How to develop "touch"

[duendedelpiano]

Hi,I have been playing the piano on and off for years without a teacher.so have lots of bad habits I´m now learning with a teacher which is great.My problem is that I can learn a piece fairly quickly,so I can play the notes but the whole thing doesn´t sound like music! In my head I can sing the piece with feeling but it just doesn´t come across when I play.The piece I am working on is Schuman´s Dreams,but it sounds more like anightmare when I play it! Do you have any suggestions for learning lightness of touch.It seems I can only play pp or FF.I can´t do anything in between
Many thanks

[lilla]

Well, it's best to consult with your teacher.  But my first thought is that you may need to develop better wrist action. Are you gently raising your wrist to lift off keys at the end of phrases?  Are you able to play an arpeggiated (Broken) chord while "drawing" a half moon with your wrist?  This helps keep an artistic touch and creates more balanced note tone.  Try it (although it's easier to demonstrate than to write).

[danhuyle]

Pick an easy piece and concentrate on the tone rather than the notes?
Otherwise, consult a piano teacher.

[duendedelpiano]

Thanks for the tips.I do have a piano teacher BUT she tells me not to worry and just play the piece slowly!!!! Living in the south of Spain in a tiny village I have no other recourse.But I figure a bad teacher is better than no teacher. I only get half an hour practical tuition a week and 1 hour theory.The Spanish are mad for theory in everything :)For my own part I practise scales and arpeggios trying to very the dynamic but theré´s an  awful lot of banging and crashing! It´s frustrating because I used to play clarinete and expression wasn´t a problem.
Also any tips on how to get one hand playing lightly while the other hand is more dominant?
Many thanks

[g_s_223]

Hmm, well I have recently been trying one of the approaches in Gieseking & Leimer's book on piano technique (try search for pdf): this is to play a Bach 2-part invention, first HS the HT, at extremely slow speed, e.g. quaver (1/8) = 60 bpm (a discreet background metronome tick is advisable). The core idea is to listen, with MAXIMUM ATTENTION, to every single note produced and thus gain a proper sound production mechanism, perfectly calibrated to the musical demands from pppp to ffff. It may sound trivial, but believe me, try if for a week and I think you will see results.

[quantum]

You are generally looking at two things: finer control of the playing mechanism, and developing your sensitivity to sound. 

Many people tend to focus their efforts on the physical aspects of the playing mechanism, while placing less emphasis on the auditory senses: perhaps leaning on a third party (such as a teacher) to provide input with regard to the sound.  While at the beginner stages of learning one may need a teacher to provide guidance as to the qualities of sound one can produce, the end goal is to eventually become self-sustainable in evaluating the sound one produces. 

With regard to touch, fine control of the playing mechanism and one's auditory senses are an inseparable pair.  It is one's hearing that informs the playing mechanism whether or not its actions are precise.  As one of my teachers frequently said: "if you can hear it, you have the ability to make that sound." 

[dima_76557]

With regard to touch, fine control of the playing mechanism and one's auditory senses are an inseparable pair.  It is one's hearing that informs the playing mechanism whether or not its actions are precise.  As one of my teachers frequently said: "if you can hear it, you have the ability to make that sound."

Sentence of teacher only partly true.

First you must have image of sound picture in brain (result of much listening to masters)
Second you must know how to create what sound with what movement.
Third you have ears to CHECK result. If you have not 1 and 2, ears will not help.

It is like painting. If person wants to paint in Flemish School style, he must first have knowledge about what brush to choose, what canvas to choose, how to mix colors, how to distribute objects on canvas for balance, etc. He can paint and paint, try and try to make beautful art, but his eyes will not help if he does not have strong craft knowledge.

[hardy_practice]

First you must have image of sound picture in brain (result of much listening to masters)

I disagree.  Trying to make the sound of masters on your piano is fruitless.  It's a different instrument!  You need to search for your own sound.  That takes a degree of imagination.  I agree with quantum's teacher - knowing it when you hear it is the key.

[dima_76557]

I disagree.  Trying to make the sound of masters on your piano is fruitless.  It's a different instrument!  You need to search for your own sound.  That takes a degree of imagination.  I agree with quantum's teacher - knowing it when you hear it is the key.

I did not mean IMITATE because that is impossible, even on same instrument as master. I talk about cultural development of sound image, quality standard to strive for which does not come by itself by simply repeating on instrument, but by analytical listening to masters. Much like in writing: if person wants to become good writer, he has to READ much work by others first, otherwise there will be no standard of what good writing is. Practising writing alone (trial and error method) does not help improvement very well in arts.

[hardy_practice]

I agree a musician must live in his/her own milieu, but also they must be directed by their ear, not the mechanics.

[dima_76557]

I agree a musician must live in his/her own milieu, but also they must be directed by their ear, not the mechanics.

You - sure? Paul (p2u_) made me play on dumb keyboard (no sound) for some time last week. Very difficult first, but unbelievable how ears improved without using them to play.
p.s.: Paul never talks about mechanics. His way always: no art without craft, no craft without art. All is one.

[quantum]

First you must have image of sound picture in brain (result of much listening to masters)
Second you must know how to create what sound with what movement.
Third you have ears to CHECK result. If you have not 1 and 2, ears will not help.

The statement still agrees with your procedure.  The term "hear" was not explicitly defined as belonging solely to the realm of ears.  As you suggest one can also hear in one's mind. 

I would have to disagree with your second point.  One does not need to know the movement necessary to create a sound.  If one were constricted to a list of predefined known movements, one unnecessarily restricts the available solution set.  Being presented with a sound problem that does not fit known predefined movements may result in a haphazard solution of trying to make a physical technique fit where it does not really belong.  First and foremost the sound must inform the movement, whether or not the movement be known or unknown.  Placing the focus on the discovery of a movement solution that best fits the desired sound, rather than picking from a multiple choice list, leads to the most direct and relevant solution.  Placing the focus on discovery also establishes the mindset of continually enlarging one's body of knowledge with regard to auditory-mechanical relationships, as opposed to falling back on the comfort of familiar predetermined solutions.

[dima_76557]

Placing the focus on the discovery of a movement solution that best fits the desired sound, rather than picking from a multiple choice list, leads to the most direct and relevant solution.  Placing the focus on discovery also establishes the mindset of continually enlarging one's body of knowledge with regard to auditory-mechanical relationships, as opposed to falling back on the comfort of familiar predetermined solutions.

I can very much agree with you for people who already masters, but I am in doubt a bit about learners like OP. Problem: a push movement with arm found by experiment, for a sample, may be good to get certain sound in easy or moderate music but if person uses this as habit solution for that sound quality, it may block development into virtuoso level. In advanced music person not has so many options to move. You do it correct or not correct. If not good, you cannot play that level. Very simple. Important to know what works on all levels if person wants to become master, so no re-training will be necessary in future.

[j_menz]

I can very much agree with you for people who already masters, but I am in doubt a bit about learners like OP. Problem: a push movement with arm found by experiment, for a sample, may be good to get certain sound in easy or moderate music but if person uses this as habit solution for that sound quality, it may block development into virtuoso level. In advanced music person not has so many options to move. You do it correct or not correct. If not good, you cannot play that level. Very simple. Important to know what works on all levels if person wants to become master, so no re-training will be necessary in future.

I do not think that an earlier student can have much understanding of what works in advanced  virtuosic pieces in terms of what are effective and efficient movements.  The best they can do is learn to feel how they are playing, and use that feeling to avoid mechanical problems, at the stage they are at.  That component is important, but so is developing the ability to use the desired sound to produce the movement.  Quantum is correct in what he says, though that additional feel element regarding strain/awkwardness and unreliability is (increasingly) important too.

Also, in pieces that do not demand great virtuosic feats, there is no need to limit ones actions to only those that would work if it did. One must play the piece one is playing.

EDIT: Additional. On reading your posts bove, you seem to be saying that the ability to produce the sound you want is part of the art of playing the piano. It's not. It is very much part of the craft. The art comes from making the sounds you want (and then produce) the vehicle to express interesting or profound ideas.

[dima_76557]

On reading your posts bove, you seem to be saying that the ability to produce the sound you want is part of the art of playing the piano. It's not. It is very much part of the craft. The art comes from making the sounds you want (and then produce) the vehicle to express interesting or profound ideas.

Maybe I wrote something unclear. This is my idea: "Touch" = craft (something you must KNOW how to do) in the service of art (higher ideas). Students should learn this craft from expert-teacher if they are not genius. Without it, there can be no real high-level art, even if person has very interesting or profound ideas for certain pieces.

I think people here can agree that G. Cziffra, for a sample, had very good ears, much much knowledge as composer, had intresting and profound ideas, but practised like this (here last Schumann's Symphonic Etude), even just before concert as he says in French interview "to check hands and muscles":

Why, if ears and taste simply determine everything?

[j_menz]

Maybe I wrote something unclear. This is my idea: "Touch" = craft (something you must KNOW how to do) in the service of art (higher ideas). Students should learn this craft from expert-teacher if they are not genius. Without it, there can be no real high-level art, even if person has very interesting or profound ideas for certain pieces.

I agree entirely. I must have misunderstood what you were saying earlier.

Why, if ears simply determine everything?

Different stage of the process, I think. I haven't used one of those, so can't speak with authority, but I believe the purpose is to lock in the movements with the idealised imagined sound uncorrupted by the actual sound? What was your experience?

[dima_76557]

Different stage of the process, I think. I haven't used one of those, so can't speak with authority, but I believe the purpose is to lock in the movements with the idealised imagined sound uncorrupted by the actual sound? What was your experience?

For now: confusion.

I understand now that sound is in head and fingers/body act somehow as result to expectation inside head. Ears check AFTER the act to see if I did it correct, but when I hear incorrect result, it is already too late. Silent keyboard takes away element and you are forced to concentrate very well on body awareness and sound inside head. You also learn something about cause-result, but I don't know yet what exactly. More I can not say. I ordered silent keyboard for myself now to experiment.
P.S.: That is maybe why many students - so sad: They hear bad result but can do nothing because they do not know how to change bad result to good one.

[j_menz]

For now: confusion.

I understand now that sound is in head and fingers/body act somehow as result to expectation inside head. Ears check AFTER the act to see if I did it correct, but when I hear incorrect result, it is already too late. Silent keyboard takes away element and you are forced to concentrate very well on body awareness and sound inside head. You also learn something about cause-result, but I don't know yet what exactly. More I can not say. I ordered silent keyboard for myself now to experiment.
P.S.: That is maybe why many students - so sad: They hear bad result but can do nothing because they do not know how to change bad result to good one.

That lines up, I think, with what I was thinking. I do hope you let us know how you get on with more use of it; it's an interesting idea.

[birba]

Very interesting that video on cziffra.  I think it would be interesting to post practise sessions.  I'm always curious to know how others practise.  Cziffra said this practise session was for the hands and the muscles.  I always thought he had that argerich type of "learning" that didn't require "practising"!  I, too, had that silent keyboard when i was in school (before digital science) and used it a lot.  I love the way he can talk while playing, ignoring the rhythms in the hands.  I could NEVER do that!!!  Complete independence of the muscles and the mind.  I think jazz  and cocktail pianists have that ability.  In fact, cziffra was a fine pianist in all the fields.
But we're getting off the subject.  I think just the fact that duendel is searching for tone and sound is going to help him.  I get the impression he hasn't been studying he piano that long and it takes time just to master the independence between the right and left hand.  A little bit like patting your head and rubbing your stomach at the same time.  I remember i would play the left hand legato and raise and sort of punch out the notes with my right hand. (Not very conducive in developing a singing tone, however...)
I'm curious as to where you live, duendel.  I'd love to spend the next winter in southern spain!!

[hardy_practice]

In advanced music person not has so many options to move. You do it correct or not correct. If not good, you cannot play that level. Very simple. Important to know what works on all levels if person wants to become master, so no re-training will be necessary in future.

That's where the teacher comes in.  The body works hand in hand (pardon the pun) with the ear to produce music.  A teacher is required to point out any false turns - the student only needing to engage in mechanics when things are going down the wrong path.

[dima_76557]

That's where the teacher comes in.  The body works hand in hand (pardon the pun) with the ear to produce music.  A teacher is required to point out any false turns - the student only needing to engage in mechanics when things are going down the wrong path.

Why wait until student goes wrong way? Why not show/teach good movements and fingertips concentration for beautiful touch from beginning? Touch is Alpha and Omega of piano technique. Without that everything is useless. Besides, very difficult to correct afterwards, especially if student - ambitious and practises much. Correction afterwards causes much lost time and motivation may disappear completely. I lost total 5 years of life doing everything wrong. Shame on first teacher who just repeated relax, listen and not worry!

[nyiregyhazi]

That's where the teacher comes in.  The body works hand in hand (pardon the pun) with the ear to produce music.  A teacher is required to point out any false turns - the student only needing to engage in mechanics when things are going down the wrong path.

Yes, you "only" need to intervene with those few students who are unable to divine the perfect technique of a Volodos, without any assistance. The rest are fine left to their own devices.

[hardy_practice]

Why wait until student goes wrong way? Why not show/teach good movements and fingertips concentration for beautiful touch from beginning?

True beginners come with good movements - it's nature's way.  All they need is guidance where they don't quite find their way.  Those that come riddled with bad habits, well that's another story.

[dima_76557]

True beginners come with good movements - it's nature's way.  All they need is guidance where they don't quite find their way.  Those that come riddled with bad habits, well that's another story.

Not all beginners come with good movements, at least not in the Mother Russia.

I (parents not musicians) started at 7 with bad instructor who taught me nothing but playing pieces one after other.

Neighbor boy (parents not musicians) started at 7 but with competent instructor. After 4 years, he played Chopin ballades with good quality and I still "pling-pling, plunk-plunk" simple Kuhlau without quality and with instructed artificial "feeling".

Father beat me up because I was "lazy" and not so "talented" as neighbor boy. I worked really hard but in wrong way. Later, much later, when I got better instructor, parents understood that "untalented" and "lazy" was not reason for my bad playing and until now do not know how to apologize before me.

[hardy_practice]

Sorry to hear about your poor experience but as a 7 year old, new to the piano, you would have had no bad habits or at least none that would last longer than it takes for the teacher to point them out.  Your misfortune was to be instructed by a teacher who told you what to do rather than one who told you what not to do.

[hozepshad]

It seems I can only play pp or FF.I can´t do anything in between

I thought I could only play pp or FF too, but it turned out that it was only p and F, so maybe you should try to play louder and softer instead of something in between.

[dima_76557]

Your misfortune was to be instructed by a teacher who told you what to do rather than one who told you what not to do.

I'm afraid the reverse. Second teacher told me exactly WHAT to do and HOW to do to get contact with the instrument, and I followed her instructions to the letter. Not ideal but better results came quickly.

First one was person only interested in music school syllabus and children's repertoire like bean counter. Technical instructions: "Not this key, that key. Relax and listen, etc. Nature will do rest", a bit softer here, a bit louder there, and hundreds of metaphors what to imagine while playing childish pieces, but it did not click in my head. No contact with instrument, you see? In such way student will be 95 and still not play like virtuoso.

[nyiregyhazi]

True beginners come with good movements - it's nature's way.  All they need is guidance where they don't quite find their way.  Those that come riddled with bad habits, well that's another story.

I don't know whether you're the type of deluded optimist who believes that a half empty glass is not just half full but completely full, but that's plain stupid. It takes time for bad habits to become hardwired. However, it's very poor logic to leap to the assumption that we naturally start with the right quality of movement. We are not born knowing the efficient way to press a piano key. If we were, self learners would all be thriving. They are not. You might as well argue that complete beginners come to a golf swing with good movement. Just because ruinous habits are not ingrained, it does not mean that nature creates good technique. It simply hasn't hardwired the problems in typical instincts.

Perhaps you tell a chef how to make a recipe by doing nothing but stopping him every time he adds something unwanted (from a huge selection of random ingredients) . Personally, I find it much quicker to list what you do need to put in- rather than leave them to guess and then pick at their inevitable wealth of errors.

[hardy_practice]

We are not born knowing the efficient way to press a piano key. If we were, self learners would all be thriving.

Self learners quickly develop bad habits that then get ingrained.  It's as simple as that.

[nyiregyhazi]

Self learners quickly develop bad habits that then get ingrained.  It's as simple as that.

Precisely. They don't start with good movement. They simply start from a position where bad movement is not hardwired, but becomes so. There's no magic starting point that deteriorates but rather a flawed starting point that can still be replaced by good advice. the way to change flawed movement is clear positive instruction about what works. Not negative instructions about what you should be aiming not to do.

[hardy_practice]

No.  The starting point is already there - the way they feel, gesture,  embrace, grasp etc.

[nyiregyhazi]

No.  The starting point is already there - the way they feel, gesture,  embrace, grasp etc.

Sure, they start with the perfect movement of a great artist on their first notes and then mysteriously lose it. And babies are born knowing the secrets of the universe but sadly forget them just as they learn to talk. I'm not going to humour such foolish tripe with any further responses.

[dima_76557]

No.  The starting point is already there - the way they feel, gesture,  embrace, grasp etc.

Piano playing is NOT natural human instinct. Many pianists work with potentially harmful movements, they feel they play "natural" and "relaxed" because it is habit for them, and then they start teaching these movements to others, who then have to see doctor, who does not understand piano playing either and make things even worse. Dead end. Student has only 2 options: learn correctly or avoid advanced repertoire.

[j_menz]

Student has only 2 options: learn correctly or avoid advanced repertoire.

But what are you suggesting they "learn correctly"?  There are two different approaches evident. One is that they learn (more or less by rote) a series of actions that are "proven" to work correctly and efficiently.  The question then is what constitutes that proof (and endless argumants here suggest that is not an uncontrovesial question).

The second, and FWIW the one I would advocate, is that they learn, on an ongoing basis, how to use their senses (how it sounds, how it feels) to identify the "correct" action in each situation.

Neither approach will be successful in the hands ocf an incompetent teacher, or an obstinate student.

[nyiregyhazi]

But what are you suggesting they "learn correctly"?  There are two different approaches evident. One is that they learn (more or less by rote) a series of actions that are "proven" to work correctly and efficiently.  The question then is what constitutes that proof (and endless argumants here suggest that is not an uncontrovesial question).

The second, and FWIW the one I would advocate, is that they learn, on an ongoing basis, how to use their senses (how it sounds, how it feels) to identify the "correct" action in each situation.

Neither approach will be successful in the hands ocf an incompetent teacher, or an obstinate student.

What about a third approach- where you teach in a way that fully relates to both of the first two? Why would doing one exclude the other? Who says these are "different" approaches, rather than two sides of one coin? A person can be extraordinarily perceptive yet incapable of playing the piano well. You can be a black belt in martial arts and a virtuoso on other instruments- but all the self awareness won't automatically make you a great pianist unless you are guided towards the basic concepts for what actually works.

Awareness of what you are doing is nothing unless you also have awareness of what you NEED to be doing in order to succeed. When you have both, there is constant improvement. When you only have one or the other, there's no way to converge on what you want.

[j_menz]

What about a third approach- where you teach in a way that fully relates to both of the first two? Why would doing one exclude the other? Who says these are "different" approaches, rather than two sides of one coin? A person can be extraordinarily perceptive yet incapable of playing the piano well. You can be a black belt in martial arts and a virtuoso on other instruments- but all the self awareness won't automatically make you a great pianist unless you are guided towards the basic concepts for what actually works.

Awareness of what you are doing is nothing unless you also have awareness of what you NEED to be doing in order to succeed. When you have both, there is constant improvement. When you only have one or the other, there's no way to converge on what you want.

Agreed. I had assumed that you couldn't do the second one without incorporating the elements of the first, but on reflection can see that that may be the case. I had not intended it that way.

[dima_76557]

But what are you suggesting they "learn correctly"?

I was injured myself but I am not teacher to explain how and why to avoid and cure.

I think for your question and for others to read it is useful to have a look at explanation here by expert Thomas Mark:
https://pianomap.com/injuries/ (also .pdf document there to download and read at home)

Assumptions:
No teacher wants to hurt pupils deliberately.
All people want good and musical results, good sound, nice touch, etc.
Problem is: way to get there. Senses alone may very much deceive both teacher and student.
When person starts from "0" but with principles of "retraining" in mind, no harm will come.

[j_menz]

When person starts from "0" but with principles of "retraining" in mind, no harm will come.

But there is nothing to retrain if you start from 0.  It is all training, and should be done such that no retraining will be needed.

The position of a student who has been trained badly in the first place is somewhat different, I would think. Though I am fortunate not to have experience in this.

And whilst it is easy to assume that "All people want good and musical results, good sound, nice touch, etc.", if you look around this board and YT, you will find examples of people who appear to just want to tick of as much "hard" repertoire as they can as quickly as possible. I can't say I understand it myself, but it is an attitude that is out there.

[outin]

It should be remembered that even when a person (even a young person) has never touched a piano before, harmful physical habits and posture problems may already exist. One can get a way with a lot in everyday life and run into problems when starting an activity like practicing the piano for hour or more a day. So the student is not necessarily a blank canvas and a good teacher may need to address bad movements from the start. Obviously many teachers don't, but concentrate on the pieces instead of the player.

[dima_76557]

But there is nothing to retrain if you start from 0.  It is all training, and should be done such that no retraining will be needed.

Exactly. You have answered previous question yourself.
= key is to know how to avoid causes of injury (teacher responsibility) and use ONLY correct movements (student). Unfortunately, most students and many, too many teachers are not experts in field of moving on piano. They teach only "repertoire".
https://pianomap.com/injuries/causes.html

[j_menz]

It should be remembered that even when a person (even a young person) has never touched a piano before, harmful physical habits and posture problems may already exist. One can get a way with a lot in everyday life and run into problems when starting an activity like practicing the piano for hour or more a day. So the student is not necessarily a blank canvas and a good teacher may need to address bad movements from the start. Obviously many teachers don't, but concentrate on the pieces instead of the player.

Agreed. I think that while this has always been the case, it is probably much more so now where even very young people will have learnt some movements from computer use.

[hardy_practice]

Unfortunately, most students and many, too many teachers are not experts in field of moving on piano.

Children are experts in the field of moving.  Have you ever considered what a miracle walking is?  I've taught thousands to play music in my time - they need little guidance if the teaching's done well.

[dima_76557]

Children are experts in the field of moving.  Have you ever considered what a miracle walking is?  I've taught thousands to play music in my time - they need little guidance if it's done well.

Walking, running, etc. - programs by nature in human beings to survive. Piano playing, typing, computer usage - unnatural, cultural programs, not needed to survive. Body will reject correct movements for repetition tasks and substitute with more primitive ones to make person relaxed, but for advanced repertoire this - not suitable. Even ballet and sports require much much special training to reach cultural standards because - unnatural (not pre-programmed) activities.

[hardy_practice]

It's just a bunch of levers.

[dima_76557]

It's just a bunch of levers.

Many professional musicians and conservatory students worldwide (I read 90% somewhere which I can not believe) suffer or have suffered from playing-related musculoskeletal (and often disabling) disorders, not to speak of mental problems. Where that comes from? They just not listen and not relax enough? If not so sad, it would be very funny.

[hardy_practice]

It is my experience from many years of teaching that the problems come about from players overriding their natural body's way of operating.  Without realizing they put into action a scheme they've  invented because after all 'isn't there a way to play the piano?'  Yes there is, but you can never know it - the body does with no need of knowing.

[dima_76557]

It is my experience from many years of teaching that the problems come about from players overriding their natural body's way of operating.  Without realizing they put into action a scheme they've  invented because after all 'isn't there a way to play the piano?'  Yes there is, but you can never know it - the body does with no need of knowing.

Sorry, but this sounds like insult to profession. Student need not know about muscles, yes, but the rest? How to solve virtuoso problems for maximum speed, for a sample, without knowing how to use body and move key effectively? Maybe all 90% of ill musicians not really deserve to be musicians because actually - untalented? And all incompetent teachers who try to help and teach other things than just pieces should go to jail for crime against humanity?

I never "invented" any "schemes for action", which was cause for problems. Teachers give overload of work that must be ready in few days. Before I met special trainer, I worked 10-12 hours per day just to manage and teacher - not satisfied. Now I am trained in special way, I work only 6 and teacher - satisfied. Only thing for training is "sharpen tools in bag on journey to Parnassus" (movement-sound result). No musical "interpretation", no muscle speak, nothing. But: now able to do what teacher asks artistically.

[hardy_practice]

As I said, you wouldn't be aware you are 'inventing a scheme of action' but it's how the dual nature of being human works.  Maybe google "system 1" "system 2" for some latest psychology.

[dima_76557]

As I said, you wouldn't be aware you are 'inventing a scheme of action' but it's how the dual nature of being human works.  Maybe google "system 1" "system 2" for some latest psychology.

Dual process theory in psychology - old theory, but if true for all people solving tasks, how to prevent bad schemes of action without specific technical instruction from teacher for good schemes of action? What about OP's problem? I think he listens well already. If not, he would not have noticed shortcomings and not have asked question here. His problem: nature does not help to fulfil desire.

[hardy_practice]

Your problem is that you wish to know how to play the piano.  That can't be done, you can only play the piano but because the desire to know is so strong the mind fills that hole, as it does for our blind spot.  It fills it with useless rubbish though!  That leads you astray.