i have returned from pf gitmo

[ahinton]

I hate to mention this, but the mere fact that you, Susan, appear to have returned like a prodigal someone-or-other to this forum following a period of what one may assume to have been enforced exclusion therefrom does not mean that everyone here is an American; your loquacious lucubrations here appear to be all about some kind of obscurantist and convoluted commentary on something to do with American politics, phrased nevertheless as though it must directly affect each and every one of us as though we are all citizens of a country whose very currency is, like that of the one from which I write, under threat and which may eventually disappear off the economic radar altogether.

Best,

Alistair

[pianowolfi]

As far as I know 'cojones' is Spanish, isn't it? I think it must have got picked up from the many Spanish-speaking Americans and came into general use, and then spread across the Atlantic to the UK. It's not the commonest term here for that particular item of anatomy, though.

Yes it's Spanish. These things use to spread the fastest, I think . Perhaps Amerigo Vespucci learnt it already in Spain and then, when he first arrived at the newly discovered coast he said it out of astonishment

[pianistimo]

Hopefully, he will introduce enforced steralisation of religious fanatics, so people like you cannot breed.

Thal

During the 30's  when the NAZI's were in power - this was a real problem.  Along with the use of psychologists and sociopaths who wanted 'brain control.'  We have many more sophisticated methods now of stunning people, confusing their brains with various waves of whatever, and stealthy manner of sabotaging people both in psychological and banking practices.  Only now - 70 + years after the fact, is there talk about reparations of the horrible things that were done to people on the basis that one side had a right to take away the human rights of another.

And, now - this kind of speech is allowed again.  70 years is a decent amount of time for people to forget what freedom means.  Thal - you obviously don't understand the cause you are fighting for.  It's completely a one-world-order - and it will be much like the old Rome.  Whoever diagrees is nixed.  That's really sweet.  Hope you have a good evening and read some history instead of putting your funnel brain to some kind of diatribe you get from a higher-upper - at risk of your life.  You see - that's the way hitler worked.  Nobody would have worked for him - had their lives not been at stake.

What do you fear?  Death.  THat's nothing according to the bible.  Stand up for what you believe.  After all - G-d warned us of this lawless age - and that many would 'fall away'  Fall away from what?  From knowing G-d to believing a lie.  That is why they will be ashamed when they see the King of Glory.

[thalbergmad]

What do you fear?  Death. 

No, I fear people like you.

Congratulations on getting in a few posts before mentioning God and the Bible.

Now do us all a favour and piss off.

Thal

[G.W.K]

Now do us all a favour and piss off.

Well said!

I think I'll also take some of your previous advice and such state "YAWN!" to particular members' long, tedious paragraphs who refuse to accept that fact that they do behave like little brats that don't get their own way and throw a temper tantrum for attention.

G.W.K

[richard black]

Thal - you obviously don't understand the cause you are fighting for.  It's completely a one-world-order

Oh - I thought that's what the religious right in the USA were fighting for.

[ahinton]

Oh - I thought that's what the religious right in the USA were fighting for.

Then let them get on with it, if they must, as long as they try not to do it within spitting distance of my composition desk. The religious right in US and elsewhere (but perhaps especially in US) will soon have few weapons with which to fight anything, if for no better reason than that all such weaponry requires financing and all such financing presupposes that someone has money and is prepared to invest it in such stuff - surely an ever-increasingly (and thankfully) dubious circumstance in these times.

I still have no idea what "pf gitmo" is and, in the absence of any suggesed definition thereof, am wondering why anyone should care...

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

What I am talking about is freedom. 

Freedom?

Pianistimo, can you say Patriot Act?  Can you say Guantanamo Bay?  What administration brought us those two? 

Honestly, you were more rational quoting the Bible.  I wish you'd go back to religious debates, they made more sense.  You made more sense.  And your sermons weren't as long as your political monologues. 

[thalbergmad]

I wish you'd go back to religious debates, they made more sense. 

For the sake of all of us, please delete this.

Thal

[ahinton]

For the sake of all of us, please delete this.

Do you think that it would make any difference one way or the other? - and will someone please explain what "pf gitmo" is and whether or not it is necessarily confined to a term of 40 days and as many nights?

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

Do you think that it would make any difference one way or the other? - and will someone please explain what "pf gitmo" is and whether or not it is necessarily confined to a term of 40 days and as many nights?

Best,

Alistair

While I confess I have no idea what susan intended with her title, I can make a guess at the shorthand. 

pf = piano forum

gitmo = slang term for the military installation in Cuba at Guantanamo Bay used as a detention center for captives. 

Apparently susan has been freed, considered no longer dangerous. 

Curiously I am more irritated now that she is a political crank instead of a religious one.  Super religious types get the benefit of a certain amount of halo effect, we expect and tolerate more wackiness out of them.   And her sermons were less meanspirited.  I really do wish she'd go back to that. 

[ahinton]

While I confess I have no idea what susan intended with her title, I can make a guess at the shorthand. 

pf = piano forum

gitmo = slang term for the military installation in Cuba at Guantanamo Bay used as a detention center for captives.

Thank you for this explanation.

Apparently susan has been freed, considered no longer dangerous. 

Would that other innocents had been able to escape so easily and so soon...

Curiously I am more irritated now that she is a political crank instead of a religious one.  Super religious types get the benefit of a certain amount of halo effect, we expect and tolerate more wackiness out of them.   And her sermons were less meanspirited.  I really do wish she'd go back to that. 

I note your (discreet?) use of the word "instead". I do not think that we need either the interminable sermonisings of an apparently devout subscriber to one very particular Christian sect any more than we require even more voluminous examples of equally particularised Americanocentric political incomprehensibility; the persistency of the former has constantly irritated many members here and the equally sectarian (as far as I can understand it at all) nature of the latter seems studiously to avoid due recognition both that many members are not Americans and that most people here (myself included) seem not to grasp what is being written supposedly in the name of current American politics. "Freedom", for example, cannot exist in vacuo; one can be free from something or to do something, but not merely "free" in and of itself.

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

'halo effect?'  wow.  I didn't know i had that sort of affect on YOU - timothy - but then again...since i've been thinking about all of this - it does tie into the bible when you think about it.

ok.  There's Nimrod.  The towel of babel (btw - the UN has a building figured after Brughel's picture of the half built thing).  There's Ham, the father of the peoples who began building Egypt - and the Egyptian dynasties which carried on the system of Nimrod (sunworship) and mysticism.  Basically, it's Christianized form is 'coptic' with the sun behind people's heads.  There has always been this push and pull between the sons of Shem and the sons of Ham.  But, neither is lesser than the other - according to the bible we are all sinners.  Japheth was said to be the eastern nationalities that had more of the Oriental nationalities - and was equally a child of G-d.

Now...at the tower of Babel - G-d himself confounded the nations from building a 'one world system.'  He said 'split up' and their languages were suddenly confounded.  They began to travel in groups of people and have what we now call 'native languages.' In fact - there was a huge earthquake in the time of a man Peleg and water divided more continents (according to my limited understanding of the words 'and the world was divided').  They were no longer able to travel freely - as we are today - and combine their systems and cultures. 

There have been several World Empires since then - as we all know from our history books.  The Greek, Roman, Ottoman, and whatever else you can name.  Not having read about this recently - i haven't remembered all the dates and times - but i do remember when the United Nations began working to build another one world system.  Basically around 1945.  Right?  We had the impression that all our countries were going to maintain their individual sovereignty - and yet be a part of a peaceful system for the world.

The education system in all parts of the world began introducing the ideals of the system.  To attract all nationalities and persuasions, an agenda began to be formed of having more and more peoples mix races.  The mixed race agenda became an ideal to a one world system.  Because of all the possible mixes with Obama's heritage - we have people in three or four countries that would possibly accept him as a leader as much as in the USA.  We have Indonesia, Africa, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and USA as all very interested partners under a 'universal' type of leader.  This is quite curious and interesting to me.

[db05]

OMG-d, i didn't know you could type such a big post here. Ma'am pianistimo has really outdone herself recently.

[richard black]

Pianistimo, there is no apostrophe in the possessive pronoun 'its'. And there is a difference between a comma and a dash. And for what it's worth, while the name of the deity to whom you refer may be G-d or God on Fred or whatever, the noun 'god' as in 'the god of Israel' has no capital letter and no dash in the middle.

[pianistimo]

Thank you for your points on the word 'its.'  I often make that mistake while typing fast and i'm sorry.  About G-d.  It is a sign of respect in the Jewish faith to not take G-d's name in vain.  However, somehow I feel like I personally know Him and often interchange the full name for the partial name.  To me, that is also a sign of respect.  After all, if you pray to someone every day - you should be allowed to say His name.  I am a follower of what the bible calls 'the Way.'  The early disciples recognized that Jesus had been ressurrected from the dead (after all, they were the first witnesses) and so 'the Way' was  much maligned by the Romans even after they witnessed the huge earthquake and all the accompanying signs of Jesus ressurrection which included many people rising from the dead.  It is said that at this point in history many amazing things happened.  In China, the Yellow river is said to have begun flowing in the opposite direction.  I have no idea if this is true or not - but I believe G-d is all powerful.

Say...for all you Egyptian history buffs - a bust of one of the Pharoahs was recently found.  You can read it here:  https://article.wn.com/view/2008/09/25/Bust_of_Ramses_II_found/  Am looking for a picture.

**even when i am logged out - my name is logged in? 

I logged back in to add this - a muslim cleric here is asking Obama to return to his roots.  To renounce Christianity and renew Muslim conversion (don't know if they convert at birth or not): https://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=U9kOCxu0dvk

[richard black]

Someone asked, and I just found out the answer quite by chance - 'gitmo' is short-form slang for Guantanamo, as in G. Bay of ill repute. 'Cos obviously a straightforward name with three pure vowels and a diphthong is far too long to say complete....

[G.W.K]

Oh good god almighty, like village of the damned here...only the internet version.

(Kidding!)

G.W.K

[thalbergmad]

It is said that at this point in history many amazing things happened. 

What would really be amazing is if you were to shut up.

Thal

[pianistimo]

G-d has told me the same.  After all, i'm not an official spokesperson, per se, just one of those random disciples that wants to tell people about the difference between a world of love and world of hate.  Many people see the same dream through different lenses.  Here is a speech of malcom -x: https://www.malcolm-x.org/speeches/spc_120463.htm

He does not deny G-d, nor 'the prophets,' and it seems the only dissimilarity is the faith in Muhammad teaching a way of life vs. Jesus Christ BEING the way and the life.  There is much sense in the way each group of humans on this earth want justice.  And, there is much truth that all of the governments today do not provide true justice.  If the jews should get holocaust reparations, why should not the blacks receive slavery reparations.  But, then, we also have the dilemma of entire blocks of races going back 10-20-30 - hundreds of years - and who is responsible?  THOSE THAT LIVED THEN.  Live your life now.  Freely, truthfully, and without remorse.  Live without fear, live with G-d, and live wisely for the time is short for all of us.  Why kill?  Why revenge?  It's not really according to Muhammad OR Jesus Christ is it?  I don't think Muhammad would be a prophet of G-d if he spoke different words than Jesus Christ - and Jesus Christ said 'love Thy neighbor.' 

If only people could see into the future as G-d does!  He doesn't want to punish the United States or Britain or any country that has been granted blessings for obedience to the laws of the Torah (yes - it goes back to Abraham and Moses for us, too).  But, the idea of slavery is not unbiblical in early testaments in EITHER Ishmael's line or Issac's.  Nowdays, slaves can simply be a person indebted to a bank by a credit card.  Back in the bible times - if you were indebted - you had to work to pay off debts.  It's really a misnomer as though slavery is gone.  It's never completely gone. 

But, there is always a freedom of the mind.  That is where 'joy' and 'contentment' come in.  There are amazing situations where people realize satisfaction exactly where they are.  No matter the situation.  And, they overcome jealousy and rage by meditating not only on the situation and how they can best remedy it - but also by being prudent as to where they put their treasure.  Jesus Christ told us to store up 'treasure in heaven'...for where your treasure is - that's where your heart is (abridged version).  If we ALL have treasure coming to us from  G-d, what is there to get jealous about.  He says 'I go to prepare a place for you....'  He's been doing that for 2000 years.  Should we be surprised that when he returns He is like that landowner of his parable?  That we are SLAVES TO HIM.  Not evil slaves that beat our fellow man - but righteous men/women that treat others well so that our own reward is similar. 

[richard black]

Apparently Obama is American enough after all:

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7771937.stm

[G.W.K]

G-d has told me the same.  After all, i'm not an official spokesperson, per se, just one of those random disciples that wants to tell people about the difference between a world of love and world of hate.

I see, on first-name terms with him, are we? Do you regularly have a little chat with him? You know...drink a cup of coffee whilst eating toasted crumpets and discussing how Obama (who would have been one of God's creations!) is unfit to be President, in your eyes? 

"...random disciples..."? You must have had a long paper run, didn't Jesus's disciples die roughly 2000 years ago?

G.W.K

[shortyshort]

And for what it's worth, while the name of the deity to whom you refer may be G-d or God or Fred or whatever, the noun 'god' as in 'the god of Israel' has no capital letter and no dash in the middle.

Perhaps we can fill in the gap with an "i", and add "eon" to the end. (because that how long it takes to read her posts).

I understand what she is trying to say now.

[ahinton]

Perhaps we can fill in the gap with an "i", and add "eon" to the end. (because that how long it takes to read her posts).

I understand what she is trying to say now.

Perhaps you and/or others can do whatever you may or may not want; personally, I simply cannot fathom what's going on in these posts and I can so far only conclude that there is little or nothing present in them that actually appears to mean anything that the rest of us can hope to grasp, be it of religious or political bent. I would like to be able to think otherwise, but it seems impossible. I'm pleased that you understand, because I am still having problems with what strikes me as incoherence rather than inchoateness...

Best,

Alistair

[G.W.K]

I understand what she is trying to say now.

Translate for us then!

G.W.K

[timothy42b]

When i thought she was just a pleasant netloon I enjoyed some of the conversations.

Now I fear she's actually decompensated and I don't want to be part of teasing a handicapped person.  I'm going to avoid these interactions.  

[G.W.K]

Now I fear she's actually decompensated and I don't want to be part of teasing a handicapped person.

Since when has she been "handicapped"? There has been no mention of this before...

G.W.K

[richard black]

Now I fear she's actually decompensated

I thought that was something that only happened to electronic circuits.

[thalbergmad]

G-d has told me the same. 

You are pathetic, there is no other word for it.

Your posts mean nothing and it seems you are in the last throes of complete brekdown.

Seek help immediately for your sake.

Thal

[ahinton]

I thought that was something that only happened to electronic circuits.

Might not one of life's sadnesses be that one sometimes ends up discovering things that one would rather not have had to discover? - that said, the circuitry reference might be thought to seem appropriate in a situation where not only what goes around comes around but where ever-decreasing circles of questionable thought appear all too obviously to be the (dis)order of the day...

Best,

Alistair

[timothy42b]

that said, the circuitry reference might be thought to seem appropriate in a situation where not only what goes around comes around but where ever-decreasing circles of questionable thought appear all too obviously to be the (dis)order of the day...

Best,

Alistair

Ah,  ........ except it wasn't a circuitry reference.  I absent mindedly slipped into jargon thinking it was common usage.  Unfortunately before I became an engineer I went to graduate school for clinical psychology, and worked a number of years in mental hospitals.  Decompensation is a technical term referring to a mental patient whose condition declines such that they lose touch with reality.  Maybe it's no longer used, I've been an engineer a long time now. 

[mad_max2024]

Maybe it's no longer used, I've been an engineer a long time now. 

Here in Portugal it is used commonly, even by uneducated people.

[ahinton]

Ah,  ........ except it wasn't a circuitry reference.

Well, it has become one now, even if only within these hallowed portals!

I absent mindedly slipped into jargon thinking it was common usage.  Unfortunately before I became an engineer I went to graduate school for clinical psychology, and worked a number of years in mental hospitals.  Decompensation is a technical term referring to a mental patient whose condition declines such that they lose touch with reality.  Maybe it's no longer used, I've been an engineer a long time now. 

All that said, I doubt that some would deny that certain of us here could do with abit of de compensation for some of what's been written here, whether that be of the clinically psychological or electronic variety...

Best,

Alistair

[mad_max2024]

All that said, I doubt that some would deny that certain of us here could do with abit of de compensation for some of what's been written here, whether that be of the clinically psychological or electronic variety...

Only those who have actually read it.
Considering the length and interest of the posts, I don't think many people have...

[pianistimo]

The Donofrio case started with a FALSE premise which completely overlooked the issue that was in the middle of the Berg case (which requested the writ).  Donofrio states 'OBama was born in Hawaii.'  How does he know this?  Of course, the Supreme Court will do whatever it needs to to make sure other lawyers present an 'official looking case' so that it is solved once and for all.   But, is it?  Who has seen the birth certificate (since nobody in Hawaii has witnessed his birth.  No doctor.  No nurse.  No hospital).  We have here - a case of really not knowing anything more about OBama than we started with.

All some Americans want is to have the Supreme Court help with what should have been done wayyy before now.  To properly vet Obama by having him produce the same things that regular folk are when they go to the airport , get a passport, etc.  To prove that they are actually an American citizen.  Some do this by 'naturalization' - others by being born here.  Which is he?  Has he even sworn allegiance to the flag of America.  Does he swear allegiance to it?  Just wondering.

Yes.  I pray.  I meditate.  And, I do hear more responses from G-d lately in terms of answers that come almost immediately to my questions.  I have never had this happen before - but i don't expect any of you to fully understand until it happens to you.  I hope it does someday.  Anyways, I'm no better than you, and that is why I say 'random' disciple.  You see...God can make a disciple out of a rock.  And, if i am handicapped - so be it.  I might be a little daft at times, but I am solidly for understanding a situation before making a decision.  Something i wish i could say for 98% of those who voted for Obama.  Yes. religion and politics.  All we are lacking here is sex.  Please don't start on that for me.  I've heard enough tonight already.  Something about a 13 year old girl who put up pictures of herself on a cell phone and then sues the school she goes to for sharing the pictures with teachers and principal?  It's a sad world we live in.  But, i think the problem here is that while the Netherlands starts making laws again to avoid a lot of drug problems - we are headed down the 'free life' road and thinking there's no dead end.

[lostinidlewonder]

American politics is so dirty. Honestly if you ask me, an outsider who doesn't live in the US, anyone you chose to replace Bush is an improvement. Who cares about the nitty gritty details about someone, isn't what important observing what they actually change and improve upon in the country? People can get drunk on politicians words sometimes, where is the action! I would prefer a politician who doesn't regard his religious perspectives as a sole driving force behind his political actions. Religion and Politics, what a messy mix, and it seems the US concept of Christianity in politics is taken much more seriously than elsewhere.

[kelly_kelly]

Religion and Politics, what a messy mix, and it seems the US concept of Christianity in politics is taken much more seriously than elsewhere.

Tell me about it... Listening to people like pianistimo makes me wish I lived in a different country.

[gyzzzmo]

American politics is so dirty. Honestly if you ask me, an outsider who doesn't live in the US, anyone you chose to replace Bush is an improvement. Who cares about the nitty gritty details about someone, isn't what important observing what they actually change and improve upon in the country? People can get drunk on politicians words sometimes, where is the action! I would prefer a politician who doesn't regard his religious perspectives as a sole driving force behind his political actions. Religion and Politics, what a messy mix, and it seems the US concept of Christianity in politics is taken much more seriously than elsewhere.

Plus the fact that America is hardly a democratic country.
Democracy needs objective media that can explain what a candidate stands for so people can actually make a proper choise. America doesnt have such media, since current media only tells that sells.
Also the candidates try being as vague as possible about their potential policy because that gives them a bigger chance of winning, since real explanation of policy is something the people dont want to hear (like making taxes higher).
Another thing is that the president can overrule the parlement far too easy, and the parlement is the democracy. Since Kennedy and especially Bush have silenced the parlement/congress many times to push their personal opinions about stamcel, abortion etc.
Thats not democracy, thats actually dictatorship.

Gyzzzmo

[ahinton]

The Donofrio case started with a FALSE premise which completely overlooked the issue that was in the middle of the Berg case (which requested the writ).  Donofrio states 'OBama was born in Hawaii.'  How does he know this?  Of course, the Supreme Court will do whatever it needs to to make sure other lawyers present an 'official looking case' so that it is solved once and for all.   But, is it?  Who has seen the birth certificate (since nobody in Hawaii has witnessed his birth.  No doctor.  No nurse.  No hospital).  We have here - a case of really not knowing anything more about OBama than we started with.

What are you so concerned about here? Obama has been chosen as the leader of the Democrats and they have been elected to office in your country by members of its electorate so, unless you believe, both genuinely and with good reason, that sufficient vote rigging, coercion, etc. took place in order to secure that result as distinct from the alternative one, I think that you'd better just live with it like almost everyone else and wait and see what he and his party achieve when they take office next month.

All some Americans want is to have the Supreme Court help with what should have been done wayyy before now.  To properly vet Obama by having him produce the same things that regular folk are when they go to the airport , get a passport, etc.  To prove that they are actually an American citizen.  Some do this by 'naturalization' - others by being born here.  Which is he?  Has he even sworn allegiance to the flag of America.  Does he swear allegiance to it?  Just wondering.

As I said, I think that, now that he and his party have been elected to serve the people of America, you should wait and see what he actually manages to do rather than bothering about swearing allegiances or flag-touting; symbolic gestures alone do not a successful president make. Do you genuinely suppose that, were Obama actually to have no allegiances to the United States of America, he would have wanted nevertheless to be its president or that anyone else would have wanted that either?

Yes.  I pray.  I meditate.  And, I do hear more responses from G-d lately in terms of answers that come almost immediately to my questions.  I have never had this happen before - but i don't expect any of you to fully understand until it happens to you.  I hope it does someday.

Well, lucky for you, Susan. What is certain, however, is that you are neither praying nor meditating when you spend the time that you do posting on this forum and, let's face it, quite a few of your posts lately have been immensely lengthy; you also have children to raise, a home to run, a piano to practise and work to do, so when you add up all the tme you spend in those activities and your forum ones, there can surely be very little time left for prayer and meditation anyway.

Anyways, I'm no better than you, and that is why I say 'random' disciple.  You see...God can make a disciple out of a rock.

Then why not just let Him do that if that what floats His boat? This reminds me - the render unto Cæsar bit notwithstanding - of the old chestnut that runs "if you want to get blood out of a stone, hand it to the taxman". Seriously, though, if, as you suggest, God can actually do that ("citation needed", as Wikispeak has it), He must sometimes feel as though He's between a rock and a hard place...

And, if i am handicapped - so be it.  I might be a little daft at times, but I am solidly for understanding a situation before making a decision.  Something i wish i could say for 98% of those who voted for Obama.

Is that statement intended to mean that 98% of those who voted for the Democrats understood nothing of what they were doing when voting? If so, how do you arrive at this astonishing stastitic and on what evidence do you base it? And what about those 2% who, by your implication, did know why they voted Democrat?

Yes. religion and politics.  All we are lacking here is sex.

It's rather difficult to have sex on an internet forum, wouldn't you say? I think that some people here would resent your religious and political ramblings rather less were they at least more coherent and succinct, but OK, maybe having exhausted us all here with your religion and politics stuff, perhaps you'll now write big posts about sex instead. That's not an invitation - just a fear...

Please don't start on that for me.  I've heard enough tonight already.

I think that you are "start"ing this yourself, Susan; no one here asked you to write this, so don't seek to imply blame upon them for doing so by complaining "please don't start on that for me".

Something about a 13 year old girl who put up pictures of herself on a cell phone and then sues the school she goes to for sharing the pictures with teachers and principal?  It's a sad world we live in.

That's less about sex per se than about seeking to manipulate the law for personal advantage; lots of people the world over try to do that - some even have to in order to survive...

But, i think the problem here is that while the Netherlands starts making laws again to avoid a lot of drug problems - we are headed down the 'free life' road and thinking there's no dead end.

Oh - and there I was, thinking that you are pro-"freedom" (albeit without specifying from or to do what)...

There's a dead end here, all right - and it was reached some time ago; I think that rather more than 2% of the people reading all this stuff realise that...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

'halo effect?'  wow.  I didn't know i had that sort of affect on YOU - timothy - but then again...since i've been thinking about all of this - it does tie into the bible when you think about it.
How having a "halo effect" on one member of this forum - even if true - can "tie into the Bible" whether or not anyone thinkis about it is sufficiently unclear as to be specious at best.

ok.  There's Nimrod.

Please leave Elgar's variations out of this and concentrate on your Americanocantric rants if you must.

The towel of babel

Nice one! That must be the one that I use after stepping out of the shower in the morning while listening to the cut-and-thrust arguments that characterise BBC Radio 4's Today programme...

There's Ham, the father of the peoples who began building Egypt

And there's Ham the pianist; I prefer him, personally.

- and the Egyptian dynasties which carried on the system of Nimrod (sunworship) and mysticism.  Basically, it's Christianized form is 'coptic' with the sun behind people's heads.  There has always been this push and pull between the sons of Shem and the sons of Ham.  But, neither is lesser than the other - according to the bible we are all sinners.  Japheth was said to be the eastern nationalities that had more of the Oriental nationalities

Not all of this is incorrect, but why do you go on about such issues? What point are you trying to prove about our present lives, wherever we happen to be trying to live them?

- and was equally a child of G-d.

I'm not even going there...

Now...at the tower of Babel - G-d himself confounded the nations from building a 'one world system.'  He said 'split up' and their languages were suddenly confounded.

Rather as most if not all of us here are confounded by much of yours, methinks...

They began to travel in groups of people and have what we now call 'native languages.' In fact - there was a huge earthquake in the time of a man Peleg and water divided more continents (according to my limited understanding of the words 'and the world was divided').  They were no longer able to travel freely - as we are today - and combine their systems and cultures. 

Not everyone can travel freely today, you know...

There have been several World Empires since then - as we all know from our history books.  The Greek, Roman, Ottoman, and whatever else you can name.  Not having read about this recently - i haven't remembered all the dates and times - but i do remember when the United Nations began working to build another one world system.  Basically around 1945.  Right?  We had the impression that all our countries were going to maintain their individual sovereignty - and yet be a part of a peaceful system for the world.

The education system in all parts of the world began introducing the ideals of the system.  To attract all nationalities and persuasions, an agenda began to be formed of having more and more peoples mix races.  The mixed race agenda became an ideal to a one world system.  Because of all the possible mixes with Obama's heritage - we have people in three or four countries that would possibly accept him as a leader as much as in the USA.  We have Indonesia, Africa, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and USA as all very interested partners under a 'universal' type of leader.  This is quite curious and interesting to me.

Frankly, so what? Would you only have indigenous Americans (whatever they may be) as conductors of American orchestras or heads of music conservatoires? And do you NOT want a system within which "all our countries were going to maintain their individual sovereignty - and yet be a part of a peaceful system for the world"? By the way, of your list above, Africa is not a country; it is a continent.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

American politics is so dirty.

And that of other countries isn't?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Thal writes:
What would really be amazing is if you were to shut up.

G-d has told me the same.

One rests one's case...

Best,

Alistair

[gyzzzmo]

And that of other countries isn't?

Best,

Alistair

Theres alot more childish mud-throwing during american elections than in any other western country. Plus most countries' politics are much more transparant and checkable by non-politicians.

[pianistimo]

There is a lot of difference between mud-throwing and asking if someone is telling the truth.  Many people have already said that Obama's book 'Dreams from my Father' have characters that are somewhat fictional and trumped up.  For instance, who is the 'Frank' we are talking about?  Frank Davis?  The one that is Anti-American. Obama has a lot of 'friends,' his own mother, and many that surrounded him in school were somewhat anti-American as well as anti-establishment.  Now, in the 60's that started also with young people who were tired of the government.  Yes.  all government has it's problems - but another problem can be that the 'change' that is sought is LAWLESS.  That it want's to obliterate all law and enforce marshal law instead.  This is communism.  It will 'share the wealth,' but at what cost.  Remember Stalin.  There was no 'religion' - but 'no people' too.  People died.

What makes us equal to each other?  The fourteenth ammendment (btw added by Republicans to nix slavery) adds to it - but inititially the Constitution starts on the premise that we are all equal under our Creator.  He made us in his image.  If we are made in any other image...there is more potential for slavery than less.  In fact, i would daresay the rich would be enslaved to the poor.  That might sound like a fantastic system until three  or four years down the line where the people who are knowledgeable about things are killed off (thugged) and you have groups of people who just take what they want.

Either system taken too far is not the same as the type of government that is mentioned in the bible.  You see, if a leader recognizes G-d as Abraham Lincoln did, and often prays - there is hope for the country to follow suit and hear back from
G-d.  After all, if you don't seek Him you won't find Him.  And, when He is gone you may as well take off 'In G-d We  Trust' completely.  Obama has put this on the SIDE of His minted coin instead of the front.  What does this imply?  That he is Christian? Freedom, wisdom, love, trust - these are things that only Jesus Christ can truly bring and He's coming back.  Should our government be found so corrupt as to completely deny Him.

[pianistimo]

ANd, regarding Malcom -X speeches - nobody responded!  I find this utterly facinating because we have here the REASON people want communism.  OK.  Hands up. Who is communist?  We have one person on the forum that says the good thing about communism is vodka.  Now, if you take Russian communism, the vodka is very good.  In other places, it's just moonshine.  Now, I'm not talking about the south.  They've always had moonshine.  I'm talking about other countries.  We have basically huge groups of people forced to follow 'prescribed' medical treatment INCLUDING ABORTION.  FORCED ABORTION.  FORCED EUTHANASIA.  Is this freedom?  It's certainly not biblical because it is bringing in legalized murder.

*What we need instead of 'spirits' - is the Holy Spirit.  To cleanse us and purify us to know what the perfect will of G-d is.  To live in peace and harmony and know that He is near.  That He is soon to appear and not to become anxious or worried.  He tells us in Matthew that when we see the signs of His coming to know that He has told us about this ahead of time so that we will be prepared.  He tells us of the twelve virgins.  Five had the holy spirit and five did not. 

Do you know that black people in America have sufferred the most wherever abortion is allowed?  That more black people than white people have been aborted.  Now, if one is TRULY DEMOCRATIC - would they want 1/2 someone else's population killed off?  In ANY form?

[gyzzzmo]

There is a lot of difference between mud-throwing and asking if someone is telling the truth.  Many people have already said that Obama's book 'Dreams from my Father' have characters that are somewhat fictional and trumped up.  For instance, who is the 'Frank' we are talking about?  Frank Davis?  The one that is Anti-American. Obama has a lot of 'friends,' his own mother, and many that surrounded him in school were somewhat anti-American as well as anti-establishment.  Now, in the 60's that started also with young people who were tired of the government.  Yes.  all government has it's problems - but another problem can be that the 'change' that is sought is LAWLESS.  That it want's to obliterate all law and enforce marshall law instead.  This is communism.  It will 'share the wealth,' but at what cost.  Remember Stalin.  There was no 'religion' - but 'no people' too.  People died.

What makes us equal to each other?  The fourteenth ammendment (btw added by Republicans to nix slavery) adds to it - but inititially the Constitution starts on the premise that we are all equal under our Creator.  He made us in his image.  If we are made in any other image...there is more potential for slavery than less.  In fact, i would daresay the rich would be enslaved to the poor.  That might sound like a fantastic system until three  or four years down the line where the people who are knowledgeable about things are killed off (thugged) and you have groups of people who just take what they want.

Either system taken too far is not the same as the type of government that is mentioned in the bible.  You see, if a leader recognizes G-d as Abraham Lincoln did, and often prays - there is hope for the country to follow suit and hear back from
G-d.  After all, if you don't seek Him you won't find Him.  And, when He is gone you may as well take off 'In G-d We  Trust' completely.  Obama has put this on the SIDE of His minted coin instead of the front.  What does this imply?  That he is Christian? Freedom, wisdom, love, trust - these are things that only Jesus Christ can truly bring and He's coming back.  Should our government be found so corrupt as to completely deny Him.

According to this your 'sollution' to all problems is not to have a president at all. Afterall they can only rule america the wrong way since they have a friend somewhere who might not agree with america's ways of doing. Plus (ofcourse) mr Jesus himself will become president of America!

Btw, what if God himself put Obama on the throne? You might have a serious problem then since you disagree with God himself. And dont even try debating that God himself didnt make Obama president himself, since Gods reasons are unknown, and he's definitely not going to tell some radical war-supporter like Pianistimo why he's doing things

Gyzzzmo

[gyzzzmo]

ANd, regarding Malcom -X speeches - nobody responded!  I find this utterly facinating because we have here the REASON people want communism.  OK.  Hands up. Who is communist?  We have one person on the forum that says the good thing about communism is vodka.  Now, if you take Russian communism, the vodka is very good.  In other places, it's just moonshine.  Now, I'm not talking about the south.  They've always had moonshine.  I'm talking about other countries.  We have basically huge groups of people forced to follow 'prescribed' medical treatment INCLUDING ABORTION.  FORCED ABORTION.  FORCED EUTHANASIA.  Is this freedom?  It's certainly not biblical because it is bringing in KILLING.

Alot of sillyness.
Lets try debating this like i'm a God supporter once more.....
God gave us a free will and let us decide for us self. This includes abortion and euthanasia. Do you want to say you disagree with God Himself by saying his blessing of free will was stupid? Dont you think that God knew All implications (including abortion) when he gave us free will? You think you know better than God?

[pianistimo]

I don't think anyone supports war here in the sense of killing civilians or ruining a country's structure.  Most in America did not even know we WERE going to war until it was already happening.  We did not have a vote.  In that sense, many feel that President Bush acted too hastily.  Only time and history will tell.   What would Saddam Hussein have done in this meantime?  Help Osama Bin Laden?  Probably.  Iraq would be the base as well as Afghanistan.  And, yet - we as a free people cannot help but cry for the situation in Iraq because we as a people did not purposely terrorize Iraq.  The terrorists try to make the Americans look bad even though they bring in methods of purifying water, systems to help the Iraqi women have more education, etc.  The only thing is that nobody knows who to trust anymore.  Why?  Because we take things upon ourselves instead of trusting G-d.  And, we have to respect other cultures.

Obama will probably do some very good things.  And, yes - i think that G-d may allow Him to become President.  And, I don't doubt that he will feign being Christian.  It is one thing to say 'I am Christian.'  It is another thing to worship as a Christian.  Typically, one who is a Christian does not say 'those PA people cling to guns and religion...'  if you are religious.  So what is he?  Ideologically?  I mean he says nice platitudes about helping other people.  But, CAN YOU HELP OTHER PEOPLE IF YOUR PREMISE IS THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE AUTOMATICALLY SUPERIOR?  No.  So...what this is is REVENGE.  Revenge does not get anyone anywhere.  I believe Mr. OBama needs to slow down.  Rethink.  Become HONEST.  Tell the truth.  Say that HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION AND WILL GET RID OF IT.  Then, people can vote better on whether they want a President that is LAWLESS.

On Inauguration day, the DC area has decided to allow bars to stay open until 5 am.  This is a new protocol and the President-elect has said nothing about it.  WHy?  Because he likes the idea?  Probably.  He likes the idea that people will celebrate him with the added clause that many people are likely to get hurt at the same time.  Drinking and driving, etc.  Even the police have said - 'why don't you just have certain establishments do this and not the entire city?  This is the kind of LAWS that will change.  Do we want this for our families and neighborhoods?  I would say that this is = to gambling rights which bring in m oney at what cost?  The neighborhood.  HEllo gang world.

PS What will happen in Iraq when Americans leave?  Well, for one thing - the Kurdish President will have to seek asylum with his wife - whom already has been the target of a bombing.  Who is doing the bombing?  Americans?  NO.

[gyzzzmo]

I don't think anyone supports war here.  Most in America did not even know we WERE going to war until it was already happening.  We did not have a vote.  In that sense, many feel that President Bush acted too hastily.  Only time and history will tell.   What would Saddam Hussein have done in this meantime?  Help Osama Bin Laden?  Probably.  Iraq would be the base as well as Afghanistan.  And, yet - we as a free people cannot help but cry for the situation in Iraq because we as a people did not purposely terrorize Iraq.  The terrorists try to make the Americans look bad even though they bring in methods of purifying water, systems to help the Iraqi women have more education, etc.  The only thing is that nobody knows who to trust anymore.  Why?  Because we take things upon ourselves instead of trusting G-d.  And, we have to respect other cultures.

Obama will probably do some very good things.  And, yes - i think that G-d may allow Him to become President.  And, I don't doubt that he will feign being Christian.  It is one thing to say 'I am Christian.'  It is another thing to worship as a Christian.  Typically, one who is a Christian does not say 'those PA people cling to guns and religion...'  if you are religious.  So what is he?  Ideologically?  I mean he says nice platitudes about helping other people.  But, CAN YOU HELP OTHER PEOPLE IF YOUR PREMISE IS THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE AUTOMATICALLY SUPERIOR?  No.  So...what this is is REVENGE.  Revenge does not get anyone anywhere.  I believe Mr. OBama needs to slow down.  Rethink.  Become HONEST.  Tell the truth.  Say that HE DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE CONSTITUTION AND WILL GET RID OF IT.  Then, people can vote better on whether they want a President that is LAWLESS.

First, stop the caps if you want me to take you seriously. Youre not 8 years old are you?

Saying that Hussein would support Bin Laden is nonsense. There's no proof of any link between Hussein and Bin Laden and there has never been. No need of claiming there 'might be in future' and thereby talking the war in Iraq right.

About the Constitution... Why are you so certain that the constitution is that perfect? Dont you think that it might be a good thing to change it, since past has proven that the constitution has many flaws?

[pianistimo]

Responding to your previous post first, I would say that G-d has been largely ignored in politics because our government has chosen not to include Him in education.  Our children have been educated for many years without a foundation of knowledge - G-d.  If He has all -wisdom, then our wisdom would flow freely from Him.  But, our children have five days of no religion teaching to one or two days of it.  Is this really a religious country to begin with if the education system has been against it.  This is what i mean by a 'one world order.'  Get rid of G-d and communism automatically grows.  In all fairness, the education system *if it allows harry potter and sorcery* should give both sides of a story.  Also, creationism vs. evolution.  Evolution is still a theory, btw. 

The capital letters are not to indicate rage or anything.  They are to indicate the importance of a sentence.  It may not be important to you, but the premise of Malcom -X is destruction of whites.  That is something for whites to think about when they descend upon the capital for inauguration day.  It doesn't matter if you are a liberal white or a conservative white.  But, then again, peacefully, the rich and poor (of both races, btw) may coexist until all become poor and then racial rioting.  We had that with Russia where groups of people have their goods stolen.  No laws to protect them.  The Constitution protects our right to property.  Not worrying about intellectual property for the moment but actual property! 

I would like to insert here that I know many black people who are not MAlcom-X followers and whether Christian or not would not follow these ideals.  However, there are many militant groups just as bent on revenge as the KKK was.  So...it's a situation of people who want peace and people who want revenge.  I don't see the issue of color because some believe that Jesus Christ will be the one to work out the details of equality.  Some find more hope for it in the Muslim faith.  I would like to just say that as a Christian we do share a lot of values in reality.  The ideals of having a common ancestor (Abraham) who was a faithful man in all ways to G-d gives us a common hope and destiny.  G-d is not impartial.  Just like a garden - he has firstfruits.  The firstfruits were Israel, but Israel isn't the only chosen son.  He is simply used to bring in the rest of the fruit.

Hussein wanted the same things as Bin-Laden.  The destruction of America and Israel.  Why both?  Because they stand for Torah.  The laws of G-d - and he felt justified in punishing us, much like Iran and other places because they know that we have broken the laws of G-d and they say it openly.  That G-d himself will punish us through them. Malcom-X has also said this.

I suppose that what I stand for isn't really republican, independent, or anything like that.  I do think that Jesus Christ will return shortly, so in the sense of world peace - communism - whatever! we may have a 'form' of peace at a cost to this world.  Also, I believe that Christians will suffer greatly for their beliefs.  This is prophecied in the bible to happen because of lawlessness.  The basis for law is the bible. Until people recognize that - there won't be any law that is truly just.  Then, G-d will give us a comparison of the two ways.