the most over played and overrated composer is...

[moi_not_toi]

what have you been smoking...

Obviously not enough to think that he's any better...

But really, I have yet to hear anything TRULY SPECTACULAR (that isn't overplayed, like the Waldstein, which is overplayed, and thus counts it out)by Beethoven.

Now, i'll give Bach his wonderfulness in fugues, but I draw the line there. There are probably about 3 preludes that I like, and ALL from the WTC.

Now, about Mozart. I heard a piano concerto by him that sucked booty. Really, I like him, but I loathe some of his music.

[thalberg]

yeaaah man im joking bach is so sh*t!!! how can anyone call that music!!?!?!

and late beethoven!???!! THATS SO sh*t ITS SO SLOW WHERES THE SPEED MAN WHERES THE SPEEEEEED

OMG TELL YOU WHATS MINT WICKED COOL CHOPIN ETUDE OP 10 / NO 4 ITS SO FASST MAN YEAH THATS WHAT YOU CALL REEEAL MUSIC.  none of that bach sh*t god bachs rubbish its so slow and boring HAHA FUGUES ANYONE COULD WRITE THOSE BUT NAAA CHOPIN AND LISZT THEYRE THE TRUE GODS OF MUSIC FAST FAST FAST YEAHHHHH

ALSO LISZT HUNGARIAN RHAPSODIES YEAH MAN MAN FAST FAST
ALL STUDIES YEAH YEAH  FAST FAST FAST FAST although some are fabulous music.
SONATA IN B MINOR YEAH MAN OCTAVE OCTAVE OCTAVE OCTAVE END!!!!!!! but also a very fine piece.

i wish you could appreciate real music for what it is.....

LOL!!!!!! You should be a comedian.

This whole thread is pretty funny actually.  It's true no one has given any arguments for WHY anything is good or bad.

I can give arguments.  I'm just too tired.

[sevencircles]

Beethoven.

Seriously, I don't see why he's so effin great anyway.

I agree about the Early Beethoven. The first true masterpiece he did was Pathetique I think. His Symphonies and Pianoconcertos may be a bit overrated too

The last String Quartets https://www.unheardbeethoven.org/midis/woo62gp1.mid and his unfinished piano trio in F-minor https://www.unheardbeethoven.org/search/search.pl?piece=biam637.mid are milestones in the music history without any doubt

[elevateme_returns]

I have laughs with my real life friends, I come to a piano forum to gain information and insight into piano playing and piano music.

ok, me too. heres your info for today : bach beethoven brahms and mozart are the 4 greatest composers ever.

[elevateme_returns]

Beethoven.

Seriously, I don't see why he's so effin great anyway.

are you ACTUALLY SHITTING ON MY HEAD.  have you any idea how genius he was?!?!?!?!

he wrote the last 5 sonatas and the last symphony (or last two) when he was COMPLETELY STONE DEAF.

i really really do feel sorry for you man. youre missing out

[alwaystheangel]

thal has a point, I mean who on earth is hunten?  its interesting to see how composers popular in their day don't seem to last post-mordem whearas the ones that were under appreciated in life are loved and worshipped in death. 

[quasimodo]

i just KNOW FOR A FACT THAT its not on the same musical level as bach brahms beethoven or mozart.

If you know it "for a fact" it shouldn't be difficult for you to tell us on which objective criteria you state it. Please try...

[nicco]

If you know it "for a fact" it shouldn't be difficult for you to tell us on which objective criteria you state it. Please try...

Dont bother. I tried asking for any argument that proves this "fact" of his, but no matter how certain he seems to be he has no way of explaining why.

[franzliszt2]

I agree about the Early Beethoven. The first true masterpiece he did was Pathetique I think. His Symphonies and Pianoconcertos may be a bit overrated too

The last String Quartets https://www.unheardbeethoven.org/midis/woo62gp1.mid and his unfinished piano trio in F-minor https://www.unheardbeethoven.org/search/search.pl?piece=biam637.mid are milestones in the music history without any doubt

COME ON!!!!!!!! PATHETIQUE HIS FIRST MASTERPIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  SYMPHONIES AND PIANO CONCERTOS OVERATED!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW CAN ANYONE SAY THAT? ARE YOU DEAF? Have you heard his 3rd symphony? 4th? 5th?( stupid question but I wouldn't be suprised if some people here hadn't) th? 7th? 8th? 9th?

[franzliszt2]

Kid, you need to log off the internet and get a life.  Also a word of advice, the 'play dumb and act sarcastic' trick doesn't work on the internet, it just makes you look like a stupid immature shut in with too many hours logged online.

yeh go listen to his scarbo and then come back with the argument.

[franzliszt2]

There's a lot of speed in late Beethoven.

And while you're at it, not really much of it in late Liszt.

And I disagree about the last Mozart Symphonies.  Besides, we're discussing keyboard compositions.  No Mozart keyboard work is greater than the Liszt Sonata.

Dan

I totally disagree. Most mozart is better than Liszt sonata. Last mozart symphies are just mindblowing. Look at the fugue in the Jupiter symphony!!! Genius

[mephisto]

COME ON!!!!!!!! PATHETIQUE HIS FIRST MASTERPIECE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  SYMPHONIES AND PIANO CONCERTOS OVERATED!!!!!!!!!!!! HOW CAN ANYONE SAY THAT? ARE YOU DEAF? Have you heard his 3rd symphony? 4th? 5th?( stupid question but I wouldn't be suprised if some people here hadn't) th? 7th? 8th? 9th?

Errr, the Patetique was written before the 3rd Symphonie...

[franzliszt2]

WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY IT WASN'T?

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SUPPOSE I ALSO MEANT THAT ALL 5 PIANO CONCERTO'S WERE AS WELL?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[elevateme_returns]

I totally disagree. Most mozart is better than Liszt sonata. Last mozart symphies are just mindblowing. Look at the fugue in the Jupiter symphony!!! Genius

exactly. its like 5 or 6 parts or something that round off to a massive finish. mozart was so so young when he wrote this as well, thats why hes the real biggest prodigy. and while the liszt sonata is much more pianistic than any of mozart's keyboard works, mozart was the better musician because of his output of higher musical quality

[mephisto]

WHEN THE HELL DID I SAY IT WASN'T?

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I SUPPOSE I ALSO MEANT THAT ALL 5 PIANO CONCERTO'S WERE AS WELL?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First of all, please for the lvoe of God, stop typing post like that.

Your original post wich you also posted in that manner confused me. When you wrote that you found it hard to belive that the Patetique was his first real masterpiece, and started to list lots of other pieces I assumed that you ment that you thought they were masterpieces written before the Opus.13 Sonata.

Try to write more understandable post.

[franzliszt2]

Please for the love of God stop inventing things!! How could you misundertsand it? Seems pretty simple to me. He said that the piano concerto's and symphonies were poverated thats what I was getting at AFTER my comment on pathetique.

[elevateme_returns]

you see, what you should have said just then franz was "apology accepted" oh, wait there wasnt one

[mephisto]

Please for the love of God stop inventing things!! How could you misundertsand it? Seems pretty simple to me. He said that the piano concerto's and symphonies were poverated thats what I was getting at AFTER my comment on pathetique.

I already said that I missunderstood what you wrote, by saying that I admit that I was wrong. Ok?

And stop using more than one question - or exlamation marks at a time.

[minor9th]

Schubert--he just bores the crap out of me.

[elevateme_returns]

And stop using more than one question - or exlamation marks at a time.

to be fair, that should definitely be allowed!!!!!!!

shouldnt it?

[tompilk]

Schubert--he just bores the crap out of me.

he used to for me. now i enjoy his sonatas. Especially 960, 850 (probably my favourite), 784, and 959. His wanderer fantasie isnt bad either...
Tom

[mephisto]

to be fair, that should definitely be allowed!!!!!!!

shouldnt it?

No.

[elevateme_returns]

i dont really understand what the problem is with them!!!!!!!!

could you explain ? ? ? ?? ? ?

[elevateme_returns]

Schubert--he just bores the crap out of me.

impromptus & moments musicaux are nice.

but the string quintet has to be the best thing he wrote... masterpiece

[gruffalo]

... stravinsky, ravel etc theyve all written fabulous music and its really really good. but i KNOW FOR A FACT THAT its not genius like those 4 giants ....

How can Stravinsky's rite of spring not be a work of genius? Have you heard Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe?

[mephisto]

i dont really understand what the problem is with them!!!!!!!!

could you explain ? ? ? ?? ? ?

It looks childiss, and anyone who writes like that loses any dignity. Pluss it is not allowed.

[tompilk]

impromptus & moments musicaux are nice.

but the string quintet has to be the best thing he wrote... masterpiece

surely you cant beat the brahms g minor quartet?
Tom

[elevateme_returns]

surely you cant. but i was talking about schubert!! but i agree. brahms is better

[elevateme_returns]

How can Stravinsky's rite of spring not be a work of genius? Have you heard Ravel's Daphnis et Chloe?

sorry, i didnt make it clear. maybe it is genius (rite of spring) actually it probably is, perhaps because nothing had ever been done like it at the time. but not genius like the 4 giants of music i mentioned. genius, but at a lower level

[elevateme_returns]

Kid, you need to log off the internet and get a life.  Also a word of advice, the 'play dumb and act sarcastic' trick doesn't work on the internet, it just makes you look like a stupid immature shut in with too many hours logged online.

there you go, "kid" https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,24966.0.html

do you think youre cool calling me "kid" ? i reckon you look kind of stupid without intending to.

how does a sarcastic comment make you look like you spend too many hours on the internet ? i dont spend that much time. too much revision to do. and fests at friends houses. i could have just come on for 5 minutes, made a sarcastic comment and logged off.

[imbetter]

yeaaah man im joking bach is so sh*t!!! how can anyone call that music!!?!?!

and late beethoven!???!! THATS SO sh*t ITS SO SLOW WHERES THE SPEED MAN WHERES a



OMG TELL YOU WHATS MINT WICKED COOL CHOPIN ETUDE OP 10 / NO 4 ITS SO FASST MAN YEAH THATS WHAT YOU CALL REEEAL MUSIC.  none of that bach sh*t god bachs rubbish its so slow and boring HAHA FUGUES ANYONE COULD WRITE THOSE BUT NAAA CHOPIN AND LISZT THEYRE THE TRUE GODS OF MUSIC FAST FAST FAST YEAHHHHH

ALSO LISZT HUNGARIAN RHAPSODIES YEAH MAN MAN FAST FAST
ALL STUDIES YEAH YEAH  FAST FAST FAST FAST although some are fabulous music.
SONATA IN B MINOR YEAH MAN OCTAVE OCTAVE OCTAVE OCTAVE END!!!!!!! but also a very fine piece.

i wish you could appreciate real music for what it is.....

ROFTLMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if there was room id so save that into my sig

[pies]

overplayed: chopin or beethoven
overrated: no idea

[arbisley]

I'd sometimes like to know how old some of the users here are because the mental age of most of this thread doesn't seem to be much above 5

[elevateme_returns]

16. just done gcses

[gruffalo]

just done gcses

Post-exam stress 

[elevateme_returns]

omg tell me about it. lol my last exam is actually on thursday, but its the only one this week. so im just getting over them

[gruffalo]

let it all out.

[elevateme_returns]

omg on thursday i will lol

[marco_from_brazil]

ok, me too. heres your info for today : bach beethoven brahms and mozart are the 4 greatest composers ever.

oh please elevateme, don't leave Chopin out. =)

[ihatepop]

Mozart and Liszt.

ihatepop

[elevateme_returns]

oh please elevateme, don't leave Chopin out. =)

HAHAHAHAHA good one, good one.

[avetma]

I wish I was qualifyed to tell which composers are the best ever

[nicco]

I wish I was qualifyed to tell which composers are the best ever

Nobody is, even how easy they think scarbo is.

[elevateme_returns]

funny. nice one nicco, nice one.

[moi_not_toi]

Ok, I played some Beethoven today, and I gotta admit, the guy had talent, he was very good at what he did, but unfortunately, i CANT SAY THE SAME FOR MOZART!

Chopin, on the other hand, is God. He's beautiful, he's slow and fast in nearly equal amounts (although slow probably wins out) and is sentimental to the point of melodrama. What more could a passionate pianist want?

Bach was good for technique, but like Czerny, I believe he should stay at the bench and not be brought out into the public (except for longer works like chorales and toccattas &c.)

back to beethoven: I agree that his later works are masterpieces (probably because he didn't have his sense of hearing to screw them up like he did his earlier works) and his symphonies, although wonderful, are played SO much that it sucks ALL the delectible taste of the works out.
his concertos are great, hands down.

AND HOW CAN ANYONE HATE ON LISZT? Or nearly anyone else of the romantic period, for that matter? ESPECIALLY Schubert. His sonatas are... well... beyond words.

General rule of thumb: If you walk into a high school music class and ask them if they know the guy and they say yes, then they're over played.
If you can get a ringtone of the song: It's overplayed (with exception of Mussorgsky's ballet of the unhatched chicks)

AND DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THE PATHETIQUE! I HATE IT, I HATE IT, I HATE IT!
and that goes for the moonlight, fur elise, and Chopin's minute waltz.

[elevateme_returns]

no, youre absolutely right, mozart clearly wasnt talented at all.

i mean, at what age did he write his first piece ? wasnt it like, 3 or 4 or something?

ha. what an amateur. 

no, with all due respect, have you heard the last symphonies?

Chopin, on the other hand, is God.

look, ok, i realise my errors everyone. because you have such strong opinions about who is the best and who is not, i think i should in future just keep my own ideas to myself. after all, who am i to say who is better than who. i blame it entirely on exam stress.

i hope you will all accept my most humble apologies.

[moi_not_toi]

No, you completely take it wrong.
Mozart's piano music SUCKS! Like his sonatas, there's 1 that's acceptable, and that's his first.

No, we don't accept your apology: TAKE IT BACK! Never apologise for opinion, we all get stressed we all spell words wrong. Not our fault, people should just learn to deal with it.

[rallestar]

No, you completely take it wrong.
Mozart's piano music SUCKS! Like his sonatas, there's 1 that's acceptable, and that's his first.

No, we don't accept your apology: TAKE IT BACK! Never apologise for opinion, we all get stressed we all spell words wrong. Not our fault, people should just learn to deal with it.

First of all, saying Mozart's piano music sucks is saying you suck. Consider the fact that you're just too stupid to get it?

And if it's not your fault that you can't spell, then tell me, whose fault is it?

[elevateme_returns]

Like his sonatas, there's 1 that's acceptable, and that's his first.

i dont really understand what you mean by acceptable

[alwaystheangel]

I'm sorry, but there is nothing in the WORLD that puts me in a better mood than playing a Mozart Sonata, they are deceptively difficult, they are bright, light and spritely.  I mean, if only good composers are brooding and moody like Brahms or Beethoven, and Chopin, I think we have a problem.  I think most don't like Mozart because he actually has a sense of humor, and is a little goofy.  (I am speaking in terms of his Sonatas)