i have returned from pf gitmo

[G.W.K]

A gift from G-d...

God brought gays, wars, non-believers...everything you hate: he supposedly made. So you see Susan, everything you say: you eventually contradict. There is so many loopholes in the Bible, that if you just opened your eyes: you would see that it was an old fiction book wrote by a few men in hope of uniting the world under a belief.

It made the world worst, and drove humans away from each other. Therefore terrorist groups formed (Al Queda) because of such a passionate belief. You are very close-minded. Don't you even CONSIDER the possibility that there is NO God? I doubt you do.

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

Here's some respect to the Vietnam vets that fought for South Asians to have a little of their own power.  You know - fought the Khmer Rouge.  Terrorists.  On their own soil.  This is from a Vietnam vet that did not succumb to Anti-American sentiment:

'Dear President Elect-Obama,  Congratulations on your historic victory.  By now you are deeply involved in the transition process that will seat you as the 44th President of our great country.  I will admit to not having voted for you as I am one of John McCain's 'Band of Brothers' who fought in Viet Nam, and I simply could not refuse his call for help.  He covered my back from the sky when I was on the ground.  But now that you have become president elect of all the people...through the Democratic process John and I fought to protect...I pledge my unwavering loyalty and support.

The America you will lead is neither left-wing nor right-wing.  It is a wonderful blend of the middle.  It does not look to government for anything more than protection from our enemies and assurances that our inalienable rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness will never be compromised.  We believe that the behavior you reward is the behavior you will get.  If you want us to work with you, alongside you, and for you...then reward us...don't punish us for our hard work.  Middle America has shown that it has evolved so as to care little about the color of your skin.  Please be strong in the face of all our enemies.  do not be pressured into bringing our troops home too soon in defeat.  (*my words:  remember the Kurdish President now in power in Iraq - for the first time in many years a Kurd is actually President!)  I know what that feels like and I suspect none of our current men and women in the military are looking forward to a repeat of that tragic mistake of a generation forgotten.  Given them all they need to return home with the full pride and gratitude of our country.  Do not allow their sacrifices (for both Iraq and America's freedom) to be forgotten.  And don't ever forget what happened on 9-11!  

We hold great hope that you will help lead us out of our current economic condition.  Someday this too will just be a part of our history.  We applaud your promise to be tough with those companies who ship our jobs over to foreign countries, but we wish you would be even tougher with those who enter our beloved USA illegally from many of those same foreign countries....for they not only steal jobs, but they also take from us precious social, municipal, and healthcare resources that are eventually paid for by our hard earned tax dollars.  Please don't let them dillute our identities.  We are legitimate American citizens.  Please make the illegals do what our parents and grandparents did.  Is that too m uch to ask?  This is the land of opportunity - not entitlement.  Put Americans to work, pay us a fair wage and we'll do any job...and we'll do it well.  It is now time to secure our borders and deport those who have no legal basis to be here.

Speaking of deportation, Senator Obama, our nation has somehow deported from G-d.  I'm not sure how it happened, but it did.  It's quite a coincidence, don't you think, that so many of the truly serious problems began in this country right around the same time as we were expelling G-d from our schools, banishing G-d from our courts, and evicting G-d from our public domiciles (via TV shows that mock respecting parents and honor for anyone).  Look carefully into the homes of middle-America and you will see a people harboring G-d in spite of our godless government agenda.  It's not religion we cling to...it's our trust in  G-d to 'stand beside us and guide us.'  There's a big difference.  There will always be, to be sure, radical, anti-American, anti-G-d, anti-divine providence minorities in this country who will argue that there is no G-d and that they, the minority, should not have to put up with a country that desperately needs to once again become 'one nation under G-d.'  Please don't listen to them.  I believe that they represent 'from within' that President Lincoln tried to warn us about.  Besides, if we paid any attention to radical, destructive, anti-american groups - you might not be President-elect today.'  God Bless you and God Bless the USA!  Soldier from the Past

Why are you posting this sh*t?

Who is it addressed to?

What is the point?

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I also feel that the situation of the guantanamo bay detainees is somewhat curious right now because NO OTHER COUNTRY WANTS THEM.  WHY?!  CURIOUS CURIOUS

To them, Bush is a terrorist.

They have had their countries invaded and their families killed??

You do not tolerate them as they are not Christians and you fail to accept that Christians too can be terrorists.

But, as i said before, you are NOT a Christian. You are a Pianistian.

You have invented your own faith and like to spit your vile poison accross the pages of this forum.

As you can see from other members, your deluded filth is causing friction, but i guess this is nectar to you and you feed off it.

Thal

[lostinidlewonder]

*starts to sing* Black Eye Peas "Where is the Love" lo0ol
Lets not tag pianstimo as anything, its always best to merely comment on what was said instead of the person.

My opinion on America's deals with Iraq is that they shouldn't be there. More Americans have died since that occupation than all the terrorist attacks in America put together. It is stupid. It is not a preventative move at all. But I see the American media and politics use scare tactics against their nation with "WHAT IFS". What if we do not do Iraq, then more 911's will happen etc. Instead they give us the reassuring feeling that the whole nation is safe while thousands of young American soldiers are used as cannon fodder. They twist the nations feelings too, you should feel guilty and ashamed that you let soldiers go off to war (and even more so since the country they fight in has nothing much to do with America or humanity as a whole, except money ties. There is much worse human atrocities going on as we speak throughout Africa.). Instead they say, please give them honor that they are defending your country and making life for you safe... On the other hand their dealings with War inevitably kills countless innocent people just like you and me.

Power Nations sometimes believe that other countries and nations need to be babysat or shown how to live. As if there is a difference in Human ability to live in this world. This is a maxim for injustice. The English Imperialist did it throughout history, I just have to look at how the Aboriginals where treated in post colonial Australia, or how the American Indians where wiped out. These shameful struggles happened because we lived on the same part of the earth, do we really have the right to take it a step further and invade other countries to deal with their "problems" that we have determined they have?

[pianistimo]

Do you know about rape and torture?  Saddam Hussein's position of power allowed him and his sons to rape and torture their own people (namely Kurds and many ARE Christians- and Muslims - that isn't the issue).  This is not solved by the UN.  They are too weak to do anything but 'peacekeeping.  No.  We gave Saddam Hussein the first bite.  He may have been a snake - but we are snake charmers and we didn't let it happen to us first.  We set him (personally) back quite a few years from using what he used on the Kurds on Israel.

Do you know, he was rebuilding the ancient city of Babylon and just as the bible says - Babylon went down in a day.  This is prophecy for our time and it wasn't even read by the majority of people who happened to fulfill it.  G-d's own Spirit knows the future.  Do you know in some of those palaces many things went on like at the Roman  Collseum?   That people were eaten alive by lions.  People were raped and tortured?  Why should not Iraqi people have the same escape from their holocaust as the jews.  And, now people say 'oh, Saddam Hussein should still be in power.'  Power to do what?  Kill people randomly?

People who don't like what I'm saying don't understand what a tiny nation Israel is.  All the nations around them think that their land is for sale - but they were forced there during and after the war because of the holocaust.  Nobody remembers this in Europe apparently.   But, I'm not saying that once thugs have stolen and robbed that they suddenly want to make it right.  No.  Just hide the evidence. 

Do you know that we are set, on this world stage, for a battle between us and G-d?  It's at Armaggedon where all the nations will fight it out.  For what?  For a tiny piece of land and some oil.  Yes.  How greedy.  All the nations!  Excepting those that are in 'captivity.'  This is what the bible says.  I'm not going to say my words for then it would be 'my gospel.'  The gospel is Christ's and fully his.  He said 'there will be wars and rumors of wars...see that you be not afraid.'  Now, what would cause us not to be afraid?  Maybe being on the side of Israel.  The G-d of Israel will defend Israel alone 'in that day.'  And all their eyes will melt in their sockets from their own weapons.  But, until then - they can dream.

[pianistimo]

Top 5 Crimes of Saddam Hussein

By Jennifer Rosenberg, About.com
See More About:

    * saddam hussein
    * iraq

Saddam Hussein, the president of Iraq from 1979 until 2003, has gained international notoriety for torturing and murdering thousands of his own people. Hussein believes he ruled with an iron fist to keep his country, divided by ethnicity and religion, intact. However, his actions bespeak a tyrannical despot who stopped at nothing to punish those who opposed him.

Having been captured, Saddam Hussein will now be tried for his past crimes. Though prosecutors have hundreds of crimes to choose from, these five are some of Hussein's most heinous.

   1. Reprisal Against Dujail

      On July 8, 1982, Saddam Hussein was visiting the town of Dujail (50 miles north of Baghdad) when a group of Dawa militants shot at his motorcade. In reprisal for this assassination attempt, the entire town was punished. More than 140 fighting-age men were apprehended and never heard from again. Approximately 1,500 other townspeople, including children, were rounded up and taken to prison, where many were tortured. After a year or more in prison, many were exiled to a southern desert camp. The town itself was destroyed; houses were bulldozed and orchards were demolished.

      Though Saddam's reprisal against Dujail is considered one of his lesser-known crimes, it has been chosen as the first for which he will be tried.

   2. Anfal Campaign

      Officially from February 23 to September 6, 1988 (but often thought to extend from March 1987 to May 1989), Saddam Hussein's regime carried out the Anfal (Arabic for "spoils") campaign against the large Kurdish population in northern Iraq. The purpose of the campaign was ostensibly to reassert Iraqi control over the area; however, the real goal was to permanently eliminate the Kurdish problem.

      The campaign consisted of eight stages of assault, where up to 200,000 Iraqi troops attacked the area, rounded up civilians, and razed villages. Once rounded up, the civilians were divided into two groups: men from ages of about 13 to 70 and women, children, and elderly men. The men were then shot and buried in mass graves. The women, children, and elderly were taken to relocation camps where conditions were deplorable. In a few areas, especially areas that put up even a little resistance, everyone was killed.

      Hundreds of thousands of Kurds fled the area, yet it is estimated that up to 182,000 were killed during the Anfal campaign. Many people consider the Anfal campaign an attempt at genocide.

   3. Chemical Weapons Against Kurds

      As early as April 1987, the Iraqis used chemical weapons to remove Kurds from their villages in northern Iraq during the Anfal campaign. It is estimated that chemical weapons were used on approximately 40 Kurdish villages, with the largest of these attacks occurring on March 16, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja.

      Beginning in the morning on March 16, 1988 and continuing all night, the Iraqis rained down volley after volley of bombs filled with a deadly mixture of mustard gas and nerve agents on Halabja. Immediate effects of the chemicals included blindness, vomiting, blisters, convulsions, and asphyxiation. Approximately 5,000 women, men, and children died within days of the attacks. Long-term effects included permanent blindness, cancer, and birth defects. An estimated 10,000 lived, but live daily with the disfigurement and sicknesses from the chemical weapons.

      Saddam Hussein's cousin, Ali Hassan al-Majid was directly in charge of the chemical attacks against the Kurds, earning him the epithet, "Chemical Ali."

   4. Invasion of Kuwait

      On August 2, 1990, Iraqi troops invaded the country of Kuwait. The invasion was induced by oil and a large war debt that Iraq owed Kuwait. The six-week, Persian Gulf War pushed Iraqi troops out of Kuwait in 1991. As the Iraqi troops retreated, they were ordered to light oil wells on fire. Over 700 oil wells were lit, burning over one billion barrels of oil and releasing dangerous pollutants into the air. Oil pipelines were also opened, releasing 10 million barrels of oil into the Gulf and tainting many water sources. The fires and the oil spill created a huge environmental disaster.

   5. Shiite Uprising & the Marsh Arabs

      At the end of the Persian Gulf War in 1991, southern Shiites and northern Kurds rebelled against Hussein's regime. In retaliation, Iraq brutally suppressed the uprising, killing thousands of Shiites in southern Iraq.

      As supposed punishment for supporting the Shiite rebellion in 1991, Saddam Hussein's regime killed thousands of Marsh Arabs, bulldozed their villages, and systematically ruined their way of life. The Marsh Arabs had lived for thousands of years in the marshlands located in southern Iraq until Iraq built a network of canals, dykes, and dams to divert water away from the marshes. The Marsh Arabs were forced to flee the area, their way of life decimated.

      By 2002, satellite images showed only 7 to 10 percent of the marshlands left. Saddam Hussein is blamed for creating an environmental disaster.

[pianistimo]

The bible says the great Euphrates will be dried up - just as it is becoming dried up!  to make way for the entrance of the armies that will use the dry river bed. 

resh water has never been plentiful in the Middle East. Rainfall, what there is of it, only comes in the winter, and drains quickly through the semiarid land.

Now the region's accelerating population, expanding agriculture, and industrialization demand more fresh water. Nations like Israel and Jordan are swiftly sliding into that zone where they are using all the water resources available to them. They have only 15 or 20 years left before their agriculture, and ultimately their security, is threatened ("Water: The Middle East's Critical Resource", National Geographic, May 1993).

Some experts feel that water wars are imminent, and that water has replaced oil as the region's most contentious commodity. Scarcity is one element of the crisis. But in this patchwork of ethnic and religious rivalries, water seldom stands alone as an issue. It is entangled in the politics that keep people (even diverse Arab peoples, much less Arabs and Jews!)         from trusting and helping each other.

Compared with the United States, which has a freshwater potential of 10,000 cubic meters a year for each citizen, Iraq has 5,500, Turkey has 4,000, and Syria has 2,800. These are the "haves" in the regions; the "have-nots": Egypt: 1,100; Israel: 460; Jordan: 260. But these are not firm figures, because upstream use of river water can dramatically alter the potential downstream.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the mammoth Southern Anatolia Project, with its huge Ataturk Dam on the Euphrates River in Turkey. Ataturk is the centerpiece of Turkey's plans for 22 dams to hold the waters of the Euphrates and the Tigris, which also originates in eastern Turkey, and to fill reservoirs that will eventually hold more than ten times the volume of water in the Sea of Galilee.

When nations share the same river, the upstream nation is under no legal obligation to provide water downstream. But the downstream nation can press its claim on the basis of historical use. This is what happened in 1989 when President Turgut Ozal of Turkey alarmed Syria and Iraq by holding back the flow of the Euphrates for a month to start filling the Ataturk. Full development of the Anatolia project could eventually reduce the Euphrates' flow by as much as 60%. This could severely jeopardize Syrian and Iraqi agriculture. A technical committee of the three nations -- Turkey, Syria, and Iraq -- has met intermittently to address such questions, but no real headway has been made.

In turn, less water in the Euphrates has meant lower power output at Syria's own large-scale Euphrates Dam at Tabqa. And, predictably, Syria's big dam has kindled fear of scarcity further downstream in Iraq, adding to longstanding tension between these two nations, apart from their respective tensions with Turkey.

Other water problems abound in the region. Israel -- in its National Water Carrier project -- has been tapping the Sea of Galilee to channel water as far south as the Negev, virtually drying up the southern Jordan River. This has caused substantial hard-ship for Jordanian farmers, and outraged their government, which calls the transfer of water from the Jordan basin a breach of international law. King Hussein of Jordan has said that water is such a volatile issue that "it could drive nations of the region to war."

And now Egypt, nearly totally dependent on water from the Nile River, is troubled by an unstable Ethiopia, source of 85% of the Nile's headwaters. No wonder that UN Secretary-General Bhoutros-Ghali, while he was still Egypt's foreign minister, said, "The next war in the Middle East will be fought over water, not politics."

Does all this have relevance to Bible prophecy of the Last Days? Or is it the merest coincidence that, in Revelation, the great event that immediately precedes the battle of Armageddon is the drying up of the Euphrates River?: "The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East... Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon" (Rev 16:12,16).

Historically, the Euphrates River was diverted and dried up by the invading Persians as part of the campaign that led to the fall of the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar's successors in 536 BC (Dan 5). This led, in short order, to the repatriation (under the benevolent Cyrus of Persia)         of Jewish refugees back to the Land of Israel, from whence they had been transported away by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BC.

This history suggests that, in the Last Days, the "drying up of the Euphrates" will lead again to the fall of modern "Babylon" (cp Rev 16:12 with Rev 16:19), which answers geographically to Iraq (and Syria and Jordan?).

Rev 16:12 echoes its Old Testament counterpart (Isa 11:10-16): "In that day the Root of Jesse [Jesus, son of David and thus son of Jesse too] will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria [modern Syria and/or Iraq], from... Egypt, from Babylonia [Iraq]... He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah... They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west; together they will plunder the people to the east. They will lay hands on Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites will be subject to them. The LORD will dry up the gulf of the Egyptian sea; with a scorching wind he will sweep his hand over the Euphrates River. He will break it up into seven streams so that men can cross over in sandals. There will be a highway for the remnant of his people that is left from Assyria, as there was for Israel when they came up from Egypt."

This cross-reference, together with the history, suggests that the "kings of the east" who return through the dry Euphrates riverbed will be the remnant of Israel who had been previously carried captive by victorious Arabs (Zec 14:2). From their concentration camps in Egypt, but especially in Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, they will call upon the God of their fathers, and upon His Son. And from thence they will be delivered back to their own Land, as part of the process by which their Savior will reestablish the Kingdom of Israel in Jerusalem again. Why are they called "kings"? Because, along with Jewish and Gentile believers from others ages and other nations, they will then reign with Christ over the nations (cp Rev 1:6; 2:26,27; 5:9,10).

[Other prophecies which present the same basic picture, ie, of a believing Jewish remnant brought back out of the Arab nations in the Last Days: Isa 19:23-25; 27:12,13; 35; 43:1-7; 52:1-10; Jer 3:18; 16:14, 15; Joel 3:2-7; and Zec 10:9-11.]

It is possible that God, through Turkey's project at Ataturk, is presently arranging the "pieces of the puzzle" for the future -- when the drying Euphrates will accelerate the time of war in the Middle East. In the near future, the Arab nations may fight with one another, and with Israel, about water (and land, and "holy places" too, of course!). The outcome of the last such war will be the defeat of Israel. But, in some strange way as yet difficult to perceive, the continuous shortage of water for "Babylon" (Iraq/Syria/Jordan?)         will contribute to the weakening of Israel's enemies, and the subsequent return of Israeli captives (prospective "kings from the east")         to Jerusalem to participate in Christ's kingdom.

How exactly will this be brought about? Who will finally dry up the Euphrates? Turkey, or Christ? When will it be finally accomplished? Before Christ comes, or after? For the present, we can only guess at the answers. Perhaps there are other "puzzle pieces" lying right in front of us, which we simply haven't thought of in the right context yet.

[One final question: Is there any significance to the verbal similarity between the "east" -- in Greek, anatole -- of Rev 16:12, and the region of Anatolia in eastern Turkey?]

[lostinidlewonder]

Although the atrocities happening in Iraq cannot be denied, they are however very much magnified by American politics. More people are dying  and suffering great injustice elsewhere than Iraq, Darfur for example, what has America done for that? And the problem there is hundreds of times worse than Iraq.

[thalbergmad]

The bible says the great Euphrates will be dried up - just as it is becoming dried up!  to make way for the entrance of the armies that will use the dry river bed. 

resh water has never been plentiful in the Middle East. Rainfall, what there is of it, only comes in the winter, and drains quickly through the semiarid land.

Now the region's accelerating population, expanding agriculture, and industrialization demand more fresh water. Nations like Israel and Jordan are swiftly sliding into that zone where they are using all the water resources available to them. They have only 15 or 20 years left before their agriculture, and ultimately their security, is threatened ("Water: The Middle East's Critical Resource", National Geographic, May 1993).

Some experts feel that water wars are imminent, and that water has replaced oil as the region's most contentious commodity. Scarcity is one element of the crisis. But in this patchwork of ethnic and religious rivalries, water seldom stands alone as an issue. It is entangled in the politics that keep people (even diverse Arab peoples, much less Arabs and Jews!)         from trusting and helping each other.

Compared with the United States, which has a freshwater potential of 10,000 cubic meters a year for each citizen, Iraq has 5,500, Turkey has 4,000, and Syria has 2,800. These are the "haves" in the regions; the "have-nots": Egypt: 1,100; Israel: 460; Jordan: 260. But these are not firm figures, because upstream use of river water can dramatically alter the potential downstream.

Nowhere is this more evident than in the mammoth Southern Anatolia Project, with its huge Ataturk Dam on the Euphrates River in Turkey. Ataturk is the centerpiece of Turkey's plans for 22 dams to hold the waters of the Euphrates and the Tigris, which also originates in eastern Turkey, and to fill reservoirs that will eventually hold more than ten times the volume of water in the Sea of Galilee.

When nations share the same river, the upstream nation is under no legal obligation to provide water downstream. But the downstream nation can press its claim on the basis of historical use. This is what happened in 1989 when President Turgut Ozal of Turkey alarmed Syria and Iraq by holding back the flow of the Euphrates for a month to start filling the Ataturk. Full development of the Anatolia project could eventually reduce the Euphrates' flow by as much as 60%. This could severely jeopardize Syrian and Iraqi agriculture. A technical committee of the three nations -- Turkey, Syria, and Iraq -- has met intermittently to address such questions, but no real headway has been made.

In turn, less water in the Euphrates has meant lower power output at Syria's own large-scale Euphrates Dam at Tabqa. And, predictably, Syria's big dam has kindled fear of scarcity further downstream in Iraq, adding to longstanding tension between these two nations, apart from their respective tensions with Turkey.

Other water problems abound in the region. Israel -- in its National Water Carrier project -- has been tapping the Sea of Galilee to channel water as far south as the Negev, virtually drying up the southern Jordan River. This has caused substantial hard-ship for Jordanian farmers, and outraged their government, which calls the transfer of water from the Jordan basin a breach of international law. King Hussein of Jordan has said that water is such a volatile issue that "it could drive nations of the region to war."

And now Egypt, nearly totally dependent on water from the Nile River, is troubled by an unstable Ethiopia, source of 85% of the Nile's headwaters. No wonder that UN Secretary-General Bhoutros-Ghali, while he was still Egypt's foreign minister, said, "The next war in the Middle East will be fought over water, not politics."

Does all this have relevance to Bible prophecy of the Last Days? Or is it the merest coincidence that, in Revelation, the great event that immediately precedes the battle of Armageddon is the drying up of the Euphrates River?: "The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East... Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon" (Rev 16:12,16).

Historically, the Euphrates River was diverted and dried up by the invading Persians as part of the campaign that led to the fall of the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar's successors in 536 BC (Dan 5). This led, in short order, to the repatriation (under the benevolent Cyrus of Persia)         of Jewish refugees back to the Land of Israel, from whence they had been transported away by Nebuchadnezzar in 587 BC.

This history suggests that, in the Last Days, the "drying up of the Euphrates" will lead again to the fall of modern "Babylon" (cp Rev 16:12 with Rev 16:19), which answers geographically to Iraq (and Syria and Jordan?).

Rev 16:12 echoes its Old Testament counterpart (Isa 11:10-16): "In that day the Root of Jesse [Jesus, son of David and thus son of Jesse too] will stand as a banner for the peoples; the nations will rally to him, and his place of rest will be glorious. In that day the Lord will reach out his hand a second time to reclaim the remnant that is left of his people from Assyria [modern Syria and/or Iraq], from... Egypt, from Babylonia [Iraq]... He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah... They will swoop down on the slopes of Philistia to the west; together they will plunder the people to the east. They will lay hands on Edom and Moab, and the Ammonites will be subject to them. The LORD will dry up the gulf of the Egyptian sea; with a scorching wind he will sweep his hand over the Euphrates River. He will break it up into seven streams so that men can cross over in sandals. There will be a highway for the remnant of his people that is left from Assyria, as there was for Israel when they came up from Egypt."

This cross-reference, together with the history, suggests that the "kings of the east" who return through the dry Euphrates riverbed will be the remnant of Israel who had been previously carried captive by victorious Arabs (Zec 14:2). From their concentration camps in Egypt, but especially in Syria, Jordan, and Iraq, they will call upon the God of their fathers, and upon His Son. And from thence they will be delivered back to their own Land, as part of the process by which their Savior will reestablish the Kingdom of Israel in Jerusalem again. Why are they called "kings"? Because, along with Jewish and Gentile believers from others ages and other nations, they will then reign with Christ over the nations (cp Rev 1:6; 2:26,27; 5:9,10).

[Other prophecies which present the same basic picture, ie, of a believing Jewish remnant brought back out of the Arab nations in the Last Days: Isa 19:23-25; 27:12,13; 35; 43:1-7; 52:1-10; Jer 3:18; 16:14, 15; Joel 3:2-7; and Zec 10:9-11.]

It is possible that God, through Turkey's project at Ataturk, is presently arranging the "pieces of the puzzle" for the future -- when the drying Euphrates will accelerate the time of war in the Middle East. In the near future, the Arab nations may fight with one another, and with Israel, about water (and land, and "holy places" too, of course!). The outcome of the last such war will be the defeat of Israel. But, in some strange way as yet difficult to perceive, the continuous shortage of water for "Babylon" (Iraq/Syria/Jordan?)         will contribute to the weakening of Israel's enemies, and the subsequent return of Israeli captives (prospective "kings from the east")         to Jerusalem to participate in Christ's kingdom.

How exactly will this be brought about? Who will finally dry up the Euphrates? Turkey, or Christ? When will it be finally accomplished? Before Christ comes, or after? For the present, we can only guess at the answers. Perhaps there are other "puzzle pieces" lying right in front of us, which we simply haven't thought of in the right context yet.

[One final question: Is there any significance to the verbal similarity between the "east" -- in Greek, anatole -- of Rev 16:12, and the region of Anatolia in eastern Turkey?]

I have not read what is probably deluded and evil crap.

You baffle with bullshit when you cannot dazzle with brilliance.

Your bigotry will never decrease until you can accept that Christians can be terrorists to.

I am not in the the slightest bit interested in what your sandal wearing goatherders have to say about modern affairs.

Thal

[morningstar]

OK without being rude I am curious...how did this get to 4 pages?
Pianistimo-so many of the world's religions are as bad as each other. Millions are slaughtered over the simple belief "My religion is better than yours." Christianity is no exception.
OK. Done.

[gyzzzmo]

OK without being rude I am curious...how did this get to 4 pages?
Pianistimo-so many of the world's religions are as bad as each other. Millions are slaughtered over the simple belief "My religion is better than yours." Christianity is no exception.
OK. Done.

Probably(?) cause Nilsjohan told her to stay away from other threads and put all her crap on her own thread :p

Btw, i would love to see Pianistimo's face if Petrus send her to hell instead of heaven because of all her disrespect towards other opinions and her love for war. So Petrus: Please send me a pic of her when she finally left our heathen planet. 

[morningstar]

Probably(?) cause Nilsjohan told her to stay away from other threads and put all her crap on her own thread :p

Btw, i would love to see Pianistimo's face if Petrus send her to hell instead of heaven because of all her disrespect towards other opinions and her love for war. So Petrus: Please send me a pic of her when she finally left our heathen planet. 

Oh. It seems to have worked in any case.

No comment.

[thalbergmad]

Probably(?) cause Nilsjohan told her to stay away from other threads and put all her crap on her own thread :p

In that case, i guess we should be thankfull.

There was a time when she was infesting just about every board on the whole forum.

Like any virus, i guess it is for the best that she is kept in one place as to keep infection to a minimum.

Thal

[morningstar]

In that case, i guess we should be thankfull.

There was a time when she was infesting just about every board on the whole forum.

Like any virus, i guess it is for the best that she is kept in one place as to keep infection to a minimum.

Thal

*puts on bio-hazard suit*
lol just kidding pianistimo.

[pianistimo]

I didn't ask for you all to welcome me back.  In fact, you could have avoided this thread.  No. Nils did not tell me anything excepting to limit the number of posts per day.  This is a reasonable request and I think he is quite fair in letting all people give their perspective on what is currently happening in the world.  Of course, not everyone will agree.  But, you cannot make blanket statements that all the evils in the world are the USA's fault.  How is Darfur anything but the UN's fault.  They have had the most troops there and have been unable to do anything but 'peacekeeping.'  This is what I mean. Unless you have an army that is willing to DO something - you don't really have peacekeeping in the ultimate sense of the word.

For a fair shake, I would agree that all the systems of the world are corrupt.  Even the 'democratic' system.  But, you have to admit - it's held around the longest and that people immigrate here for a reason!  They come to experience something that they can't get elsewhere. Namely, a President who has a limited term.  If you have a President you don't like - at least you know he has a limited term.  The poor of  Venezuala loved Chavez at first.  Now what do they think? We have, in our current situation - extenuating situations too.  For instance - corruption and crime that is similar to communist states now.  Just last night there was a HUGE disagreement on the additional $15 billion bailout for the auto industry and feel it is creating a car czar situation.

People here know something 'fishy' is going on in government.  It has been a process much like warming and then boiling a frog.  If people don't complain about one bailout - continue on as if nothing can stop?  This is ridiculous to the extreme when there is no pressure to reconfigure anything.  AIG top execs now run off with billions and leave little homeowners with refinancing that they have to come back in six months and do over because the refi was only 15% less and the execs get 200% on their bonuses and stuff?  Who is making the money? The taxpayers?

That shows me that our system is FAR from perfect.  I'm not saying Americans are perfect.  But, we try to be honest and fair and that is what the Constitution attempts to do.  To keep us following laws.  Now, it is said that the consitution needs 'changing.'  What for?  To join a world union which will keep wages down and spying at an all time high?  Do you all like to be spied on?  The situation, according to the bible, is this:  Accept the mark of the beast (government power) and buy and sell.  Refuse the mark of the beast - not be able to buy or sell.  It's coming to a bank nearest you.

Elijah certainly didn't worry about money, food, clothing.  Neither did the disciples, John the Baptist, people of faith down through history.  Might doesn't make right.  It's just might.  Jesus Christ is also called 'the Lion of Judah' and He alone will fight for His people in 'that day.'  (Day of Judgement)  His ways are ultimately the ones that will win.  In the meantime, we may suffer - but it's for a reason.  To compare His ways which are perfect with an imperfect system of government that he says in the bible is corrupted by Satan himself.   That all the systems of the world are owned right now by Satan.  Even in Jesus time - he was tested and asked if he wanted the governments at the time he lived then.  He didn't make a bargain and waited until now to take a Kingdom that is rightfully his by His sacrifice and willingness to serve His constutuents.

[thalbergmad]

That all the systems of the world are owned right now by Satan. 

Including your church.

Why don't you give up your evil life and become one of the disciples?

Give up everything you own, leave your husband and children and prepare for the second coming.

Even better, why don't you put your head in the microwave on mark 10 for 5 minutes. God would not allow one of his true disciples to come to any harm.

You are the kind of moron that would start a Cult, if you could find people who were even more demented than you are to follow you.

In fact, i think you should start your own Cult. You Americans have had a few of them. Lets call it Pianistimoism.

You could find a few spazzos as disciples, move into an emtpy ranch in the Mojave desert and all commit suicide when your piss pathetic predictions don't come true.

Thal

[pianistimo]

That's the test of who is right between you and i.  If it comes true.  It is said in the bible that if a prophet is from G-d (and note: i don't claim to be a prophet/ess) - all his/her words will come true.  It is also said that two witnesses will speak to the entire world right before the coming of our Savior.  They will speak words and whatever they say will happen.  If they ask for 'no rain' - there won't be any rain.  This is a final witness to people who disbelieve and say that G-d can do nothing in this physical world - when there is abundant evidence even without prophets.  But, anyways - when it all happens, then those who already believed would be said to have faith without seeing first.  Those that don't will probably say, hmm - maybe there IS a G-d.

Unless...they are deceived.  You see, at the same time as the prophets of G-d are creating miracles by the Spirit and Power of G-d - a false Christ will also do similar things.  Rev. 13:13 'He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.  And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast (now if it isn't the beast doing these signs - then it is likely a religious type of person), TELLING THOSE WHO DWELL ON THE EARTH TO MAKE AN IMAGE TO THE BEAST who was wounded by the sword and lived.' 

Do I have any idea of the total vision of John. No.  But, I do realize that the day and age we live in is like no other.  Something really powerful is about to happen and I don't doubt it is a final battle between good and evil.  Sounds funny to those who don't believe in G-d or Satan.

The disciples of Jesus were given a task by him. That was to 'preach the gospel into all the world' and then 'the end will come.'  The gospel of Jesus Christ is pretty much preached in all the world.  So what are we waiting for?  Jesus Christ.  That's all.  I'm saying the governments of this world don't hold out much hope.  If I am considered anything - i hope that I am a disciple.  Not a leader.  A follower.

[G.W.K]

I didn't ask for you all to welcome me back.

Good, because we don't.

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

The disciples of Jesus were given a task by him. That was to 'preach the gospel into all the world' and then 'the end will come.' 

Well, you have preached your own perverted version of the Bible here for ages, so why don't you go and do it somewhere else?

Surely if it is your task to preach to ALL the world, you need to spread yourself around a bit more. Undoubtedly there are millions of people that you preach to via the internet. Many more than you get to see in person at the Asylum.

I therefore respectfully suggest that you piss off and go and infest other forums with your blasphemy, as your work is most certainly done here.

Thal

[G.W.K]

I therefore respectfully suggest that you piss off and go and infest other forums with your blasphemy, as your work is most certainly done here.

I agree. Why don't we all sign a petition?

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

Something really powerful is about to happen and I don't doubt it is a final battle between good and evil.  Sounds funny to those who don't believe in G-d or Satan.

Probably sounds funny to a lot of people that do believe and not so funny to a lot of people that spend time in various institutions.

Predicting final battles and second comings has been a passtime of the lunatic fringe for centuries and will be for centuries to come.

You have said this all before many times, so don't you think it is time to shut it?

Thal

[thalbergmad]

I agree. Why don't we all sign a petition?

G.W.K

I admit that i think a poll would be an excellent idea, but i also think that it would be one of the shortist lived threads in history as Nils is the "lord" on this forum.

I am also prepared to admit that i think pianistimo should be banned permanently from this forum, but i expect that a few people might want me gone as well.

Perhaps it would be best for the forum if we were both banned, as i really do not want to be on the same airspace as this woman, and the only reason i respond to her rubbish is that she takes non response as a victory.

Thal

[G.W.K]

I admit that i think a poll would be an excellent idea, but i also think that it would be one of the shortist lived threads in history as Nils is the "lord" on this forum.

I am also prepared to admit that i think pianistimo should be banned permanently from this forum, but i expect that a few people might want me gone as well.

Perhaps it would be best for the forum if we were both banned, as i really do not want to be on the same airspace as this woman, and the only reason i respond to her rubbish is that she takes non response as a victory.

Thal

Oh no thal, you have to stay. You're one of the few people I find amusing (most of the time) here. Pianistimo should be banned, she must have THE lowest reputation, one of the few with the MOST reports against and one of the most BORING people here.

Leave Susan, whilst you have a little dignity left. Being banned would remove all your dignity. No matter which way though: it would do us ALL a favour.

Take the hint,

G.W.K

[gyzzzmo]

I admit that i think a poll would be an excellent idea, but i also think that it would be one of the shortist lived threads in history as Nils is the "lord" on this forum.

I am also prepared to admit that i think pianistimo should be banned permanently from this forum, but i expect that a few people might want me gone as well.

Perhaps it would be best for the forum if we were both banned, as i really do not want to be on the same airspace as this woman, and the only reason i respond to her rubbish is that she takes non response as a victory.

Thal

I cant really agree. I do think theres not much more than radical crap between Pianistimo's ears and that she's a lunatic. But as long as she only posts her religious lunacy only in her own topic, its fine to me. After all its our choice to reply on this topic.

Gyzzzmo

[richard black]

Saddam Hussein was a proper nasty piece of work, I don't think anyone in the world ever disputed that except his closest friends and associates (and very likely even they realised in their heart). But he was first enabled to be a nasty piece of work on a large scale by being armed and supported by America. Was that smart? Was that in the name of peace on earth?

[thalbergmad]

I cant really agree. I do think theres not much more than radical crap between Pianistimo's ears and that she's a lunatic. But as long as she only posts her religious lunacy only in her own topic, its fine to me. After all its our choice to reply on this topic.

Yes, i guess you are right, but i submit that what is between her ears is dangerous radical crap. She posted earlier about a final battle between good and evil and undoubtedly she considers herself in the good dept. So who is the evil sector? Well, i think it is anyone who does not follow her religion. People like her would wipe out millions if they thought it is what God commanded.

Her religious lunacy will eventually spread to other boards as it has done before. Once she was even quoting the Bible in the performance thread.

Her virus must be kept in quarantine, but i cannot see it happening.

Thal

[thalbergmad]

Oh no thal, you have to stay. You're one of the few people I find amusing (most of the time) here.

Thanks TW, that is really kind of you.

I do try to be amusing and like to make people laugh. I do not consider myself to be nasty person, and sometimes i look back at some of my posts and cannot believe what i have written. There is something about this woman that makes my blood boil and i simply lose it when confronted with the same old garbage that she has been posting for the last 4 years.

One of us has to go.

Thal

[G.W.K]

One of us has to go.

No offense, but I find it quite cowardly to be driven away by a psycotic spammer.

G.W.K

[gyzzzmo]

Her virus must be kept in quarantine, but i cannot see it happening.

Thal

So far she seems to be able to control herself pretty good and not spread her litter on the other threads. If she starts doing it again we'll start petitioning . Not really needed though since Nils probably (hopefully) keeps an eye on her.

[G.W.K]

since Nils probably (hopefully) keeps an eye on her.

*SIGHS*

We can only wish...

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

It is cowardly, but i am fed up with the anger that i feel and the hate that i pour out in my posts.

I am not really like that, and i don't like to feel like this. It consumes too much energy.

Thal

[ahinton]

May I try to defuse all this stuff by wishing a very happy 100th birthday to a really important American?

Best,

Alistair

[G.W.K]

May I try to defuse all this stuff by wishing a very happy 100th birthday to a really important American?

Best,

Aloistair

Certainly Aloistair, in the post that is dedicated to him. (If you mean who I think you mean)

G.W.K

[gyzzzmo]

May I try to defuse all this stuff by wishing a very happy 100th birthday to a really important American?

Best,

Aloistair

I thought Santa Claus was much older.... He might also be from Skandinavia, not sure though.

[pianowolfi]

I thought Santa Claus was much older.... He might also be from Skandinavia, not sure though.

The person whom this tradition leads back to was the bishop of Myra (nowadays Demre in Turkey) Nikolaos Myriotes, who lived in third/fourth century AD.

[ahinton]

Well, you scots have a lot of attitude all the time.  Take Alistair for instance.  Well, he's not a very good example.  He only had an attitude half the time.  Only when he's ignored or Sorabji is insulted.   

I have deliberately refrained from further contribution to this thread for some time since I am at a loss to understand much of what is being posted here; however, since you bring me into it, you might care to explain what you mean by the above. I hope to have an attitude of one kind or another all of the time. I am not being "ignored" here now or at any other time, but lack of reference to me does not signify that I am; if I've not written anything here, there is nothing to ignore and, since no one has either praised or insulted Sorabji in this thread, the relevance of your reference to this here likewise seems at best dubious.

I would like to think that if someone could be bothered to add up the word count of your political and religious posts in this thread alone, you might get quite a shock; sadly, however, I rather suspect that you wouldn't...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

Alistair, I respectfully defer to you much more than someone who replies on a thread of someone whom they disagree with and think that because of disagreement the other person must be banned.   They cannot allow two sides of a story to be told.  After all, what IS freedom of speech?  The christian side simply says - don't become despondent over politics.  It isn't the end of the world (yet).

And, as to 'radical' - what kind of radical are we talking.  Jesus Christ was a radical to the Romans and He didn't apologize for it.  In fact, he said 'you would have no power unless G-d had given it to you' directly to Pilate. This was AFTER He was severely beaten.  I guess that qualifies as radical.

There's another kind of radical that makes anti-American speeches.  One such word used in a radical speech was 'audacity.'  I think it was Malcom X.  I can see why his radical views developed because he is RIGHT that there is no difference between white bigotry and black bigotry.  And, yet, until near the end of his life - he was deceived into thinking that the best way to handle the situation was retribution someday.  That the 'chickens would come home to roost' by encouraging others such as the 'nation of islam' to do the dirty work.  How is this not radical also.

I'm saying that there are so many divisions today that the only REAL peace is by having a negotiator for all the races.  Jesus Christ.  In Islam - Jesus is not recognized as a Savior.  Only a Prophet.  That makes Christians at odds with devout Muslims.  It's not really an issue for the population that is not particularly religious.  But, for those peace loving Muslims and peace loving Christians - they can say 'we have a common ancestor - Abraham.'  It is a common point of peace.  To seek peace and pursue it earnestly.

[ahinton]

Alistair, I respectfully defer to you much more than someone who replies on a thread of someone whom they disagree with and think that because of disagreement the other person must be banned.

Thank you for the respect, Susan and there is no need to defer to me right now , but you have not answered my question by stating what you meant by your references to me earlier in this thread.

They cannot allow two sides of a story to be told.  After all, what IS freedom of speech?  The christian side simply says - don't become despondent over politics.  It isn't the end of the world (yet).

That's as maybe, but it doesn't of itself even begin to account for all the copius religious and politically oriented verbosity with which this thread has been beset...

And, as to 'radical' - what kind of radical are we talking.  Jesus Christ was a radical to the Romans and He didn't apologize for it.  In fact, he said 'you would have no power unless G-d had given it to you' directly to Pilate. This was AFTER He was severely beaten.  I guess that qualifies as radical.

There's another kind of radical that makes anti-American speeches.  One such word used in a radical speech was 'audacity.'  I think it was Malcom X.

Well, we all know that Jesus Christ was regarded by some as a radical, but what does that alone prove, particularly in the context of recent and current American politics?

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

Alistair, i was merely joking about 'attitude' since I read the thread attacking Sorabji (and note - i never attacked him once.  in fact, you'll recall that i had quite a pleasant eye opening experience playing the beginning of 'the hothouse.')  Now, we have a hothouse here.

The different perspectives here are, to me, like a roundtable.  To others, it seems that tolerating different opinions means to cricize  Christians as being mental, unstable, crazy, whatever. 

If this were a fair world - Christians would not be targeted anywhere.  But, unfortunately they are in many areas of the world now.  Why?  Because it's not in a One World Agenda to have any other source of power.  Jesus Christ came to challenge the 'status quo.'  That's why He's not liked. He's for CHANGE.

[cmg]

Welcome back, pianistimo.  The forum has come alive again!

Frankly, I totally disagree with your American Right Wing fears and fantasies about Obama.  But given the over-the-top political corruption that has infected Illinois and Chicago for decades now, I can understand how these flames have been fanned.

Still, here's the current US situation created by eight years of Bush.  In NYC alone, 152,000 jobs have been lost this year.  The economy is plummeting . . . fast.  Most experts fear a depression now.  Not just a recession.  Africa is in a nightmare of horrendous proportions.  The Mideast, as always, is on the verge of another explosion.  Terrorists are re-arming themselves in India.  Pakistan is on the verge of a complete economic collapse.  Dubai, as well, if its neighbors don't help out.

This just might be the End Game everyone feared.  Even the Mayan calendar predicted a vast global upheaval to climax on Dec. 21, 2012.  (I'm sure they anticipated Sarah Palin's ascendancy!)

But, this is not the work of Satan.  It's the work of greedy, rapacious, immoral men and women.  God has nothing to do with the predicted downfall of our culture.  We do.

Yet, I appreciate your efforts to link it all together in some sort of politico-religious system that makes sense to you.

Write on, pianistimo.  You have a right to free speech. 

[ahinton]

Alistair, i was merely joking about 'attitude' since I read the thread attacking Sorabji (and note - i never attacked him once.  in fact, you'll recall that i had quite a pleasant eye opening experience playing the beginning of 'the hothouse.')  Now, we have a hothouse here.

OK - that's fine.

The different perspectives here are, to me, like a roundtable.  To others, it seems that tolerating different opinions means to cricize  Christians as being mental, unstable, crazy, whatever. 

I think that you will find that some would reasonably regard your "table" as being a disproportionately larger one than anyone else's here by virtue of the sheer amount that you post; furthermore, many here will not necessarily see all Christians "as being mental, unstable, crazy" but some may well regard a substantial proportion of your particular lucubrations in that way and, I have to say, I do not understand most of them myself. In addition, you seem to have little tolerance of or forebearance towards those who do not share some of your very particularised and entrenched views; for you, it seems that, for example, those who do not believe in God and those whose beliefs and opinions are diametrically opposed to your own (not least over such issues as creationism which you have alluded to many times in the past, although that is but a single example) are largely to be disregarded or at least regarded in a comparatively poor light even if they are not being rude to you about your views or anything else.

If this were a fair world - Christians would not be targeted anywhere.  But, unfortunately they are in many areas of the world now.  Why?  Because it's not in a One World Agenda to have any other source of power.  Jesus Christ came to challenge the 'status quo.'  That's why He's not liked. He's for CHANGE.

Lots of people of all manner of persuasions and none are disliked. Lots of people who are for change are particularly disliked. Lots of people are targeted in many parts of the world for their beliefs as well as for many other things that they are believed to represent. None of this is exclusive to Christians and the practice of Christianity, nor has it ever been so. Here is a classic example of the negative use of your Christian bias and of your shortage of tolerance of non-Christians, all in your own words. Personally, I would not at all want to live in a world without genuine Christians but by the same token I would not choose to live in one where all people followed the Christian faith. Moreover, you have yourself illustrated the existence of some of the divisions within the Christian movement itself, pointing an accusing finger - as you have in the past done - at the Roman Catholic faith; this alone does little to encourage either Christians or non-Christians to sympathise with certain of your avowed viewpoints.

I daresay Obama would like to think that he is for change; some will support that and others won't.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

Thank you cmg for your clinging to free speech rights as well.  After all, if we don't have it - what do we have?  And, I agree - this bailout is getting wayyy out of hand.  I was mad at Paulson the first time I heard him speak.  It sounded really socialist.  The government owning everything now?  I'm currently listening to the Senate debate the issue and it's so funny.  A majority of the Republicans are saying to the carmakers 'why don't they consider bankruptcy? or merging?'  That is because if it happened to a regular us citizen - nobody would bail THEM out.

As it is now, there is 65 BILLION dollars worth of debt for GM.  This is going to be 'additionally' included in the 700 billion?  I thought the 700 billion was bailing out wall street.  Wow. If they make a stink about Palin's bridge to nowhere (and at the time it was a good idea for the people who lived on a particular island to be able to drive and not have to fly out) and it would have been ACTUAL BRIDGE  you can ACTUALLY see - how is this worse than bailing out wall street, car industries, the banks - and never see anything ever again!

AIG took off with bonuses for their companies higher ups?  What about shareholders in all this.   Will GM's shareholders only get 30 cents on the dollar (and dropping by the day).  It's just so sad.  I can't help but wonder if ALL politics is just corrupt and illegal. 

But, what will happen well it's Chicago politics to boot?  I mean - I'd rather have small town politics.  But, they say that 'people don't want that.'  Why not?  What's the matter with being more transparent?  Small town people are not any different than white, hispanic, black, arabic - you name it - so WHY does Obama say that 'we don't want small town politics?'  I think Blagoveich may just hold some 'baggage' that will make the entire USA look pretty funny in a year or so.  You know - he gets out of jail again by a Saudi billionaire or something.  Obama will  say 'I didn't know about this.'  And, then the illinois senate seat will be the saudi billionaire. 

[thalbergmad]

I don't believe it.

She actually managed to do it.

Thal

[timothy42b]

Well, we all know that Jesus Christ was regarded by some as a radical, but what does that alone prove, particularly in the context of recent and American politics?

Best,

Alistair

Wrong word.  She meant to say "maverick," not radical. 

[ahinton]

Wrong word.  She meant to say "maverick," not radical. 

It is not for me to say whether or not the word that Susan used was right or wrong - merely to respond to what she has written.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Thank you cmg for your clinging to free speech rights as well.  After all, if we don't have it - what do we have?  And, I agree - this bailout is getting wayyy out of hand.  I was mad at Paulson the first time I heard him speak.  It sounded really socialist.  The government owning everything now?  I'm currently listening to the Senate debate the issue and it's so funny.  A majority of the Republicans are saying to the carmakers 'why don't they consider bankruptcy? or merging?'  That is because if it happened to a regular us citizen - nobody would bail THEM out.

As it is now, there is 65 BILLION dollars worth of debt for GM.  This is going to be 'additionally' included in the 700 billion?  I thought the 700 billion was bailing out wall street.  Wow. If they make a stink about Palin's bridge to nowhere (and at the time it was a good idea for the people who lived on a particular island to be able to drive and not have to fly out) and it would have been ACTUAL BRIDGE  you can ACTUALLY see - how is this worse than bailing out wall street, car industries, the banks - and never see anything ever again!

AIG took off with bonuses for their companies higher ups?  What about shareholders in all this.   Will GM's shareholders only get 30 cents on the dollar (and dropping by the day).  It's just so sad.  I can't help but wonder if ALL politics is just corrupt and illegal. 

But, what will happen well it's Chicago politics to boot?  I mean - I'd rather have small town politics.  But, they say that 'people don't want that.'  Why not?  What's the matter with being more transparent?  Small town people are not any different than white, hispanic, black, arabic - you name it - so WHY does Obama say that 'we don't want small town politics?'  I think Blagoveich may just hold some 'baggage' that will make the entire USA look pretty funny in a year or so.  You know - he gets out of jail again by a Saudi billionaire or something.  Obama will  say 'I didn't know about this.'  And, then the illinois senate seat will be the saudi billionaire. 

But who the hell cares? This is politics - international, national, regional, local, home; we cannot avoid any of it, although we can at the same time react to and against any part of it that we so choose whenever it might or might not happen to suit us and to whatever extent that we may happen to be allowed and in any position to do so. Please do try to understand that the stability of US, UK, the Eurozone, India, China and anywhere else that you may or may not care to name has no more inbuilt and inherent guarantees than has any kind of mytihical or other "one world (dis?)order"; there are no guarantess at all in any of this, nor will there ever be such. So - please do try to lay off all of this Americanocentric patriotic rubbish in a situation where we are all interlinked and each of our nations may - and almost certainly will - bring down all the others. Forget it, Susan - the days of empire are over but at the same time the "second coming" and other like stuff that you tend to promote has no better chance than what may be left in its wake.

Best,

Alistair

[G.W.K]

I find it amusing how pianistimo, and other Americans, constantly preach "We're free! We have freedom and free speech! We are the wonderful, powerful country!" etc. Yet America probably has the largest amount of problems.

Compare America to Britain: Americans go about shooting each other and blowing houses up because their neighbour shouted at their cat in the morning. British people don't do that. They'll only stab each other for more...worthwhile?...reasons.

America bomb people/countries that are having a political debate with another country that doesn't involve America in any way! Yet they feel the need to involve themselves and cause more trouble. The Iraq wars would probably have ceased a couple of years ago if America were not involved.

Susan - yes, you can believe what you want. You do have that right. However, you cannot change the world (like Gordon Brown thinks he can...LOL). Why are you so reluctant to accept that? There are good and bad things in the world ~ and a female, middle-aged, American Christian cannot change that. Not by the power of prayer, God or an internet forum.

G.W.K

[timothy42b]

It is not for me to say whether or not the word that Susan used was right or wrong - merely to respond to what she has written.

Best,

Alistair

Sorry.
I was going for humor, missed and gave offence instead.  That was not my intent.

If you have to explain the joke, it was bad.  But I'll do it anyway as the list is international.

The candidate susan supported in the last election made a big deal of being a maverick, unafraid to go with his conscience against the wishes of his party, and his running mate used the word in every other sentence.  And it was apparently true early in his career, but he had supported the current party line more recently and lost the moral high ground and the election. 

Besides, we all know Jesus was not a radical but a communist.  Hee, hee. 

[pianistimo]

I don't expect to change things.  Just stating how i think about the issues.  And, i don't think John McCain in ANY way lost the high ground.  After all, he sufferred in a prison camp for a reason.  I think it is because he still has a chance to show people that life isn't all about bailouts.  You know - he chose to be there because he was offerred release and he wouldn't go before his compatriots.  That meant sufferring more years with broken leg, arms, whatever - he was in pain.  Pain and overcoming it all is amazingly simple with some people.  They may be maverick, radical - whatever!  but, they are not overcome with physical sensations to the point as to be made helpless in life.   They don't expect bailouts at every turn.

If Jesus Christ is a true communist - why the idea of personal property returning to the rightful owners at the 'year of jubilee' every 50 years - and at the millenium the entire region of the 'land of Israel' returning to it's rightful owners to the ones that G-d gave the land to?  This is antithesis of governments that TAKE property and never in a million years return it.  And, if he is communist - why does He trust G-d the Father and not some dictator?

[thalbergmad]

After all, he sufferred in a prison camp for a reason. 

The only reason he suffered in a prison camp was because he got captured.

There is no other reason.

Thal