brexit?!!?

[mjames]

Most blinkered left wing twats couldn't care about crimes committed by illegals against their own people so your spasticated comments do not surprise me.

If a member of your family was raped by one, you might just change your tune, but you might just be to pathetic and boneheaded.

Thal

Oh shut up with your sickening (and false) self-righteousness. I have a pretty good feeling that the only time you're willing to mention rape victims is when the topic's about immigration. Just because you're willing to talk about them in some irrelevant forum isn't really indicative of your concern. Also like I said a few pages back, not everyone who attacks and argues against you is a "hur durr left-wing." Read again, dumba$$, my posts have nothing to do with supporting illegal immigration.

Who knew you were such an idiotic, over-grown manchild.

"government willingly signs treaties"
"government willingly allows illegal immigrants to continue living in its country"
"government even advertises its own country to bring in non-EU immigrants."


oMfG the EU is OppressINg US with DA liberALz speek

What idiocy.

[thalbergmad]

What a braindead spastic you are. Do not answer my posts again you pathetic fucktard.

You have nothing to add of interest and have no debating skills.

A kiddies forum would be better for you.

Thal

[mjames]

What a braindead spastic you are. Do not answer my posts again you pathetic fucktard.

You have nothing to add of interest and have no debating skills.

A kiddies forum would be better for you.

Thal

"England isn't being forced to take in illegal by the EU"
"Wow raped women will be overjoyed to hear that."

---
"You have no debating skills1!!111!!!"
You are a walking parody.

Also you're on my thread. You have done nothing but add irrelevant and borderlines xenophobic idiocy for the past 15 pages. There's also nothing more pathetic than feigning concern for victims of violent crime in hopes of fueling your political agenda. It's hilarious that you think you have a moral high-ground. I see it all the time on stormfront, perhaps you should go there.

[thalbergmad]

Borderline xenophobic is a typical phrase spouted by retarded wankers. They see it everywhere and mainly where it doen't exist.

I have no political agenda as i am not a politician and will continue to stand up for my own people who have suffered at the hands of those who have no right to be here.

You are too gutless, weak and blinkered to ever do such a thing,now do me a favour and *** off.

Thal

[mjames]

Borderline xenophobic is a typical phrase spouted by retarded wankers. They see it everywhere and mainly where it doen't exist.

I have no political agenda as i am not a politician and will continue to stand up for my own people who have suffered at the hands of those who have no right to be here.

You are too gutless, weak and blinkered to ever do such a thing,now do me a favour and *** off.

Thal

I have no political agenda as i am not a politician and will continue to stand up for my own people who have suffered at the hands of those who have no right to be here.

You don't need to be a politician to have a political agenda. Perhaps you can use your patriotism to do something about your English, huh?

Borderline xenophobic is a typical phrase spouted by retarded wankers. They see it everywhere and mainly where it doen't exist.

It is also used in response to borderline xenophobic remarks.

You are too gutless, weak and blinkered to ever do such a thing,now do me a favour and *** off.

Didn't you say something about debating skills? You just keep in adding even more irrelevant crap. Also, I'll reiterate: you're in my thread. Go advertise your false concern for women somewhere else, you disgusting prick.

[ahinton]

I think in the final analysis it doesn't matter whether the criminal perpetrators are migrants, refugees or illegal whatevers. The fact is they've committed the crime.  Illegal immigration by definition can't be fully stopped; we can try to minimise it but little more. Criminals should feel the full force of the law and that shouldn't be coloured by their social designation.

Absolutely correct!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

What a braindead spastic you are. Do not answer my posts again you pathetic fucktard.

You have nothing to add of interest and have no debating skills.

You do have debating skills; what a pity, then, that you resort to such puerile language instead of actually using them.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Borderline xenophobic is a typical phrase spouted by retarded wankers. They see it everywhere and mainly where it doen't exist.

I have no political agenda as i am not a politician and will continue to stand up for my own people who have suffered at the hands of those who have no right to be here.

I have a right to be in England but perhaps I shouldn't have in your book, because I'm one of those north-of-the-border furriners. I abhor xenophobia, not least because it damages the xenophobes just as much as it does their targets.

I somehow suspect that you'd never touch caviar because of the particular creature of which it is the roe, but please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

You don't need to be a politician to have a political agenda. Perhaps you can use your patriotism to do something about your English, huh?

It is also used in response to borderline xenophobic remarks.

Didn't you say something about debating skills? You just keep in adding even more irrelevant crap. Also, I'll reiterate: you're in my thread. Go advertise your false concern for women somewhere else, you disgusting prick.

That kind of intemperacy is on a par with Thal's and accordinly does you little credit. I do not doubt Thal's concern for disabled gang rape victims as being perfectly genuine, even though I have issues aplenty with quite a few of his expressions.

Best,

Alistair

[mjames]

Right no, all he does is write insults in response to posts. Ignores substantial parts of an argument only to shoehorn his false concern of white women, idiotic left-wing insults, and something something about him being the awesome patriotic Englishman he is.

At this point it's him regurgitating crap. I felt like pointing out how much of a turd he is, so I did. : ]

[chopinlover01]

Wow, this escalated. Oi..

Borderline xenophobic is a typical phrase spouted by retarded wankers. They see it everywhere and mainly where it doen't exist.

It's also spouted by people who actually have concern for others who may be victimized by the (well documented) rise of xenophobia within the Brexit movement.

I have no political agenda as i am not a politician and will continue to stand up for my own people who have suffered at the hands of those who have no right to be here.

You could at least start with an agenda of proper grammar.
You also don't need to be a politician to have an agenda.

You are too gutless, weak and blinkered to ever do such a thing,now do me a favour and *** off.

Thal

Weren't you just lecturing him about having no debate skills? Quite ironic to immediately switch to ad hominem.

[ahinton]

Wow, this escalated. Oi..

Yes, indeed - provided that the reader understands that escalators can travel downwards as well as upwards; a great pity, given the gravity and importance of the subject.

Anyway, here are some details of two quite different legal challenges:

https://uk.businessinsider.com/brexit-justice-european-union-boris-johnson-2016-9

https://uk.businessinsider.com/day-two-of-high-court-article-50-challenge-lawyer-says-parliament-vote-beyond-any-doubt-2016-10

https://uk.businessinsider.com/mischon-de-reya-article-50-supreme-court-case-2016-10

So far, there's been considerably less publicity for the one that seeks to expose the lies, misleadings and misinformation that abounded during the referendum campaign and it's good that those wishing to bring it are now prepared to include the shortcomings of both sides in this, not just the Leave side. A lot more money will be required should this go as far as it can; one can only hope that this will be found from vested interests and, of course, it doesn't all have to be found from within UK.

Also:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/17/there-is-no-such-thing-as-the-will-of-the-people-brexit-needs-the-involvement-of-parliament/

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/brexit-update-guess-what-its-still-f-d-vgtrn

And from an African perspective:

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2016/10/17/brexit-was-a-wakeup-call-for-africans-in-the-diaspora/

And just for a well deserved laugh and to demonstate that, whatever some people might think of the Guardian, it's not without a sense of humour:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/17/brexit-means-brexit-free-movement-japanese-car-factories-

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Today brings this about those who wish that they'd voted differently in the opinion poll:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-held-again-second-remain-leave-vote-pound-crash-uk-economy-bregret-a7365561.html
Of course this, too, is only an opinion poll but there's no smoke without fire, I suspect.

Hard or soft? Blisteringly expensie or even more blisteringly expensive?:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-single-market-theresa-may-to-pay-billions-for-access-report-a7365226.html
What's not mentioned here is how much faith anyone could reasonably put in FCA (the UK financial services regulator the Financial Conduct Authority) to review this, let alone conduct a full-scale investigation thereafter, to say nothing of how long these two procedures would take before Parliament could gain access to the results and duly consider them.

The current Court case latest is at
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-legal-challenge-live-latest-article-50-eu-theresa-may-uk-high-court-hearing-a7367126.html
and there are four more interesting links within that piece. The case looks set to be escalated to the Supreme Court by whichever side loses but it seems that we won't be made aware of the result of the current trial until sometime next month. Should the government lose but the go on also to lose its Supreme Court appeal, it will be even more interesting to see whether it'll simply accept it or delay matters further by appealing to ECJ, a step which will obviously not be short on irony.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Hedre are some updates from today:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/723469/Gibraltar-Brexit-chief-minister-Fabian-Picardo-second-EU-referendum

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-david-davis-cloud-cuckoo-land-brian-unwin-a7372186.html
and
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37719163

https://www.ibtimes.co.uk/latest-twists-cabinet-clashes-over-brexit-single-markets-customs-unions-1587451

Here's just one example of what I have little doubt will be a raft of business relocations:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-smiffys-business-moves-leaves-uk-europe-hq-exodus-a7371956.html

And not only did the government conveniently wax silent on the non-legally binding status of the referendum when launching it, a case of plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose looks set to play out here:

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/mps-peers-could-told-brexit-12054488

Yes, that's right; keep the electorate in the dark and only make use of them when they vote...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/europe/eu-policy-agenda/brexit/news/80061/european-council-president-donald-tusk-says-he-would

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/may-warned-uk-faces-hard-negotiations-over-brexit-1-4264409

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/21/four-in-10-new-nurses-are-from-overseas-amid-warnings-nhs-faces/

https://citywire.co.uk/money/friday-papers-hollande-warns-of-tough-brexit-talks/a961865?ref=citywire-money-latest-news-list

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-department-staffed-by-people-of-very-low-iq_uk_58094e2ae4b056572d81ff81

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-nissan-britain-idUKKCN12L045

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/491129-no-public-consensus-on-brexit

https://home.bt.com/news/world-news/moscow-needs-united-message-on-syria-bombing-theresa-may-tells-eu-11364106952431

and finally, just for a bit of a laugh:
https://newsthump.com/2016/10/20/trump-not-accepting-election-result-very-different-to-me-not-accepting-eu-referendum-result-claims-remainer/

If this and earlier links prove anything at all, it's that there remains no shortage of data about this appalling topic from a wide variety of sources.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The (ill) luck of the Irish?...
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/brexit-means-irelands-border-will-have-to-change-says-eu-agriculture-commissioner-phil-hogan-35150742.html
and
https://www.thejournal.ie/graham-norton-brexit-3038826-Oct2016/

And what May or May not be...
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/may-has-found-out-how-much-of-a-nightmare-her-brexit-talks-are-going-to-be-a7375236.html
and
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/may-made-an-impossible-demand-on-the-eu-a7375081.html

Beware of Greeks bearing wise advice:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/can-europe-make-it/yanis-varoufakis/yanis-varoufakis-offers-some-advice-to-uk-government-on-their-br

Meanwhile, in Scotland:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/referendum-looms-brexit-minister-rules-9099774

et en france...
https://www.thenational.scot/politics/theresa-may-faces-french-call-to-push-the-border-back-from-calais-to-kent-as-fears-of-dirty-brexit-grow.23878

What might not happen in Canada could impact upon what won't do so closer to home:
https://news.sky.com/story/belgian-response-to-ceta-treaty-casts-doubt-on-eu-uk-trade-deals-after-brexit-10626992

Can't somehow see this one appeaking to Frau Merkel:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/21/alors-le-compromise-m-barnier---nous-parlons-le-brexit-talks-en/

An whilst this is admittedly only in the Daily Fail, the prospect that Trump's latest gaffe proves to be correct ought to augur well - and indeed provide the ideal opportunity - for the very opposite in the form of UK suddenly seeing the sense of abandoning Brexit a.s.a.p.:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3860996/We-shock-world-Trump-predicts-Brexit-plus-victory.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

And again, just for a brief moment of amusement:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2016/oct/21/martin-rowson-on-brexit-negotiations-cartoon

Should Brexit ultimately proceed in any form, EU will be the worse off as a consequence; UK will inevitably suffer from that even more than it does now from EU's raft of inadequacies. Why anyone should assume that UK will somehow expect to inure itself against such adverse impacts upon EU just by virtue of leaving it is utterly beyond me.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/oct/22/brexit-threat-to-british-banks

OK, so it's that notoriously Thal-derided Guardian again, but let's not ignore it altogether...

And now even the dreadful and far more widely derided David Davis, gauleiter-in-charge, Brexit, appears somewhat to be mollifying the position that he saw fit to adopt when appointed to that poisoned chalice of a rôle...
https://www.maturetimes.co.uk/letters-tom-jones-brexit-the-truth-starts-to-emerge/

With all the rest of the stuff being circulated about this subject every second and with the continuing and indeed burgeoning confusion and indecision as to what to do or not to do about it, one possible outcome is, as one commentator has ruefully put it, that UK wll neither stay in EU nor leave it, rather as neither the Republican nor the Democrat party in US will win the election there in a few days' time. Between these two, UK and US could achieve quite a lot to help further to destabilise and already increasingly destabilised world, n'est-ce pas?

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Well, here's a possible solution for those in UK who don't want it to leave EU; it's from Connexion magazine and I reproduce it here in fll rather than providing a link because it's a subscription service:


Could Britons keep EU citizenship?
November 15, 2016

BRITISH citizens who wish to remain European citizens after Brexit could opt to have a form of 'associate citizenship' enabling them to retain their free movement rights, an MEP from Luxembourg recommends.

Charles Goerens, who is in a Liberals and Democrats group in the European Parliament, wants to put in place the new status for those who 'wish to be part of the European project but are nationals of a former member state'.

His idea – which he has explained to Connexion in an interview for December's newspaper - will be discussed at a meeting of the parliament's constitutional affairs committee on Monday next week and he hopes the full parliament will vote on it next month.

Mr Goerens said in a statement: "48% of British voters wished to remain European citizens with all the advantages that this brings. The EU should facilitate associate voluntary EU citizenship for those who, against their will, are being stripped of their European identity. Individual EU associate citizenship could provide a practical solution for UK citizens aggrieved by Brexit."


It will be a pity if it has to be paid for but worth considering nonetheless if it gets passed.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Cant believe we are still part of this bollox and still paying billions into this Ponzi Scheme.

Screw the EU

Thal

[perfect_pitch]

Yeah - c'mon Brexit. Happen so the Scottish can again rally for a vote to gain independence and keep all the oil to themselves... instead of being conned and milked dry by the greedy English.   

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ pp - couldn't agree more, high time this happens.

[perfect_pitch]

Glad someone agrees with me.     

[goldentone]

Cant believe we are still part of this bollox and still paying billions into this Ponzi Scheme.
Thal

A long and bloody struggle with the powers that be.

[Bob]

Can someone give a summary those of us not paying attention in the US?  I've seen something about Brexit in the news.

[thalbergmad]

The British people voted to leave the EU.

The politicians won't let it happen.

That is the basis of the arguement at the moment.

Thal

[perfect_pitch]

The British people voted to leave the EU.

Wrong... the ENGLISH people voted to leave, and the rest of Great Britain got fucked over.

[ahinton]

Wrong... the ENGLISH people voted to leave, and the rest of Great Britain got fucked over.

Not strictly true. The Scots and Northern Irish voted to remain and the Welsh and English voted to leave, but it's not that simple, for in Scotland, no constituencies voted to leave whereas in Northern Ireland, Wales and England some voted to leave and others to remain; moreover, the percentage favouring remain was almost as great in London, the capital and seat of the UK Parliament, as it was in Scotland.

What will happen now is anyone's guess.

The current default legal position is that UK will leave EU on 31 October this year with or without an agreed deal and this can be changed only if the law changes; as UK's Parliament is now prorogued until 14 October and the Prime Minister has until 19 October to agree a deal with EU, very little time is left for action of any kind. It has been speculated that the Prime Minister (who has so far done little to dampen such speculation) might be prepared to break the law that is now in force that obliges him to request an extension to Article 50 in the likely event that a deal is not struck by 19 October but I doubt that he would risk the consequences of doing this, especially as it could place him in contempt of court and at risk of imprisonment.

Might he therefore resign in such circumstances? I have no idea but would not rule it out, although that would still leave Parliament in a state of flux with a problem remaining to be solved one way or another in just 12 days.

There is also no guarantee that, if the Prime Minister caves in and requests an extension to Article 50, EU will grant him one; what if it doesn't?

It is indeed a most unholy mess but, whatever the outcome, the past three years has seen the unparalleled festering of divisiveness in UK, so I suspect that there will be wrangling and possible civil unrest for a very long time after 31 October.

As this is a piano forum and I am one of its members, it might be worth noting that I have yet to encounter a single professional musician who favours UK leaving EU.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Not strictly true.

Erm... I think it is. Out of the 33M voters, More than half of the English people voted to exit which resulted in almost 15.2M English people voting for leave, as opposed to 13.2M choosing to remain. Considering there are 5x more Electorate candidates in England than there are in Scotland, Wales and Ireland COMBINED... Even if 2 out of every 3 people in Scotland, Ireland and Wales voted to remain, the vote would still have been in favour or 'Leave' because of the massive population of England.

Ergo...

...the ENGLISH people voted to leave, and the rest of Great Britain got fucked over.

The end.

[ahinton]

Erm... I think it is. Out of the 33M voters, More than half of the English people voted to exit which resulted in almost 15.2M English people voting for leave, as opposed to 13.2M choosing to remain. Considering there are 5x more Electorate candidates in England than there are in Scotland, Wales and Ireland COMBINED... Even if 2 out of every 3 people in Scotland, Ireland and Wales voted to remain, the vote would still have been in favour or 'Leave' because of the massive population of England.

What you write here does not undermine the specific statement that I made.

The end.

I wonder when that might be?! Not 31 October 2019, that's for sure, whatever does or doesn't happen next and regardless of when it does or doesn't happen...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

What you write here does not undermine the specific statement that I made.

Maybe, but nor does it quash my response. Yes, maybe the Londoners wished to remain, but again - because of the substantially larger population of England, the vote was biased. One countries vote pretty much negated all the others.

IN FACT, Scotland were so opposed to leaving that they were the only country who vociferously voted against leaving, so much so that every single of the 32 voting councils recorded a preference for remaining with the EU.

[ahinton]

Maybe, but nor does it quash my response. Yes, maybe the Londoners wished to remain, but again - because of the substantially larger population of England, the vote was biased. One countries vote pretty much negated all the others.

IN FACT, Scotland were so opposed to leaving that they were the only country who vociferously voted against leaving, so much so that every single of the 32 voting councils recorded a preference for remaining with the EU.

Indeed so, as I mentioned (in brief) above. As a Scot, do I favour Scottish independence? Yes, but only (as the Catalans say) because they're already independent and don't need to leave UK in order to prove it. I think that Scotland leaving UK would be bad for Scotland, UK and EU but I do understand why there now seems to be something of a resurgence of appetite for reconsidering it in view of Scotland's desire to remain within EU and England's not to do so (at least according that that deeply flawed and undemocratic referendum of more than three years ago and, if a week is a long time in politics...)...

A Scottish Court has now overturned the decision of another one over the legality or otherwise of Parliamentary prorogation and that is to be appealed by the Westminster government to the Supreme Court which might overturn it. If it doesn't, however - and if the decision against Gina Miller in a second court case  is overturned on appeal to that Supreme Court and a third one currently being held in Northern Ireland is also won, even if only on appeal to the Supreme Court (if ever it gets there), the position of Mr Johnson will become so insecure as to appear untenable, since he could be found to be in a hat-trick of contempts of court and might be forced to resign as a consequence; however, that might not be the end of it, beause if he is also found wilfully and knowingly to have misadvised HM the Queen, he might be charged with treason and, whilst he won't get sent to the Tower, he would very likely be imprisoned.

Where such a set of circumstances (should they come about) would leave not merely Brexit but the very business of the day-to-day functioning of government and Parliament is anyone's or even non-one's guess; however, anyone who might still doubt that, as the Chinese saying has it, we "live in interesting times" must have his/her head so deep in the sand as to be able to hear nothing...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

You think we'd be worse off having independence? We have tons of oil off the North Sea, and that would stick it to England pretty bad.

I think it's about time Scotland was recognised as its own independent country. Although, I will admit - I have been living in Australia for the last 25 years, so I may not be in completely touch with what's happening at home.

[ahinton]

You think we'd be worse off having independence? We have tons of oil off the North Sea, and that would stick it to England pretty bad.

I think it's about time Scotland was recognised as its own independent country. Although, I will admit - I have been living in Australia for the last 25 years, so I may not be in completely touch with what's happening at home.

Scotland's economy is not the rosy picture that some would seek to paint it and, of course, its desire to remain in EU likely being its principal motive for seceding from UK might be compromised  by its need to reapply for EU membership in its own right. Moreover, oil has no long term future with renewables gradually taking the place of fossil fuels.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

And still it goes on. Hopefully not for much longer.

THAL

[perfect_pitch]

Boris Johnson is still in charge...

I think it's a bit like the end of the world (global warming, meteor strike, solar flare) - chances are it's coming, but it's a LOOOOOOOOONG way off.

[thalbergmad]

I can't see anyone else other then Boris being PM after the election.
The Fib Dem creature is deluded and even some long standing Labour members realise Corbyn is unfit.

[thalbergmad]

Well done Thal, what a prediction.

The British people have clearly spoken and we dont want lefty terrorist supporting scum running the Country and we do want to leave the EU.

The Socialists are dead in the water and are now blaming everyone but themselves. The Remoaner cause is finished and so is that loathsome interferon Gina Miller.

Boris has the power to push anything through because of his huge majority and he has purged his party of traitors.

My message to all lefty Remainers is YOU LOST AGAIN SO GET STUFFED.

Love and peace

Thal.

[ahinton]

The British people have clearly spoken and we dont want lefty terrorist supporting scum running the Country and we do want to leave the EU.

Wrong on the first, right on the second and wrong on the third.

The Socialists are dead in the water and are now blaming everyone but themselves.

Well, that is indeed looking to be increasingly true of the UK Labour Party, but an opposition will need to be formed otherwise UK will risk becoming a dictatorship.

The Remoaner cause is finished and so is that loathsome interferon Gina Miller.

Not true in either case

Boris has the power to push anything through because of his huge majority and he has purged his party of traitors.[/quote]
He seems to have quite a talent for lying his way into a lot of things but whether that might prove ultimately to be his undoing is open to question. As to the rest, the Conservative Party is still a deeply divided one, so I'm not sure that any such purge has taken place; time will tell, not least after a reshuffle, perhaps.

My message to all lefty Remainers is YOU LOST AGAIN SO GET STUFFED.

But what is your message to non-lefty and right wing Remainers? We should be told!

Love and peace

And to you.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The Conservatives dont look very divided to me.
At last the will of the 17.4 will be enacted and the Remainer cause is dead. Even Blair admitted as much.
If Labour elect another far left idiot like Corbyn, they will never get elected.
Thal

[thalbergmad]

Even better news is that Bercow has been denied a peerage.

[ahinton]

The Conservatives dont look very divided to me.

Then you're not looking carefully enough, either by accident or by design!

At last the will of the 17.4 will be enacted and the Remainer cause is dead. Even Blair admitted as much.

The Remainer cause will never be dead, especially in Scotland which for the time being is part of UK. Heseltine as well as Blair spoke of having lost, but what each of them has either omitted to allow for (or preferred to keep quiet about) is the fact that seeing Brexit through in any form will be an immensely lengthy, complex and expensive process fraught with pitfalls, not least because the rest of EU appears not to want it; the project would take years to attain completion and there can be no guarantees, especially as during the years that it would take there remain possibilities such as Scottish independence and NI rejoining the Republic, each of which would alone throw large spanners into the negotiative works.

There are also those who will simply detemine not to abide by Brexitry and will feel forced to do so irrespective of the law for fear of the very real risk of going under otherwise - and I cannot say that I blame them. It's unlikely to affect me as much as some people but I will nevertheless watch points carefully as it all unfolds...

If Labour elect another far left idiot like Corbyn, they will never get elected.

I suspect that it might not matter who the party elects as leader if the party itself is heading for its ultimate demise which, whilst by no means certain, does appear to be a possibility; that said, a Johnson government without any material opposition would be a disastrous thing to contemplate, although I presume that, were Labour to fold altogether, leaving more than 200 HoC seats no longer represented, Parliament would have to be prorogued and another GE held once a new party had been formed to replace it - and that could (and almost certainlny would) require quite some time.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

I sincerely hope that what happens is that England gets its Brexit and Scotland becomes independent and has a vote on joining the EU. That seems the most equitable solution to me. It's obvious that the English have a majority in favour of Brexit and tbh if you're going to have a referendum and then prevaricate over implementing the result then don't be surprised when a lot of people get pissed off about it. That's democracy, whether you approve of the referendum result or not.

Speaking as a pro-Scottish-independence, soft pro-EU, Corbynite loony lefty 

[ahinton]

I sincerely hope that what happens is that England gets its Brexit and Scotland becomes independent and has a vote on joining the EU. That seems the most equitable solution to me. It's obvious that the English have a majority in favour of Brexit and tbh if you're going to have a referendum and then prevaricate over implementing the result then don't be surprised when a lot of people get pissed off about it. That's democracy, whether you approve of the referendum result or not.

Speaking as a pro-Scottish-independence, soft pro-EU, Corbynite loony lefty 

If England does get "its" Brexit in some form or another - and it remains quite an "if" - what of Wales which voted narrowly for UK to leave EU but seems now to have crossed to the Remain side of the divide? And what of NI, which voted for UK to remain?

Although a Scot, I'm not in favour of Scottish independence in principle but fully understand that there might be a groundswell of opinion in Scotland in favour of it if for no other reason than that Westmonster is treating that country and its voting decision with such contempt.

Spoken as an anti-Scottish independence (but sympathetic towards the Scots' wishes), pro-EU non-Corbynite non-loony non-lefty!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Yeah - c'mon Brexit. Happen so the Scottish can again rally for a vote to gain independence and keep all the oil to themselves... instead of being conned and milked dry by the greedy English.   

But the oil will become worthless when no one any longer wants it; same for Iran, Saudi, Venezuela et al...

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

Even better news is that Bercow has been denied a peerage.

Which might not be of any great consequence were it not for the egregioous IBS sorry IDS being granted one (and I gather that a petition against this has already attracted some 150K signatures) - but then perhaps Bercow wasn't / isn't bothered whether or not he gets one (and at least his private address, &c., hasn't been revealed to all and sundry by the Cabinet Office!)...

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I hope the Scots do get another referendum and I hope they vote to leave the UK and join the EU.
They will almost certainly have to adopt the Euro, will almost certainly have to be a large net contributor with no rebate and almost certainly have to reduce their generous per head spending on their unfit drunken population.
The EU will welcome them with open arms as they need ever increasing contributions to fund their Ponzi Scheme.
The Scots may well find out they end up even less independent than they are now.
Bollox

[ahinton]

I hope the Scots do get another referendum and I hope they vote to leave the UK and join the EU.

I too hope that they get one but whether it will result in a different outc ome to the first one I cannot guess.

They will almost certainly have to adopt the Euro

Why? UK as it stands hasn't; nor have many other EU member states.

almost certainly have to reduce their generous per head spending on their unfit drunken population.

So are you happy for UK to support that population while SScotland remains a member?

The EU will welcome them with open arms

Just as they'd welcome the rest of UK if and when it asks to return.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The UK has an opt out over joining the Euro.
New members are expected to join if they qualify, albeit the last 3 members have not yet.
It would seem reasonable that an independent Scotland would at least have to be on the path to the  Euro after spending 2 years in the ERM.
The EU are welcome to the bastards.
I wonder how long the Scots will be enjoying free care homes as an independent Country.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Instant £20b windfall from not having to make a per capita contribution towards Trident, which we don't need, and if England finds so necessary, how about they store it next to one of THEIR major population centres.

You're being lied to on an industrial basis. Tories see everything on a balance sheet basis, it's not necessarily wrong to do so but it is the nature of the beast, and if Scotland was as fiscally insoluble as some people make out, they would quite happily let us disappear into the sunset.

[thalbergmad]

The Tories are essentially democrats unlike the other parties. All major players in the last Indy referendum agreed it was a once in a generation event and that needs to be upheld.
The pathetic Corbyn twat was licking the SNP's arse as he thought they might put him and his deluded cronies in power if the Election was close.
The English people saw sense and deserted his con trick give aways and now Labour will be out of power until they regain their senses.
If you voted for this vile little turd, you are gullible on an industrial basis.
Good luck in getting a good deal from the Krauts and not being allowed to fish in your own waters.