brexit?!!?

[ahinton]

The EU are welcome to the bastards.

Thank you for your kind words.

I wonder how long the Scots will be enjoying free care homes as an independent Country.

I have no idea but the situation with social care in England is hardly anything of which to be proud and it is gradually collapsing.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

The Tories are essentially democrats unlike the other parties.

You could have fooled most people!

All major players in the last Indy referendum agreed it was a once in a generation event and that needs to be upheld.

Whilst the first part of this is of course true the situation has since become quite different in that, in 2014, UK leaving EU was not on the cards whereas Scotland has clearly demonstrated that it does not wish to do this or be pushed around and dictated to by a Westmonster that largely ignores its wishes; had it not been for the spectre of Brexit, I would agree with you that indyRef 2 would be hard to justify.

The pathetic Corbyn twat was licking the SNP's arse as he thought they might put him and his deluded cronies in power if the Election was close.
The English people saw sense and deserted his con trick give aways and now Labour will be out of power until they regain their senses.

Out of power? They might well be out altogether; the party's future is far from certain.

Good luck in getting a good deal from the Krauts and not being allowed to fish in your own waters.

What makes you think that Brits will be able to do that whether or not UK leaves EU?!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Nobody can predict what is going to happen in the future, but everyone knew when they voted, that would be it for a generation.
It was the same with the EU Referendum. It was once in a lifetime vote and it had to be upheld.
If the Scots don't like it, then tough titties.

[ahinton]

Nobody can predict what is going to happen in the future,

Indeed not.

but everyone knew when they voted, that would be it for a generation.

No, they didn't; they thought that they did and, at the time, is was reasonable for them to assume that the decision, whichever way it went, would be for a generation but the prospect of UK even contemplating leaving EU had not been raised at that time; given how Scots voted in the 2016 public opinion poll, it is evident that this made a difference to the attitude of the majority of them in terms of possible independence.

It was the same with the EU Referendum. It was once in a lifetime vote and it had to be upheld.

The government that launched it thought that the result would go the other way but it depends in any case how long anyone might consider a "lifetime" to be; UK has been an EU member state for only 40+ years, which seems to me to be a very short "lifetime"...

If the Scots don't like it, then tough titties.

Er, no; if the majority of Scots disagree with the outcome of the 2016 public opinion poll, it's up to them to do whatever they consider to be necessary. We'll have to wait and see what that might be, just as we'll have to wait a long time to see what happens to Brexit itself; one thing is certain, though and that is that UK will be paying loadsamoney to EU for many years to come, even though not as much as it would otherwise have done had it remained an EU member state (but then it will receive less benefits than it would had it remained).

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

The Scots are stuck as the power is with Westminster.
Saying that, I look forward to their independence as long as it means their brain dead MP's are removed from our Parliament.
If there is no trade deal by the end of 2020, then we leave with no deal and they don't even get a penny.
The Scots can pay into their con scheme and get nothing in return if they want.

[ahinton]

The Scots are stuck as the power is with Westminster.

Only while they remain part of UK; how long they do so remains to be seen.

Saying that, I look forward to their independence as long as it means their brain dead MP's are removed from our Parliament.

You seem very contradicted, Thal, if I may say so; on the one hand, you maintain that Scotland's 2014 decision to remain a UK member state was "for a lifetime" yet, on the other, you seem glad to see the back of the Scots. You can;t have it both ways!

If there is no trade deal by the end of 2020, then we leave with no deal and they don't even get a penny.

We cannot know either of those things for certain; what we do know is that the absence of agreement on one will turn out badly for both UK and EU.

The Scots can pay into their con scheme and get nothing in return if they want.

As I wrote, we do not yet know what the Scots will do and what might follow therefrom; you yourself rightly observed that we cannot predict such things.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

@ thal: Alex Salmond specifically said "once in a political generation" which some might argue constitutes 5 years; others might say 10 or 15, but very few would say 30. And quite apart from that, he also talked in terms of no significant material change, such as Scotland being forced out the EU against her will. Add to that that all the politicians campaigning for Scotland to stay in the UK cited EU membership as a reason to stay, I think there are very good reasons for a second independence referendum. Why are you so bothered about it anyway? It's obvious you don't have a lot of respect for our people or our representatives, surely it would be better to be rid of us and then England can do what it wants without our MPs being an irritance. Best for everyone, I would have thought.

Anyway I'm not spending this time of year arguing about this. Peace. Unless you love Schumann, in which case **** off 

[thalbergmad]

I am only bothered about democracy. Salmond was too busy assaulting women to pay much attention to what was happening and I do not recall exactly what other politicians said at the time. I had the impression it was once in a generation.
I would be happy for anything that gets that fat permanently sweating git Blackford out of our Parliament.
Eternal bedlam to Schumann.

[ronde_des_sylphes]

Schumann has been deported from my house as an unwelcome immigrant.

[ahinton]

I am only bothered about democracy.

So much so that you considerd the 2016 public opinion poll to constitue a democratic exercise, which speaks eloquently for itself; indeed, when asked why I do not accept the result of that poll, I always answer that I cannot do so in all honesty because I do not accept the poll itself, as it was undemocratic.

Salmond was too busy assaulting women to pay much attention to what was happening

A cheap dig if ever there was one.

and I do not recall exactly what other politicians said at the time.

No, that fact has not escaped people's notice.

I had the impression it was once in a generation.

And it might have been so had the circumstances not changed so fundamentally in the ways that ronde-des-sylphes illustrates; don't take my word for it, read what ronde writes.

I would be happy for anything that gets that fat permanently sweating git Blackford out of our Parliament.

Losing his seat at a GE could do that but never mind that; when short of a valid answer or observation, you resort to cheap ad hominems, which do you, your debating skills and the respect that you attract no favours whatsoever.

Eternal bedlam to Schumann.

Since Schumann was neither a Scot  nor an Englishman the intended purpose of any reference to him here is less than clear.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

I like cheap digs and I don't give a monkeys testicle what others think.
Blackford almost certainly smells and is probably a whiskey breath.
I am amazed the fat git can actually stand up.

[ahinton]

I like cheap digs and I don't give a monkeys testicle what others think.
Blackford almost certainly smells and is probably a whiskey breath.
I am amazed the fat git can actually stand up.

I doubt that you have any monkey's testicles to give. Ad hominems still do you no favours.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Naff off

[ahinton]

Naff off

Happy New Year to you too!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Down to the last 30 days.

[ahinton]

Down to the last 30 days.

The "last 20 days" of what? The route to Armageddon? Or until that EU based record label Piano Classics releases Jonathan Powell's recording of Sorabji's Sequentia cyclica?

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

The "last 20 days" of what? The route to Armageddon? Or until that EY based record label Piano Classics releases Jonathan Powell's recording of Sorabji's Sequentia cyclica?

Oh for f@#$s sake... can't you keep comments like that in the threads you started and NOT use every thread to go on about bloody Sorabji???

If it's 20 days until it's released, then it's another 20,000 years before I could start giving a f@#!

...(which is a time period considerably shorter than any of his damn works go for)

[ahinton]

Oh for f@#$s sake... can't you keep comments like that in the threads you started and NOT use every thread to go on about bloody Sorabji???

Can't take a joke, then? How sad, when it's obviously neither more nor less that one! Anyway, which threads did I start? (I can find only one in recent times). And to how many started by others might you supppose that I have contributed posts? (or did you omit to give thought to that before writing as you have?)...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

Can't take a joke, then?

Oh, I can take a joke - problem is, you're not funny.

You know the thread you started... how about you keep your advertising about Sorabji for that. Feel free to prattle on in that thread.
I didn't start the Radiation hiss thread - that was someone else, you can feel free to go ahead and discuss your views on Sorabji since the subject was brought up...

But Sorabji has NOTHING to do with Brexit at all... so how about you keep your advertising to a minimum unless the subject is brought up naturally.

[ahinton]

Oh, I can take a joke - problem is, you're not funny.

My comment wasn't meant to be funny; it was merely frivolous and thereforewasn't intended to be taken seriously, so was a "joke" in that sense alone.

You know the thread you started... how about you keep your advertising about Sorabji for that.

I do indeed know it. Are you seeking to suggest that all references to Sorabji are unwelcome other than in threads specifically intended to discuss his work? Maybe not, but clarification wouldn't come amiss.

I didn't start the Radiation hiss thread - that was someone else, you can feel free to go ahead and discuss your views on Sorabji since the subject was brought up...

No, I know that you didn't - and I'm sure that you'd have had more sense than to do so - but, again, confining all mention of Sorabji to threads that mention his name in their titles would seem uncommonly restrictive; would you expect the same of Chopin, Liszt or Alkan?

But Sorabji has NOTHING to do with Brexit at all...

Of course he hasn't; after all, he died almost 28 years before the 2016 public opinion poll on the subject! But again, you appear to have interpreted a wilfully frivolous off-the-cuff remark literally as though a serious and seriously misplaced belief on my part that he does have something to do with Brexit! Mon Dieu!

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

This now moving well beyond satire!

But Sorabji has NOTHING to do with Brexit at all...

Well, both are completely interminable.. 

Also, would Sorabji get deported under current regulations?

[thalbergmad]

After today's events carried out by the excellent President Trump, perhaps we should start deporting Iranians.

[ahinton]

Well, both are completely interminable

No; Sequentia cyclica has a specific duration of just over 500 minutes although this will vary somewhat from performance to performance, like almost any other piece, whereas the spectre of Brexit, having reared its ugly head in une 2016 currently looks set to contiue for many years and will almost certainly do so until or unless someone if UK decides to call a halt to it.

Also, would Sorabji get deported under current regulations?

I've never previously encountered the deportation or threatened deportation of anyone who has been dead for more than 31 years; had he been alive today, I very much doubt it, though, since he would not have been convicted of a crime and was born in UK an UK citizen.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

After today's events carried out by the excellent President Trump, perhaps we should start deporting Iranians.

Who might "we" be? Presumably, in what purports still to be some kind of democracy, people would be deported only if they are non-UK citizens, were born outside UK and have committed serious crimes or been found to have entered UK illegally. Are you suggesting that Iranian citizens should be deported from their countries of residence (or even of birth) purely by virtue of being Iranian rather than for having committed serious crimes?

I'm not even sure that I would be deported to an independent Scotland (should Scotland become independent) even though born there, since I was born a UK citizen and have committed no crimes but, who knows, I could be wrong about that.

To what particular "excellent events" might you refer here anyway?

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

You should be deported to Thurso. After a couple of years, you might actually be grateful for being allowed to dwell in this beautiful Country.
I am referring (as you know very well) to the assassination of that Iranian General as ordered by President Trump.
Now is the time for us to instantly deport Iranians being allowed by the Frogs to illegally enter this Country.
Thal

[ahinton]

You should be deported to Thurso.

As a matter of fact I have already lived there, albeit a good few years ago - but who should deport me there and on what grounds? It couldn't be done in any case unless Scotland had already become independent of UK - or had you momentarily forgotten that?

After a couple of years, you might actually be grateful for being allowed to dwell in this beautiful Country.

I'm not complaining about living in it now, although it looks set to get to be a worse and worse place in which to continue to do so.

I am referring (as you know very well) to the assassination of that Iranian General as ordered by President Trump.

I thought so but preferred to be absolutely sure, since you describe it as "excellent events".

For one thing, it was one event only.

For another, US and Iran are not at war, so if that assassination occurred not only on Trump's watch but also at his behest and with his approval, his warmonger credentials are clearly on the increase; given the rash of different escalating tensions right across the Middle East already from Waziristan to Morocco, not least Turkish involvement in Libya, Russia poking rather more than its nose in and the developing Chinese interests in Africa, trying to stoke the fires still further is about as stupid as firebombing south eastern Australia.

Now is the time for us to instantly deport Iranians being allowed by the Frogs to illegally enter this Country.

Have you stopped to think first about how many Iranians are already in UK legally, many of them living and working here and many with dual or UK citizenship (not to mention one UK Iranian who is not in UK because she's still being held in an Iranian jail)? Illegal immigrants are illegal immigrants; if any can be caught, why deport Iranian ones rather than those from anywhere else? But as I've said before more than once (so I apologise for repeating myself), you can't deport any illegal immigrants from anywhere until you have first found them, charged them, tried them and convicted them (in what I presume you would regard as not "silly court cases"), so there can be nothing "instant" about such processes.

I hold absolutely no brief for the current régime in Iran or for the General who has been killed - far from it, indeed - but countries should be careful about assassinating major figures in and from countries with which they are not officially at war.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

My comment wasn't meant to be funny

That's okay - as I said, it wasn't.

Are you seeking to suggest that all references to Sorabji are unwelcome other than in threads specifically intended to discuss his work?

I did say very clearly that you are more than welcome to prattle on about Sorabji in threads that you have started. No one mentioned him in this thread - and considering lately it's ALL you've been prattling on about - it's getting incessant and pathetic.

confining all mention of Sorabji to threads that mention his name in their titles would seem uncommonly restrictive; would you expect the same of Chopin, Liszt or Alkan?

That's usually how society contributes information. Once a topic is discussed, we add in other relevant knowledge about said subject. To continually nag on about what you want to talk about is what Primary children usually do when they want to talk about their subject but the teacher won't let them.

you appear to have interpreted a wilfully frivolous off-the-cuff remark

Not one word of that is true.

as though a serious and seriously misplaced belief on my part that he does have something to do with Brexit! Mon Dieu!

It was your pathetic attempt to slag off Thalbergmad about his view on Sorabji in A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THREAD and to once again prove you are a Sorabji fanboy who just loves waving his pom-poms and cheering him on.



P.S. You DO realise you don't need to sign your name after each post... we KNOW you're name is Alistair.

[dogperson]

This has become like a book you haven’t read but you read 599 reviews; so much overkill you begin to wonder if you to need to read it after all.  I hope we can give this CD release topic a rest.

[ahinton]

That's okay - as I said, it wasn't.

I did say very clearly that you are more than welcome to prattle on about Sorabji in threads that you have started. No one mentioned him in this thread - and considering lately it's ALL you've been prattling on about - it's getting incessant and pathetic.

That's usually how society contributes information. Once a topic is discussed, we add in other relevant knowledge about said subject. To continually nag on about what you want to talk about is what Primary children usually do when they want to talk about their subject but the teacher won't let them.

Not one word of that is true.

It was your pathetic attempt to slag off Thalbergmad about his view on Sorabji in A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THREAD and to once again prove you are a Sorabji fanboy who just loves waving his pom-poms and cheering him on.

All the above just because I made a frivolous off-the-cuff not-to-be-taken-seriously remark that happened to include a particular composer's name! Clearly, you have ample time on your hands. If you did not appreciate said reference, you're doing a far better job of drawing attention to it than I did!

P.S. You DO realise you don't need to sign your name after each post... we KNOW you're name is Alistair.

Nor need Thal - but he does so nonetheless.

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

This has become like a book you haven’t read but you read 599 reviews; so much overkill you begin to wonder if you to need to read it after all.  I hope we can give this CD release topic a rest.

I doubt if it will go away anytime soon.

[ahinton]

I doubt if it will go away anytime soon.

The CD box will be released (indeed I believe that it already has been in some territories) and if anyone wants to write about it they're welcome to do so and doubtless will do so, albeit preferably not in a thread about Brexit!

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

The CD box will be released

Sorexit.

[ahinton]

Sorexit.

!!!

But let's hope that it will Remain in the catalogue for a long time!

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

All the above just because I made a frivolous off-the-cuff not-to-be-taken-seriously remark

You made yet another reference to a composer that most people don't give a sh!t about. The end.

But let's hope that it will Remain in the catalogue for a long time!

I'm hoping that just like Hitler, they take all the Sorabji CD's, stick them in a big pile...

...and they BURN THEM!!!

[ahinton]

You made yet another reference to a composer that most people don't give a sh!t about. The end.

I'm hoping that just like Hitler, they take all the Sorabji CD's, stick them in a big pile...

...and they BURN THEM!!!

You do not clarify who "they" are. I had no idea in any case that Hitler destroyed, or ordered the destruction of recordings of Sorabji's music in a medium that was not even around until almost four decades after his death, but never mind.

But so what if anyone did this (not that anyone would likely be interested in doing so)? It will all be available online. I've had a copy on my HDD for almost two years. So it ain't going away anywhere, like it or not!

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

It will all be available online. I've had a copy on my HDD for almost two years.

Servers crash, disk drives fail... one can only hope!!!     

[thalbergmad]

It will soon be on the trash heap of history. Like the EU which was the original subject of this thread before it was hijacked.

[ahinton]

Servers crash, disk drives fail... one can only hope!!!     

Of course they do - no medium is permanently foolproof - but then backups are so easy to make and retain on-premises, off-premises and in the cloud! Indeed, you have - albeit no doubt inadvertently and unwittingly - raised here the interesting point that technological developments have made it far harder, if not actually impossible, to ensure the wholesale destruction of any historical recorded legacy today than was the case only 40 years ago when CDs were the new kid on the block.

Much the same can be said of edited / typeset Sorabji scores, in that not only have backup copies been made but also those who acquire copies of them would also be able to reproduce them in the event of such an emergency; without the benefit of these, it would be quite impossible for this music to reach performance and recording stage.

Accordingly, all due credit must go to the diligent, conscientious and gifted editors who have over the years turned much of Sorabji's output - several thousand pages so far - into easily reproduceable typeset form (although there's still quite a way to go), including almost all of his vast corpus of piano music, the main exceptions being a handful of works whose edition are currently in progress, including Toccata terza whose manuscript was discovered only a few months ago after being believed lost for the past six decades.

In any event, if what you write about were to happen everywhere without exception, it would affect all recordings, not just this one.

This isn't about Brexit, though and my response above is solely to a post that is also not about Brexit.

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

It will soon be on the trash heap of history.

Odd, then, that you predict it to buck the long-standing trend for Sorabji recordings to the extent that, of more than 40 made over the past 30+ years, almost all remain available for purchase today, which is more than can be said for many other recordings of lesser known music. More new Sorabji recordings are in any case in the pipeline, as I believe you know, including the three that I mentioned earlier.

But enought about Sorabji in this thread where discussion of him has no reason to belong.

Like the EU which was the original subject of this thread before it was hijacked.

That's what some Brexiteers and certain others outside UK hope - that Brexit will, intentionally or otherwise, become the harbinger of EU's ultimate demise - to which my only possible response has to be "be careful what you wish for"; after all, if EU does collapse, it will inevitably be replaced by something, just as the victim of a certain recent assassination in the Middle East will be replaced by someone else if indeed his replacement has not already been appointed.

As a matter of interest, should EU eventually collapse, with what do you anticipate - or with what might you like - it to be replaced? (a question that I appreciate is far easier to ask than to answer with any certainty)...

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

ALISTAIR... You've written literally 2 long paragraphs in response to a sentence answer.

This isn't about Brexit, though and my response above is solely to a post that is also not about Brexit.

You were the one who derailed the damn thread. How about you shut up about Sorabji and we can all get back to talking about Brexit!!!

[ahinton]

ALISTAIR... You've written literally 2 long paragraphs in response to a sentence answer.

So?...

You were the one who derailed the damn thread. How about you shut up about Sorabji and we can all get back to talking about Brexit!!!

If a throwaway remark made in jest followed by responses to others' references to Sorabji on this thread represents a derailment thereof, the train must have been pretty frail in the first place; no Alkanic Chemin de fer, that's for sure.

Anyway, as you may note, I already wrote above
"This isn't about Brexit, though and my response above is solely to a post that is also not about Brexit."

To that extent, we seem to be on the same wavelength.

What is arguably as bothersome as anything in respect of Brexit right now is that the UK Labour Party is in such unprecedented disarray (far worse even than in the days of Michael Foot some four decades ago) that it might well find itself to be irrecoverable and consequently obliged to shut up shop once and for all, clearing the way for Boris Johnson to flail about in whatever ways might take his fancy with no material opposition for the foreseeable future (i.e. unless and until some new party is formed and can win seats in HoC); quite how all of that might play out is anyone's or no-one's guess.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

If a throwaway remark made in jest

It was unwarranted. The end.

[ahinton]

It was unwarranted. The end.

To you, perhaps - but maybe that's because you're making far too big an issue of it, by which you do yourself no favours.

Best,

Alistair

[perfect_pitch]

We desperately need an 'ignore users post' function.

[ahinton]

We desperately need an 'ignore users post' function.

Who might "we" be and for whose benefit might such a facility be considered?

That said, no forum member is under any obligation to read posts that he/she chooses not to.

Best,

Alistair

[ronde_des_sylphes]

To that extent, we seem to be on the same wavelength.

A microwave radiation noise wavelength, I trust..

[ahinton]

A microwave radiation noise wavelength, I trust.

Ha ha!

Best,

Alistair

[ahinton]

I make no secret of the fact that I oppose Brexit and did so right from the get-go, believing as I do that, in any form but especially a no-deal one, it will be bad for EU, bad for UK, bad for each UK member state (of which, of course, two voted for it and two against) and, ultimately, bad for the rest of Europe (and it's worth remembering that EU is only a small part of Europe as a whole).

Moreover, it has been clear ever since the public opinion poll was launched that the entire thing has not been properly throught through by intelligent politicians, the handling of "negotiations" by UK since June 2016 illustrating this fact to perfection.

Even now, it is far from clear how it might all pan out of what it will cost in terms of employment, the economy and the rest.

I recognise, of course, that there is no shortage of corruption within EU's institutions but then so there is within UK ones.

It is also interesting that metropolitan UK - the capital most especially - largely favoured Remain and the reasons for that deserve to be examined in depth.

I won't re-rehearse the background here and now but two factors remain crucial to the histroy of BRexit so far:

1. There was and is no incontrovertible evidence of a widespread public demand for UK's EU membership to be examined and reviewed.

2. Even if there had been such identifiable and provable public demand, UK has a set of internationally respected Parliamentary democratic procedures of long standing that entail debating and voting in both Houses of Parliament and these should have been used under such circumstances rather than ducking responsibility for them and handing it over to the electorate to provide its largely unqualified and non-legally binding advice.

A further issue which I have recently heard discussed briefly is whether, should Brexit in some form actually be seen through, UK might reapply for EU membership; whilst this on the face of it seems daft and an immense waste of time and money, it is worth bearing in mind that none of the other 27 EU member states wanted UK to leave.

And anyone interested in my post might do well to note that it mentions not a single composer's name!

Best,

Alistair

[thalbergmad]

Another step closer. Sailed through the commons and the Scots effectively told to get stuffed.
The shoe is on the other foot now and no silly ammendements or court cases is going to stop it.
The Lords wouldn't dare try to thwart the process.
The shackles are loosening.

[perfect_pitch]

Another step closer. Sailed through the commons and the Scots effectively told to get stuffed.

Hopefully the Scots will once again get a vote for independence... and then tell the English to go f@#$ themselves and re-join the EU.