spirit - we can see past our inner desires to fulfill things for ourselves - to thinking of what others might want or desire.  and, to try to make headway into the realm of spiritual qualities in life. 

i believe that there is NOTHING that Christ cannot heal.  this includes emotional abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse.  to be able to think correctly and rightly means that after the healing takes place - that one is taught what God thinks about the matter.  i mean, if everyone truly believed that our bodies are a 'temple' for the Holy Spirit - then we wouldn't do anything to make the temple unclean or unholy.  not for ourselves and not for anyone else.  to desecrate someone else's rather than being sanctified by marriage (by asking the woman's permission) is something not really understood today as a 'crime.'  but, to God - every woman and man is holy in his sight.  if younger men and women saw their value to God - they wouldn't waste their bodies.

[opus10no2]

There are many organized religions.

What does this tell us?

Organized religions are cultural interpretations and elaborate mythologies which are based and play upon many people's natural tendency to have some sort of belief in theism.

Organized religion ironically has nothing at all to do with raw basic theism, which I do not oppose in and of itself.

If there is an 'evil' in this world, organised religion is certainly a prime suspect.

[pianistimo]

not all organized religions are organized in the way Christ organized.  they are concerned with hierarchy.  God is a freeing God and sees every member as a 'part of the body of Christ.'  important.  that is probably why so many younger people don't see themselves as a part of an organized church.  they don't have a 'place.'  but there is definately a place for each of us - in terms of service.  every day - God puts something in our paths or someone - to do something for.  it can be as simple as a parent, a spouse, a child, a friend.  you can be very 'unorganized' in an organization - and very organized in your personal walk with God. 

if you do attend a church - it does help, though.  because when you are with people of 'like mind' - you have less temptation to do the wrong thing.  i think younger people are under a misnomer that doing the right things isn't any fun.  that's probably because they don't think to get together in groups to do constructive things.  if you wait for adults to do all the planning - sometimes the fun stuff you want to do doesn't get done.  so, to be a team leader - you just go out and figure something you wnat to do.  get the other teens or young adults involved in the idea - do some fundraising and do whatever it is you have in mind.  travel.  service.  sightseeing and helping at the same time is a great thing!  even people in hollywood start seeing the relative stupidity of just earning money and using it on themselves.  i saw a recent doc on ashley judd and she was concerned for aids victims in guatamala or nicaragua or someplace like that - took a trip - and visited and served many people who were sick with aids (and also some that were in danger of getting it).  now, with the gospel you have the added bonus of spreading the Word of God - which is a huge boon of joy for someone who seemingly has 'no hope.'  God came to give hope to a hopeless world.  even the smallest kindness or smallest thing we do (ie giving a child clean water to drink) is doing it for God.

[opus10no2]

And I forgot to mention to potency of the stinky BS mythology.

It stinks, and you reek of it.

[pianistimo]

i can attest there is no bs to it.  everyone stumbles, but usually with God you get up again.  it is unlike addictions where one cannot get up.  the Holy Spirit is like water and gives you sustenance, hope, joy - etc. and you cannot get this anywhere else. 

tell me where you can get hope and joy in this world.  that is the bs of satan.  to give disillusionment and depression.  tell me how many christians commit suicide?  they probably don't listen to music telling them how pointless things are and how to commit acts of crime against others.

do you want to know bs.  bs is when someone is reeking of something that smells like pot or weed and they cannot think because they are not in their right mind to think.  they are 'controlled' by their drug of choice. 

when you come out of depression or drugs or mental or sexual abuse - you see the bs is what people who have not come out of it tell you!  that doing anything at anytime is perfectly fine.  that is bs.  it is saying that humans are not capable of controlling themselves.

[opus10no2]

Hope and joy should not and does not depend upon a mythology.

I have faith in that which I know, in that which is proven to me.

Have more trust and faith in humanity and you would no longer need the BS mythology to keep you going.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I am happy to advise that i will be leaving this forum at the end of the year.

It will be a great joy to avoid the pages of senseless religious ramblings.

I am finding it difficult to ignore the consistent religious posts (which is partly my fault), so the sensible thing to do would be to just leave, which is exactly what i will do. It has gotten to the stage where almost the entire Bible has been posted here and i am just fed up with it.

I have a huge pile of sheet music to scan which i have promised to my friends on pianophilia, which i have neglected due to the time i have wasted on here.

Pianistimo - I will be happy never to hear from you again.

Thal

It is a shame that you feel this way, although it's understandable. Certainly, it will be a loss to the forum. It is perhaps symptomatic that this announcement was greeted (ignored?) with yet more rambling verbiage.

[Floristan]

I am happy to advise that i will be leaving this forum at the end of the year.

It will be a great joy to avoid the pages of senseless religious ramblings.

I am finding it difficult to ignore the consistent religious posts (which is partly my fault), so the sensible thing to do would be to just leave, which is exactly what i will do. It has gotten to the stage where almost the entire Bible has been posted here and i am just fed up with it.

I have a huge pile of sheet music to scan which i have promised to my friends on pianophilia, which i have neglected due to the time i have wasted on here.

Pianistimo - I will be happy never to hear from you again.

Thal

I know how you feel.  It's why I post so infrequently.  What's the point of arguing with Pianistimo's self-delusion?  She is immune to reason or even common sense. and responding to her only serves to intensify her mindless, rambling religiosity and logorrhea.  At the same time I understand not wanting to let such nonsense go unchallenged, as too many people appear to believe "in" this rubbish that people like Pianistimo pass off as "faith."  The skeptic is always closer to faith than the "true believer."

Still, I shall sorely miss your drole and sometimes mordent wit and cynicism, and this forum will attract that much less of my attention as a consequence.  I wish you well in all your endeavors and look forward eagerly to your Pianophilia contributions!  You've always given most generously on that forum, and I'm grateful.

[thalbergmad]

Thank you.

I feel i have got to the stage where i have nothing to add and i am just getting more and more angry every day when i log in to see pages of scriptures and Biblical nonesense.

Regretfully, i have engaged in personal insults which is not my norm, but pianistimo has wound me up to the point where i refuse to even be on the same forum as her. To leave therefore seems the sensible thing to do.

I do now feel this forum is in decline and partially blame myself for this. Debating with her is like trying to cut down a giant redwood with a wet herring and I refuse to waste any more time in doing so.

There was a GOLDEN age of pianostreets that has now passed. I guess everything has a useful shelf life.

Thal

[pianistimo]

you are small minded to give up piano forum for posting on one or two threads about God.  i would say your posts equal or exceed mine about this topic.  am i complaining?  also, i have not insulted you to the same degree.  i should have left three months ago.  did i ?  i was tempted but did not.  that shows that you have little tolerance for people who do not agree with your views.  may as well live on an unfree planet.  that is what people want nowdays in everything.  that worldview is consistent according to dawkins...according to textbooks (do christians have a say in this?)

we should be the ones complaining.  it's funny how everyone turns the story!

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Debating with her is like trying to cut down a giant redwood with a wet herring

Thal

I thought it was like trying to nail jelly to a wall.. and dear me,  the amount of jelly expands exponentially with time.

There are so many factual errors in her posts that it is most tedious to go through the reams of "logorrhea" (nice one, Floristan) itemising them.

you have little tolerance for people who do not agree with your views. 

Hilarious.

I'd just like to say how thoroughly INtolerant Christianity has been through the ages of those that have opposed its views. In contrast, one of the things that the Catholic Church appears to have been historically tolerant of is institutionalised paedophillia.

[thalbergmad]

you are small minded to give up piano forum for posting on one or two threads about God.  i would say your posts equal or exceed mine about this topic.  am i complaining?  also, i have not insulted you to the same degree.  i should have left three months ago.  did i ?  i was tempted but did not.  that shows that you have little tolerance for people who do not agree with your views.  may as well live on an unfree planet.  that is what people want nowdays in everything.  that worldview is consistent according to dawkins...according to textbooks (do christians have a say in this?)

we should be the ones complaining.  it's funny how everyone turns the story!

1.Me small minded, that is laughable. I think you need to have a closer look at yourself.
2. One or two posts about God, are you sure.
3. My posts exceed yours on God. That is your most ridiculous claim yet.
4. You have not insulted me because you undoubtedly lack the wit to do so.
5. I wish you had left 3 months ago, coz i would not have to now.
6. I have tolerance for people with different views but not people with blind faith who's idea of a response is 500 words of garbled meaningless nonsense.
7. You have ruined this forum for me. I will glad to never hear from you again.
8. Get a life

[thalbergmad]

Hilarious.

I'd just like to say how thoroughly INtolerant Christianity has been through the ages of those that have opposed its views. In contrast, one of the things that the Catholic Church appears to have been historically tolerant of is institutionalised paedophillia.

Well said old boy.

Now they are getting a taste of their own medicine and they don't like it.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

tell me how many christians commit suicide? 

My local vicar did.

After getting 5 years prison for sexually assaulting 3 choirboys over a period of years, he did the decent thing and killed himself.

The church has many pervs and i fail to see why suicide rates among Christians should be different.

[cmg]

Still, I shall sorely miss your drole and sometimes mordent wit and cynicism, and this forum will attract that much less of my attention as a consequence.  I wish you well in all your endeavors and look forward eagerly to your Pianophilia contributions!  You've always given most generously on that forum, and I'm grateful.

Well said and the above echoes my sentiments.  You will be missed, Thal.

One last point.  The debate on religion could have been invigorating and even fun.  But it was never a "debate."  The pro-Christian side constantly played the "faith" card whenever logic or tangible proof trumped their position.  Okay, THAT was enormously irritating for everyone.  But, what was particularly offensive was the arrogance displayed towards the disbelievers.  It was only at that point the disbelievers got feisty and prickly.

Pianistimo, in my recollection, rarely displayed such haughtiness or arrogance -- just downright exasperting avoidance of points that stumped her or a tsunami of verbiage taken from lunatic-fringe, right-wing Christian websites.  I remember a post by Prometheus, I believe, where he expressed sympathy for the religious conditioning she was burdened with.  And, as I recall, he was soundly attacked and ridiculed for this kindness by Christians, other than pianistimo.

It's the other members of her Christian Chorus -- noticeably absent these days -- who, expecially, were profoundly ignorant of logic and totally proud of it.  Their expression of superiority in their irrational position on faith, their condescension, and their assumption that They Are The Chosen  was -- well, hell, it was shocking.  I thought I slipped back into the Deep South of America in the 1940s where anyone who dissented was either ostracized or killed. 

And the irony has always been that this arrogance is the opposite of "charity" -- yet one more Christian virtue that gets talked about incessantly, but is never practiced.  Pianistimo, in all fairness, displayed as much kindness here as she did religious nonsense and a total resistance to debating fairly and squarely --  and THAT, you can be sure, is the true sign of believing in Nonsense.  I'm with Prometheus in feeling sorry for her dilemma.  Having to defend the indefensible is an enormous burden.  Why she feels she must do it is anyone's guess.

"Pace," Thal, and thanks for the good fight.

[debussy symbolism]

1.Me small minded, that is laughable. I think you need to have a closer look at yourself.
2. One or two posts about God, are you sure.
3. My posts exceed yours on God. That is your most ridiculous claim yet.
4. You have not insulted me because you undoubtedly lack the wit to do so.
5. I wish you had left 3 months ago, coz i would not have to now.
6. I have tolerance for people with different views but not people with blind faith who's idea of a response is 500 words of garbled meaningless nonsense.
7. You have ruined this forum for me. I will glad to never hear from you again.
8. Get a life

Greetings.

I know that this may not be my place to say this, but who cares? I have bashed Nils needlessly for "terrorizing" the forum and did so without any coherent proof. To me, what you are doing here is in the similar vein. No one is doubting that you are not small minded, and for the record, you are calling "Pianistimo" small minded, and not the person behind the forum name.

She is not insulting you because she possesses the wit to not actually make a fool of herself over something as insignificant as a forum discussion.

No one is forcing you to leave. Actually, I think you are doing this just to have others say "See what you have done Pianistimo?" and have everyone feel pity.

If you can't tolerate "500 words of garbled meaningless nonsense," then just ignore them.

She did not ruin this forum, your reaction to her posts did.

Concerning the last statement, I do agree with you on that one. Pianistimo does tend to spend alot of time online and given that her posts are anything but succinct, it is plausible to assume that most of her daily time is spent here.

[thalbergmad]

No one is forcing you to leave. Actually, I think you are doing this just to have others say "See what you have done Pianistimo?" and have everyone feel pity.

She did not ruin this forum, your reaction to her posts did.

1. I do not seek any pity and i would not like it if i did.

2. You have done much to ruin this forum. In that respect, i am not even in your league.

[debussy symbolism]

1. I do not seek any pity and i would not like it if i did.

2. You have done much to ruin this forum. In that respect, i am not even in your league.

And pray tell just what exactly have I done that would deserve to be labeled as something ruining this forum? I for one am not the one that puts in jejune remarks in every post that bear no relationship to topic whatsoever. A little humor is nice, but you posts aren't exactly the most insightful either.

[debussy symbolism]

1. I do not seek any pity and i would not like it if i did.

2. You have done much to ruin this forum. In that respect, i am not even in your league.

I think in all of this Pianistimo has actually gotten my favor. She isn't whining about the forum, she isn't whining about people offending her. Come on, you are a grown man and you still react to something as simple as this in such a childish manner. I wonder if you are this irritable in life?

[thalbergmad]

I think in all of this Pianistimo has actually gotten my favor. She isn't whining about the forum, she isn't whining about people offending her. Come on, you are a grown man and you still react to something as simple as this in such a childish manner. I wonder if you are this irritable in life?

I leave whining about the Forum to you. You are far more expert in that field than me.

I am an irritable man.

[debussy symbolism]

I leave whining about the Forum to you. You are far more expert in that field than me.

I am an irritable man.

I know I have whined, but I admitted to that fault and appologized.

[debussy symbolism]

I am an irritable man.

Man? I thought you were a girl. To quote you from the chat room, "I is a girl." Might have been with an "s," but you get the idea.