Fantasie Impromptu Project

[candlelightpiano]

DT:  Awesome recording!!!!!  After watching Horowitz perform this piece, I now feel like ending my piano vacation this second!!!!  Even though I've only had a one day vacation so far.  Why can't we expect a video from you for this piece?  I'll post videos because I need feedback. You don't. You're a fine pianist. Still, I would enjoy watching you play this piece. I got to know about this piece from the Anthology of Romantic Piano Music by Maurice Hinson. Book comes with DVD and he performs this piece and provides practice notes.  I loved it when I heard it and the melody haunted me for days. Yeah, I thought Horowitz was also flicking off a fly!! I need to watch Hinson again. See if he does the same thing. So when will you begin this piece? Or have you already started?  Well, if you begin it now, you can provide me with some tips when I start, probably next week or in the next few days, depending on how I feel.

ZOE:  Since you're mingling among risktakers, I have a feeling our behavior will rub off on you!!!  I don't know if that's good or bad.

[zoecalgary]

Choo I got the music off of IMSLP. A nice copy but no fingerings (ugh!! I'll have to put my own I guess to help in the beginning)

I am going to the piano now!! And, I will let you know how it goes. This site says it is level 7 (whatever that means!!) Yes I agree about taking risks. It provides excitement in our life! Like you whenever I've taken risks I have never regretted it. So Listz here I come full throttle ahead. (probably to be stopped in my tracks) but I am ready to tackle this. Wish me luck!!

[costicina]

Good luck with Consolation 3, Zoe (and Choo, or area you still for the Funeral march?).
It's a great piece, not excessively  demanding from the technical point of view, but a  wonderful training for musicality, touch, nuances....
(I was ashamed to confess that only looking at the score the strange hand movement of Horowitz made sense to me: what a relief to discover that you, too, were puzzled! )
Marg
P.S. Perhaps I've a fingered score, I should check. If I'll find it, I'll scannerize  it for you

[candlelightpiano]

ZOE:  Mine has the fingerings on it, if you'd like to take a look. Check some other websites for free piano scores. You may find one with fingerings. Otherwise, I can try scanning mine for you and send it to you via email. I'm glad that you and DT approve of my choice of music.  Let's see, you joined me in FI and now we're going on to Consolation. I'm very pleased to have both of you on board again. It's much more fun than doing it alone. Zoe, you should record your performance for us on YouTube. I'm sure you play piano a lot better than I do.

I'm going to try and listen to Hinson perform and talk about this piece again before I start. I'm trying to be disciplined about taking a full break from piano but you and DT are making it difficult for me. Slow down!

[zoecalgary]

Hi Choo, I'll look around to see if I can see something with some fingering written in. Don't worry about keeping up with me! HaHa. You make me laugh! Enjoy your break! Don't rush back to anything until you are really ready! You will likely surpass me in a jiffy. I have a bit of extra free time today (because my kids are home sick with nasty colds and I don't have extra running around!) so I thought I would take the time to check out this piece for awhile.  Well I wrote all the fingering up until bar 19 for both hands.  This was a good exercise because it really forces me to make sure I have the right notes. I wondered about some of my choices when the chord changes (I kept the fingering the same for the most part, but wondered if this would trip me up later) For instance in bar 1 I'm using LH - 52412452412. I kept the same fingering in bar 4. Does your score show the same or different?  Plus this is a key that's new to me so it was slow going but I am determined!  I think trouble is going to start for me in bar 19. I'll worry about bars 1-18 for awhile. I will record something but I think it will take me a long awhile to get the hands together so it will be awhile before you see/hear me. I saw a tutorial on youtube that said if I concentrate on where the beats come together the rest of the notes will eventually fall into place. I can't say I've ever had anything just fall into place so if that actually happens for me it will truly be magic! This is exciting!

[zoecalgary]

I found a copy that had some fingerings in it. Oh, I answered my own question. The fingering does change. I kind of suspected that but not I'll have to go back and see which I prefer. Thanks for the offer to send your music. I think I should be okay now. 

[candlelightpiano]

OK. I'm going to post a new thread for Consolation so that we can all go there and chat about it. I just began listening to the Taubman lectures and want to complete it before I start anything new but I can begin the Consolation thread first. So I'll drop the link here when I have it done. Could you post the Youtube link on the new thread, the one that discusses how to approach practising this piece?

Then, we'll say goodbye to this FI thread for our vacation and move on to Consolation. I'm not planning to practice it yet but I'll research it and be happy to give you any info on it that I have.

Be back with new thread link...

[candlelightpiano]

Let's meet at the new Consolation Topic:

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=45007.0

See you guys there! I'll return to this FI thread when my FI vacation ends in about a month. Thanks for all your support and encouragement. I'll be back!!

[auga]

Hi!  Could someone please tell me what the last note in the right hand of Bar 30 is?  It would appear to be a D, because there is a doublesharp on the earlier C in the bar...but it sounds better as a C#.  Confused!

[candlelightpiano]

Hi!  Could someone please tell me what the last note in the right hand of Bar 30 is?  It would appear to be a D, because there is a doublesharp on the earlier C in the bar...but it sounds better as a C#.  Confused!

It's C sharp.

[candlelightpiano]

I'm back from FI vacation and I'm now taking lessons. I had my first FI lesson today. 

First of all, my teacher said that FI is a good piece to learn.  There are no awkward movements, like Op 35. I can't remember what else he said about this being a good piece to learn. 

This is what I learned today:

I need to have loose and active fingers for the running passages on page 1 and elsewhere.  It's hard to explain but it's like tapping on the keys.  You hear a tap, tap, tap, but no sound so it's very light.  It's also instantaneous, like tossing a ball with no restrictions on your movement.  A stop and go. And it's slightly higher off the keys but not too high. We practiced on the keys as well as on the back of our hands, on the sheet music, on the lid of the piano. I hope I'll get it. 

Too much pedaling for the beginning running passages.  He demonstrated with the pedal at different levels and he said I'd have to learn to adjust that as pedals work a bit differently on different pianos. I can't remember how he described his pedaling.  It wasn't half pedal but something like that. Need to bring a recorder next week, for sure!

The octave passage (bars 13 - 24) requires the use of the arm, especially for the accents, not the fingers. It's a lyrical passage. And he said I was not getting the 4 in 3 polyrhythms there.  No surprise!   

Change of fingering for the first 3 notes of bar 14 as I was stumbling like crazy - from 4 3 5 to 325.  He said to avoid 435 for this piece, if at all possible.

The middle passage needs a more legato touch, keeping the fingers on the keys as much as possible.  A gliding touch. And I was screwing up the 3 in 2 polyrhythms!  They've become the bane of my existence!

Last but not least, to begin every practice by playing through my pieces from a cold start with no stops or backtracking.  I plan to do this as often as possible and also do one take recordings for this forum to get into the mode of a performance.

So that's it.  I'm not ready to post a recording yet. It may be a while. 

[costicina]

Welcome back to FI, Choo!!
Your teacher gave you great advices, he must be really good. And since you are a brillinat, dedicated student, the result will be great.
Good luck!!!
Marg

[twirler]

I see you have gone to lessons. Good luck with that piece.

[elenka]

I'm also struggling with this piece the 6 to 4 is so terrible to play together! But I think it would be a problem for everyone who's going to learn this piece, however my teacher suggested me to let the rythm come in first, so try to play on the table in order to get the right rythm into my fingers and then try to play it on the piano...

[candlelightpiano]

Elenka:  It's not 6 to 4.  It's 4 to 3. I don't have a problem with all of them, only the octave passage mentioned above.  Tapping on table, clapping the rhythm all helps. I hope you'll join us for this piece, posting videos of your work in progress. It will be fun to have you along.  Have you completed this piece?

Twirler: Welcome!  Why don't you post your piece here?  I think I will post the middle section because I screwed up the polyrhythms and I'm learning a new legato touch. That way, I can get feedback from all of you to find out if I'm playing it right.  Perhaps you can do that, too, for your middle section.  Once I get it right, I'll post here.

Marg:  You found me!!  As I said to Twirler, I'm having to redo this piece so I think I'll begin  by posting the middle section again.  The last time I did, I screwed up the polyrhythms.  I did the same thing at my lesson so I should work on it and post again.  Not ready to post full piece yet.  When I get the octave passage 4 in 3 polyrhythm and the arm movements he wants, I'll also post a video of that segment. 

Thanks for joining us!

[elenka]

Oh yes sorry 4 to 3 I was still sleeping this mornig when I wrote that...
I don't have completed it yet but I'm still working on the first parte and on moderato cantabile
Sure, when I'll get back my piano, because this morning the piano tuner took away the part with hammers because they need to be adjusted, I will record a performancee but I don't promise anything about how good will be

[candlelightpiano]

That's wonderful, Elenka.  This is a work-in-progress project so none of us are expected to produce a video fit for the audition room.  If we were doing that well, we would post in the audition room!  I'm starting all over again so once I get some work on the various parts, I'll also post videos of my work in progress.  And I usually do one take recordings, which means there will be mistakes on the recordings and I post it anyway to show my work in progress.  And now my teacher wants me to learn to play with loose and active fingers so I'm really starting all over and I'm not even sure I know how to have loose and active fingers!!

How long have you been working on this piece?

[twirler]

Well here is my playing.(Gotta work on the middle part)

.
I am going to retake my playing soon. Its not as perfect as I want it to be. Also, sorry about the heavy pedalling, also working on that.

My first month of playing FI I pressed so hard on the keyboard that you wouldn't believe it. I slowly learn how to counter that with the help of my teacher. Maybe next time I will make a video on how I play the FI.

[zoecalgary]

Hi twirler! Very nicely done. I enjoyed this very much. I am far fro
 This level of playing but I have been following this thread with interest and have learned so much. Thanks for posting it. Choo (candlelightpiano) is going to be thrilled to see/hear this!

[candlelightpiano]

Zoe, I've already watched Twirler playing FI.  He posted in the Audition Room and we had a  chat there.  His runs are absolutely brilliant.  I don't think I'll be able to do that in a million years!!!  It's all a big struggle for me.  Can you believe he is only now preparing for his Grade 5 ABRSM practical exam? I told him that after FI, his exam pieces should be a piece of cake!

Twirler, thanks for posting the video.  You play the runs so brilliantly I'm envious.  How do you manage to play bar 34 so well?  I'm always messing up the LH and the RH is difficult too.  And how did you play the last page so well?  I find the RH of bars 127 to 134 very confusing.  My fingers get all confused and jumbled up! Please post a video telling us how you do such brilliant runs!  My whole piece is a mess!  I just watched Birba's video for bars 30 to 40 and toward the end, he suggested that I play from the beginning musically in slow motion. I haven't done that so I'm going to work on it  If I can get the whole piece in slow mo, I'll post a video!  It'll be the slowest FI you ever saw!    

[elenka]

Candlelightpiano: I'm working on it since the middle of January, but I had to stop beacause I had to study for my graduation, so I beagan on the right side, but now that I stopped to learn it, seems to be much more difficult to study it again...But I've also started other pieces, and especially I have to complete Mozart's piano sonata K 333 and Bach's Symphony n.3 in D...I don't know whether keep going on also with Chopin's Fantasie-Impromptu the more I try to play it the worse it comes out...

[candlelightpiano]

Elenka, I feel the same way you do.  I stopped FI for a month to start Consolation and now it seems to be worse than ever!  The more I work on it, the worse it gets!  I worked on it for 2 months and completed it but with more mistakes than you can imagine!  I have so many stops and starts and it's so messy I can't record a video.  Now I think I'm going to practice the whole thing, except the middle section, in slow motion from beginning to end but even that will take time.  I hope you decide to continue with it and join us.  Perhaps you could just work on it 15-20 mins a day when you take a break from your other pieces.  It's good to do it when you're young.  I wish I had learned it when I was younger because as you get older, it gets so much harder.  I also had a 19 year break from piano so it's more difficult than ever.  I don't plan to spend that much time on it either as I see it as a long project (years!).  While working on it, I'll be learning other pieces. 

[starstruck5]

Very good Twirler I thought. As you say the middle section needs work -at the moment you are playing some notes here with very odd accents -if the opening section is breathless passion, the middle section is a ship which has sailed out of a violent storm -it is reflective and calm, but yet heartbreakingly it is a cry in the dark -each phrase must be very distinctive and answering the one before.

[candlelightpiano]

Starstruck:  I love the way you describe FI and the middle section!  I wish you'd play this piece. I could use some help with it.  Every time I played the middle section, Kyle (who used to be on this topic lots with me) said I played it with no passion. I was always trying to remember the notes - and still am today.  I haven't practiced this piece much in the last month and now I've forgotten some of it. Perhaps you could just play the middle section for us. That would really be cool.  Twirler said his teacher told him to learn the middle section by himself.  His runs are absolutely brilliant, though.  I am green with envy!

[austinarg]

How do you manage to keep the middle notes running in bars 13 to 24? I just can't, it's like my fingers are made of stone 

[candlelightpiano]

Welcome, Austinarg!  It's too bad that Birba deleted his videos because he made one for us about that section, which we call the octave passage.  I'll try and describe how he taught us to handle this section.  For example, in bar 13, where the first four 16th notes are G#, G#, C and C#, in order to reduce tension (for me, anyway), his method was to get me to hold on to the first G#, then quickly play the upper G# and C and C# and return back to the lower G# in a ball position. Do this for every 16th note group.  Once you can do this, you do this for 2 groups.  I don't know if you are tense when playing this octave passage, though.  

Twirler plays this section brilliantly. Perhaps he can describe in a video how he plays it.

I have a teacher now and he tells me to use my arm for the accents but he says I'm not getting the polyrhythms.  I thought I was so I'm re-doing this section.  If you like, I can record a video showing you how Birba taught me to play this section.

I hope you're going to join us and post videos of your work in progress.  The more, the merrier!

[twirler]

Well it is very hard to describe on how I play those passages, it all seems so natural to me, even when I first learnt it. One thing I have( which my teacher had noted) is finger independence on all fingers. Got those from video games  .

These was how my lesson with FI goes

1st week : Teacher teaches how to get the timing right between the right and left hands, and I only get to play measure 5 to 8
2nd week : Teacher teaches me timing again from measure 9 to 12 and I memorise until bar 39 myself
3rd week : Played until bar 39 for the teacher. He said it was okay and helped me to perfect that part. I then memorise the rest of the song.
4th week : Done playing the whole song. Correct some of my obvious mistakes and teaches me how to go smoother
5th week : Teaches me little bit about the phrasing and dynamics of the song.He then told me I can perfect the song myself.

Maybe this seems unbelievable but it's the truth on how I learnt this piece.Sorry for bragging a little 

[austinarg]

Welcome, Austinarg!  It's too bad that Birba deleted his videos because he made one for us about that section, which we call the octave passage.  I'll try and describe how he taught us to handle this section.  For example, in bar 13, where the first four 16th notes are G#, G#, C and C#, in order to reduce tension (for me, anyway), his method was to get me to hold on to the first G#, then quickly play the upper G# and C and C# and return back to the lower G# in a ball position. Do this for every 16th note group.  Once you can do this, you do this for 2 groups.  I don't know if you are tense when playing this octave passage, though.  

Twirler plays this section brilliantly. Perhaps he can describe in a video how he plays it.

I have a teacher now and he tells me to use my arm for the accents but he says I'm not getting the polyrhythms.  I thought I was so I'm re-doing this section.  If you like, I can record a video showing you how Birba taught me to play this section.

I hope you're going to join us and post videos of your work in progress.  The more, the merrier!

So, if I understand correctly, I should:

-play the low G# and hold it
- play the high G#, C and C# quickly
-go back to G# with a hand contraction

Is that right?

I don't have any problems playing the octaves, the problem is that my fingers don't react when playing the middle notes, they become stiff, so to speak.

[candlelightpiano]

TWIRLER:  You're too funny!!  You're very talented and very young, both great assets to have and having the independence of fingers is a big plus!  You are allowed to brag a bit!!!    You make me laugh!  Well, I wish I had your talent and your youth but I have neither so I will just have to struggle on.  Maybe I should go play some video games!!!   

I do have some questions for you:  What fingering do you use for the RH for the first 4 semiquavers of bar 12  (A#, G#, B)? And what fingering do you use for the RH notes of bar 33 and 34?  

Austinarg is having some problems getting through bars 13 to 24.  How did you manage to play that section so well?

[candlelightpiano]

AUSTINARG:  Yes, that's how I was taught to play that section but I'll make a short video today to show you what I mean.  How long have you been working on this piece? 

[twirler]

Bar 12 : 3,2,4,1
Bar 33 : 2,3,2,1,2,5,4,3,2,1,3,2,1,4,3,2,
Bar 34 : 1,3,1,2,1,5,4,3,2,1,3,2,1,4,3,2

I admit I had a little trouble when playing bar 13-24 last time. These was what I did.

I made sure my hand is extremely relaxed and play each note softly and evenly as possible, even if it was very slow. I made sure there are no strain whatsoever on my hands( I can play that section alone for hours without getting tired).
Maybe you can start by trilling softly between C and C# near the top of the keyboard and make sure its even. Slowly you work your way up to speed. That was what I did anyway.
Well austin can you make a video on how you play that section, so the people here can see what is your troubles and give you proper advices to overcome them.

[austinarg]

First of all, thank you for your detailed responses, you are a great help 

I currently can't record a video of my performance, since my sister broke my camcorder  , and it will be repaired in about one week.

About my problem, I like to play deep into the keys, near the top, but I've seen other videos of people playing it like I do and they have no issues with that part.

Also, I've been working on this piece for about 2 weeks, dividing it into 7 sections and attacking each one individually, bars 13 to 24 would be the 2nd section.

[candlelightpiano]

Twirler:  Thanks for the fingering.  I need to make changes to mine because I'm having trouble with my present fingering.  Excellent advice on how you practiced the octave passage. I need to work on it, too.  How about bars 127 to 134? How did you practice that so your fingers weren't stumbling over themselves? 

Austinarg:  I'll make a video today to show you how Birba taught me to get this passage.  I'm still struggling with it, though.  Twirler's advice is excellent. 

[starstruck5]

One of my favourite FI's ever this -the way Valentina plays the middle section says it all for me.

[candlelightpiano]

Octave passage for Austinarg:

To everyone who is watching this video, can you please tell me if I'm getting the 4 in 3 polyrhythms?  

STARSTRUCK:  Valentina Igoshina is one of my favorite Chopinists.  I especially love the way she plays the Raindrop Prelude.  Love the way she plays FI, of course. That middle section is so soulful.

[starstruck5]

The polys sound ok to me!  You are playing in time.   

I don't think Chopin wrote those polyrhythms to make it harder for us to play -he wrote them because he wanted to instill a sense of agitation. If the notes were in agreement -it would be like a Bach prelude! It is this disgareement between the hands which imparts a boiling turmoil.

You play the passage correctly - keep at it Choo!

[austinarg]

Thanks for the video, it was a revelation

I'll try to apply the hand movement and report later with the results 

By the way, sorry for not introducing myself before, my name is Austin (like you didn't know ) . Can I know yours?

[candlelightpiano]

Hi Austin:  My name is Choo.  Can you tell us more about yourself?  Your piano background, for example? 

What do you mean when you said the video was a revelation?

We look forward to your videos.  I don't when I'll ever post a video of the whole piece, which is at this point in time, a spectacular disaster!!!!      After taking a month off, I hoped it would get better but it's only gotten worse!  In fact, it was better the first month at it.  So I'll work on it for another month and if I show no improvement, I guess I'll go on another FI vacation.  By that time, you may have completed the piece and posted to the Audition room, like Twirler has done.   

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks, Starstruck!  I was beginning to wonder how to go about practicing that passage if I wasn't getting the polyrhythms.  I had absolute confidence in Birba's teaching technique.  But since my teacher told me I wasn't getting them right, I decided to try another method but I'll go back to doing it the way Birba taught me.  I think if my teacher keeps telling me I'm getting it wrong, it's time to find another teacher! 

[austinarg]

Well, it is a revelation, I had never thought of approaching that octaves passage that way.

About my background, I've been playing for about 4 years, although not that much, but last month I began exploring different composers and pieces and felt the need to play them. I was thinking of starting a project here on Chopin etudes Op.10 no. 1 and 4 as soon as I get FI done. What do you think?

[candlelightpiano]

Austin:  I think it's a great idea to begin projects on those two Chopin etudes when you're done with FI.  They're incredibly fast, though.  I don't think I'm ready for them yet.  I'm having difficulty with the fast passages in FI in some sections.  They're not even as fast as the ones in the two etudes, especially #4.  When Birba showed us how to approach the octave passage, it was a revelation to us, too.  Before that, I struggled mightily with the polyrhythms and the accents but after working on it the way he suggested, I was able to fit them HT quite easily. But I'm still not playing the passage smoothly enough.  Let me know if the hand movements work better for you than what you've tried so far.

You mentioned in your post above that you've seen some people play deep into the keys and they don't have any problems.  Were they playing FI? Could you post their videos here so we know what you're talking about?

[candlelightpiano]

I'm sure most of you have watched Paul Barton's tutorial on FI but I thought I'd post it here, anyway, so it will be easier for us to make reference to it as we learn this piece:

Here he plays the whole piece:

[candlelightpiano]

FI Middle Section.  It still needs a lot of work.  My LH is too loud and not legato enough and my trills need work as well as tone and everything else. 

To everyone who is watching:

Can you please give me feedback on my polyrhythms?  There are a good number in this section and I've been told that I haven't got them right. Thanks. 

[austinarg]

Well, Choo, I watched your video several times, practiced what you did there yesterday, and guess what: this morning I saw a big improvement on my way of playing! Hopefully next week I'll have mastered that section and will post a video.

[candlelightpiano]

That's great, Austin!  I'm so happy for you!  Look forward to your video! 

[twirler]

Well choo, it sounds like the piano has muted? I can't hear clearly enough to make any judgement. Also there are times that I can't hear the trills at all.

[candlelightpiano]

Twirler, I just listened to my video and the sound was fine.  I could hear all the trills.  In bar 43 and 47, I didn't do any trills.  I just played the notes.  I was doing a series of variations, with no trills, then mordents, then trills.  Definitely the piano has not gone mute.  Can you please try again?  Do you have your volume turned up?  Watch Paul Barton's video and see if you hear the sound? Thanks.

[zoecalgary]

Hi Choo. I just watched your latest video. This is coming along really nicely. I was sad when it ended :-)

Wow I think you're going to be needing a new project soon this and Consolation coming along very well. I can't comment on your polys because I wouldn't know if you were doing them right or not but overall it sounded really nice.

[candlelightpiano]

Thanks, Zoe, and it's good to see you here!  How are you? 

FI is still a mighty big challenge.  I finally got the whole piece (except for the middle section) at one tempo!  I had every kind of tempo imaginable so I decided to slow it all down in order to get it all in one tempo and the last page was really hard to do but I now have it at one slow tempo!!  So I can begin increasing my speed a little at a time.  When I get it to a respectable tempo (but not fast), I'll post a video of the whole piece.  It's coming along, as you say, but slowly. 

I just recorded Consolation and played by memory and I'm about to upload to YouTube now.  Do watch out for it tomorrow! 

[twirler]

Well maybe I am just not used to hear a baby grand. I do not mean muted in the sense of having a very soft sound, just the the tone is so deep. Or maybe its just my lousy speakers.