Alarm - Amerika Going to the Fascists

[ramseytheii]

Interesting and chilling reading...

https://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Your thoughts?

Walter Ramsey

[pianistimo]

things are falling apart all over the globe.  i believe that President Bush may be the last US President to take a stand against facism in it's truest sense.  the United Nations.  bill 1146 ? (and S 3633 last year) is something to look into.  do you want to be told to give up a large portion of your military to police the world?  that is facism.  to control more and more.  the UN would cause our country to be taxed as well.  that was last year's bill.  President Bush merely wants to look after the USA.  if we were facist we'd try to take over south america and restructure it.  unfortunately, that is what they want to do to us.  facism in it's truest sense is simply a group of terrorists with a lot of weapons, drugs, and bad plans for free people and their assets. 

[cmg]

Interesting and chilling reading...

https://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

Your thoughts?

Walter Ramsey

You're preaching to the converted here, Mr. Ramsey. 

Bush is a blight on the American presidency, and given that I've survived Nixon, that's saying something.  I've never seen more Americans in any time in history, sit back and allow their rights to be eroded.  I can only attribute that to fear combined with outright stupidity.  American mainstream news organizations are complicit in keeping the truth from stupid Americans, but the truth, nevertheless, has been available.  Americans were too lazy to find it.  Watching Fox News was easier.  And so they did.  And so they were misinformed.

Bush has NO interest in the US, other than the accumulation of more wealth for the wealthiest Americans.  Even though Osama bin Laden was hiding out in Afghanistan, even though Pakistan was and is the caldron of Islamic extremism, Bush attacked Iraq.  For oil.  Not for "peace."  That fact has been firmly established.  Yet, he persists in prolonging this ruinous, murderous war. 

The man is an outrage, an abomination and the very definition of a fascist.

What is more scandalous, however, is the complicity of the US Congress.  An aggregation of political opportunists whose votes are cast not on principle or intelligent debate, but on the outcome of "focus groups" and marketing research.  American politicians, like politicians everywhere today, view re-election as their true vocation -- not legislation or acting as custodians of The Constitution.  Every vote, every innane word uttered, is calculated to attract voter support.  Their goal is to ferret out the political trends floating about this absurd, under-educated country and then transform that data into political platforms.  Original thinking or reformists strategies are a political curse.  They lose voters.  The goal is to seduce them.  To perpetuate their time in office. 

Hlllary Clinton is a classic case.  Once she was a supporter of Bush's immoral and absurd war on Iraq.  That was because the Christian majority -- so intent in fomenting its own "jihad" against Islamic terrorists -- wanted a war.  Those who proclaim to follow the Ten Commandments.  Those who profess that God said "Thou shalt not kill!" were the core voting group urging death to terrorists.  What they got, however, was death for the Iraqis and their own fellow Americans.

But soon enough, this same Christian group grew dispirited over their sons and daughters returning home in body bags with a war that looked unwinnable.  The housing boom was over.  Prices were rising.  The good, war-mongering times were coming to their inevitable end.  They grew bored and irritated with their Holy War.  Hillary listened and saw the tide (and votes) shifting.  She now, miraculously, opposes the war.  She is the quintessential modern politician.  An opportunist.  A human who would inspire men like Cicero to rise from the dead and speak out against her kind of public prostitution.

But Americans love this game.  They love their hypocrisy.  They love their facism.  It allows them to deny rights to homosexuals, to despise and inhibit immigrants to this country and to continue to reassert Christian "values," which, of course, are not Christian at all.  Christ did not teach that anyone had the right to discriminate against another.  Christ was "Good News."  The Gospel that erased the prejudices of the Old Testament and ushered in an age of true tolerance, and preached the true revelation that God was an entity NOT to be feared, but loved.   

But American "Christians" actually reject that Christ.  The true Christ.  They prefer the Old Testament and its damnations against the different; the biogoted St. Paul of the histrionic attacks against women and homosexuals; the pathetic, raving St. John of Revelations, clearly under the sway of a terrifying psychotic disorder.  But American Christians love this "revelation" because it is steeped in violent imagery and the promise of punishment to all those not Christian.

It's a sad country America has become under Bush.  He gained his current power through fear -- after, of course, he and his brother Jeb in Florida (with the help of the conservative US Supreme Court) stole the election from Al Gore.  But, then he was lucky enough to have 9/11 occur and he used "fear" to capitalize on his growing power.  Fear of the Infidel.  Fear of the Terrorist.  Just as Hitler used fear of Russia in 1929 to organize his Nazi Party.

And the irony of this fear of the Infidel is founded on US policy that has de-stabilized Middle Eastern cultures for decades for the purpose of securing a steady supply of oil.  Yes, oil.  Not freedom.  The US empowered and enabled Osama bin Laden.  The CIA channeled millions of dollars to him in his earlier war against Russia in Afghanistan.  The US, through its stupid, mercenary policies created the "terrorist."  It is time for America and its allies to acknowledge this.  If not, the world is condemned to a horrific future.  The Infidel, American "Christians," must be forgiven.  The "other cheek" must be turned.  If you want peace.  But, you don't.  You want supremacy.   

I'm ashamed to be an American.  And enraged to say that I am ashamed. 

Do you think Scotland would take me?

I now, respectfully, turn the floor over to others.   

[ahinton]

It's hard to argue with, or add to, any of the above and I commend you, cmg, for expressing it with such articulacy. Sorabji used to say that fascism was anyone else's fascism but his own. What we appear to have here is attempts at fascism by the back door, although they are evidently still of sufficiently transparency to warrant this book, the newspaper article and your comments on it.

Best,

Alistair

[counterpoint]

things are falling apart all over the globe.  i believe that President Bush may be the last US President to take a stand against facism in it's truest sense.  the United Nations. 

pianistimo, you are a very nice person and I know, you would not do any person knowingly harm. But what you are writing here is so unbelievable... You can't be serious, do you? 

[prongated]

President Bush merely wants to look after the USA.

...is that not his justification for 'collateral damage'?

[prometheus]

The UN is fascism in it's truest form?


The UN has no power at all. It's just a place where countries talk about solving international problems.



I don't think Pianistimo is a nice person. If you truly have the beliefs she has then it is impossible to be nice according to what I consider nice. Sure, she is trying to be nice. But hey morals are just way off. Plus, her world view is totally twisted and distorted anyway.

So, if she tries to be nice she will achieve the opposite.

[pianistimo]

the union of the united states was under the constitution.  laws are what determine if facism can get hold.  you're all just angry because president bush didn't let terrorists rule for the time being.  what do you want - more buildings like the twin towers falling.  bridges collapsing.  people shot right and left.  this happens in places around the world (to many to mention) when factions cannot agree and might wins over brains.

you may think that some of President Bush's decisions are bad for the world - but what about what the world has planned for us?  does it escape your mind that before the war in iraq that us army bunkers were blown up in beiruit?  that people were being abducted tortured and beheaded?  that major terrorist acts have occurred with multiple planes in many places.  that 9/11 happened.  are you AMERICAN?

not everyone that speaks as a friend is a friend.  these are dangerous times.  you have two choices that are both just as evil as the other.  do nothing.  do something.  President Bush has chosen to do something.  now - people complain because of civilian casualties - while at the same time harboring terrorists.  they play both sides of the fence because WHY? the UN let them get away with it.  now - isn't there a plan in there somehow that allows countries to destroy themselves from within so the UN can truly put a force in to 'keep the peace.' 

we're talking about WORLD DOMINATION now.  the US is going down and europe is rising.  but - will this lead to peace in the world.  the bible says no.  why?  because the UN laws are not based on the biblical precepts that man has 'inalienable rights.'  do you think President Bush spies by wiretapping to find terrorists bad?  try the governments that do it for no reason at all except to control their population.  russia, china, and now europe.  do you think people are not spied on in europe constantly.  well, for that matter - any country.  what happens to this information?

WHAT IS GOING ON IN BRUSSELS? the configuring of a dead roman empire - come to life again.

[prometheus]

Sadly, Europe isn't rising. There will be no new European empire.

It's just the US empire that is looking unstable.

[pianistimo]

that was a wishful thought 20 years ago.  now - all banks look to brussels.  they are all in deep doodoo.  just last week a bank in london almost collapsed because a lot of clients of one particular bank decided to pull out their savings.  who will be behind bailouts soon?  it's a trade - we'll give you money if you don't fight our rules and impositions.

they have an agenda.  one is to get countries to agree to a gun control ruling.  hmm.  wonder why they tried that on the US last year.  everything is for a price.  human rights - do they mention that they don't really want property rights to be considered from a common law standpoint.  why?  because it's easier for government to take land that way.  families who have owned land for generations - what does that mean to the UN?  it's all about POLICY.  they are robots.

you know why you don't like me prometheus.  because i'll live and die here.  my blood can spill - but, it's for a good cause.

[mephisto]

What is all this negativity about Fox news? Can someone inform me?

[pianistimo]

how about the article published in Stern magazine that quote alan greenspan as telling us that the euro will soon replace the dollar?  do we have two systems working simultaneously right now?  yes!  i think so.  it's called the 'new world order.'

now if people decide to stand up to it - is it surprising that people get 'knocked off' by some kind of random deed?  frankly - i'd rather have that happen than be policed.  we are used to being free.  FREE.

news channels tell you what they want to.  people get paid to talk.  but, if you want to know prophecy - look in your bible.  this is a ressurrection of a third 'reich' or 'world order.'  it seems that it will bring peace and prosperity to the entire world - but at a cost.  the plans are so far matured - that noone can really stop it now.  excepting God after the 3 1/2 year point.  this may sound crazy - but implementation of this new world order could happen in very little time.  everything is set up.  it won't be a surprise to those working in each country who are for the system.  or people in government who are forced to go along.  although - i wouldn't doubt that regrets will be had.  it's just that the system was implemented 50 years ago and couldn't be stopped because it was a matter of banking.

[prometheus]

Euro replacing the dollar has not so much to do about it.

The European monetary union has no army, no foreign policy and nothing like that.


Europe is not a country. We all are friends that disagree with each other. Citizens don't want an European empire either.


Plus, the US still has the biggest economy, the biggest military and if they lose first place it will be to China.

[pianistimo]

things change.  our currency is held at 48% here as opposed to 39% euro.  why?  because people see that the dollar has lost value and are trading.  also, the only way we now get low interest rates is to bail.  even that hasn't helped our terrible crisis with foreclosures.  this has been a year and a half problem if not longer.

these things are not discussed on the news.  that is so people cannot debate.  it's already decided for us. 

we have hit a 28 year low of dollar to gold standard.  it doesn't take long for collapses to happen.  i think what is hoped is that the new system will be quickly implemented and no real burdens felt - temporarily.

ps i don't think it matters to those in power what citizens think. 

btw - this may be controversial - but the pope IS facist.  he held 2007 or 22nd 'world youth day' in cologne (many chinese - up to 120 passed through the vatican on their way there.  ages 18-20).  did you know many many jews from cologne were killed in WWII in the holocaust.  why is this 'world youth day' being held THERE of all places.  this is idiotic and reprehensible of this evil man.  he goes to jerusalem and declares 'peace' while in his heart there is war.

some don't know that pope benedict was in the hitler regime until it collapsed near the end of WWII.  he knows more than he lets on.  he says - we want to keep peace in the world - but at a catholic cost.  i do not trust this man. he wants power - just like all the rest.  study how hitler created his 'youth' program and compare it.  it's simply a religious model now.  under the guise of peaceful religion.  this is like eating a bar of soap.

'custody' of the holy land - is the pope's term to use for this address to 'world youth day.' 

[pianistimo]

2008 world youth day will focus on the 'love of one's neighbor'  and acts of charity.  read this first:

https://www.cathnews.com/news/302/115.php  note that the pope's OWN draft would have still taken measures against the jews and that was the reason it wasn't published.  they say the truth from their own mouths.

interestingly, this pope was possibly murdered - though not until after he signed the 'lateran treaty' with mussolini.  then, on the eve of hitler's march into prague - the new pope amazingly was crowned that very evening (march 12).  timing?  or coincidence?
https://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/hitlers.htm

ok what i am saying is that history repeats itself.  we have the formation of another 'holy roman empire.'  large blocks of religious masses with large block of european nation states.  now - for the normal citizen just going about doing their own thing - it means nothing.  but to historians it is a great curiousity and a possible bad wind for democracy.

what to do?  trust God not human governments.  just do what you are led to do with daily prayer.  after all - the bible says 'pray that you be accounted worthy to escape all these things.'  what things?  not just the destruction of the temple in ad 70.  Jesus is answering the question that the disciples ask about 'the end of the ages' (matt 24:3-23+).  the end of the ages.  what is today, possibly.  and interestingly - Christ makes reference to 'false Christs.'  'if anyone says to you, behold, here is the Christ,' or 'there He is,' do not believe Him.   

now, why would anyone with modern thought believe this anyways?  revelations says that great power will be given to a certain man and that he will be able to perform 'great signs'   rev. 13:13 - so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.  it has been said this was already performed by one pope - in that lightening struck in the center of the grounds near the basilica during a speech.  i can't remember the source - but i can find it.  'and he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast (the nations - world order) who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  (ressurrected empire).

[term]

Citizens don't want an European empire either.

Who cares what they want, they get what they deserve or whatever is decided and they'll see afterwards.

@Cologne: there is no city in germany where jews did not die. So pretty useless comment. 
@pope: He was a nazi? Where do you know from? And what does that say about his current political orientation?

Sadly, Europe isn't rising. There will be no new European empire.

Sadly? That's fantastic. I wouldn't like to see Europe in a leading role, since all superpowers tend to abuse their power.

[pianistimo]

https://www.isthatlegal.org/archives/2006/05/the_popes_disas.html

this is not only dangerous ideology for jews but also christians.  the vatican II issues statements that say basically that only through the catholic faith can christians be saved.  what about Jesus Christ?  He is our Lord.  no pope can absolve a piece of lint off your shirt.

interestingly, UN has a 'one world youth project,'  too.  including school curriculum.
https://www.oneworldyouthproject.org/millennium.html

[term]

These are accusations, no firm basis.
The whole article is finest Ratzinger-bashing, and although i do not like him, i don't buy that article either. (not everything)
I'm quite surprised how fast you make up your mind on such an article, and suddenly come up with a statement like the pope is fascist. What the ....?   
I understand he's not popular in the usa, but that's no excuse you know...

sorry for offtopic...

[thalbergmad]

Slowly descending into religious thread.

Tambo banging alert stage 1.

Thal

[ahinton]

ok what i am saying is that history repeats itself.  we have the formation of another 'holy roman empire.'  large blocks of religious masses with large block of european nation states.  now - for the normal citizen just going about doing their own thing - it means nothing.  but to historians it is a great curiousity and a possible bad wind for democracy.

You keep on saying this, Susan - it's almost becoming a mantra - but I cannot see where the evidence for any such thing lies. The EC has been going for quite a few years now and its membership has indeed expanded to the present 27 nations and will doubtless expand again. However, as I have observed previously, less than half (12, to be precise) of its member states use the Euro (the states that don't are the last 12 to join + Denmark, Sweden and UK). Member states include quite a wide variety of governmental and political structures, those three non-Euro countries and the Netherlands, for example, having monarchies. By no means all European countries are members of EU in any case; those that are non-members include, Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, Turkey and suchever parts of Russia as may be deemed to be European. Furthermore, it is worth bearing in mind that there are quite a few more, not less, European nations now than was the case a quarter of a century ago and it is not entirely beyond the bounds of possibility that UK may eventually fragment into four separate units in the same way as Yugoslavia did. None of the above strikes me as being suggestive of the establishment of a holy or unholy Roman or other European Empire.

what to do?  trust God not human governments.  just do what you are led to do with daily prayer.  after all - the bible says 'pray that you be accounted worthy to escape all these things.'  what things?  not just the destruction of the temple in ad 70.  Jesus is answering the question that the disciples ask about 'the end of the ages' (matt 24:3-23+).  the end of the ages.  what is today, possibly.  and interestingly - Christ makes reference to 'false Christs.'  'if anyone says to you, behold, here is the Christ,' or 'there He is,' do not believe Him.

Here you go again, offering a specific Christian-oriented solution to what you seem to perceive as a problem which not everyone will perceive in the same way in any case. Not trusting governments is indeed wise advice, but you must bear in mind that Europe includes many different kinds of Christian as well as many Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jews, agnostics and atheists; few even of those of any religious persuasion who believe in God would credit Him with running - or even seeking to run - the day-to-day affairs of state.

now, why would anyone with modern thought believe this anyways?  revelations says that great power will be given to a certain man and that he will be able to perform 'great signs'   rev. 13:13 - so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men.  it has been said this was already performed by one pope - in that lightening struck in the center of the grounds near the basilica during a speech.  i can't remember the source - but i can find it.  'and he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast (the nations - world order) who had the wound of the sword and has come to life.  (ressurrected empire).

But this is all allegory/fantasy/poetry/prophecy, etc. rather than hard provable historical fact, whereas both the expansion of the EC and the fragmentation of certain European nation states in recent years are hard provable historical facts.

Best,

Alistair

[cmg]

Pianistimo, would you please go back and read again the Naomi Wolf article that appeared in "The Guardian"?  The one that inspired THIS thread?  The one that Walter Ramsey made available to us in the link?

You have yet to address the points she raises regarding the ominous rise of fascism in America under the Bush administration.  She presents the case clearly and logically and documents her observations thoroughly.

Would you kindly address her points and then offer a rebuttal based on the evidence she presents?

If you will re-read her piece, you will see that neither the UN, the Pope, the euro, Belgium or Christ figure into her well-presented argument. 

She raises 10 points.  Take each one on and tell us where she is in error.  Please.

[pianistimo]

God doesn't run our modern world.  Satan does.  He did at the time of Christ and still does today - until Jesus returns as King.  of course, this is laughable for people who do not believe in the christian religion.  so - as you say - there are many others to choose from.  unfortunately, only one of the them can be truly right.  which one?  i think the one that stemmed from the disciples that Christ first gave the Holy Spirit to on the day of Pentecost.

they went underground and have remained persecuted.  they never came out 'on top' without freedom of expression in the last several hundred years.  in fact, one form of persecution is to not have access to a bible or to hearing the gospel (which happens in many nations).  not to mention real torture of christians.  the idea is now - with UNESCO - to prepare today's youth to accept any and every religion at the expense of their parents ideas.  it is a form of abuse of parental rights - to meddle in religion.

now - how is this done.  through education system curriculums and the library - which are now given mandates by the UN through various names but typically through a mandate given wayy back in 1949 that seemingly tolerated religion - but at the same time denied access to books which promoted the christian religion - and promoted
'everything but.'  this is seen to be the case with almost all GOVERNMENT GRANTS for educational purposes. if it is not christian - then the purpose is ok.  this is reverse discrimination and not what our founding fathers had in mind.

also - there is a mandated library policy from the UN and mandated curriculums with UNESCO world view for almost all government schools (no matter where you live).  if you don't believe me - look into the curriculum closely.  they are constantly being modified. why?  to add more and more seemingly tolerant viewpoints and gain nothing in terms of excellence.  the UN wants children and students worldwide NOT to have a mind OR excellence - but to be a pawn and agree to think as they tell them to. that means to diminish the library system and to diminish the curriculum to an average or sub-standard way.  if you aren't part of the 'in crowd' - you're out.  the 'in crowd' are those who accept a world view.  it's not particularly tolerant to christians.  in fact, one sees on a DAILY BASIS - discrimination of christians on campuses and public HS's and middle and elementary schools.  i believe they start in elementary by frowning upon behavior that isn't part of the status-quo.  the children do what is praised.

[pianistimo]

CMG, i have no desire to read trash.  anyone who speaks about NOT FIGHTING TERRORISM is dead in the head.  i don't care if she raised a million points.  did you ever see the tienamen square stand off.  one person can change a thousand views.  btw, i believe that angels can stop tanks (specifically the people driving them).  and, of course, being on public television would show that world views and facism and dictators always lead to people in real distress. not a few people.  the MAJORITY.

who is the real 'naiomi wolf' - perhaps a wolf in disguise. is this her real name or some journalistic name?  anyways - if it is her real name - i should first like to know her personal history.  after all - fair is fair.  did her forefathers fight in the american revolution?  does she have any personal interest in the USA?  does she believe in freedom of speech and for women's rights (which dictators often do not).  and i don't mean the right to be sexually promiscuous.  does she have any religion - or is she one of those people who criticizes the christian religion because she is for ONE WORLD SYSTEM.

i think people in free countries do not understand the privleges they've had of freedom and now that it's being taken away daily - i am apalled that noone notices.  would you willingly hand the UN every gun from the USA?  would you let them control our libraries and education system.  well, they already do.  did you know that.  now - the banks.  what else?  naomi is playing a little game of just simply moving minds now.  she doesn't have to do much - because the education system has done that for the last 25 years or so.  take a cal state history class.

[pianistimo]

while claiming she is for 'young patriots' in her book about fascism - she completely ignores the fact that most of her collegues in the lowell forensic society are the real fascists.  controlling what upper colleges such as yale teach to students.  she is merely speaking out of both sides of her mouth.  she sees the one world system - writes a book about it - and then teaches according to their educational curriculum.  wierd.  let's not talk about women and lesbianism - which is a main tenent of the new world religion (or lack of it).  'promiscuities' and 'misconceptions' are two of her other books that are supposedly a 'must read.' 

i don't really care about those 'must read's.'  i can think for myself.

did you know that this clash with the world's government and Jesus Christ's own government is prophecied?  that is because the systems are corrupt on earth.  everywhere - there is corruption.  what is truth.  God's word is truth.  enjoy the ride for the next few years - but just know - christians will be ressurrected. 

[cmg]

CMG, i have no desire to read trash.  anyone who speaks about NOT FIGHTING TERRORISM is dead in the head.  i don't care if she raised a million points. 

Okay.

[thalbergmad]

OK, who started Mrs Mental off again?

She was doing OK for a couple of days. She is now going to have to book some more sessions with her shrink.

People that are suffering from her kind of condition deserve our pity and support.

Try not to wind her up and have some compassion for the feeble minded.

Thal

[pianistimo]

well, you may be pleased at another reason i do not find miss naomi wolf good reading.  that is because the 'politically correct' movement of today tells women they should be 'released' from men's expectations of beauty (but moreso how women should act).  it's often a double standard - agreed.  but, one shouldn't go by the sort of masonic orders that exist in places like yale and harvard.  not all men are this way.

the feminist view is that women should not have cultivation  and culture, compassion, tenderness, softness, romance, sweetness, gentleness - because they might be raped.  true that the internet has become a fast place for soft-porn and debassing of women - and that perhaps women ARE more likely to be raped for simply being attractive.  but, i do not think her book on beauty is really the issue.

perhaps the book should be focused on men.  how to be a gentleman.  that sort of went out the door a while back and i feel the cause of the downfall of society is not women's beauty  - but men's lack of understanding and caring.  to be truly caring.  there have been a repeat of about seven charactistics that define stages before divorce.  one is caring.  that the man becomes oblivious of the vow in marriage for 'cherish.'  and, perhaps the women for 'respect.'

[thalbergmad]

I would get help as soon as possible, that last post was complete nonsense.

Are you being serious, or are you trying to look like some kind of deluded imbescile?

If you are, i am fully convinced.

Thal

[cmg]

OK, who started Mrs Mental off again?

She was doing OK for a couple of days. She is now going to have to book some more sessions with her shrink.


Thal

Nice try, Thal, but she has "Beyond Shrinkage" stamped on her passport.

[pianistimo]

what is imbecilic about not liking the essence of what naomi wolf says.  are you saying that just because there are rapists out there that ALL men are.  or just because a woman is beautiful means that she should have to watch out and de-beautify? 

the power of a woman IS her beauty.  should she dress in the latest fatigues and hide her figure?  i just think that walking like a man is ugly - if you are not a man.  just like a man pretending to walk or dress or act like a woman.

what woman has ever gained power from a man by acting like a man?  unless she hits him over the head and takes his clothes.  *admits the idea of facism has a certain 'glow' when one is angry over just causes.

[counterpoint]

WHAT IS GOING ON IN BRUSSELS? the configuring of a dead roman empire - come to life again.

pianistimo, sometimes you're so crazy 

[pianistimo]

ok.  tell me what's going on in brussels.  let's start with the central bank.

https://www.eubusiness.com/Finance/1187105536.23/  tell me they don't have a certain amount of real power now.  what will they do with it?  basically they can like who they will and spurn who they won't.

i will ride the turnip truck.  this is merely a situation faced with in the 30's.  downsize.  hang your laundry out to dry in the backyard.  plant a garden.  deal with crisis without giving in to anyone.  as i see it - why sell out?  we have an entire continent of airable plantable land.  sure - we may not be able to drive 50 miles anymore at the drop of a hat.  buy some horses.  of course, logistically we are now dealing with an immigrant flux that demands a lot of something or other.  i suppose that will sell us out right there.  forgetting that bank of america already has.

[thalbergmad]

HAHAHA, you gotta keep this up, i have just done my pants with laughter.

If you were just a bit more daft, you would need watering.

God, Jesus, Bible, Brussels, Bush, Naomi Wolf, Blah, Blah, Crap, Witter, Bilge.

You have got as many brain cells as a bed mite.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Nice try, Thal, but she has "Beyond Shrinkage" stamped on her passport.

Yes, she would require a whole conference to cope with her delusions.

Thal

[counterpoint]

ok.  tell me what's going on in brussels.  let's start with the central bank.

https://www.eubusiness.com/Finance/1187105536.23/  tell me they don't have a certain amount of real power now. 

The USA have so much power, and they misuse it in the most barefaced way -
and you talk about the "power" of the EU... Can't take such statements for anything other than bad jokes.

[pianistimo]

let's see who is laughing tommorrow.  i suppose that your life savings are safe?  or whatever young people call next month's paycheck.

counterpoint - we don't owe our government taxes now - because our government owes other countries.  we are basically paying our taxes to support whomever is supporting the government.  and, that is fast becoming the CENTRAL BANK.

find out for yourself what power we truly have.

[cmg]

You have got as many brain cells as a bed mite.

Thal

Correction:  a lesbian bed mite.

[thalbergmad]

i suppose that your life savings are safe? 

I ain't got any, i have spent the lot on scores and whores.

Thal

[cmg]

ok.  tell me what's going on in brussels.  let's start with the central bank.

https://www.eubusiness.com/Finance/1187105536.23/  tell me they don't have a certain

i will ride the turnip truck. 

But be careful this time, pianistimo.  You fell off that turnip truck the last time.

[pianistimo]

two very bad boys.  i am not sure what to make of the 'lesbian bed mite.'  i thought you would understand from what i wrote that i think that feminitity is more power than any sort of coughing, spitting, burping, and farting.

i happen to think that the world would be a much better place if we all just went back to biblical precepts.  i think they are simple but workable.  like space.  it doesn't have as much complexity and chaos as we think.  actually - quite ordered and precise and timely.  there's a calmness to it - because mankind hasn't wrecked it yet.  things follow a natural order.  if people for one thing - stopped spying on each other and minded their own business - that would be a huge bonus.

a one world system demands spies all the time keeping track of other people.  what for?  a time waster!

[cmg]

a one world system demands spies all the time keeping track of other people.  what for?  a time waster!

What for?  Why, to keep your Yale buddy George Bush in control of his Fascist State known as Amerika!  That's what for!

[thalbergmad]

i happen to think that the world would be a much better place if we all just went back to biblical precepts. 

I totally agree.

I would write more, but i am in the process of sacrificing my goat.

Thal

[cmg]

I totally agree.

I would write more, but i am in the process of sacrificing my goat.

Thal

Yeh, and I'm busy taking an eye for an eye -- right now, just about everyone in my neighborhood is blind.  I'll get around to the teeth part when the price of dentures drops.  But, of course, that price is controlled by the Satanic Central Bank. 

[thalbergmad]

Sorry old chap, can't stop to talk.

Just murdering my brother then i am gonna go out and stone some prozzies.

See ya later.

Thal

[thalberg]

My question is this--who can I vote for in 2008 that will stop the erosion of our rights?  What else can I as a citizen do to resist the rise of fascism?

[pianistimo]

elect someone who is not a national?  chavez?

how about poland and the recent bout of crit from the EU about already reaching their quotas on codfishing?  how would you like to be fined or some punitive thing done because you caught one fish too many according to some defined quota.  i'm not a violent person - but messing with a country's fishing is going too far.

how would you like a president that gave all his rights and powers to the EU  as the next one WILL DO openly.  i'd say - a traitor.  do you not think all these next supposed candidants are not 99% in favor of a one world system.  do you see ross perot on the ticket or ralph nadar.  why not?  can't get people who are honest on the ticket?  money and scams are too involved?  not from the correct university?  have the US's interests in mind.

what about the so-called 'third party' candidate.  will there BE one?  if not - why not?  do they already give in?  do they know something we don't know?

[ahinton]

God doesn't run our modern world.  Satan does.  He did at the time of Christ and still does today - until Jesus returns as King.

What make you say that either of them "runs our modern world"? Where is the evidence?

of course, this is laughable for people who do not believe in the christian religion.  so - as you say - there are many others to choose from.  unfortunately, only one of the them can be truly right.  which one?  i think the one that stemmed from the disciples that Christ first gave the Holy Spirit to on the day of Pentecost.

As you well know, I was not baptised or raised as a Christian and I am not a Christian (though I am also not anti-Christian) - but I'm not laughing...

they went underground and have remained persecuted.  they never came out 'on top' without freedom of expression in the last several hundred years.  in fact, one form of persecution is to not have access to a bible or to hearing the gospel (which happens in many nations).  not to mention real torture of christians.  the idea is now - with UNESCO - to prepare today's youth to accept any and every religion at the expense of their parents ideas.  it is a form of abuse of parental rights - to meddle in religion.

Sorry, Susan, but this is neither true nor fair - even to Christians. Denying acces to the Bible is indeed unacceptable, just as is denying access to the Qu'ran, the Talmud, etc. No one here is, I am sure, condoning the torture of Christians anywhere. The idea of expecting people to accept any and every religion is surely not as unacceptable, however, especially when one remembers how any and every truly devout Muslim expects acceptance of Christ and his teachings. "Abuse of parental rights"? Nonsense! My parents exercised their right not to involve me in any religion and I exercised mine to explore what there was around when I felt I was sufficiently mentally able to do so; do you see that as an "abuse of rights" or at least in some sense analogous thereto?

now - how is this done.  through education system curriculums and the library - which are now given mandates by the UN through various names but typically through a mandate given wayy back in 1949 that seemingly tolerated religion - but at the same time denied access to books which promoted the christian religion - and promoted
'everything but.'  this is seen to be the case with almost all GOVERNMENT GRANTS for educational purposes. if it is not christian - then the purpose is ok.  this is reverse discrimination and not what our founding fathers had in mind.

By "your founding fathers" you are of course talking about America - which, I admit, is on topic - but whatever America's "founding fathers" might have thought at the time of foundation is hardly on message for the present day when there are so many religions and non-religious instances across America; America now has far more immigrants from far more cultures than was the case in the days of the "founding fathers".

also - there is a mandated library policy from the UN and mandated curriculums with UNESCO world view for almost all government schools (no matter where you live).  if you don't believe me - look into the curriculum closely.  they are constantly being modified. why?  to add more and more seemingly tolerant viewpoints and gain nothing in terms of excellence.  the UN wants children and students worldwide NOT to have a mind OR excellence - but to be a pawn and agree to think as they tell them to. that means to diminish the library system and to diminish the curriculum to an average or sub-standard way.  if you aren't part of the 'in crowd' - you're out.  the 'in crowd' are those who accept a world view.  it's not particularly tolerant to christians.  in fact, one sees on a DAILY BASIS - discrimination of christians on campuses and public HS's and middle and elementary schools.  i believe they start in elementary by frowning upon behavior that isn't part of the status-quo.  the children do what is praised.

I am sure that you realise that I am wholly against anti-Christian attitudes and policies and also that I deprecate all mind-numbing practices that discourage people from having their own reasoning and decision-making processes and principles and exercising their intellectual and emotional capacities, but I still find most of what you write about this kind of thing to be far too one-sided.

Best,

Aliistair

[cmg]

My question is this--who can I vote for in 2008 that will stop the erosion of our rights?  What else can I as a citizen do to resist the rise of fascism?

Great question, blintz, so let's begin by looking at people we can actually TRUST:

1)  blintz.  It would solve his career problem for at least eight years, but he's too young.

2) Alistair and Thal -- aliens.  don't qualify

3) pianowolfi.  Congenitally neutral since he's Swiss; plus, he's Swiss

4) Walter Ramsey.  Good choice, but he's actually Claude Frank's "evil twin."  Too confounding.

That leaves us with pianistimo!!  Great choice, if you want to live in a back-to-Biblical epoch where we'd all be hanging out in yurts, milking goats, plucking out eyes and teeth and watching her totter around in Manola Blahnik high heels just to underscore the fact that girls can be pretty around boys without being sexually assaulted.

I ain't voting.

[pianistimo]

it may confound you, cmg, that i would never seek to be president in the first place (or wear extremely high heels which are bad for women's backs and should never have been invented).  and besides, it is a shadowmaking job for any  man or woman who seeks it now. 

you might laugh at what i say - but, i am merely making the point that sacrifices have been made in every world war.  if one does not sacrifice - one simply gives in.  do you want others to rule you?

would you like not only being ticketed by the state police on your driving - but the EU on what you say on the phone?  if you think president bush is bad - wait until people are met with police who merely knock them off or send them to reforming camps to work as food producers.  i suppose that it still sounds sci-fi - but it's not that far off.  the EU is really into making profits on these 'punitive' things.

how about if you got married and wanted more than 2 children?  reforms will be typically un-christian.  we are used to holding land.  do you think that will be a major right?  the EU wants all free borders in the 10 newest nations before Christmas of this year.  for travel to be available for anyone to enter a country (without it's own border police deciding who enters).  bad bad idea.

and, as mentioned before - don't think you will be able to freely fish or do anything without being watched and quota'd.  we'll have so many rules in a few years that facism will look like a pretty word.

[ahinton]

CMG, i have no desire to read trash.  anyone who speaks about NOT FIGHTING TERRORISM is dead in the head.

This bizarre end empty notion of "the war on terrrr" that your country's darling George Walter Wotsisname habitually reitaretes like a mantra is just that - a bizarre and empty notion. You can no more "fight" "terrorism" that you can "fight fires - a concept that I'd have though your country would traditionally have understood and accepted better than UK, since what your country more sensibly calls the "fire department" is still absurdly known in UK as the "fire brigade", as though a fighting force rather than an emergency service. By so saying, I am not, of course, defending any acts of terrorism on the people of your nation or those of any other nations including Iraq and Afghanistan (please note the subtext), but dealing with this admittedly massive problem successfully and sustainably simply does not admit of warlike sentiment or action and we've surely all seen already that this kind of attitudinising gets no one anywhere. We have first to understand all the motivations of and pressures upon each and every person that commits acts of what can reasonably be defined as terrorism, but at the same time we should not be blinded by the term "terrorism" into the assumption that it is some kind of conceptual entity entirely separate from criminality as it is already understood. I am not at all seeking to simplify - or advocate the simplification of - the issues surrounding what we currently call "terrorism" - rather to try to get things into a more sensible and practical perspective and promote a realisation that any kind of "eye for an eye" "solution", far from being any kind of solution to anything whatsoever, is merely a means whereby to gouge out a whole lot of eyes and no more.

i don't care if she raised a million points.  did you ever see the tienamen square stand off.  one person can change a thousand views.

One person may indeed be capable incertain circumstances of doing just that, even if he/she couldn't change your spelling habits!

btw, i believe that angels can stop tanks (specifically the people driving them).

Now you're sounding like pianistimo, Susan; stop tanks doing what? This is just silly.

who is the real 'naiomi wolf' - perhaps a wolf in disguise. is this her real name or some journalistic name?  anyways - if it is her real name - i should first like to know her personal history.  after all - fair is fair.  did her forefathers fight in the american revolution?  does she have any personal interest in the USA?  does she believe in freedom of speech and for women's rights (which dictators often do not).  and i don't mean the right to be sexually promiscuous.  does she have any religion - or is she one of those people who criticizes the christian religion because she is for ONE WORLD SYSTEM.

I am not going to assess Ms Wolf for anyone here; each reader has to make up his/her own mind. Some other pieces that she has published are a good deal more suspect than this one, I think - but that is strictly my own personal opinion.

i think people in free countries do not understand the privleges they've had of freedom and now that it's being taken away daily - i am apalled that noone notices.  would you willingly hand the UN every gun from the USA?  would you let them control our libraries and education system.  well, they already do.  did you know that.  now - the banks.  what else?  naomi is playing a little game of just simply moving minds now.  she doesn't have to do much - because the education system has done that for the last 25 years or so.  take a cal state history class.

I agree entirely with your first point here, but I do not agree with you over the gun issue because that applies only to your country, which I nevertheless realise is the thrust of the thread topic, but in this case one should surely also consider what to apply in countries that do not have the automatic right to bear arms as yours largely does - what, for example, about the right NOT to bear arms? The banking situation is, like so much else, becoming much more international and interdependent, but that's the way things go; this fact, however, doesn't necessarily of itself signify the onset of world government, especially given the national fragmentation of which i wrote earlier. One might indeed think that these two things are progressing in concurrent opposition and, as such, are making life everywhere much more complex rather than verring towards the comparative simplicity of an overbearing global governmental régime.

For all that I disagree fundamentally with a lot of what you write, I'm nevertheless pleased that you do at least air what you think, as long as it is at least reasonably free from specific religious bias.

Best,

Alistair