Haw to wipeout America.

[lisztisforkids]

Anti-Americanism is a disease.

 Well not quite.. It is getting trendy and hip to be Anti-American though. A dagerous fad..

[prometheus]

Would you rather live in Tel-Aviv or Damascus?

Is a Jew freer to open a synagogue in Riyadh, or a Muslim to open a Mosque in Netanya?

No. The point was that Israel is more similar to its neighbours than most western countries, with some exceptions.

Does Israel control the flow of information in it's country?

Apparently the majority of the Israeli's think that all information conserning war and conflict needs to be checked by the military first. So apperenty there is control on the flow of information. Do you really think the Israeli press is as free as the one in the US?

Does it publish textbooks calling Palestinians the sons of pigs and monkeys. Claim that Palestine doesn't exist? Encourage a culture of death - i.e., elevation of suicide bombers?

Almost all Israeli citizens are in the army at some point. So yes, Israel is a militarised state. As for racism and hate. Both sides teach their children to hate the enemy. For example, just a while ago Israeli children went to a military basis to paint and draw and paint messages for Lebanese childrens on artillery shells.

https://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153291980307&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull


As for the nature of Israeli textbooks. Again they are more like those of the arab countries surrounding them than like the ones western countries have:
https://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0999/9909019.html

Hmm. Are gays just being allowed to marry in Massachusettes? Or in Syria?

It is kind of sad that they aren't allowed everywhere in the US. The first gay marriage was in my country. Israel has none. Syria has none. Attacking the US or Israel does not mean defending Syria. I am attacking the US and Israel when they do not live up to the standards one would except. I do the same with my own government. And if they people in Syria did then they would have gay marriage. They would have text books without hate. They would stop brainwashing their children with hate and religion, etc etc. Or at least it would be a start.

Ironically, Palestinians are treated better by Israelis than their Arab neighbors.

Again, not really relevant. I already predicted this strange kind of behavior by people trying to defend Israel by comparing it to its arab neighbours. But when someone compares Israel to Nazi Germany... Really, it is stupid to compare Israel to its arab neighbours and claim they do well.

Your comparison to Apartheid is ridiculous. Thousands of Muslims have full Israeli citizenship and all the rights associated with it. Palestinians can acquire it too.

I was hinting at the bantustans which make up the west bank. As for the arabs with Israeli nationality. Yes, they are a lot better off. But they are secondary citizens. The poorest cities in Israel are all arab citizens, for example. If you want more and harder stats, the ones I hinted at, I will give them later. Also note that I never said that it was as worse as it was in S-Africa.

I consider the decapitation of defenseless women pretty disgusting. I think the culture that encourages such barbarism is most CERTAINLY inferior than ours.

These are excesses. This isn't at the core of arab culture. Now I don't think the average arab people are as enlightened as I am. But you excesses by Israel and the US as well. Western culture in no way prevents violence and barbarism. I don't get it. Actually, at one point the western people were the barbarians and they were enlightened. Not it is the other way around. But people like you are a big drag factor and may over time probably flip it around again.

If you don't, then you can keep on striking moral equivalences between the civilized west and barbaric Islamic fundamentalists.

Why not compare barbaric monotheistic fundamentalists from the near-east with barbaric monotheistic fundamentalists from the west?

I don't have the "right" to decide. But realistically, thousands of young American soldiers  fought and died - and continue to fight and die -

They died for nothing.

to secure a democratic government in Iraq that will not threaten it's neighbors or it's own citizens ever again. Regardless of whether you agree with the justifications of the war, this is an undeniably worthy cause, that should be supported by all educated people.

Then why was Al Sistani needed to oppose the US, start a peoples movement, to get more democracy then the US proposed? I already got into this before and in detail in an earlier discussion. Either google it yourself or find it using the search of it using the option of the forum. I guess you do the first since I get the impression you don't really want to believe me.

As for all educated people naturally should agree with you, which also means the opposite; that those who don't agree with you are uneducated. This is utter arrogance. There are a lot of educated people that do not agree with you. This is a fact. Maybe you should start to think about why this is? There are many people that know a lot more than I do that agree with some or most points you make. I don't think they are stupid or uneducated. 

Well, in a string of puerile and nonsenical arguments I guess this one is no different from you. Israel was attacked by Hezbollah. Nasrallah said they were ready for all out war. 
Israel doesn't like having it's soldiers captured and it's citizens bombed by terrorists.

Nor does Hezbollah.

Israel has the right to seek and destroy Hezbollah.

What is the difference between the two sides? After Israel pulled back from Lebanon in 2000 hundreds of Hezbollah members have dissapeared. It is said they are held captive by Israel. So Hezbollah attacked an Israeli patrol near the border, killed and captured their soldiers. Then they demanded a 'POW trade'. But Israel started to bomb Lebanese infrastructure and residential areas as well as Hezbollah positions. Then Hezbollah fired back. This is what happened. Hezbollah attacked a military target. Israel answered by attacking civilian targets. So Hezbollah respons by attacking civilian targets as well.

Now I think both parties are in error. But I don't understand why you can make a difference between the two. The only reason would be that you are part of one of the sides in the conflict. I think each side is as much in error as the violence they are responsible for. Naturally Israel commits more violence since they have total superiority in terms of violence. If we talk about Israel vs Hamas then we can even say Israel has a monopoly on violence. This is why I am so much harser on Israel.

Also, do you see anyone defending Hezbollah here? I don't even have to critizise them.

[zheer]

The actual letter is here:

https://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14079.htm

   The first thing that came to mind as i was reading this letter, is that this is not the saddam that the people of Iraq have known, and obviously this letter was written in arabic then translated, also its frightning when you realize that indeed America is the main reason why Iraq has truly suffered since the golf war. Obviously Saddam in conjunction with other nations have seeld the fait of the Iraqi people. To be honest what does seem rather strange, is that Saddam truly does believe he is still the president of Iraq . Anyway we all know that Iraq has been invaded and that the people of America where told apack of lies prior to invation, so i guess this is indeed a no win situation on both side's.

     OMG this is surly the dark side or the ' Shadow of man-kind'.

[Derek]

Anti-Americanism is a disease.

amen.

[BoliverAllmon]

amen.

as is liberalism

[gilad]

oh my god prometheus, no wonder you beleive israel to be the devil, look at the source you get your information from. it is totally arab oriented. what you put in, you get out.
i tried for years to try and work out why palestinians and other extremist arabs in the region wont make peace with israel. than i read the charter of hamas, the popular vote of the palestinians, their primary objective is to destroy israel. how do you explain that? how can you keep saying israel deosnt want peace? you are wrong.
did you know yasser arafat was actually egyption, his uncle was Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, this man was pure evil, he incited much hatred against jews as early as the 1920 arab riots in jerusalem. this man was also a nazi through and through. he can be considered the father of "palestiniasm", it is not much different from zionism, there was never a sovereign palestine, only arabs living under the ottoman and british governments...as did the jews.
you are a product of what you read prometheus, and then you speak as though you are a professor of facts, but rather you are one of bias opinions.

here is a link that you might find enlightening, it will explain to you the nazi-palestinian connection. as hitler fought to the death, well, they pretty much live by a similar philosophy.

i highly encourage anyone that has bought into prometheus' garbage to read for yourselves what israel has been dealing even before it became a state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

[thorn]

Anti-Americanism is a disease.

in which case, so is everything else that ends in -ism...

at the end of the day, all superpowers bring about their own destruction. unfortunately, several innocent people of all parties, both related and unrelated suffer in the process. and sadly, the only way that piece can possibly be achieved is by removing the Saddams, the Bushes, the Blairs and the Bin Ladens of the world (who in my opinion are all the same)... and to do anything like this will probably involve some kind of huge war.

and in the words of Einstein (if my memory serves me correctly): "I dont know what weapons will be used to fight World War III, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

[johnny-boy]

in which case, so is everything else that ends in -ism...
 and sadly, the only way that piece (peace) can possibly be achieved is by removing the Saddams, the Bushes, the Blairs and the Bin Ladens of the world (who in my opinion are all the same)...

The first step in getting rid of the Bush mentality in government is to set term limits. One term, 3 years, and then you’re forced back into civilian life (with no large government pensions).

Most politicians look at their cozy government jobs as careers rather than just serving their Country for a short period. By setting short term limits the power these scoundrels acquire would be minimal; thus getting rid of the power seekers. Also, I think a politician that doesn’t have to worry about being re-elected will be more objective in the decision making.

The next step would be to ban all lobbying in Washington D.C. and contribution/gifts to politicians. I want my leaders to make sound, intelligent decisions not based on “what’s in it for me”. The “not being re-elected” aspect would also have a positive affect on diminishing the influence of the lobbyist.

The third step would be to set a $50,000 cap on salaries. You buffoons are supposed to be serving us not making a fortune. Serve your short term then get the hell back in civilian life and make your fortunes.

We just recently had a representative pleading for raises for our State’s representatives. He stated 24 of our representatives can’t get credit because of not being able to pay their credit card debts (a great bunch to be watching over our money). His answer was to give the reps a sizeable raise so they could pay off their debts in a more timely fashion. He stated a tattoo artist in NYC makes more than he does (so become a tattoo artist in NYC, duh…).

Of course none of this will ever happen, because the guys that make the rules are the buffoons themselves.

Aah…that felt good!

Best, John

[musik_man]

Jonny-boy, I definitely agree on the term limits for Congress.  Perhaps 4 terms for the House and 2 for the Senate.  But I have to disagree on capping the salary.  It ought to be in the million dollar range.  Thomas Sowell does a better job of explaining why than I do. (https://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=4518)

And remember that a well paid Congressman is harder to bribe.

[johnny-boy]

And remember that a well paid Congressman is harder to bribe.- musik_man

Having a lot of money doesn't seem to slow down Bush's hunger for more.

I'll check your link out later musik_man.

John

[prometheus]

oh my god prometheus, no wonder you beleive israel to be the devil, look at the source you get your information from. it is totally arab oriented.

Which source is 'totally arab oriented'?

The The Jerusalem Post is an Israeli newspaper that used to be supportive of Labor but more recently it has been more in the Likud camp. I don't know where it stands in the current political spectrum.

I don't know Washington Report, but of course it has to be an american site.

Furtermore, I don't even read arab. So even if I tried I wouldn't be able to understand an arab oriented medium.

i tried for years to try and work out why palestinians and other extremist arabs in the region wont make peace with israel.

The palestinians aren't in any position to make peace. They are being occupied. The west bank is still occupied. And at the moment they are under attack by Israel. When they aren't under attack they are harassed and their economic development is disrupted.

Than i read the charter of hamas, the popular vote of the palestinians, their primary objective is to destroy israel.

Hamas is an organisation responsible for war crimes, according to human rights watch. It is their view that they cannot recognise Israel because Israel does not want peace. If Israel 'gave' them Jerusalem then they will accept what is left of Israel. So yes, they resist Israel. But now many Palestinian people also believe this, I mean they do not believe in the possibility of a two-state solution. How come?

how do you explain that? how can you keep saying israel deosnt want peace? you are wrong.

Obviously Israel doesn't want peace. They want to keep their state. Call it zionism if you want. They aren't afraid of war. I remember that Bush said he knew that Sharon was a 'man of peace'. Then the Saudi Arabian crown prince said: "Sharon is a man of peace? Not even Sharon himself believes that." Israel wants to defend their land by defeating anyone that oppose them. They don't want peace. If they really wanted peace they would give up Jerusalem. They would never do that. Same goes for the palestinians. They don't want peace. They want east-Jerusalem including the temple mount and a fertile state. My grandparents didn't want peace when they were occupied by nazi germany. They wanted their freedom back.

did you know yasser arafat was actually egyption,

Doesn't everyone? If my sources are arab surely I must know this.

...his uncle was Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, this man was pure evil, he incited much hatred against jews as early as the 1920 arab riots in jerusalem. this man was also a nazi through and through.

So? Even if he was a nazi, it doesn't say me anything about Arafat. And even if it did, it wouldn't matter. I don't think Arafat demanded that much respect and I don't care. Even if the devil himself leads the palestinians, as long as Israel and the US occupy and supress them I will call out against this.

You mentioned Hames before. The reason why Hamas got so many votes is twofold. First Israeli plan to annex land and the second intifada. And then the corruption in the PLO. Hamas may be extremists, they are a lot less corrupt.

he can be considered the father of "palestiniasm", it is not much different from zionism,

The palestinians don't kill as many as Israel. Israel kills three times as many. Also, Israel and the US have the power to solve the conflict. The palestinians do not. There will never be an authority in palestine that has the power to stop all people that want to attack Israel. It will automatically stop when Israel stops what they are doing now and when they give back the land they conquered.

there was never a sovereign palestine, only arabs living under the ottoman and british governments...as did the jews.

So? They should stay occupied? Why not have Iran occupy them all? Just like in the good old persian days. And then we can have a new holocaust, this time a real one, just like in the good old days of '40-'45.

It doesn't matter a bit if Palestina was once part of the Ottoman Empire and then of the British Empire. Imperialism is always wrong.

here is a link that you might find enlightening, it will explain to you the nazi-palestinian connection. as hitler fought to the death, well, they pretty much live by a similar philosophy.

i highly encourage anyone that has bought into prometheus' garbage to read for yourselves what israel has been dealing even before it became a state.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amin_al-Husayni

Ok. Now we have proof. Every palestinian is an nazi. Right?
Do you know how many people were anti-semetic in the US during WWII? Does that have any consequences for today? What is the point? Do you think I view the palestinians as some kind of saintly people? I know a lot of them are scum. It is is just that their land is occupied by Israel and backed by the US.

And I don't see how this guy is a nazi. He just supported the German war against the British. I don't think he cared a bit about the Nazi ideology. It's the good old 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend'-thing which always turns out bad.

As for anti-semitism. He may very well have been one. But if you read the discussion in the talk page you will see that the evidence for it is rather thin. It is not clear if he was against jews in general or jews trying to establish a jewish state.



Again, I don't really care about how bad the arabs are. Israel and the US have committed acts that are war crimes and that is my whole point. You can't deny this by claiming the arabs are a greater evil.

...so is everything else that ends in -ism...

It's an anti-ism, not an -ism. So by your logic it should be good because it attempts to neutralise the -ism.

[gilad]

prometheus i just wrote a a very long post in response to what your post. my PC hung and i lost it all.
in essence it was that i agree with much of what you said, yet disagree with other parts and certain defintions.
i said in war it is to complex to say A causes B which causes C and D.
From another perspective it is C that causes A which causes D and B.
it is all up in the air, sort of like the stock market. of course the losses are in human life however.
in conlclusion i said that i think it is important for people not accept a situation as true and take a unconditional stand in support of it(fundementalism), but that they should constantly examine and rexamine it all the time and from all angles.
sorry i couldnt post my original post. but i am now retired from this debate as it has gone on for nearly 60 years and i dont see a resolution in sight. sad i am afraid.

[lisztisforkids]

Obviously Israel doesn't want peace. They want to keep their state.

 Israel fights for its very existence to survive as a people and a nation. Israel exists in a sea of enemys, ofcourse they are going to be tough and have a strong army, they have to. When neighboring leaders declare 'Israel should be wiped off the map' you cant blame Israel for taking a tough stance. The middle east wishes to destroy Israel, but they cant, if Israel wanted to destroy its neighbors, Israel would. Stop saying Israel is the same as Hizbollah, because theire not. Why do you think Israel is occupying Palestine? Because theire mean? No, because the Palastine openly calls for Israels destruction...

[da jake]

^Good response.   

[quasimodo]

 Israel fights for its very existence to survive as a people and a nation.

You could say the same for the Palestinian population, who by the way was there in the first place...
Now, the childish "who started it ?" "who killed more?" and so on is not the point anymore. The point is that this war goes on for more than 3 decades now. For me it clearly shows that the international community does not want to put the necessary efforts to take it to an end.
In ex-Yougoslavia, solutions were found and it didn't take that long. Obviously things are not perfect over there but at least it's not bombing against bombing day after day.
The middle-east war continues because that's what USA leaders want. Whether it's right or wrong is another debate, but stop the BS that USA is some kind of misunderstood noble white knight who tries to protect the poor victim Israel against arab devils.
The US Jewish Lobby's funding for presidentials is a stake worth a few thousand lebanese civilians lives.

[thorn]

It's an anti-ism, not an -ism. So by your logic it should be good because it attempts to neutralise the -ism.

it still ends in -ism though... doesnt really matter if it has anti in front of it... i was referring to anything, be it single word or phrase that ends in -ism

sorry if that didnt seem too clear

[mephisto]

The US and Israel

Lands of free speech, multiculturalism, gender equality, progressive cultural attitudes

Have you been to Israel?

[mephisto]

 Israel fights for its very existence to survive as a people and a nation. Israel exists in a sea of enemys, ofcourse they are going to be tough and have a strong army, they have to. When neighboring leaders declare 'Israel should be wiped off the map' you cant blame Israel for taking a tough stance. The middle east wishes to destroy Israel, but they cant, if Israel wanted to destroy its neighbors, Israel would. Stop saying Israel is the same as Hizbollah, because theire not. Why do you think Israel is occupying Palestine? Because theire mean? No, because the Palastine openly calls for Israels destruction...

I cry for you.

[Derek]

as is liberalism

amen

[BoliverAllmon]

I cry for you.

and I pray for you.

[prometheus]

 Israel fights for its very existence to survive as a people and a nation. Israel exists in a sea of enemys, ofcourse they are going to be tough and have a strong army, they have to. When neighboring leaders declare 'Israel should be wiped off the map' you cant blame Israel for taking a tough stance. The middle east wishes to destroy Israel, but they cant, if Israel wanted to destroy its neighbors, Israel would. Stop saying Israel is the same as Hizbollah, because theire not.

Half of the arab countries are at the side of Israel. First off the arab world is divided itself and it has been almost since the death of Muhammed; there are shiites and sunnis. And then many of the countries suck up to the US because they get rewarded for this.

Why do you think Israel is occupying Palestine? Because theire mean? No, because the Palastine openly calls for Israels destruction...

Because they want Jerusalem. This is obvious. Jerusalem has been at the core of this conflict the whole time. If you take a look at the UN recognised borders you will see that east-Jerusalem is not part of Israel. The green line does not include the old city. This means that the Palestinians have the temple mount but the Israel wants to annex this.

Again, I don't see what is so different about Hezbollah and Israel. Again you claim there is a significant difference but you don't present any arguments for this. Hezbollah is not the same as Hamas. Hezbollah claimed they want a prisoners trade. But Israel claim they want to eliminate Hezbollah. Hezbollah did not laungh rockets at Israel after they withdrawed in 2000.

[pianolearner]

China taking our place makes me more un-easy. Russia wouldn't be that great either. ARe we perfect? NO WAY!!! but I think we are better than some other options.

Zheer that sounds a whole lot like radical islamic thinking. One world and one religion society.

boliver

I don't like political debates but I have to show my approval for this post. I would rather live under an American "dictatorship" than any of the other ones! With all of it's Good, Bad and Ugly I still say God Bless America.

[gilad]

https://www.israel.org/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/2001/2/Israelis+Held+by+the+Hizbullah+-+Oct+2000-Jan+2004.htm

hizbollah kidnap and kill three idf soldiers, this occurs in 2000 i think, possibly as long as 6 months after israel completely withdrew from lebanon. that is not firing missiles, but it is equally as bad.
they have also sent drones over northern israel on reconnaissance missions, i cant remember exactly, but at the same time those 2 recent soldiers were kidnapped hizbulla started firing katyusha rockets into israel, not after israel responded to the kidnappings.
i used to read hizbullahs website on a daily basis, they preach hate and destruction of the"zionist enemy" i dont think they ever said the word "israel" as they refuse to acknowledge it.
unfortunately the sight seems to have been taken down by America as have other terror organisions sites. i was always interested to see what they were up to and bragging about.

[mephisto]

and I pray for you.

why?

So that I will stop feeling sorry for all the lebanese and palestinian children?

[BoliverAllmon]

why?

So that I will stop feeling sorry for all the lebanese and palestinian children?

no innocent people deserve our sympathy.  What about Israeli women and children? Israel gives up all this land for peace and what happens? the terrorists just move closer with their weapons. I don't have alot of sympathy for terrorists. If you want to pick a fight and you get one, don't come crying to the U.N. or anyone else.

I thought your comment was anti-Israel.

boliver

[mephisto]

no innocent people deserve our sympathy.  What about Israeli women and children? Israel gives up all this land for peace and what happens? the terrorists just move closer with their weapons. I don't have alot of sympathy for terrorists. If you want to pick a fight and you get one, don't come crying to the U.N. or anyone else.

I thought your comment was anti-Israel.

boliver

Are you aware of the fact that, Israel now i much bigger than the UN said it should be? This means that Israel is occupeing land. And they have broken 170 UN resolusions!(how can you ignore things like this!?) Are you aware of the fact that the largest numbers of refugees in the world are palestians?(if you support this, than you would also support it if someone did the same against the USA) The state of Israel was created ethnic cleansing of 750000 Palestinians.

Are you aware of the fact that not all Palestinians are muslims? Many of them are christian! And you support the murdes on your fellow belivers? These christian Palestinians are as much enemies of the high-budget terrorism Israel is using

If some people had come to take over the USA, and the USA had made resistance, would I/you have called the USA a terrorist- state. No of course not.

Israel is an apartheid state just like South- Africa used to be. And may I ask why you think Nelson Mandela is against the way the state of Israel behaves?

And if Israel was such a democratic state, why did they put Mordechai Vanunu( a jewish Israeli citizen) to jail for more than 15 years  because he shown the rest of the world that Israel was an atomic-state? Freedom of speach

I have nothing against jews. When my father was growing up on Palestine, palestinians and jews lived peacfully as friends. It si a sad world we live in.

[zheer]

   The defenition of dictator = ruler who has complete power,person who acts unfairly or cruelly. Obviously anyone or anything which is contrary to American policy and not in the intrest of the people of the USA is deemd bad, therefore punishment by death, sanction, imprizonment or torture is called-upon. Well if that is'nt a dictatorship then what is.

[prometheus]

no innocent people deserve our sympathy.

I assume you meant to put a comma after the 'no'.

The whole world, except Israel and the US, call for a cease fire. The whole world, excluding the US, Israel and Blair said that the Israeli violence was out of proportion. Blair even had his minister of foreign, Kim Howell, condemn Israels actions so that at least the UK was in line with the rest of the world. All these people want the violence to stop. Except for two countries. They want to keep bombing. And again, they don't bomb Hezbollah exclusively. Most of the victims are totally innocent. Aren't they responsible for their use of violence? If they can't bomb Hezbollah they should just stop and give up; accept defeat. But no, they rather kill innocents as well.

What about Israeli women and children?

You ask this to me? Israel puts its own people at danger by annexing land. If Israel hadn't bombed Lebanon then no Israeli civilian would have died. Also note that the areas that get shot by Hezbollah are regions with alot of Arab Israeli's. They know that Hezbollah could laungh a missile into their homes. But they still support Hezbollah because they know the violence they suffer is nothing compared to what the people in Lebanon, which includes their family that fled after Israel conquered their land.

Israel gives up all this land for peace and what happens?

They only need to give up the territories they occupy, free their prisoners and stop the violence. Extremists like Hamas and Hezbollah leadership may still call for the destruction of Israel, normal people won't care and they will lose the support they have now. On the other hand, there more violence the more support extremists get from normal people. Same on the Israeli side. There are a lot of extremists there as well. The Israeli state is just a lot better at stopping them because they are a lot more powerful and they are able to enforce law.

The terrorists just move closer with their weapons. I don't have alot of sympathy for terrorists.

But you do. You just call them differently.

If you want to pick a fight and you get one, don't come crying to the U.N. or anyone else.

Nasrallah says: "Bring it on. Come invade Lebanon." The moderates and the peaceful people want it to stop. Watch more closely.
Also, France and UK are now saying there needs to be an agreement fast. You need to realise a lot of countries and companies invested a lot of money into Lebanon.

I thought your comment was anti-Israel.

Anti-violence, yes. I don't care who commits the violence.


It is also kind of funny that Israel claims Hezbollah needs to be disarmed because there is a UN resolution calling for its disarmament while they don't care what they UN says. They break a lot of UN resolutions as well. And when they don't break them directly they break them indirectly by having the US veto them.

As for christian palestines. Some are just as extreme as their muslim conterparts, anti-semitism, calling for suicide attacks, etc.

[BoliverAllmon]

   The defenition of dictator = ruler who has complete power,person who acts unfairly or cruelly. Obviously anyone or anything which is contrary to American policy and not in the intrest of the people of the USA is deemd bad, therefore punishment by death, sanction, imprizonment or torture is called-upon. Well if that is'nt a dictatorship then what is.

There are alot of people who do not do things like USA would like, but we don't blow them all to kingdom come. Russia, china, n. korea, mexico, and tons others. Even Canada doesn't do things like we do. so that argument doesn't work.

boliver

[mephisto]

As for christian palestines. Some are just as extreme as their muslim conterparts, anti-semitism, calling for suicide attacks, etc.

I agree with everything in your posts, why nobody knows this I don`t know, but palestinians are semitts. Therefore they are not anti-semits.

[prometheus]

Well, you are right. I always found that funny. But I guess I used the 'jewish' version of anti-semitism. A definition that sometimes starts before anti-zionism ends.

Another anti-ism...


In something like this you see that Orwell was right.

[BoliverAllmon]

I assume you meant to put a comma after the 'no'.

The whole world, except Israel and the US, call for a cease fire. The whole world, excluding the US, Israel and Blair said that the Israeli violence was out of proportion. Blair even had his minister of foreign, Kim Howell, condemn Israels actions so that at least the UK was in line with the rest of the world. All these people want the violence to stop. Except for two countries. They want to keep bombing. And again, they don't bomb Hezbollah exclusively. Most of the victims are totally innocent. Aren't they responsible for their use of violence? If they can't bomb Hezbollah they should just stop and give up; accept defeat. But no, they rather kill innocents as well.

You ask this to me? Israel puts its own people at danger by annexing land. If Israel hadn't bombed Lebanon then no Israeli civilian would have died. Also note that the areas that get shot by Hezbollah are regions with alot of Arab Israeli's. They know that Hezbollah could laungh a missile into their homes. But they still support Hezbollah because they know the violence they suffer is nothing compared to what the people in Lebanon, which includes their family that fled after Israel conquered their land.

They only need to give up the territories they occupy, free their prisoners and stop the violence. Extremists like Hamas and Hezbollah leadership may still call for the destruction of Israel, normal people won't care and they will lose the support they have now. On the other hand, there more violence the more support extremists get from normal people. Same on the Israeli side. There are a lot of extremists there as well. The Israeli state is just a lot better at stopping them because they are a lot more powerful and they are able to enforce law.

But you do. You just call them differently.

Nasrallah says: "Bring it on. Come invade Lebanon." The moderates and the peaceful people want it to stop. Watch more closely.
Also, France and UK are now saying there needs to be an agreement fast. You need to realise a lot of countries and companies invested a lot of money into Lebanon.

Anti-violence, yes. I don't care who commits the violence.


It is also kind of funny that Israel claims Hezbollah needs to be disarmed because there is a UN resolution calling for its disarmament while they don't care what they UN says. They break a lot of UN resolutions as well. And when they don't break them directly they break them indirectly by having the US veto them.

As for christian palestines. Some are just as extreme as their muslim conterparts, anti-semitism, calling for suicide attacks, etc.

yes, I meant to put a comma there after the word "no."

no, I directed that comment to mephisto.

I don't buy that the violence is disproportionate. Hezbollah invaded Israel and captured the soldiers. Israel did not start this. I believe that if Hezbollah is not sent a message then they will continue to do these type of things.

I don't give a fart about the U.N. I think the whole thing is a joke. they are all bark and no bite.

I accept your point about Hezbollah wanting the war, but Lebanon going to the U.N. My mistake.

they gave up the territory and stopped the violence. They shouldn't have to give up terrorists. If an American went to France and killed a french man, he is on his own. Let the french do whatever they want to with him. I feel the same way about Israel.

the only reason why they started fighting again, was to fight back. They were provoked.

boliver

[zheer]

There are alot of people who do not do things like USA would like, but we don't blow them all to kingdom come. Russia, china, n. korea, mexico, and tons others. Even Canada doesn't do things like we do. so that argument doesn't work.

boliver

  Who know's you might be right, but one thing we can be sure of is that all governments, nations have hidden intention, and if action speaks loader than word, then these past few years have proven that these intentions are usually always controray to OUR intrest.

[BoliverAllmon]

  Who know's you might be right, but one thing we can be sure of is that all governments, nations have hidden intention, and if action speaks loader than word, then these past few years have proven that these intentions are usually always controray to OUR intrest.

in what way contrary? would you like Suddam back? I ask out of a lack of knowledge, not to pick a fight.

boliver

[pianolearner]

  The defenition of dictator = ruler who has complete power,person who acts unfairly or cruelly. Obviously anyone or anything which is contrary to American policy and not in the intrest of the people of the USA is deemd bad, therefore punishment by death, sanction, imprizonment or torture is called-upon. Well if that is'nt a dictatorship then what is.

Zheer,

Are you so naive to think the world would be a better place if America wasn't the economic and military superpower that it is? Why are you living in a country that shares the same values? I don't get it.

[mephisto]

I don't give a fart about the U.N. I think the whole thing is a joke. they are all bark and no bite.

boliver

Than why on earth do you support the state of Israel. Israel exists only because of the UN.

Hizbollah did never occupie Israel. Do you think that kidnapping 3 Israeli soldiers is the same as killing hundreds of civilian Lebanese people?'

Are you aware that Israel have 8000 palestians held in prision for no reason? Yes they kidnaped them.

[prometheus]

I am not saying that Israel has no right to fight. I am saying that the result of their violence is that civilians die. Israel deliberately bombed residential areas and destoyed the Lebanese infrastructure, and were apparently proud of it, with the goal of terrorising the Lebanese population into opposing Hezbollah. Of course now the opposite happens. Even Christians and Druzes start to support Hezbollah.

they are all bark and no bite.

That is because in the case of Israel, US veto's almost everything. Your problem is not that the UN is weak but that you do not agree with the world consensus. If there was no veto right then the UN would be able to force things unto Israel. I don't think you want this.

You may not thing the violence is disproportionate but even the UK does think so. The point is the whole world, except the US, things it is.

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/741787.html
https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/5205658.stm


But you don't care about the UN, about international consensus and international law. Apparently you have other goals. This puts you into the company of those who also do not care about the UN, international consensus and law. This includes all extremists on any side in any conflict.

[zheer]

in what way contrary? would you like Suddam back? I ask out of a lack of knowledge, not to pick a fight.

boliver

 

  Ooooooooooo its too late and pointless thinking about what should or should not be done with Saddam and Iraq. A hundred years will pass and we will still be thinking what on earth was all that about.

[pianolearner]

I am not saying that Israel has no right to fight. I am saying that the result of their violence is that civilians die. Israel deliberately bombed residential areas and destoyed the Lebanese infrastructure, and were apparently proud of it, with the goal of terrorising the Lebanese population into opposing Hezbollah. Of course now the opposite happens. Even Christians and Druzes start to support Hezbollah.

Where do you get this information from? My sources tell me Hezbollah hide and launch missiles into Israel from residential areas. Hezbollah should play fairly and paint big red targets on the houses that Israel needs to bomb.

[mephisto]

Where do you get this information from? My sources tell me Hezbollah hide and launch missiles into Israel from residential areas. Hezbollah should play fairly and paint big red targets on the houses that Israel needs to bomb.

I can`t speach for Scraibin`s best piece(opus60) but I got the same information from Norway`s biggest television channel(TV2)

[zheer]

Zheer,

? Why are you living in a country that shares the same values? I don't get it.

   Do you mean demcracy, bull***t, we are living in what i call modern-dictatorship. Its about time we started questioning these so called advocate of demcracy and free speach ( my ass ).  What values.

[pianolearner]

I can`t speach for Scraibin`s best piece(opus60) but I got the same information from Norway`s biggest television channel(TV2)

Well then, it must be true.

[pianolearner]

  Do you mean demcracy, bull***t, we are living in what i call modern-dictatorship. Its about time we started questioning these so called advocate of demcracy and free speach ( my ass ).  What values.

Ok. Why do you continue living in this "modern dictatorship?" Do you have plans to move to another country? If so, which one?

[prometheus]

Maybe you should use google earth and take a look at the terrain of south Lebanon.


They don't launch the missiles from Beirut. It lies far from the border with Israel. But still large parts of residential areas have been flattened by Israel. Same goes for Tyre and Sidon.

Why they bomb these areas no one really knows. Israel doesn't explain why it bombs what it does. At first it bombed residential areas that could be assosiated with Hezbollah in the way that Hezbollah members lived there or that there were many Hezbollah sympathizers live. But for some days they have also been bombing the christian suburbs of Beirut. Why? No one knows?
We also know that Israel has been bombing a lot of trucks. Many of these trucks didn't contain rockets or missile launchers. For example, they bombed several water drilling trucks, plus the area around it.

At this point several residential areas lie in total ruins. And this reminds us of Osama Bin Laden, who said he was inspired to strike the Twin towers when he saw two tall buildings in Beirut fall. Of course this is probably propaganda and of course Al Quada and Hezbollah hate each other furiously. But western people shouldn't wish for this.




They even said it: "if the abducted soldiers are not returned we'll turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/737687.html
https://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1213591,00.html


And yes, on occasion Hezbollah will hide among civilians or UN, like they did with Kana where Israel shelled an UN camp and killed more than 100 refugees in UN safekeeping and wounding UN personel. This was done intentionally and Israel have been proven to be lying about what happened. Probably ashamed of the deed of their unit which they didn't autherize.
I also heard that civilians hide with Hezbollah and not the other way around. As for it being cowardly, that's just war propaganda. No general cares about this. Not on Israeli side nor Hezbollah side. Actually the Isaeli politic collided with the Israeli generals because the politicians feared too much casulties. They choose to continue using planes.

But I don't care about this at all. I don't think a single citizen can be intentionally killed to kill one of your enemies. I don't think you can kill a single innocent citizen in an attempt to save the life of 10 others, or 100 others, unless that person is willing to die. For example, the UK police shooting that gun on accident. I think that is wrong. I rather run the risk of being killed by terrorists then accepting police has to policy to kill civilians 'just to make sure'. When the terrorists have made us so fearful we start to shoot our own citizens we have lost.

So Israel should send in their troops and get Hezbollah out of their homes, not risking killing civilians. If they are unwilling to do this then they should negociate. If they still want to kill civilians as well then they need to face the critisism.

But, they don't just bomb residential areas. They destroy infrastructure to terrorise the Lebanese population. And they are running out of targets. So they need to find new targets.

[thalbergmad]

Why are you living in a country that shares the same values? I don't get it.

This is a question that needs to be asked to the "Islamic Fanatics" living in England.

They are happy to milk the benefits system and at the same time preach hate against us.

They give the peace loving Muslim community a bad name.

Thal

  

[prometheus]

Since when is Zheer an extremist? Isn't he against the violence while Boliver and Da Jake support it?

And doesn't he live in London, I saw someone say this? So to which country does he need to move if he thinks London isn't democratic enough for him? Plus, who says he is a political refugee himself. His parents may have been and he has been born in 'his' country, England, and he wants to improve it.

[zheer]

Ok. Why do you continue living in this "modern dictatorship?" Do you have plans to move to another country? If so, which one?

   Well this is a very personal question, but i plan once the UK is under heavy bombardment similar to those bombs droped on Iraq, to retreat and watch the action unfold in a village in the north of Iraq. That will be the day of true celebration a victorious day indeed.

[thalbergmad]

Since when is Zheer an extremist?

Where did you get this from??

[pianolearner]

Maybe you should use google earth and take a look at the terrain of south Lebanon.


They don't launch the missiles from Beirut. It lies far from the border with Israel. But still large parts of residential areas have been flattened by Israel. Same goes for Tyre and Sidon.

Why they bomb these areas no one really knows. Israel doesn't explain why it bombs what it does. At first it bombed residential areas that could be assosiated with Hezbollah in the way that Hezbollah members lived there or that there were many Hezbollah sympathizers live. But for some days they have also been bombing the christian suburbs of Beirut. Why? No one knows?
We also know that Israel has been bombing a lot of trucks. Many of these trucks didn't contain rockets or missile launchers. For example, they bombed several water drilling trucks, plus the area around it.

At this point several residential areas lie in total ruins. And this reminds us of Osama Bin Laden, who said he was inspired to strike the Twin towers when he saw two tall buildings in Beirut fall. Of course this is probably propaganda and of course Al Quada and Hezbollah hate each other furiously. But western people shouldn't wish for this.




They even said it: "if the abducted soldiers are not returned we'll turn Lebanon's clock back 20 years."

https://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/737687.html
https://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1213591,00.html


And yes, on occasion Hezbollah will hide among civilians or UN, like they did with Kana where Israel shelled an UN camp and killed more than 100 refugees in UN safekeeping and wounding UN personel. This was done intentionally and Israel have been proven to be lying about what happened. Probably ashamed of the deed of their unit which they didn't autherize.
I also heard that civilians hide with Hezbollah and not the other way around. As for it being cowardly, that's just war propaganda. No general cares about this. Not on Israeli side nor Hezbollah side. Actually the Isaeli politic collided with the Israeli generals because the politicians feared too much casulties. They choose to continue using planes.

But I don't care about this at all. I don't think a single citizen can be intentionally killed to kill one of your enemies. I don't think you can kill a single innocent citizen in an attempt to save the life of 10 others, or 100 others, unless that person is willing to die. For example, the UK police shooting that gun on accident. I think that is wrong. I rather run the risk of being killed by terrorists then accepting police has to policy to kill civilians 'just to make sure'. When the terrorists have made us so fearful we start to shoot our own citizens we have lost.

So Israel should send in their troops and get Hezbollah out of their homes, not risking killing civilians. If they are unwilling to do this then they should negociate. If they still want to kill civilians as well then they need to face the critisism.

But, they don't just bomb residential areas. They destroy infrastructure to terrorise the Lebanese population. And they are running out of targets. So they need to find new targets.

Do you honestly think a war can be fought without innocent civilians dying? Maybe if we go back 600 years and fight on “THE BATTLEFIELD”. Perhaps countries should mark out a battlefield with white lines and any country that bombs outside them gets a yellow card. Two yellow cards and they automatically lose the war.

Police shoot innocent victims because they mistake them for criminals. It's too bad real criminals don’t run around in black & white striped overalls wearing masks like they do in cartoons. It would make crime fighting so much easier.

[thalbergmad]

Isn't he against the violence while Boliver and Da Jake support it?

And doesn't he live in London, I saw someone say this? So to which country does he need to move if he thinks London isn't democratic enough for him? Plus, who says he is a political refugee himself. His parents may have been and he has been born in 'his' country, England, and he wants to improve it.

You better check out his latest post.

He seems to have interesting ideas on how to improve England.