Alarm - Amerika Going to the Fascists

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Marik:

Please, for your own sanity, do yourself a favour.

What is the point of arguing with someone who responds with stream-of-consciousness irrelevancies, illogically-drawn conclusions and misinformation (often completely ignoring the points you raise)? Elsewhere, I think you said the Mendelssohn-Rachmaninoff Midsummer Night's Dream was just about the hardest thing you had ever looked at. I assure you the argument you have been having with pianistimo is even harder, and considerably more pointless. I'm sure (as, I suspect, are most of us) that she means well, but .. sometimes I simply cannot believe what I am reading. Perhaps it is a cunning satire on America 

[m]

Please, for your own sanity, do yourself a favour.

That was the last time she provoked me... promise

In fact, the reason was... I thought of one expression and just could not resist. If I did not respond, probably never again I had a chance to use it 

[ronde_des_sylphes]

That was the last time she provoked me... promise

In fact, the reason was... I thought of one expression and just could not resist. If I did not respond, probably never again I had a chance to use it 

I'm sure there would be ample opportunities had you not used it. You would probably only have had to wait a few hours for the next one

[pianistimo]

are you all saying 'go UN?'  well, fine.  go at it.  it's not going to bring you any more joy than when each roman emperor was elected.  i personally believe that the UN will be more fascist than anything any of us have EVER experienced.  several of my ancestors have fought in past wars for america - and one of my family members served in iraq 2-3 times.  he didn't want to go back.  nobody wants to kill for the sake of killing - which the americans did not go over to do.  only to protect freedoms.  if this is a double standard - why don't you consider the other side?  TERRORISM.  how thoughtful is that?  to send your OWN women to bomb places.  if there is anything dirty and ugly - it is war.  i am not for war.  speak for yourselves out of three sides of your mouth.

'i am for peace.  i hate president bush.  i want aminijad to be the next president.'  that is trash.  to allow him to speak at a university here was extremely rude and illogical to me - when we are attempting to discipline his ANTI-women, ANTI-israel, FOR-WMD's (despite what he says - he is not a peaceful man).  He wants a PLACE in the UN? 

consider your freedoms again and fight for them by speaking against evil.  do you think the UN wants america to be a free nation?  no.  of course not.  they want to be like some kind of homeowner's association - telling everyone what they can do and what they can't do.  if they don't do it - what will happen?  guess!  THAT IS A DICTATORSHIP.  you will see when the future unfolds who is being irrational.

not only that - when the UN assumes as much control as it can - will we even have rights over our own bodies or those of our relatives.  think very hard about this.  they will probably seek to mandate birth control and other things that religious people find offensive.  to mandate how you come and go.  how you can travel. specific guidelines for everything.  spying will be a norm.  nobody will fight anymore - because they will have all the banking, justice, military at their disposal. what does this remind you of?  the roman empire!  don't buy into the system.  no matter how good it looks.

[mephisto]

'i am for peace.  i hate president bush.  i want aminijad to be the next president. 

It's Ahmadinejad. Learn how to spell.

[pianistimo]

ahMADinejad.

[ramseytheii]

Pianistimo,

Out of all diarrhoea of your ideas, random thoughts, and incoherent conclusions to imagine that Lenin is my idol would be the most pathetic thing.


I am not even curious where in the world did you get the idea that I think that socialist party will give us reason to work, when I actually escaped from Russia not to deal with that party and regime, and antisemitism it created.

Pianitisimo's deliberately offensive accusation towards Marik, that he was a Leninist, is further evidence bolstering my theory: she confuses disagreement with hate to the point that she cannot tell them apart.  This comes from being collateral damage in the war against ideas waged by today's media.

Today's media tells us there are certain groups we have to hate, no matter what they say, or do.  When pianitisimo is confronted with ideas from these groups, her mental faculties either shut down completely, or go completely haywire, because essentially she has been the victim of a 'dirty bomb' by these media groups.  She hears the word "Russian," and believes the person a communist ready to take over our country.  She hears the word "Yale," and believes the person a con artist ready to convince everyone to go visit their local abortionist.  She hears anything about the UN, no matter how positive, and imagines it to be a threat to her very existence.  Hate has replaced disagreement in her mind, and there is unfortunately no correction.  It has gone too far.

The most shameful thing about this episode, though, is that she would deliberately insult someone by accusing them of identifying with their oppressors.  Everyone in Amerika knows the rampant anti-Semitism of the Russian government, and for her to accuse marik of being a socialist is frankly disgusting, and she should repudiate that attack at once.

Walter Ramsey

[pianistimo]

rameseytheii, i don't care if marik went and changed his post.  he directly said that he wondered if lenin was correct.  correct according to whom?  according to someone who has emigrated to the usa.  what kind of logic is that?

for your information, ramseytheii, my husband's grandparents (russian) emigrated to the usa from the austria/hungary region.  why?  because there was a war and there was a great shortage of food.  do people care why others have emigrated.  no.  they don't remember it.

perfection of government doesn't exist.  at least acknowledge some perspective.

and ramseytheii - can't marik speak for himself?  if he thinks that i am calling a spade a spade - then he's right.  he claims to be of russian-jewish nationality - does not like america and yet wants usa to defend israel.


the UN.  that IS FASCIST.  what other religious leader besides the pope is allowed to address the UN?  any protestant?  what kind of one-sided deals are these?  perhaps you should readdress the UN's use of catholic hospitals and medical centers.  i will look into this some more - but they seem to be of more use in the current system because of MONITORING PEOPLE.  sound like nazism?  i'm not afraid, ramseytheii, because there is a God - and HE LOVES ISRAEL.  get used to it.  you will never fully wipe israel off the map.  and God is for all peoples - all over the globe - but they have to come to know Him as He is.  the God of the OT and NT.  the TRUE God.  not a pope.

and one last thing - we will see who is speaking truth.  in the next 10 years.

[mephisto]

Pianistimo I am sad to tell you that you infact are an anti-semite.You are a Christian Zionist (may I guess that you are part of the Evangelical movement?).  The only reason you are supporting Israel is because you belive that when the kingdom of David once again is established the 2nd coming of Jesus will be fastened. You don't care about Jews,jews are just little toys for you that you can use in your plan. But when the 2nd coming of Jesus has arrived, the Jews will not come to heaven. The Christian's day of judgement is not for Jews. Pianistimo you don't care about Jews, you care about Israel as a big part of you scheme to make Jesus return once more. You are an anti-semite. And you are the most dangerous type of anti-semite that exists. You hide behind you support for Israel, but the reason for you support in Israel is based on dark thoughts.

And they have no basis in the Bible you hold so dare to your self.

[term]

While i certainly don't agree with pianistimo, i cannot imagine she deserves all these insults. There's a number of people just waiting for her to start again so that they can proceed with their pianistimo-bashing. Sad things happening again. I'm not saying pianistimo is being smart with what she says, but you guys aren't smarter either. Many of you post much under your level.
And one thing is sure, there's a huge number of people (some of them christians, some not) that are of the same opinion as she is. Unfortunately for her, she is the only one here representing that group. I'm not quite sure whether i regret that, but when i see how these discussions always digress into pointless rambling, i sometimes wish there was at least a fair discussion: pseudo-reasonable persons against christian dogmatists. I'll get popcorn for that and take a whole evening time. But i want to see a *real* flamewar...

[pianistimo]

i do not believe that.  what i believe I SAID.  'to the jew FIRST.'  i have never said anything different.  everyone else is GRAFTED IN.  why were ALL 12 disciples jews?  and, remember - before this thread i pointed out that the apostolic succession was through the line of David - not the popes.  and that peter sufferred at the hands of an emperor who favored simon magus peter - who interrupted the line of succession.  sure - people will hate me.  but just because people hate you doesn't imply you are wrong.  why do they hate you?  maybe there is some truth to what you say?  would Jesus come back to a THRONE that had changed hands to those without his law and priesthood?  did they suffer persecution for their faith for keeping the torah?  'not one jot or one title will pass from the law until ALL is fulfilled.'  until Yeshua comes in the fulness.  what then are people judged by?  the thief on the cross was judged by faith.  it certainly wouldn't be that way for those who killed or persecuted jews.  they would have to confess bitterly.

if Jesus (Yeshua) was a jew - why would he hate jews?  hitler hated jews.  many people down through history have hated jews.  why?  because they don't like the fact they were 'chosen' to carry the laws and the love of God throughout history. the jewish people have always been typically PEACEMAKERS.  people don't like them because they are blessed by God for keeping his torah.

israel and jerusalem in particular - are spoken of in the bible variously as 'my beloved' or 'the dove.'  the peace.  the righteousness that will come when Messiah enters time for all time.  He (God) is the only one who can create lasting peace with ALL NATIONS.

should we care what race we are?  no.  God says he can create worshippers out of stones.  why should we be like little children?  because they don't acknowledge race.  and one last thing - it would surely make the sufferring of the holocaust finally understood to be the reason the JEW IS FIRST in the kingdom.  sufferring with Christ as He did - and being raised to the highest power and glory.  hitler wanted government to work from the top down.  God wants government to work from the bottom up.  for those in power to come IN PEACE.  the kingdom of God will first begin, according to the bible - in jerusalem - where all will come to know His Ways.  how would we know his ways without any law?  the law of God brings peace.  nobody has tried it - excepting those whom he gave it to.

[dss]

      PDNFTT!

[pianistimo]

how about isaiah 49:16 'behold, i have inscribed you on the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me.'

i don't think Jesus just said 'pfft  jews!  they're all trouble.'  in fact, i think He loved them so much that they will be at his right hand.  under king david.  david was a 'man after God's own heart.'  how much easier it is to understand Yeshua by also understanding He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  that means he doesn't change his laws by whim.  He remains constant.  in hebrews - (spoken to the jews, btw) - it mentions again the covenant  He made with them.  how the Sabbath is a sign of a covenant between him and them.  who else in the entire world has He made a covenant with.  nobody else.  that is why He calls israel and zion - a betrothed virgin.  when jerusalem is again happy - God will be happy.

as i understand it - gentiles were grafted in because of jewish unbelief.  but, how fast they will believe when Yeshua does deliver them.  when they see with their own eyes that He has not forgotten.  isaiah 49:18 'lift up your eyes and look around; all of them gather together, they come to you....'  that is speaking of the ressurrection of those who died for their faith.  would Yeshua not come to His own FIRST?  it's just strange to think that salvation is not of the jews.  it is!  the bible says it.  and if Yeshua was the first to die - then those who died after Him have not died in vain if there is a ressurrection of the dead. 

if one does not believe in the ressurrection - well, then there is no hope.  no justice.  no reward for the righteous.   

btw, i feel that isaiah 49 speaks directly to those who have lost loved ones in the holocaust.  vs. 20 'the children of whom you were beraved will yet say in your ears (after being ressurrected) 'the place is too cramped for me; make room for me that i may live here....behold, i will lift up My hands to the nations, and set up My standard to the peoples; and they will bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters will be carried on their shoulders...and all flesh will knowthat I, the Lord, am your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty one of Jacob.'

[thalbergmad]

Ignorant deranged crackpot.

[pianistimo]

what you are actually saying is that religion confessed openly is against state policy.  join the UN.  that's what they'll say too.  someday you'll regret attempting to enforce your own rules on pf because it will come right back at you.

a good example would be to compare someone who loves God to someone who loves tennis.  what if you were not allowed to speak about tennis matches, wear the clothes, go to the matches?  would you be bewildered?  of course.  the very thing you love - others hate and disdain.

wouldn't it be better to have free speech and allow people of like minds to talk together? do you realize that this is exactly what the early christians endured?  that people didn't allow them to worship openly and they had to go underground.  the persecution became so intense - some had to leave the country.  sound familiar.  well, that's where it leads.  fascism.

fascists have very little self worth and a lot of self-loathing.  they cannot stand when others have something they do not - but do not try to attain it themselves through hard work.  much easier to steal and kill.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

a good example would be to compare someone who loves God to someone who loves tennis.  what if you were not allowed to speak about tennis matches, wear the clothes, go to the matches?  would you be bewildered?  of course.  the very thing you love - others hate and disdain.

I love chess, snooker and many other things. I don't feel the need to inject them into threads left right and centre on this forum.

[pianistimo]

WHO STARTED THIS THREAD?  it wasn't me.  i'm just showing that it can be possible to outwit people on their own agendas.  to kill religion and freedom of speech by dismissing the very country it is allowed in the most.  i typically don't talk about it unless someone is threatening to kill themselves.

do you have a favorite dictator too?

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I think it very unlikely that ANYONE on this thread wants to kill religion or freedom.

[pianistimo]

but everyone is for joining the UN?  who allows that fascist ahmadinijad to address it - as well as COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY requesting his presence and addressing them?  wierd.  don't complain about me.  complain about people who are intellectual.  i'm just one of those so-called 'crackpots.'

[ahinton]

how about isaiah 49:16 'behold, i have inscribed you on the palms of my hands; your walls are continually before me.'

When you are on one of your typical crusades here, your wall are continually before all of us - and most of probably wonder how soon they'll mercifully come tumbling down...

i don't think Jesus just said 'pfft  jews!  they're all trouble.'  in fact, i think He loved them so much that they will be at his right hand.  under king david.  david was a 'man after God's own heart.'  how much easier it is to understand Yeshua by also understanding He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.  that means he doesn't change his laws by whim.  He remains constant.  in hebrews - (spoken to the jews, btw) - it mentions again the covenant  He made with them.  how the Sabbath is a sign of a covenant between him and them.  who else in the entire world has He made a covenant with.  nobody else.  that is why He calls israel and zion - a betrothed virgin.  when jerusalem is again happy - God will be happy.

And all will be well in that contrived, fantasistic pianistimotional demi-monde...

as i understand it

Something always collapses in the pit of my stomach whenever I read those words from you...

gentiles were grafted in because of jewish unbelief.  but, how fast they will believe when Yeshua does deliver them.  when they see with their own eyes that He has not forgotten.  isaiah 49:18 'lift up your eyes and look around; all of them gather together, they come to you....'  that is speaking of the ressurrection of those who died for their faith.  would Yeshua not come to His own FIRST?  it's just strange to think that salvation is not of the jews.  it is!  the bible says it.  and if Yeshua was the first to die - then those who died after Him have not died in vain if there is a ressurrection of the dead. 

if one does not believe in the ressurrection - well, then there is no hope.  no justice.  no reward for the righteous.   

btw, i feel that isaiah 49 speaks directly to those who have lost loved ones in the holocaust.  vs. 20 'the children of whom you were beraved will yet say in your ears (after being ressurrected) 'the place is too cramped for me; make room for me that i may live here....behold, i will lift up My hands to the nations, and set up My standard to the peoples; and they will bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters will be carried on their shoulders...and all flesh will knowthat I, the Lord, am your Savior, and your Redeemer, the Mighty one of Jacob.'

(...yawn...) Please, Susan, if you can do nothing else worthwhile here, do you think you could possibly find it in your heart to try to do us all a favour by getting used to the idea that resurrection - whatever validity or otherwise it may have as a concept outside Mahler's magnificent Second Symphony - has only one "s"?...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

perhaps the reason i am emotional - is that the bible speaks of a millenial rule of Jesus (Yeshua) that brings with it peace, hope, joy and fairness for everyone.  it seems this is not possible on human terms.  so - who would not hope for a better world?  isaiah, of all the books, is most hopeful in terms of judgement, too.  especially for israel.  no matter how any of us backslides - our hope is in mercy.  if God is just - He is also merciful to sinners.  but, if we say we have no sin - then we are liars.

[mephisto]

but everyone is for joining the UN?  who allows that fascist ahmadinijad to address it - as well as COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY requesting his presence and addressing them?  wierd.  don't complain about me.  complain about people who are intellectual.  i'm just one of those so-called 'crackpots.'

If you listen to the speach by Ahmadinejad he is mostly quoting from the Qu'ran and Bible. Speaking about Adam and Eve, Moses and Jesus etc. You would probably LOVE his speach.

Here is a quote by the Iranian President about Jesus:

Jesus was the pillar of divine compassion and mercy.

 What do you think!?

[ahinton]

perhaps the reason i am emotional - is that the bible speaks of a millenial rule of Jesus (Yeshua) that brings with it peace, hope, joy and fairness for everyone.  it seems this is not possible on human terms.  so - who would not hope for a better world?  isaiah, of all the books, is most hopeful in terms of judgement, too.  especially for israel.  no matter how any of us backslides - our hope is in mercy.  if God is just - He is also merciful to sinners.  but, if we say we have no sin - then we are liars.

Please just read what our Norwegian friend "mephisto" has just posted, before you respond again - and do please try to refer to his post whn you do. The book of Isiah has some remarkable content - so much so that a magnificent song cycle including a text thereform was composed by an English composer who was not only an atheist but a committed and sincere Communist - Alan Bush (1900-1995); the music transcends all questions about both the Bible and the Communism here...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

You would probably LOVE his speach.

She will not listen to it as her blinkered programming will not allow it.

Thal

[pianistimo]

if Jesus was a pillar of divine mercy...etc - what is he?  the opposite.  calling for the destruction of the state of israel to a mass of iranians?  he is the one with horse blinders on.  he says the holocaust never happened.  hitler didn't want it to be apparent.

they are evil.  both of them.  ahmadnijad is a FRAUD.  hey, it rhymes.  he talks nice.  but he's a snake.

[thalbergmad]

Would you like some more troll food?

[ahinton]

I have already referred to the fact that Ahmadinejad has made certain remarks and been reported as having made certain other remarks which are, shall we say, less than constructively helpful in their avowed sentiments towards Israel but added that we cannot really be certain exactly what he really thinks on such matters; now, likewise, Ahmadinejad's remarks about Jesus Christ to which "mephisto" has drawn our attention may have to be received in the spirit of a certain degree of tempering as to how genuine they may be (although I very much hope not), but let's at least try to give him the benefit of the doubt, especially since it would be perfectly reasonable to speak of those remarks as having been uttered in the true spirit of a genuine Muslim - I say that as a direct consequence of my experience of devout Muslims having always been one of people with a profound love of and respect for Jesus Christ and His teachings - and I say all of this as a self-confessed non-Christian and non-Muslim.

Best,

Alistair

[ramseytheii]

rameseytheii, i don't care if marik went and changed his post.  he directly said that he wondered if lenin was correct.  correct according to whom?  according to someone who has emigrated to the usa.  what kind of logic is that?

Don't endeavor to lecture any of us about logic.  If what you say is true, that he "said that he wondered if lenin was correct," your rather hazy - I'm being diplomatic - logic led you to believe that is evidence of idolatry.  Or was it really your own thought process that reached that conclusion?  Continue reading to find out.

for your information, ramseytheii, my husband's grandparents (russian) emigrated to the usa from the austria/hungary region.  why?  because there was a war and there was a great shortage of food.  do people care why others have emigrated.  no.  they don't remember it.

Do you care, or have you already forgotten?  Terribly confusing.  You sound rather like you are metaphorically defending yourself by saying, "Yes, but I have a gay friend," but in this case it's, "Yes, my husband had a gay friend two generations ago."  However could you have reached such a defensive position on immigrants?  For more information, continue reading.

perfection of government doesn't exist.  at least acknowledge some perspective.

For more information on your perspective, continue reading.

and ramseytheii - can't marik speak for himself?  if he thinks that i am calling a spade a spade - then he's right.  he claims to be of russian-jewish nationality - does not like america and yet wants usa to defend israel.  he's loonier than you.  you ARE anti-semitic.  both you and cmg intimate this by referring to goats in messages to me (when you want to demean my love for the israeli people), and saying that people should love socialistic systems which have previously squashed all possibilities of one practicing their faith in peace.  you are, frankly, very unknowledgeable about history.  you are not for freedom of religion or free speech.  this is what you are for:

Here are the blatant lies you have vomited out in this post:
1) "can't marik speak for himself?"  I was quoting him.
2) "you... [refer] to goats in messages to me..."  I never once invoked a goat.
3) "you want to demean my love for the israeli people"  No - I want to highlight your hatred of so many other groups.
4) "saying that people should love socialistic systems"  I never once said that.
5) "you are... unknowledgeable [sic] about history."  Trying to convince yourself, or others?  I never made any statements about history here.
6) "you are not for freedom of religion or free speech."  Prove it, sweetcakes.

Six blatant lies in a row.   What inspired such dishonesty?  Continue reading for the answer.

catholicism gone political.  the UN.  that IS FASCIST.  what other religious leader is allowed to address the UN?  any protestant?  what kind of one-sided deals are these?  perhaps you should readdress the UN's use of catholic hospitals and medical centers.  i will look into this some more - but they seem to be of more use in the current system because of MONITORING PEOPLE.  sound like nazism?  i'm not afraid, ramseytheii, because there is a God - and HE LOVES ISRAEL.  get used to it.  you will never fully wipe israel off the map.  and God is for all peoples - all over the globe - but they have to come to know Him as He is.  the God of the OT and NT.  the TRUE God.  not a pope.

Now you are accusing me of being an anti-Zionist nihilist.  The damage done is worse than I previously thought, and I thought I had thought the worst.  When you find out that Protestants have spoken at the UN, what will you do to repudiate your statements?

I promised an explanation for my above comments, and here it is.  I can only do well to repeat myself, because you are proving my case for me!

You have been conditioned to hatred based on the politics of identity.  A label or word, whether in or out of context, acts like a trigger in your brain, which is ground zero of the war against ideas, and causes you to spout out the most irrelevant, hate-filled trash.  Marik apparently said, "Maybe Lenin was right about something."  You heard: "Lenin was right."  And you unjustly attacked him, accusing him of being in league with his own oppressors.  Then, in this post, you suggest that anybody who immigrates to the USA should not be trusted:

"correct according to whom?  according to someone who has emigrated to the usa. what kind of logic is that?"

Where did you get this hostility towards immigrants, the same hostility that causes a contradiction in you, because of what you should be learning from the Holy Scrit, and makes you at once vitriolic and defensive?  You've learned it from the relentless media, which is doing its job to make everyone terrified of immigrants, to feel they are threatening your livelihood, and endangering your future.  You have no conception of individuals in this case; you only hear the word "immigrant" and hatred spews out of you like vomit from "The Exorcism." 

The damage is worse than I thought - the damage that was done to your brain, to prevent you from listening to others ideas.  You can't even disagree.  You just hate.  You have confused totally, from being brainwashed by society, disagreement and hate.  You have forgotten that disagreement is possible without hatred, and you hate seemingly without boundaries.

Why did you throw out a red herring, claiming that I said everyone should love socialism, that I was putting words in someone else's mouth (someone you attacked, not me), that I am anti-Semitic?  Because you can't even begin to face the idea from my original post.  You didn't address a single cogent point in my post, you only threw out red herrings, to deflect attention from yourself.  I don't know what you think of me, but you obviously think I am Catholic, and that in itself is enough for you to hate.  The word "Catholic" is apparently a trigger in your conditioned brain, a trigger which causes you to make assumptions about political alignment, racism, and all sorts of other things which you cannot back up. 

Once again, you may have disagreed with something I said: but you responded only with hate.  You cannot disagree without hating.  That is a shame, and yet I don't blame you personally.  I know you are a victim of a greater struggle which is happening in our country, a struggle designed to keep people down, to keep them divided, and to keep them stupid.  Our minds are the ground zero of this struggle, and if we ever want to reassert democracy according to the Constitution, we have to learn once again to disagree without hatred.

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

Mr Ramsey - although I will not quote your spirited and perfectly understandable argument here in its entirety, for reasons of space saving , I assure you that I have read it and one thing that occurs to me about some of what you include in it was brought to mind when pondering the comment made by whoever-it-was that the precise authenticity of certain remarks attributed to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad by the various journalistic media may be somewhat compromised; by the same token, I do rather wonder whether something similar might pertain here in Susan's case (albeit without the intervention of the newsmongers, of course) in the sense and to the extent that she may not in reality actually feel the way that you portray her as feeling about certain matters and that some measure of exaggeration and misinterpretation (albeit largely self-inflicted) may apply here. For example, notwithstanding certain less than complimentary-sounding sentiments about Roman Catholics, non-Christians, non-heterosexuals, etc. that we have noted being expressed in these parts, does anyone here genuinely believe that Susan would publicly berate every member of such categories on each occasion that she encountered them? Were that to be the case, I would personally expect nothing but contempt from her (even though I'm not, for the record, a Roman Catholic or a homosexual), but this has yet to reveal itself. I think that what should really be seen to matter where Susan and her outpourings are concerned is that she should make herself pause to reflect calmly and then resolve to make considerably more efforts both to express herself with clarity and articulacy and to ensure that she doesn't appear to claim to know about things of which she is in reality uncertain. But then that's only my opinion, for what it may (or more likely may not) be worth...

Best,

Alistair

[m]

rameseytheii, i don't care if marik went and changed his post.  he directly said that he wondered if lenin was correct.  correct according to whom?  according to someone who has emigrated to the usa.  what kind of logic is that?

Don't endeavor to lecture any of us about logic.  If what you say is true, that he "said that he wondered if lenin was correct," your rather hazy - I'm being diplomatic - logic led you to believe that is evidence of idolatry.  Or was it really your own thought process that reached that conclusion? 

This is an original citation from my post. For the record, I NEVER CHANGED A SINGLE WORD out of that:
 
Not that I am a big fan of Lenin. I am still not sure whether he was good or evil . Nevertherless, he was incredibly smart person. These were his words: "It is impossible to live in society and be free of society".

I think any sane person could see what a sarcasm I tried to put into the first two sentences.
Only such inflamed brane as that of Pianistimo could possibly make a conlcusion that Lenin is my idol.

In fact, I can't help, but keep wondering, what kind of experiment God had in mind creating Pianistimo? Or was it just a joke?

It is clear she is just a very sick person and her mental confusion needs serious help.
I am not sure, but maybe lobotomy?

[pianistimo]

who started this inflammatory thread?  you, mr ramseytheii.  so don't tell me that now that i'm upset about what you say - that you can relieve your conscience by saying 'i'm so innocent.'  your ideas of history are wrapped up in the title of this thread.

my perspective may be different than yours and i am merely giving my side.  now you say i am inflammatory.  i am speaking from a standpoint of who was the most fascist and dictatorial in history and who is likely to be in the future.

noone has argued any points - and instead bring up all sorts of other accusations.  ie admittedly ramseytheii's own problems with gays.  i never said anything of the sort.  in fact, i think that many people who are very intelligent are misunderstood.  have i ever started a thread bashing homosexuals.  no.  have i had pointed questions at me.  yes.  why?  i don't really know.  perhaps people want to know what the bible says about it so they can laugh.  go ahead laugh.  if you want to read about the shortcomings of every person who has ever lived - it would be that every person falls short of the grace of God.

but, to bash President Bush for supposed fascism when terrorism is rampant seems like saying the greater of two evils is President Bush.  do you know your history, ramseytheii.  there have been MUCH greater dictators.  and there are more to come.

[ramithediv]

Poor Pianistimo.

You really are MAD, are you not?

Completely brainwashed

[pianistimo]

you have not spoken a word of what you believe.  can you share?  or is it a secret?

i happen to believe, ramithediv, that even more important than music - is world peace.  do you think it will come by the UN?

you, of all people, should also know that the law of God is perfect.  it cannot be outdone.  to achieve world peace - means yes- a benevolent dictator that requires justice and mercy instead of evil for evil.

why do i quote the bible.  it is not madness. i assure you.  btw, that is the same thing the apostle paul was charged with.  he continued to speak the words of the bible (torah AND Jesus words), too, and quoted Jesus Christ.  he said that the purpose Jesus came was to graft all people into a covenant people.  that Jesus Christ's purpose was PEACE.

[ramithediv]

you have not spoken a word of what you believe.  can you share?  or is it a secret?

i happen to believe, ramithediv, that even more important than music - is world peace.  do you think it will come by the UN?

you, of all people, should also know that the law of God is perfect.  it cannot be outdone.

Religion is a personal thing to me, and I do not wish to discuss it with you, or anyone else, thank you.

After all you've written in this thread, and others, how can you talk of world peace without laughing?

[pianistimo]

how can people talk about President Bush and not have perspective.

HITLER, STALIN, IDI AMIN, present day MUGABI, PRESIDENT of N. KOREA, MAO TSE TUNG, so many others presently - terrorist regimes in SUDAN. 

we don't have people being BUTCHERED for ideas.  for expressing God-given freedoms.  where did they come from?  GOD.

I SUPPOSE SADDAM HUSSEIN SHOULD BE EVERYONE's HERO?  HE DIDN't WANT THE STATE OF ISRAEL TO EXIST.  now you blast president bush.  a lot of thanks!  where are you coming from, rami, outer space?

AHMADINIJAD should address the UN?  do people believe this?  well, he already did - the scumbag.  he also said that israel should not exist ON LIVE BROADCAST.  also, that the holocaust never happened.  what do you say to that?  NOTHING. 

i'll tell you who is MAD.  people who do not appreciate blessings.  NOR READ HISTORY.

[m]

we don't have people being BUTCHERED for ideas.  for expressing God-given freedoms.  where did they come from?  GOD.

May I ask you if all those excrements you put on me, including the idea that Lenin is my idol and I hate America is also out of God-given freedom?
I would be more than curious to know as for where did they come from?

God?? or your dirty mouth?

[ramithediv]

i'll tell you who is MAD.  people who do not appreciate blessings.  NOR READ HISTORY.

Perhaps you ought to read some real history instead of pretending the your new testament is actual history.

[pianistimo]

dear marik,

i have not used words such as excretement and dirty on you - and yet you seem to project everything that you imagine of persecution on to me.  why?  do you have feeling for freedom?  do you care that people feel deeply about it?  where would we get this feeling if we had not read about our own american history.  when it is twisted - it is wrong.  of course, not all is perfect - but i admitted that already.  when you don't like what i say - you attack me personally.  what does this do?  make you feel superior?

and dear rami,

i still have no idea what you think.  of course, if you are non-religious - it would explain why you may not believe the way i do about israel and truly don't care if it survives or not.  as i read history - through the eyes of american immigrants - i see a tolerance and love and care for spreading the gospel to the world.  that was the commission Jesus Christ gave to the disciples.  if you don't like this - it's not like we have to agree.  why do people on the forum outshout others whom they disagree. can't they say - i disagree?  it's always personal attacks.  that is why we have wars.

america was founded on the principle of 'one nation under God, indivisible, with freedom and liberty for all.'  how it won the battle for independence was a miracle and direct expression of 'manifest destiny.'  at many times during the war for independence - there were huge setbacks.  how about the boston massacre?  it started out simple enough - but there were major things at stake.  and history is written according to which side is writing it.  this was the perspective of the americans: https://odur.let.rug.nl/~usa/D/1751-1775/bostonmassacre/anon.htm notice - banking and commerce were restricted.

[ramithediv]

it's not like we have to agree.  why do people on the forum outshout others whom they disagree.

HA, HA.

Did you have to get someone else to write that for you.

[pianistimo]

?  you mean, do i have a script writer at 3:55 am.  no.

funny you ask.  i am a woman and i have ideas.  does that bother you?  can you give me a list of 10 people whom you consider fascist and put President Bush into perspective.

fascism starts like this (small stuff) they shoot into a crowd of unarmed people.  either they win by killing enough people or they are outnumbered.

[ramithediv]

america was founded on the principle of 'one nation under God, indivisible, with freedom and liberty for all.'  how it won the battle for independence was a miracle and direct expression of 'manifest destiny.'  at many times during the war for independence - there were huge setbacks.  how about the boston massacre? 

Do you believe in manifest destiny???

[ramithediv]

can you give me a list of 10 people whom you consider fascist

I believe that YOU may be near the top of such a list.

[pianistimo]

tell my why protecting freedoms and speaking out AGAINST fascism makes me a fascist.  what have i said that made you think that i would like people to come into my country and address an 'intellectual' university (which should know more about american history correctly than me) when they say 'the holocaust never happened.'

rami - just unload.  what do YOU believe?  you are hiding behind 'what do you think?' questions that make you look like you have no ideas of your own. 

DO YOU THINK ISRAEL SHOULD EXIST?  if you do then why would you scourge President Bush for knocking of one of israel's MAJOR enemies?  Saddam Hussein.  do you know what his plans were?

and - why do you think israel exists?  MANIFEST DESTINY!  that means - God wants the nation of israel to be.  He always has.  jacob and israel are synonomous terms.  he is the father of the 12 tribes of israel that are spread out throughout the world.  from these - nations were to be born.  they are now in existence.  read the promises of the bible and you'll see they all came true.  this IS manifest destiny.

genesis 28:13 (dream of joseph) 'and behold, the Lord stood above it (the ladder) and said, 'I am the Lord,the God of your father Abraham and the God of Issac; the land on which you lie, I will give it to you and to your descendants.  your descendants shall also be like the dust of the earth, and you shall spread out to the west and to the east and to the north and to the south; and in your descendants shall all the families of the earth be blessed.'

joseph's two sons (who were born of aseneth, btw - ephraim and manassah - which show God's love for ALL peoples - even including egypt!) were blessed by jacob and told in gen 48:19 '....his descendants shall become a multitude of nations...'  ephraim or possibly modern day britain was a COMMONWEALTH of nations.  you can trace jewish and israeli ancestry of the crown by tea-tephi - a hebrew princess which was brought to the isles by jeremiah.  the line of king David has never ceased to exist.  that was promised in the bible, too.  that his line would go on forever.  i'll find it if you want.

[pianistimo]

genesis 49:10 'the scepter shall not depart from judah until shiloh comes.'  or PEACE.  until there is absolute peace on the earth.  and who will inherit a royal throne?  Jesus Christ.  who already IS king.

people may not like what i say - but it's true.  the true apostolic succession will and was jewish - from the line of judah.  that is why the term 'lion of judah.'  the lion is on the british royal flag.

luke 1:31-33 mentions JEsus Christ being from the royal line of David maternally.

[ramithediv]

and - why do you think israel exists?  MANIFEST DESTINY! 

So you do believe in manifest destiny.

And that also justifies the slaughter of Native Americans by the U.S. almost to extinction.

Because we have god on our side, we can do as we please, as it is really god making us do this.

[pianistimo]

as i said before - every country has evil.  there is no perfect country.  but, not all history has been divulged truthfully.  did you know there was much good done to the indian as well.  read about william penn.  he dealt truthfully and faithfully with the indians.

any country that has been possessed previously by another peoples - will be accused of the same.  name ANY country!

but, i do believe that God's purpose is divinely worked out and we can see it - though we were not personally involved until we were born into it.  that was so the gospel would be preached to the entire world.  including the indians.  there were settlers that translated the bible into cherokee so they could read the bible and see that the promises of God reach out to the furthest corners of the earth.

many gods or ONE true God?  the indians had been locked into a system of false religion.  they had no bible to read, and they often offerred prayers and sacrifices to the 'god of the sky,' the 'god of the forest,'  the 'god of the river,' and whatever other gods they had.  i'm from alaska - we see a lot of totem poles.  they would list the gods and pray to them. 

john eliot came over to america in 1631 and learned the language of the massachusetts indians and began to translate the bible into their tongue.  it took him nearly thirty years of patient work to do this, and all that time he was teaching (preaching in the colony of massachusettes) as well.  his bible was one of the first books printed in america and many of his 'praying indians' learned to read in it. 

eliot was a sweet and simple man and very generous.  eliot showed his kindness by speaking up when people tried to sell the indians as slaves.  roger williams was another missionary to the indians.  he left a large colony in 1636 to set up his own colony.  usually the indians would kill a white man who lived by himself, because the white men often stole the indians land.  but this man was different.  he offerred to buy land instead of taking it and he truly loved the indians.  many years he taught them about the bible and witnessed to them about Christ.

david brainerd, john wesley.  and sequoyah, himself a cherokee indian, increased the communication process and the spread of the gospel. sequoyah often wished his people could read and write the way white men could.  after 12 years of hard work, he created the only known indian alphabet of this time.  other tribes had only spoken languages.  if they did write, they wrote in pictures.  sequoyah created eighty-six symbols.  each symbol stood for a sound in the cherokee language.  after the cherokee alphabet, which is called the syllabary, was completed, the cherokee indians quickly learned how to read and write in their own language.  the new testament was translated.

[ramithediv]

there were settlers that translated the bible into cherokee so they could read the bible and see that the promises of God reach out to the furthest corners of the earth.

Do you think that they asked for this. I think not.

You will learn the bible, or you get no food or provisions, and if you still refuse we will just kill you.

[pianistimo]

there are events in history that are untold by universities.  that is - not ALL whites were into killing.  some were true christians and were sometimes killed themselves.  many oppossed slavery.  many opposed taking land - and preferred to pay for it. 

daniel boone learned to live with the indians peacefully.  otherwise, he would have had a very short life!

just as israel wandered in the desert for 40 years - the early settlers had no promises excepting that they were free from any sort of conditions on their religious freedom and speech freedoms.  if history was NOT manifest destiny - noone would have heard the gospel on this entire continent. 

what universities teach is hatred of God, his law, and the gospel of Jesus Christ.  those who settled jamestown were interested in gold - but those who settled in plymouth were worshippers of God.  there was a lack of freedom in england at this time.  james I was king of england and he said that he was head of the church as well as head of the government.  (well, he might have been!)  anyways - the people of england were not free to worshipas they thought they should.  the 'separatists' believed that the church of england was not being true to the bible.  they had secret meetings and when they were caught, they were often jailed for their beliefs.

they moved to holland. in england, they had been farmers, in holland, they had no money.   they heard of the settlement in jamestown and thought that the king might allow them to make their own settlement in america.  they asked permission from king james to found a colony in america where they would remain loyal subjects but able to worship God int heir own churches. king james gave his permission.

in september of 1620, a group of separatists boarded a little ship known as the mayflower.  on board were 102 passengers.  not every passenger was a separatist.  some just wanted a chance to work in the new world.  the separtists called them 'strangers.'  they were content with the church of england.  neither side tried to force the other to believe exactly as themselves.  this group, together, were known as the pilgrims.

the mayflower's captain, christopher jones, planned to sail the mayflower closer to jamestown, but storms blew the ship far off it's course.  this is what i mean when i say 'manifest destiny.' what blew the ship off course and WHY?  during that time 'in order to protect themselves and others, and in order to protect their right to worship God the way they felt was best, they knew that they must set up a government.  they wanted a government by laws rather than a government by men only.'  they met together in the cabin of the mayflower and came up with the 'mayflower compact.'

IT IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF AMERICAN HISTORY, BECAUSE IT IS THE FIRST WRITTEN AGREEMENT FOR SELF-GOVERNMENT IN AMERICA.  the mayflower contract says many things that the decl. of independence and the constitution of the US would say later.  it explained the terms of SELF-GOVERNANCE.  a law by the people and FOR the people.

[ramithediv]

there are events in history that are untold by universities.  that is - not ALL whites were into killing.  some were true christians and were sometimes killed themselves.  many oppossed slavery.  many opposed taking land - and preferred to pay for it. 

daniel boone learned to live with the indians peacefully.  otherwise, he would have had a very short life!

Yes, I do actually believe that there were, and still are good christians. There are also good people who are not christians.

I also believe that you are neither, although you believe yourself the former.

You keep naming people from Americas brief history as though others may have heard of them.
And just because a couple of americans may have been nice to the natives, I don't think it helped them much, as the other millions of invaders were not quite so nice.

[pianistimo]

rami - you say that you believe in goodness and yet do not believe in freedom or liberty for israel - let alone the usa?  what is offensive in what i have said?

why do you judge me personally and not my words?  God is different than you.  he sees our hearts.  i do not care what you say about me.  He will judge me by what i say.  'by your own words you will be judged.'  if you judge me harshly - shouldn't you worry about your own judgement?  or do you not believe in the judgement?

another point of manifest destiny - is that when captain miles standish brought them to where he thought they should be - guess who greeted them in english?  SAMOSET!  an indian who had learned english from englishmen who had traded with them.  he left and brought back squanto, who had been to england and who spoke english as well.  what are the chances of that?  THIS IS WHAT I MEAN ABOUT MANIFEST DESTINY!  to come to exactly the place where they can be helped through the winter.

what do you say to this?