i have returned from pf gitmo

[gyzzzmo]

Responding to your previous post first, I would say that G-d has been largely ignored in politics because our government has chosen not to include Him in education. 

----------------------------

No laws to protect them.  The Constitution protects our right to property.  Not worrying about intellectual property for the moment but actual property! 
----------------
I don't see the issue of color because some believe that Jesus Christ will be the one to work out the details of equality.  Some find more hope for it in the Muslim faith.  I would like to just say that as a Christian we do share a lot of values in reality.  The ideals of having a common ancestor (Abraham) who was a faithful man in all ways to G-d gives us a common hope and destiny.  G-d is not impartial.  Just like a garden - he has firstfruits. 
-----------------------------
Hussein wants the same things as Bin-Laden.  The destruction of America and Israel.  Why both?  Because they stand for Torah.  The laws of G-d - and he felt justified in punishing us, much like Iraq and other places because they know that we have broken the laws of G-d and they say it openly.  That G-d himself will punish us through them. Malcom-X has also said this.
--------------------------
I suppose that what I stand for isn't really republican, independent, or anything like that.  I do think that Jesus Christ will return shortly, so in the sense of world peace - communism - whatever! we may have a 'form' of peace at a cost to this world.  Also, I believe that Christians will suffer greatly for their beliefs.  This is prophecied in the bible to happen because of lawlessness.  The basis for law is the bible. Until people recognize that - there won't be any law that is truly just.  Then, G-d will give us a comparison of the two ways.

There are very good reasons to seperate politics and religion. These are fundamentals of democracy and i think you know why, no need to bring Muslim and Christian example where this went very wrong.
-----------------
Your constitution allows people to protect their property with weapons. And that is the problem and that is one of the reasons why the constitution should be changed.
------------------
Detailes of equality? Equality = equality. Details means that there isnt equality. Firstfruits? Again an implication that not everybody is equal. According to the Bible, Jesus and God themselves said that everybody is equal.
--------------------
This part of your reply is just total crap, no sense at all and not worth replying to.
---------------------

About lawfullness and your bible.....
You say that the bible should be the basis for law. How on earth can you be thinking this? The bible itself is full of contradictions about what is right and wrong!

[thalbergmad]

I do not understand why people are wasting their energy in debating with this retard.

I refuse to get involved.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

I do not understand why people are wasting their energy in debating with this retard.

I refuse to get involved.

Thal

I suppose i'm just bored now and then 

[pianistimo]

There is a picture of Moses in the Supreme Court, holding the ten commandments.  The ten commandments are listed on the back of the Supreme Court doors when you shut them.  You can't say 'the bible isn't a part of law.'   The bible IS G-d's law.  Especially the part where Moses is given ten simple commandments to give to the children of Israel.  How did we end up with them in our Court?  Because we are children of Abraham and his children and their children down through the centuries passed them on.  In the bible, the 'covenant' peoples also made this covenant by circumcision.  Nowdays that passe.  But, only several years ago circumcision was done routinely in hospitals here and even until now we have moses blanket for newborns.  Do you think this symbol goes unnoticed by other nations who know who we are? - namely Israel, Egypt, and other Arab nations.  They understand that in ancient middle-eastern customs it was a symbol or an act of covenant.  They know our ancestors (and you can trace a lot of our DNA to Egypt through Joseph and Aseneth and Israel by the twelve tribes whom only one or two - judah and levi are the jews!)  We have an obelisk in NYC central park which explains 'isrir' on it.  Isrir is Israel and Israel went out from Egypt and became a nation and company of nations just as G-d said.  Our history is in the bible.  We don't even know, today, where we came from.   Why do we even HAVE the bible?  Because we are descendants of Israel.

Do you know the coronations of the Kings of Britain are similar to those that were given to King David - and the crown of Britain has 12 stones to symbolize the twelve tribes of Israel.  David's line is the Kingly line and even Judah is a part of it.  Now, some say - our country has no history with G-d.  WHAT?  WE have Abraham as our ancestor father and we say this?  Check out Scota, the queen who married Milesius (?) i think.  She is in the Kingly line.  And, also Tiya or Tea-Tephi.  You can see that not only was Solomon a descendant - but the whole idea of the temple is then passed on through people who want to imitate this - and 'templars' are all over the place in Scotland and now America.

All of  our forefathers were taught the basics of the bible when they were educated.  Abraham Lincoln was the foremost studied person on the bible and he decided that it was through G-d that we have true liberty.  And, he asked people to fast and pray.  He also, I believe, was the one to institute Thanksgiving as a holiday of thanks and prayer to G-d.   The people of Israel were to be a blessing to the rest of the world and through the redemption of Jesus Christ, all enter into the 'vine' by the blood of our Savior who died for us so that we can live apart from sin.  Sin is the breaking of the commandments.  Jesus Christ did not come to just save the jews.  He came to save the whole nation of Israel first.  And, then the entire world.  But, he is coming to the Mount of Olives first.   And, every eye will see him.  They will mourn because they did not recognize him and the Romans were the first to eliminate jews because JEsus Christ was jewish.  Then, they went after Christians.  How is this different to today?

[gyzzzmo]

There is a picture of Moses in the Supreme Court, holding the ten commandments.  The ten commandments are listed on the back of the Supreme Court doors when you shut them.  You can't say 'the bible isn't a part of law.'   The bible IS G-d's law.  Especially the part where Moses is given ten simple commandments to give to the children of Israel.  How did we end up with them in our Court?  Because we are children of Abraham and his children and their children down through the centuries passed them on.  In the bible, the 'covenant' peoples also made this covenant by circumcision.  Nowdays that passe.  But, only several years ago circumcision was done routinely in hospitals here and even until now we have moses blanket for newborns.  Do you think this symbol goes unnoticed by other nations who know who we are? - namely Israel, Egypt, and other Arab nations.  They understand that in ancient middle-eastern customs it was a symbol or an act of covenant.  They know our ancestors (and you can trace a lot of our DNA to Egypt through Joseph and Aseneth and Israel by the twelve tribes whom only one or two - judah and levi are the jews!)  We have an obelisk in NYC central park which explains 'isrir' on it.  Isrir is Israel and Israel went out from Egypt and became a nation and company of nations just as G-d said.  Our history is in the bible.  We don't even know, today, where we came from.   Why do we even HAVE the bible?  Because we are descendants of Israel.

Do you know the coronations of the Kings of Britain are similar to those that were given to King David - and the crown of Britain has 12 stones to symbolize the twelve tribes of Israel.  David's line is the Kingly line and even Judah is a part of it.  Now, some say - our country has no history with G-d.  WHAT?  WE have Abraham as our ancestor father and we say this?  Check out Scota, the queen who married Milesius (?) i think.  She is in the Kingly line.  And, also Tiya or Tea-Tephi.  You can see that not only was Solomon a descendant - but the whole idea of the temple is then passed on through people who want to imitate this - and 'templars' are all over the place in scotland and now America.

All of  our forefathers were taught the basics of the bible when they were educated.  Abraham Lincoln was the foremost studied person on the bible and he decided that it was through G-d that we have true liberty.  And, he asked people to fast and pray.  He also, I believe, was the one to institute Thanksgiving as a holiday of thanks and prayer to G-d.   The people of Israel were to be a blessing to the rest of the world and through the redemption of Jesus Christ, all enter into the 'vine' by the blood of our Savior who died for us so that we can live apart from sin.  Sin is the breaking of the commandments.  Jesus Christ did not come to just save the jews.  He came to save Israel first.  And, then the entire world.  But, he is coming to the Mount of Olives first.   And, every eye will see him.  They will mourn because they did not recognize him and the Romans were the first to eliminate jews because JEsus Christ was jewish.  Then, they went after Christians.  How is this different to today?

Alot of blabla, maybe's, opinions and other rubbish.
All this crap youre replying here is your crap, so dont bring it like its common knowledge or generally accepted. There's no way of discussing the things you reply here because it is based on nothing, a mere fantasy of yours. You want to discuss? Bring facts, not rubbish like this.

Gyzzzmo

[pianistimo]

Gyzzmo, if it is 'crap' why are multiple factoral history books backing it up?  You cannot just blindly say - the bible has no history.  The people of America have no G-d.  You have no right, especially if you do not live here and even know the first thing about our history.

Do you know how our country started and how many miraculous things happened to allow this?  There were several point blank miracles and that if they hadn't happened - we wouldn't be here today.  In our Declaration of Independence it states:

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'

Now, what communist country cares about happiness?  What communist country cares about owning property?  Do property and guns go together.  According to the founders of our country they really do!

In America these rights are guaranteed under law:  the right of free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion.  People came here to be FREE.  Free of tyranny and oppression.  Pennsylvania is a good state to study, Gyzzmo  because it blows your theories out of the water even more than any other state.

[pianistimo]

I don't want to start a full blown war over religion - so, I'll just defer to a little history of our state Pennsylvania (based upon the religion of the Quakers).  Remember quaker oatmeal?  Well, that's an honest man on there.  The Quakers did not believe that one person could be more important than another.  Therefore, they would not show more respect for one person than another...although the quakers were a very peaceful group of people, no other groups welcomed them.  They were arrested for their beliefs in England.  Some who went to the colonies were beaten and treated worse than they had been in England. 

A young man by the name of William Penn became curious about Quaker beliefs.  Wanting to find out more about these people, he attended their meetings.  William Penn liked what he heard and it wasn't long before he became a Quaker, too.  William Penn's father was an admiral in the British navy and a good friend of the King of England.  He was quite angry when his son decided to become a Quaker.  His father hoped he'd be an important officer in the British navy, but Quakers didn't fight.  His father was well liked by the king, but now his son wouldn't show respect for the king (Quakers didn't take off their hats to anyone - and WIlliam Penn was 'dissed' for this one).  Quakers also didn't feel wealth was important. 

Try as he might, William Penn's father could not change his son's mind.  After his father died, Penn remember that the king had borrowed a large sum of money from his father and had never paid it back.  Penn knew that the king would never give him, a Quaker, the money.  But, he did end up giving him a Charter to begin a colony for the Quakers - and that is because Penn had the forethought to ask for it!  The king was pleased with the idea and at the same time rid England of the 'troublesome' quakers.  Pennsylvania was originally called 'Penn's Woods.'

Philadelphia is also called 'the City of Brotherly Love.'  This is an example of faith in American history.  This is also an example of courage without guns.  The Quakers basically had G-d protect them multiple times throughout history.

For those who willingly serve our country and DO fight - I also say 'bravo.'  They can remember Nathaniel Hale, a handsome young schoolteacher from Connecticut.  He witnessed the defeat of the Americans at NYC and saw that people would have to fight hard for their freedom.  He volunteered for a dangerous mission behind enemy lines - attempting to find out what the British were going to do next.  He knew he could be executed as a spy if he were caught.  However he was not worried about his own life and set out on his mission.  Unfortunately, he was caught and condemned to death.  But, he wasn't a coward and did not beg for mercy or betray his country.  The last words he spoke before he was executed were these:  'I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.'

[gyzzzmo]

Gyzzmo, if it is 'crap' why are multiple factoral history books backing it up?  You cannot just blindly say - the bible has no history.  The people of America have no G-d.  You have no right, especially if you do not live here and even know the first thing about our history.

Do you know how our country started and how many miraculous things happened to allow this?  There were several point blank miracles and that if they hadn't happened - we wouldn't be here today.  In our Declaration of Independence it states:

'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.'

Now, what communist country cares about happiness?  What communist country cares about owning property?  Do property and guns go together.  According to the founders of our country they really do!

In America these rights are guaranteed under law:  the right of free speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, freedom of religion.  People came here to be FREE.  Free of tyranny and oppression.  Pennsylvania is a good state to study, Gyzzmo  because it blows your theories out of the water even more than any other state.

I'm not saying the Bible has no history. There very likely was some bearded fellow who got alot of backup in a revolt about 2000 years ago. And indeed alot of 'factoral' history books do back this up. But they arent backing up the things you are saying here, like "Jesus will come back". Thats the crap that you make up yourself or got from a very untrustworthy sources. And there is no way of discussing that crap, because its your crap.

So far about the first 'crap' part.

And America started like any other country: Wars and diplomacy. Nothing miraculous about that.
And about communism.... Does capitalism care more about happiness?
Property and guns go together? I think YOU are the one who lacks knowledge about your country and its history. Start comparing crime-rate and gun-involved violence with other western countries and maybe you start understanding what i'm talking about. Private guns dont go together with humankind.
Your Pennsylvania thing is especially funny, since you obviously have to set one state as an example, where it goes 'less worse' than in other states, and how would this contradict my 'theory' (did i have a theory?).

Gyzzzmo

[gyzzzmo]

I don't want to start a full blown war over religion - so, I'll just defer to a little history of our state Pennsylvania (based upon the religion of the Quakers).  Remember quaker oatmeal?  Well, that's an honest man on there.  The Quakers did not believe that one person could be more important than another.  Therefore, they would not show more respect for one person than another...although the quakers were a very peaceful group of people, no other groups welcomed them.  They were arrested for their beliefs in England.  Some who went to the colonies were beaten and treated worse than they had been in England. 

A young man by the name of William Penn became curious about Quaker beliefs.  Wanting to find out more about these people, he attended their meetings.  William Penn liked what he heard and it wasn't long before he became a Quaker, too.  William Penn's father was an admiral in the British navy and a good friend of the King of England.  He was quite angry when his son decided to become a Quaker.  His father hoped he'd be an important officer in the British navy, but Quakers didn't fight.  His father was well liked by the king, but now his son wouldn't show respect for the king (Quakers didn't take off their hats to anyone - and WIlliam Penn was 'dissed' for this one).  Quakers also didn't feel wealth was important. 

Try as he might, William Penn's father could not change his son's mind.  After his father died, Penn remember that the king had borrowed a large sum of money from his father and had never paid it back.  Penn knew that the king would never give him, a Quaker, the money.  But, he did end up giving him a Charter to begin a colony for the Quakers - and that is because Penn had the forethought to ask for it!  The king was pleased with the idea and at the same time rid England of the 'troublesome' quakers.  Pennsylvania was originally called 'Penn's Woods.'

Philadelphia is also called 'the City of Brotherly Love.'  This is an example of faith in American history.  This is also an example of courage without guns.  The Quakers basically had G-d protect them multiple times throughout history.

Another story here:

There was a religious girl in Norway that had to bring supper to her Granny. In the forest however she encountered a mean wolf and she told the wolf what she was about to do.
The wolf hurried to granny, ate her and later ate the girl too.
Luckily a hunter shot the wolf and managed to rescue both granny and the girl.

This is an example of courage with guns and how God protects his children, even if they got eaten by a hungry wolf.

[pianistimo]

Your theory is that a nation can be free by taking away it's citizens right to bear arms.  This is against the constitution and is ridiculous thinking.   Take a kindergarten class that is held hostage.  If the teacher had a gun - he/she could go out in the hall and blow the 18 year old to smithereens.  And, I'm not talking mercy here.  I'm talking just for myself.  How many of these very young terrorist crazies do we need?

And, how about college campuses?  Are you saying that one lone gunman should hold hostage an entire campus.

Gyzzmo, how old are you and do you want to take over the world or something?  Nobody who wants a free state will listen to this - and this is 'crap.'

OK.  I'm a Christian, but I believe that one of my Kelly ancestors was a 'green mountain boy.'  And, I'm proud of it!  The British held a fort (Fort Ticonderoga) which was located on the main road between Canada and NY.  The fort was an important location to the British and contained supplies of guns, cannons, and ammunition which the new colonists needed badly.  In the land that is now Vermont - Ethan Allen and a group of patriots called the Green Mountain  Boys decided they would take Fort Ticonderoga from the British - so in the early hours while they slept, they surrounded the fort.  When that was accomplished, Ethan Allen knocked on the door of the British commander and when the sleepy commander opened the door, Ethan Allen demanded they surrender the fort.  The stunned commander quickly realized the fort was surrounded and surrendered. 

Do you think, Gyzzmo, this could be done if they surrounded them with no weapons? The cannons taken from Fort Ticonderoga were the same cannons taken to Boston when the British were driven out.

[gyzzzmo]

Your theory is that a nation can be free by taking away it's citizens right to bear arms.  This is against the constitution and is ridiculous thinking.   Take a kindergarten class that is held hostage.  If the teacher had a gun - he/she could go out in the hall and blow the 18 year old to smithereens.  And, I'm not talking mercy here.  I'm talking just for myself.  How many of these very young terrorist crazies do we need?

And, how about college campuses?  Are you saying that one lone gunman should hold hostage an entire campus.

Gyzzmo, how old are you and do you want to take over the world or something?  Nobody who wants a free state will listen to this - and this is 'crap.'

More nonsense from Pianistimo here.
Its not a theory of me at all that a country is more 'free' if the people arent allowed to carry guns. But it is a fact that it is alot easier to get guns in the USA because of legalisation of arms. And that is the reason why that kindergarten of yours is held hostage with a gun in the first place. That is the reason why kids can start shooting in college campusses that easily.

Guns are for authorities, not for Yankee doodle.

[pianistimo]

How do you think a country remains free?  Haven't you heard of the Boston Massacre?  England sent soldiers to Boston to 'help keep the peace' - much like the UN is likely to send 'who knows what - where.'  One cold, snowy evening, a small mob began throwing snowballs at a British soldier.  Some of the mob began throwing stones as well.  British soldiers came in running to stop the fight and suddenly, without orders, and perhaps by accident, a gun was shot.  In the confusion, more soldiers fired their guns.

Now, how is this out of the ordinary.  People die?  For what?  Random orders by example? 

We don't have the regimented ideals or styles of people in our backgrounds and tend to trust those who don't look suspicious.  But, the thing is Gyzzmo, we haven't lived through these times that our forefathers did.  We haven't faced enemies on our own soil.  Remember, our country is very young.  We are not like those who fight for generations and generations.  However, the protection given to us has been the fact that we are surrounded by water and 'sea to shining sea.'  This has been providential protection.

Also, do you remember Tiananamen Square?  The one lone man who stood in front of the tank? That was 1989.  Not sure of your birthday.  You can be sure that the whole of the USA was behind that one lone man.

[gyzzzmo]

How do you think a country remains free?  Haven't you heard of the Boston Massacre?  England sent soldiers to Boston to 'help keep the peace' - much like the UN is likely to send 'who knows what - where.'  One cold, snowy evening, a small mob began throwing snowballs at a British soldier.  Some of the mob began throwing stones as well.  British soldiers came in running to stop the fight and suddenly, without orders, and perhaps by accident, a gun was shot.  In the confusion, more soldiers fired their guns.

Now, how is this out of the ordinary.  People die?  For what?  Random orders by example? 

We don't have the regimented ideals or styles of people in our backgrounds and tend to trust those who don't look suspicious.  But, the thing is Gyzzmo, we haven't lived through these times that our forefathers did.  We haven't faced enemies on our own soil.  Remember, our country is very young.  We are not like those who fight for generations and generations.  However, the protection given to us has been the fact that we are surrounded by water and 'sea to shining sea.'  This has been providential protection.

Also, do you remember Tiananamen Square?  The one lone man who stood in front of the tank? That was 1989.  Not sure of your birthday.  You can be sure that the whole of the USA was behind that one lone man.

And what did the Boston thing have to do with anything? You have proven that accidents happen? Another example of your 'arguments' coming from nowhere, leading to nowhere.
And yes indeed your country is young, maybe a reason why your country should learn from the older countries who actually got wise and banned weapons.

And whole the world was behind that lone man from Tiananamen Square, i dont have a clue though what this has got to do with anything, another example of your arguments that are totally pointless.

PS you keep mocking my age.
A funny thing though is that you A: dont know my age, and B: Wisedom obviously has nothing to do with age, proven by the fact that i'm discussing with a woman who's probably 40+ who thinks that her opinion can only be the correct one and who still thinks Africa is a country.

[Petter]

Ahhh Pf Gitmo, the fresh cool morning air and the sound of the nightingales as the sun sets behind the horizon...

[pianistimo]

Touche on the Africa bit.  Saturday night live has done a lot of harm to Sarah Palin, you know.  They take quotes from Tina Fey and attribute them to Sarah. However, Sarah is a lot smarter than I am and I doubt she didn't know that Africa was a continent.  They just like to poke fun.  However, I don't think she takes it very seriously.  After all, she's a governor.  Note:  I don't take this very seriously either - because you can have a dual situation.  Obvioiusly Obama likes the dual part.  May as well combine continents because to him the water in between means nothing.

You can agree to disagree  - but  China itself, obviously didn't agree with the lone gunman.  And, no countries that were around DARED to defy China like that one man.  That one man epitomizes people who are not afraid to die for a cause and want to show that all the guns in the world don't mean '**' and that is a pile of poop.  It is how communism is spread.   Thugs.  That's all.  What kind of government do you think we want?

Let me tell it to you plain and simple.  We want REAL freedom.  Not the kind where you send global packages of aid to countries that haven't paid taxes in our country.  Our rich are paying taxes beyond what is reasonable and the money is going not to a 'bail out' of our own country.  It is a GLOBAL BAIL OUT.  This is what people need to take note of quickly before it gets out of control.

Please, any American who has an ear - go on World Net Daily and sign the petition for the Electoral College to get it's act together.

A bill has already been signed to give away money.  What will the money be used for in a dictatorship situation?  Ammunition.  Gyzzmo is this reasonable?  For World PEACE.  Peace isn't going to be given to you on a silver platter.  And, where are we going to go when we need help?  The UN?  Oh yeah right!!!

Going back in history we can see that because of Jesus Christ being Jewish - Jews have always been a sort of 'scapegoat' for problems people can't work out for themselves.  It's really a matter that other people are blaming their problems on anything but their own.  The Jewish race has always been peaceful.  Here's some of the stuff that has happened to them over the years.  Is this right?  What countries have stood up for the Jewish people?  They know it is wrong and continue to do it.  And, yes - we have people in our own country that are anti-semitic - but, that doesn't mean we don't share a common Judeo-Christian heritage and most people appreciate the 'brotherhood.

But there is another brotherhood.  others in the hood' because their solution is not to 'make peace' first.  Or, terms of peace.  It is completely and utterly war.  I don't think all peoples who are muslim are for war.  But, associations like Black Panther and churches that get together for the sole purpose of demeaning Americans, communist ties YES- IN CHICAGO, and shady schemes with billionaire saudis doesn't resonate with peace or change in the way most people thing.  What we have here is a huge ideology with much potential for 'change.'

Some say, but what about Rahm Imanuel.  What about him?  Will he influence Mr. Obama more than say Hillary Clinton.  Who will come first in foreign policy advice?  I think this is appeasement and I say so openly.  Is there any assurance that Israel will be protected?  I'm not saying it won't in his first months - but what are Mr. Obama's personal views on the right of Israel to exist.  Why are most of his past friends and aquaintances giving money to people that hate Israel?

[richard black]

ANd, regarding Malcom -X speeches - nobody responded!  I find this utterly facinating because we have here the REASON people want communism.  OK.  Hands up. Who is communist?

Well, I'm a communist at heart, even if I am also a pragmatist and therefore, in practical terms, something probably undefinable in the usual platitutes of everyday political dispute. But I think the one-line definition of communism - 'From each according to his ability, to each according to his need' - is an excellent ideal and incidentally pretty much exactly the political message that Jesus sought to spread 2000 years ago.

But I don't know what your point is about Malcolm X, hence no response.

[pianistimo]

My point is that Malcom-X wanted reparations.  I can understand.  Some Jewish people also expect and demand them.  It's going to be interesting between the people who peacefully wait for the Lord and the people who want vengeance.  G-d says that vengeance is his alone.  There are many people who defy the 'norm' of everyday existence and those that use bullying on someone whom they think is beneath or below them.  It's just bullying.  And, it exists in greater quantities in communist countries.  People are afraid to speak up.  They might be sent to jail, relatives killed, people hurt.

A cab driver in NYC recently said he fled Albania and was wondering what happened to the people of NYC to celebrate Obama's victory.  He said he recognized right away what was going on in our own elections.  People have the 'wool' pulled over their eyes.  They don't understand because they have never been communist.  John Lennon didn't even understand.  He was thinking that a life without G-d would mean happiness for people.  It doesn't.  It just means lawlessness.

If our country succumbs to what it looks now like it will...i do belive that G-d will use it as a means to punish us for our own stupidity.  How much more stupid can you get?  Look at the background of someone!  What does he/she stand for?  If you can't even get them to listen to obeying the constitution for a small infraction (and they've studied constitutional law) it means they don't value the constitution.  That is the basis for our law.  It means also, that they think other people don't want to live under the constitution either and eagerly flaunt it.  I am in mourning.  Yes.  While other people celebrate the inauguration - i must say - i will be reading all the charters of rights we have and praying for the safe passage of them to another country.  Namely, that heavenly country where our freedoms are cherished and where they were originally given to us.  You realize that all the patriots that have died are now with G-d.  No communist can get them there!  It's really not in a man's power to deal with nations as G-d can.  So in the end, the natural law which coincides with the laws of G-d (wonder why?!) will show people the way by letting them see chaos for a while.

I don't think the chaos will be from Christians, or the military, or anyone who is American.  I think it will be brought to us.  For what?  Exactly as Malcom-X said - as a punishment from G-d himself.

[thalbergmad]

You are a nasty little virus.

Thal

[G.W.K]

You are a nasty little virus.

You're fighting a losing battle ~ no matter how much you complain, insult or even try to reason with her...she'll ignore you and continue ranting.

G.W.K

[gyzzzmo]

Let me tell it to you plain and simple.  We want REAL freedom.  Not the kind where you send global packages of aid to countries that haven't paid taxes in our country.  Our rich are paying taxes beyond what is reasonable and the money is going not to a 'bail out' of our own country.  It is a GLOBAL BAIL OUT.  This is what people need to take note of quickly before it gets out of control.

Well, if you want REAL freedom, i can only encourage you to start a nation without any laws or taxes so people can do what they do. You will likely get killed pretty soon but that would give us some peace, and you believe you end up in heaven anyway.

[thalbergmad]

You're fighting a losing battle ~ no matter how much you complain, insult or even try to reason with her...she'll ignore you and continue ranting.

I am not fighting any kind of battle, i have long given up with this mentally ill obscenity.

Her posts are like double yellow lines to me.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

You will likely get killed pretty soon

Please try not to get my hopes up.

Thanks

Thal

[G.W.K]

Her posts are like double yellow lines to me.

No parking? LOL

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

People have the 'wool' pulled over their eyes. 

And you have it stuffed between your ears.

[richard black]

How much more stupid can you get?  Look at the background of someone!  What does he/she stand for?

So, er, you would have preferred someone like Bush, who quite openly stood for waging international war on frequently flimsy pretexts so as to advance the business interests of his oil-baron friends?

I think your insistence on the sanctity of the American Constitution will ring a little hollow to many, who realise that it was founded on lies and theft. If anyone should be looking for reparations (and I do realise that reparations in a thorny subject-  indeed one of the most intelligent acts in 20th century politics was the decision by the Allies not to seek reparations from Germany after World War 2) it's the American Indians.

[thalbergmad]

The American Indians were not Christians, so pianistimo would not care about them.

Thal

[shortyshort]

If anyone should be looking for reparations it's the American Indians.

America could not be bothered with them at the time, they are not anymore bothered now.

Way too expensive.

[pianistimo]

American Indians are rightfully the first owners of the land of America.  Nobody fights this, and i agree that many wrongs were done.  They were pushed off the land in many places and fought valiantly to the end of being pushed onto reservations.  It wasn't my idea and it isn't the idea of Christians to do this. William Penn was different - and the Indians found him refreshingly different, too.  To be honest in trade, land, whatever!

Personally, I find the Indian and Eskimo ways of life a beautiful change from the wastefulness of our societies.  Right now, I am reading the book Chesapeake by James Michener which explains all the tribes of Indians that used to live along the Susquehanna and into the Chesapeake bay.  It is hard to believe that only 200+ years ago - they ran the show and their ways were only known to fur traders and small bands of colonists.

Many countries have changed hands multiple times.  Take the middle east - there have been mutiple invasions - one of which was the Turkish which set up a huge empire for quite some time.  It is facinating to read about and yet they also used weapons and did a bit of slicing and dicing.

You can't say one country is any worse than the other after they take it over and occupy it and bring about whatever change they do.  I'm not saying it's all for the good.  We have technology, but we don't have sense with the environment the way the Indians did.  We do understand agriculture (some learned from the Indians) and watersourcing, but we don't understand hunting the same way the Indians did.  And, their love of animals is hard to comprehend.  We tend to pull animals out of the context of their natural surroundings and put them in 'fake' surroundings.  The Indians never did this.

Mining and drilling is antithesis to what the Indians are all about.  The risk of damage to water, etc - is very high.  And, to herds and migration.  However, we live in a world fraught with danger from other places that are continuing to mine for uranium themselves to build bigger and bigger bombs for themselves.  We live with others creating an oil monopoly.   We live in a different world.  We are searching for survival ourselves against great odds.  Are all these odds our fault.  We have inherited a system that is competetive.

Even the Indians were competetive with themselves.  Among the tribes there were greater and lesser.  The main character in 'Chesapeake' Pentaquad tried to convince the others of his tribe Susquehannock not to fight with the other tribes - even though they typically did - for territory along the river.  He about to be punished as a possible spy and decided to just leave the tribe for another one.  Now, I'm just following a story here and just like Americans - there are peaceful Indians and Indians who wanted to challenge the territory issue.  They had just as much right as the Colonists to protect their space.

Here is an excerpt of my favorite part:  after a tribal decision to punish the man for not agreeing to go on the warpath with them - Pentaquad realizes he's got spies assigned to guard him.  'So when he had teased them into moving as far from the river as practical, he turned suddenly and leaped with deerlike speed back toward the river.  When he reached the bank he did not rush immediately into the canoe of his choice; instead he dashed along to the war canoe, taking all the paddles.  Next he jumped to any lesser canoe showing paddles, and collected them , too.  Only then did he turn to his target.  With a cry that echoed through the villiage, he tossed the armful of paddles into the yellow canoe, and gave its stern a mighty shove, then chased it into the muddy waters of the river, climbed aboard and started paddling vigorously downriver.'

Now, this reminds me of David and Goliath.  We have people that want war.  We have people that want peace. The peaceful ones are taunted.  There is a mighty warrior and they stand up to a seemingly insurmountable situation and outwit the situation easily.  The Indian in this story also believed in the 'Great Power' and thanked Him for the birds sent for food through the winter.  I don't think the Indians were unaware - before white men - of the supreme G-d.

[richard black]

I find the Indian and Eskimo ways of life a beautiful change from the wastefulness of our societies

I suppose it was inevitable we should eventually find _something_ we agree on.

[gyzzzmo]

  I don't think the Indians were unaware - before white men - of the supreme G-d.

They have/had their own gods. No way of telling wich one is the right one since they have just as much to backup for their religion as you have for yours.

[thalbergmad]

I don't think the Indians were unaware - before white men - of the supreme G-d.

I wonder how many died having it rammed down their throats by scum like you.

Thal

[timothy42b]

I wonder how many died having it rammed down their throats by scum like you.

Thal

Something like 90 - 95% of the indigenous population of the Americas died of disease around the time the white man arrived.

Some of it was due to old world diseases.  Indians had not domesticated livestock and had not developed resistance to the same types of disease the old world inhabitants had over the course of living closely with their animals.

Some of it was not.  I saw a documentary the other day on a mysterious disease that wiped out the Aztecs during their collision with the Spaniards.  This disease was unknown to the Eurpean physicians so was not apparently just another old world disease they lacked immunity to.  It seems to have been a hemmorhagic fever like Ebola that later disappeared. 

[pianistimo]

Are you sure it was 90-95%?  Anyways, there's no doubt that Europe had many generations to become resistant to the diseases since the middle-ages (which some resurfaced) and the possible heartier health that the Indians may have had not being crowded together in cities, and not being as stressed as early settlers to suddenly realize they weren't coming to a ready-built city here.  As soon as they got off the boat, they had to create some kind of shelters for themselves.  All the tree felling and construction without much food or knowledge of how to survive must have been mentally and physically draining.

The mosquitos along the Susquehanna are mentioned in this book as a huge reason for the passage of frustration to both Indians and Whites.  They also have, in PA, a large number of plants that make you quite itchy - especially poison ivy.  I'm sure that both races helped each other, though not always honestly and fairly.  The advent of the vaccine in the mid-1800's was enough to keep some things like smallpox a bit more under control, didn't it?  However, some of the things used for medicinal purposes ended up being more damaging than helpful.  For instance, bleeding a patient with leeches.  Or, wrapping them in tree bark.  Beethoven complained of some of the same problems of constipation, digestion problems, various internal organs not working properly.

Back then, it was a sort of blind sided affair on both sides.  You have the Indians that are used to the weather, and yet are forced at times to work as slaves.  They are hurt physically, do too much work and die from exhaustion.  Or, whites that are captured and put through a system of degradation of long travels/beatings before they become slaves, too - and the stress levels became high because of mental stress and realization that both sides are fairly brutal sometimes.  Some of the Indian tribes were extremely brutal.  Take the Comache, for instance.  You have a cabin of white folk going about cooking dinner and the next minute - hatchet time.

Well, there's Daniel Boone - he just ignored it all.  I think he thought - ok if I get caught by a tribe that doesn't like me, I'll fight valiantly and die but that isn't going to keep me cabin bound.  He explored.  And, the party of Louis and Clark explored and mapped the USA as it is mapped today.  Before then, we had trails and people generally didn't worry about mapping.  Once the USA was mapped, then the land was chartered and divided and thus the expansion of the West and the unfortunate unfairness of an occupying force.

The UN is currently in charge of satellite mapping the entire world.  Of sectioning states - much like the old roman 'states.'  And, of course, putting ID chips in people who are willing and some unwilling.  Right now in Indonesia (Jakarta?) there is a system in place by the UN to input chips in people who have HIV/AIDS.  Now, if this system takes off and is medically approved - what is to keep others from being tracked and followed.  Basically, everyone's movements will be followed and government will be much more bothersome than the set up of the USA government at the beginning of colonization. 

At colonization, you had a choice to either mingle or not (until the whites became more and more populous and took over entire areas of the indians).  With the UN system - it's not a matter of choice.  Where you LIVE NOW is the place that is being set into a map/plat.  You can't just pick up your house and move to the prarie.  Even the prarie is mapped. 

Gordon Brown, Barack Obama, Mr. Sarkozy, and others have recently made reference to One World Order and are for the idea.  They basically are a 'citizen of the world' as Barack said to his Berlin fans.  A citizen of the world is a citizen who accepts the compromise of sovereignty of country to the sovereignty of a world system.  On the outset it looks wonderful and peaceful.  But, at what cost.  Giving up your financial system?  YES.  Giving up your religious rights and freedoms?  YES.  Giving up privacy?  YES.  Giving up medical choice (if you can be sterilized, forced to abort, euthanized when older). 

This isn't wonderful to me and I prefer the way it is.  So we have people that want to keep things the way they are with the Constitution.  And, people who want a 'One World Order.'  That's the basic premise of the great divide that now stands before us.  I'm sure Intellectual Property will enter all of this in terms of reparations - if it gets to that point.  The Intellectual Property of all people, though, has been greatly damaged by this One World Order because we are ALREADY SPIED ON.  They won't admit to current damage. Only past.  But the damage done now is far greater and extensive.

[mad_max2024]

What's a "One world order"?
Are we going to have a single world from now on?

[thalbergmad]

Some of it was not.  I saw a documentary the other day on a mysterious disease that wiped out the Aztecs during their collision with the Spaniards.   

I have read a little on this subject, but i thought it was smallpox and the common cold that had decimated the Aztecs. I find it fascinating that the Aztecs thought that the arrival of the Spanish was the return of Kon Tiki or their other white skinned God who's name escapes me at the moment.

Of course, the fun loving Christians helped wipe out the race by killing thousands that had survived the diseases.

Nice bunch of people.

Thal

[gyzzzmo]

I have read a little on this subject, but i thought it was smallpox and the common cold that had decimated the Aztecs. I find it fascinating that the Aztecs thought that the arrival of the Spanish was the return of Kon Tiki or their other white skinned God who's name escapes me at the moment.

Of course, the fun loving Christians helped wipe out the race by killing thousands that had survived the diseases.

Nice bunch of people.

Thal

Pianistimo can surely quote something from the Bible to justify these christian actions

[thalbergmad]

Pianistimo can surely quote something from the Bible to justify these christian actions

Undoubtedly, but Pianistimo is NOT a Christian.

She has created her own God, her own perverted version of the bible and her own twisted history of the Earth.

The only peson she worships is herself.

Thal

[pianistimo]

All you do is pose beside huts.  What does that make you.  Buddah.  Well, you can make yourself out to be anything you want - but all that really matters is what G-d thinks of you.  Why don't you ask Him to confirm which race he loves the best?  I think He'd answer all of them.  Therefore, your hatred of Americans who lived 200+ years ago is about as unjustified as hating the British empire at it's peak.  After all, they started the slave trade.

Oh.  And ps - who do you think came up with the King James bible.  Yep.  You're right.  Some freak by the name of King James.  Actually, I think he was probably alright - but hey, I'm giving you a break and you're acting like i have my own slave trade or something. 

You don't have to agree with everyone's ideology to be loving to another race.  My point is that I don't want to be a yellow pencil.  (Dare i say a color?)  OK.  a pink pencil.  whatever.  I'm not scared of you.  I think you're nice but you have to act a certain way to gain some sort of clout with the underworld.  As far as I'm concerned you could double for Huckleberry Finn over here.  He spoke his way out of every situation, but did things like fake his own death.

[G.W.K]

All you do is pose beside huts.  What does that make you.  Buddah.  Well, you can make yourself out to be anything you want - but all that really matters is what G-d thinks of you.  Why don't you ask Him to confirm which race he loves the best?  I think He'd answer all of them.  Therefore, your hatred of Americans who lived 200+ years ago is about as unjustified as hating the British empire at it's peak.  After all, they started the slave trade.

Oh.  And ps - who do you think came up with the King James bible.  Yep.  You're right.  Some freak by the name of King James.  Actually, I think he was probably alright - but hey, I'm giving you a break and you're acting like i have my own slave trade or something. 

You don't have to agree with everyone's ideology to be loving to another race.  My point is that I don't want to be a yellow pencil.  (Dare i say a color?)  OK.  a pink pencil.  whatever.  I'm not scared of you.  I think you're nice but you have to act a certain way to gain some sort of clout with the underworld.

pianistimo ~ WHY are you telling us? We have told you time and time again that we don't want to hear about this! So why do you continue to tell us? (And don't use that "I'm American and American's get free speech and freedom!" crap).

G.W.K

[pianistimo]

Gyzzmo, must I tell you again - you don't rule the world.  Yet.  And, show a little respect to your elders lest i think you are much younger than 40.   Oops  Sorry.  GWK.  Yes.  He's probably 70 and has some ax to grind for being in vietnam or something.  Wait.  Canadian.  British.  Scottish.  Yes.  GWK is scottish.  I remember.  Well, you scots have a lot of attitude all the time.  Take Alistair for instance.  Well, he's not a very good example.  He only had an attitude half the time.  Only when he's ignored or Sorabji is insulted.   

[G.W.K]

Gyzzmo, must I tell you again - you don't rule the world.  Yet.  And, show a little respect to your elders lest i think you are much younger than 40.  

In order to gain respect, you must show respect. You are asking a lot ~ you have not respected your fellow member's requests.

G.W.K

[pianistimo]

This is a thread in which i was merely pointing out the dilemma for Americans.  If you don't want to discuss it - why do you come on the thread?  Only to disagree?  Just politely start a different thread.  Who knows?!  I might just leave it alone.  I haven't talked back on the thread entitled: 'if there's a god, he isn't very nice.'  Now, that's a thread title to wonder about.  Suppose that what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander?  I'm saying a One World Government pawns all the other stuff people complain about.  That's all.  I'm not forcing you to become a Quaker.

And, while we're on the subject of Quakers - they weren't Indian haters.  So... i suppose what i said made you a little sore.  You don't like it when people get along.  That is your problem.

[G.W.K]

This is a thread in which i was merely pointing out the dilemma for Americans.  If you don't want to discuss it - why do you come on the thread?  Only to disagree?  Just politely start a different thread.  Who knows?!  I might just leave it alone.  I haven't talked back on the thread entitled: 'if there's a god, he isn't very nice.'  Now, that's a thread title to wonder about.  Suppose that what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander?  I'm saying a One World Government pawns all the other stuff people complain about.  That's all.  I'm not forcing you to become a Quaker.

And, while we're on the subject of Quakers - they weren't Indian haters.  So... i suppose what i said made you a little sore.  You don't like it when people get along.  That is your problem.

A problem with you: you try to analyse more than you know. I asked why you were telling us a load of crap, I mentioned NOTHING about my like/dislike of people getting along. You try to analyse people, you fail terribly.

Leave analysing to people who can actually do it.

G.W.K

P.S. Why do I come to this thread? The title was so unclear, I had to see what it meant by reading on. Now, I remain here only to help my fellow members try to reason with your demented monologues.

[gyzzzmo]

Gyzzmo, must I tell you again - you don't rule the world.  Yet.  And, show a little respect to your elders lest i think you are much younger than 40.   Oops  Sorry.  GWK.  Yes.  He's probably 70 and has some ax to grind for being in vietnam or something.  Wait.  Canadian.  British.  Scottish.  Yes.  GWK is scottish.  I remember.  Well, you scots have a lot of attitude all the time.  Take Alistair for instance.  Well, he's not a very good example.  He only had an attitude half the time.  Only when he's ignored or Sorabji is insulted.   

Well last time i checked i did indeed not rule any world i know of. But maybe you know more than me.
Funny you start about respect. Respect has nothing to do with age. The only people who really deserve respect are those who respect other people's opinion and beliefs. But thats probably a wisdom you havent learned yet since you want to convince everybody about your own beliefs without respecting others.
If you start seeing more of the real world instead of that tiny bible world of yours, you might actually understand what i mean.

Gyzzzmo

[thalbergmad]

Why don't you ask Him to confirm which race he loves the best?    

Unlike you, i do not have a personal connection.

But you are far more intolerant than i am. Remember your nice little ditty about gays?

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Therefore, your hatred of Americans who lived 200+ years ago is about as unjustified as hating the British empire at it's peak.  

I hate only those that killed, enslaved and rammed their religious vermin into the gulletts of defensless people.

Some undoubtedly followed the same friendly faith that you claim to.

Thal

[G.W.K]

Gyzzmo, must I tell you again - you don't rule the world.  Yet.  And, show a little respect to your elders lest i think you are much younger than 40.   Oops  Sorry.  GWK.  Yes.  He's probably 70 and has some ax to grind for being in vietnam or something.  Wait.  Canadian.  British.  Scottish.  Yes.  GWK is scottish.  I remember.  Well, you scots have a lot of attitude all the time.  Take Alistair for instance.  Well, he's not a very good example.  He only had an attitude half the time.  Only when he's ignored or Sorabji is insulted.   

"you scots have a lot of attitude all the time" ~ perhaps, how would you describe yourself? A demented, bible-bashing, American nutter who truly believes she has a telepathic connection with God? Have you been on the Jerry Springer show? He usually attracts nutters...and YOU moan about people not giving YOU respect? I only give these comments back to you because you were the racist one first.

Not only are you racist, but you are sexist, severely homophobic, insulting, cruel, boring, demented, depressing and many other qualities that could take me hours to list.

People like this: DO NOT DESERVE RESPECT!

Enjoy your day,

G.W.K

P.S. Personally, I don't see why you drag Alistair into this. I find he is a reasonable, intelligent man and apart from the odd comment, is usually not hostile towards anyone. Perhaps I am wrong though.

[thalbergmad]

All you do is pose beside huts.  What does that make you.   

That makes me someone who poses beside huts.

If i was one of your Christian friends of a few hundred years ago, i would not pose beside huts. I would set fire to them, rape the women, put the children to the sword and enslave the men.

Thal

[pianistimo]

Here's some respect to the Vietnam vets that fought for South Asians to have a little of their own power.  You know - fought the Khmer Rouge.  Terrorists.  On their own soil.  This is from a Vietnam vet that did not succumb to Anti-American sentiment:

'Dear President Elect-Obama,  Congratulations on your historic victory.  By now you are deeply involved in the transition process that will seat you as the 44th President of our great country.  I will admit to not having voted for you as I am one of John McCain's 'Band of Brothers' who fought in Viet Nam, and I simply could not refuse his call for help.  He covered my back from the sky when I was on the ground.  But now that you have become president elect of all the people...through the Democratic process John and I fought to protect...I pledge my unwavering loyalty and support.

The America you will lead is neither left-wing nor right-wing.  It is a wonderful blend of the middle.  It does not look to government for anything more than protection from our enemies and assurances that our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will never be compromised.  We believe that the behavior you reward is the behavior you will get.  If you want us to work with you, alongside you, and for you...then reward us...don't punish us for our hard work.  Middle America has shown that it has evolved so as to care little about the color of your skin.  Please be strong in the face of all our enemies.  do not be pressured into bringing our troops home too soon in defeat.  (*my words:  remember the Kurdish President now in power in Iraq - for the first time in many years a Kurd is actually President!)  I know what that feels like and I suspect none of our current men and women in the military are looking forward to a repeat of that tragic mistake of a generation forgotten.  Given them all they need to return home with the full pride and gratitude of our country.  Do not allow their sacrifices (for both Iraq and America's freedom) to be forgotten.  And don't ever forget what happened on 9-11!  

We hold great hope that you will help lead us out of our current economic condition.  Someday this too will just be a part of our history.  We applaud your promise to be tough with those companies who ship our jobs over to foreign countries, but we wish you would be even tougher with those who enter our beloved USA illegally from many of those same foreign countries....for they not only steal jobs, but they also take from us precious social, municipal, and healthcare resources that are eventually paid for by our hard earned tax dollars.  Please don't let them dillute our identities.  We are legitimate American citizens.  Please make the illegals do what our parents and grandparents did.  Is that too m uch to ask?  This is the land of opportunity - not entitlement.  Put Americans to work, pay us a fair wage and we'll do any job...and we'll do it well.  It is now time to secure our borders and deport those who have no legal basis to be here.

Speaking of deportation, Senator Obama, our nation has somehow deported from G-d.  I'm not sure how it happened, but it did.  It's quite a coincidence, don't you think, that so many of the truly serious problems began in this country right around the same time as we were expelling G-d from our schools, banishing G-d from our courts, and evicting G-d from our public domiciles (via TV shows that mock respecting parents and honor for anyone).  Look carefully into the homes of middle-America and you will see a people harboring G-d in spite of our godless government agenda.  It's not religion we cling to...it's our trust in  G-d to 'stand beside us and guide us.'  There's a big difference.  There will always be, to be sure, radical, anti-American, anti-G-d, anti-divine providence minorities in this country who will argue that there is no G-d and that they, the minority, should not have to put up with a country that desperately needs to once again become 'one nation under G-d.'  Please don't listen to them.  I believe that they represent 'from within' that President Lincoln tried to warn us about.  Besides, if we paid any attention to radical, destructive, anti-american groups - you might not be President-elect today.'  God Bless you and God Bless the USA!  Soldier from the Past

[pianistimo]

Because this letter was written by someone other than myself - i wish to say that on the matter of deportation i am somewhat careful.  I feel that the young cuban boy who was rescued off the beach of florida should have been allowed to stay considering his young age, that he had relatives here, and that he was SEEKING FREEDOM.  The terrorists are the ones that need to be deported.  If anyone seeks solace and kindness and freedom - let them stay, be naturalized, and work.  If they are already here and seek peace - let them stay!  But, remember - this FREEDOM is a gift!  A gift from G-d and is mostly found in countries that fight for this freedom with their lives.

I also feel that the situation of the guantanamo bay detainees is somewhat curious right now because NO OTHER COUNTRY WANTS THEM.  WHY?!  CURIOUS CURIOUS