Religion

[thalbergmad]

because our stars and planets have stayed constant for as long as we've been here.  they are not farther apart.  our calendar and time would have been affected.

If you believe that we have been here for only 6,000 years, i guess it may look that way, but there is no such thing as "constant".

Hubbles law does not apply to within our own galaxy and in fact some stars are moving towards us. It is only because they are so far away that the movement is only noticable over thousands and millions of years.

When the Egyptians looked upon the stars 5000 years it was slightly different than that we see now and not just because of the procession of the equinoxis.

Your irrelevant Biblical nonsense has no place in discussions about astronomy.

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

but, hubble was thinking linearly.  no cosmologists think that way anymore.

No one would still use it as evidence should it have been refuted

It's still right. 

another thing is that hubble even reflected on his own work with skepticism.  he said that the only general criterion of great distances is the apparent faintness which REQUIRES one determine a nebulae to be stationary or receeding.  how do you determine that?  that determines the answer!  and, if it is mostly by visual aid that we determine this information - of space between nebulae as 'measured' - does that in any way determine a specific size of the universe?

We now have redshift evidence supporting his claim.

  where does he get this measurement from ?

You really want to know? Well here you go:

'Derivation of the Hubble parameter

Start with the Friedman equation:

    H^2 \equiv \left(\frac{\dot{a}}{a}\right)^2 = \frac{8 \pi G \rho}{3} - \frac{kc^2}{a^2}+ \Lambda

where H is the Hubble parameter, a is the scale factor, G is the gravitational constant, k is the geometry of the universe and equal to -1,0 or 1, and Λ is the cosmological constant.

[edit] Matter dominated universe (with a cosmological constant)

If the universe is matter dominated then the energy density of the universe ρ can just be taken to include matter so:

    \rho = \rho_m (a)= \rho_{m0}a^{-3}\frac{1}{1}

where ρm is the density of matter today. We know for non-relativistic particles their energy density decreases proportional to the volume of the universe so the equation above must be true. We can also define (see Friedmann equations page for an explanation of the density parameter Ωm):

    \rho_c = \frac{3 H^2}{8 \pi G}

    \Omega_m \equiv \frac{\rho_{m0}}{\rho_c} = \frac{8 \pi G}{3 H_0^2}\rho_{m0}

so ρ = ρcΩma − 3. Also by definition

    \Omega_k \equiv \frac{kc^2}{(a_0H_0)^2}

and

    \Omega_{\Lambda} \equiv \frac{\Lambda H_0^{-2}}{3}

where the subscript zero refers to the values today, and a0 = 1. Substituting all this in into the Friedman equation at the start of this section and replacing a with a = 1 / (1 + z) gives:

    H^2(z)= H_0^2 \left( \Omega_M (1+z)^{3} + \Omega_k (1+z)^{2} + \Omega_{\Lambda} \right)

Matter and dark energy dominated universe

If the universe is both matter dominated and dark energy dominated then the above equation for the Hubble parameter will also be a function of the equation of state of dark energy. So now:

    \rho = \rho_m (a)+\rho_{de}(a)\frac{1}{1}

where ρde is the energy density of the dark energy. By definition an equation of state in cosmology is P = wρ, and if we substitute this into the fluid equation, which describes how the density of the universe evolves with time:

    \dot{\rho}+3\frac{\dot{a}}{a}\left(\rho+P\right)=0

    \frac{d\rho}{dt}=-3\frac{da}{dt}\frac{1}{a}\left(\rho+w\rho\right)

    \frac{d\rho}{\rho}=-3\frac{da}{a}\left(1+w\right)

If w is constant

    \ln{\rho}=-3\left(1+w\right)\ln{a}

    \rho=a^{-3\left(1+w\right)}e^{constant}

Therefore for dark energy with a constant equation of state w, \rho_{de}(a)= \rho_{de0}a^{-3\left(1+w\right)}. If we substitute this into the Friedman equation in a similar way as before, but this time set k = 0 which is assuming we live in a flat universe,

    H^2(z)= H_0^2 \left( \Omega_M (1+z)^{3} + \Omega_{de}(1+z)^{-3\left(1+w \right)} \right)

If dark energy does not have a constant equation of state w then:

    \rho_{de}(a)= \rho_{de0}e^{-3\int\frac{da}{a}\left(1+w(a)\right)}.

and to solve this we must parameterise w(a), for example if w(a) = w0 + wa(1 − a), giving:


    H^2(z)= H_0^2 \left( \Omega_M a^{-3} + \Omega_{de}a^{-3\left(1+w_0 +w_a \right)}e^{-3w_a(1-a)} \right)

Proof for it.'

There you go. Good enough? 

NB: Not my proof!! 

[wotgoplunk]

And I refuse to simplify that, simply because it will be a waste of my time and effort.

[pianistimo]

this is bunk.

[jlh]

And I refuse to simplify that, simply because it will be a waste of my time and effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble's_law#Derivation_of_the_Hubble_parameter

There ya go (not simplified, but easier to read)!

[wotgoplunk]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble's_law#Derivation_of_the_Hubble_parameter

There ya go (not simplified, but easier to read)!

That's better

Lol, wikipedia has the same format as the site I found it on!

But who took from who(m)? 

(Well it's likely the site I got mine off copied blatantly from wikipedia, who I then copied blatantly off!!)

[wotgoplunk]

this is bunk.

Ask a physicist to explain it. My one did.

I still hardly get it though

[ahinton]

this is bunk.

Can you prove that? And will you? Without recourse to the Bible (unless there is a direct connection)...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

who has discovered the parameters of the universe?  how can one do this merely by using eye guesstimations of distances of nebulae.  tell me i'm simple - but is this really believable?  i don't care if there are pages of formulas.  i want a scientist to tell me they've got absolutes in their hands about the universe.  it's not possible with only eye-perception of distances of red-shifts (supposedly moving away) and blue-shifts.  also, it is now thought that red-shift is actually the perception of velocity CHANGES.  not a constant velocity.  what does that do to the figures.

in any case - this is all above my head.  i prefer to say that God created it - and until we have peace on the earth we should not be so vain as to say we know everything about the size of the universe.  the bible is plain - it's not more than 6000 years of age in it's present state.  and, things are not always as they seem. rocks have cycles.  the milky way was also much smaller than hubbles constant made it out to be.

[ramithediv]

who has discovered the parameters of the universe?  how can one do this merely by using eye guesstimations of distances of nebulae.  tell me i'm simple - but is this really believable?  i don't care if there are pages of formulas.  i want a scientist to tell me they've got absolutes in their hands about the universe.  it's not possible with only eye-perception of distances of red-shifts (supposedly moving away) and blue-shifts.  also, it is now thought that red-shift is actually the perception of velocity CHANGES.  not a constant velocity.  what does that do to the figures.

in any case - this is all above my head.  i prefer to say that God created it - and until we have peace on the earth we should not be so vain as to say we know everything about the size of the universe.  the bible is plain - it's not more than 6000 years of age in it's present state.  and, things are not always as they seem. rocks have cycles.  the milky way was also much smaller than hubbles constant made it out to be.

Yes, if you don't understand it, blame GOD.

That's what people have been doing for thousands of years. Why stop now? Now that we are actually begining to understand a little.

[pianistimo]

i have never said that i don't respect science.  i don't respect those who make absolutes out of guesstimates.

what do you believe.  you so easily berate and make fun of me - but you do not say what you stand for at all.  what do you say?  you say nothing.  how can we discuss?

[ramithediv]

i have never said that i don't respect science.  i don't respect those who make absolutes out of guesstimates.

Where as you make absolutes out of the solid hard evidence you read in the bible, right.

[pianistimo]

the bible is the document that guarantees israel's right to exist - and you don't believe it?  strange.  JACOB WAS ISRAEL.  that's where the name came from.

[ramithediv]

the bible is the document that guarantees israel's right to exist - and you don't believe it?  strange.  JACOB WAS ISRAEL.  that's where the name came from.

I have never made my religious leanings known to you.

Are you judging me, or your preconceived view of me?

[pianistimo]

that was a rhetorical question because you mentioned that americans were 'humorless.'  what does this mean?  that we are serious about terror?  do you not care that israel is terrorized.  that the usa is terrorized.  do you not care that the UN will not lift a finger for israel and will probably divide it up into segements according to the people who want the land?  the united states has recognized the divine (manifest destiny) that i speak of - and that is why they do not counter israel's right to exist - and also seek for peace with palestinians to bring a peace between those countries and nobody else.  when you get 100 people involved in a dispute - it gets uglier. 

the UN is becoming involved.  do you think that it should?  especially since they let ahmadnijad speak to them?  i've asked this three or four times.  you do not answer.

[ramithediv]

you mentioned that americans were 'humorless.'  what does this mean? 

In another thread I said something about the American sense of humour, or lack of it.

What I meant was that americans do not understand humour unless it gets up and slaps them in the face.

[pianistimo]

you do not say what 'slapping' americans in the face is supposed to do.  induce humor.  terrorism is making us very serious about determining who is friend and who is foe.  doesn't it do that in israel, too?  don't you care?

[ramithediv]

you do not say what 'slapping' americans in the face is supposed to do.  induce humor.  terrorism is making us very serious about determining who is friend and who is foe.  doesn't it do that in israel, too?  don't you care?

Does the word "Humour" mean something else in america?

I'm sure Manifest Destiny means that I don't need to care, as the strongest nation will claim this in order to erase the rest.

Perhaps I should have said americans are brainless.

[prometheus]

Hahaha, Pianistimo is such a fool. Get rid of your delusion and then go back to school. Religion is wasting away the limited time you are allowed to exist.

[pianistimo]

prometheus,  i do not believe truth is always divulged in full at any university of so-called higher learning.  even religious schools!  does that surprise you.

the vatican already knows about the supposed bones of st. peter.  that they were excavated and found to be the remains of three people and not just one.  but, the vatican gets it's way when it  says what bones are whose.
https://www.hissheep.org/catholic/the_bones_of_peter.html

you don't have to attend school forever, prometheus.  all you have to do is understand how to research.  then, you're on your own.  people who think money is the key to education have it backwards.  your brain can work - you just need to know the methods.  libraries are a great resource.  as well as bookstores.  after all - when you take a class - you are answering questions from someone who poses the right ones.

ok.  as i see it - with recent dna discoveries - the catholic church should still know where the fragments are to the THREE people that were discovered in this wall  under the basilica.  the wall that had the supposed christian scratchingetching on it.  if it is not peter (which i don't think peter would be buried in a roman burial place - but a jewish one) - it might possibly be the old 'simon magus peter' - his wife and a third person.  perhaps his entire family.  nero was crazy, you know. 

peter's ossuary and those of others in the bible at his time - were found in jerusalem!  even the inscription 'simon bar jonah'  was found - which identifies the exact peter we are discussing.  now, how can peter be in two places?  that is for another story - but there are sites on the internet that discuss how - even in the bible - simon magus has impressed people with his sorceries.  nero must have been facinated by this and allowed the duel between peter and simon peter magus.  simon ended up falling headlong after a flying attempt and died three days later.

the idea of the 'universal' church came directly from simon magus.  how do i know this?  research.  for one thing - simon magus was familiar with pagan practices.  after all - he was a magician. his name is also association with 'simony.'  that means attempting to 'pay for the Holy Spirit' was an act that he got into trouble for - and then turned around and made a precept of his own church!  yes.  to have penance and involvement with patars.  or peters - just like the churches of egypt.  the ones that are eunuchs.  not married.  fully devoted to the spirit life of the temple (or church).  all this comes directly from EGYPT.

now - i suppose this isn't enough scholarship for you - but to divide the word of truth means to read the bible AND history.  that is my religious research.

[pianistimo]

oh - and in the bible there is no command for anyone to be unmarried.  in fact, it is suggested that men marry.  it is not a requirement for service.  also, popes didn't even exist in the 'name' papa or pope until constantine.  that is known from reading religious history, too.

[thalbergmad]

How did we get from Hubbles Law, Jacob & Israel, The UN, terrorism, The bones of St Peter, Vatican and Constantine in less than 1 day.

Welcome to Pianistino world. Run out of argument and then change the subject.

In order to keep up the battle against ignorance, i think we need to operate a system of shift work to lessen the burden on some of us.

I will take the 8pm to 10pm GMT shift.

Anyone game for the 2 hours folllowing?

Thal

[pianistimo]

how did gaming get into this?  btw, i don't even know how to game.  i'd have to watch and learn. 

oh, and i forgot about the supposed third pope of the liber pontificalis.  anacletes.  it is said that the name anacletes was typically spelled 'anancletes' or 'servant.'  now, if he was also jewish - it would explain why they disappeared all around generally the same time (within 10-20 years of each other or less).  the apostle john was STILL around in AD 100 and he said NOTHING about a pope anacletes.  (they were called bishops - and they moved around and created many churches or parishes and didn't stay in one spot).  if there was anyone he knew -it would be polycarp or before that timothy who worked with paul  -or someone he would mention in his last books that he wrote while alive.

the catholic church assumes people don't READ THE BIBLE.  that is why they get away with their wierd church histories.  the only REAL first bishop they had was trained by simon peter magus and was CLEMENT of rome or Clement I.  he wasn't #1 jewish   he didn't know any christians left (because they fled persecution - joseph of aramathia taking linus and claudia to britain.  that's why they couldn't find exact birth or death - and call them all martyrs. 

i may not be the best scholar - but the way i find out things is to have someone say 'no no - that's all wrong.  here's a source that proves this other way is correct.'  the catholic church can't do that because a lot of people - even their own catholic scholars can't seem to work out the first three popes (peter, linus, and anacletes) in any sort of comparison order that matches.  the only one that fits the timeline after peter is clement I.  linus goes and disappears.  nobody finds him.

[thalbergmad]

Learning is beyond you as your mind is so infested with religous rubbish, your already feeble mind is totally blocked to new ideas.

If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person on Earth.

Thal

[mike_lang]

if it is not peter (which i don't think peter would be buried in a roman burial place - but a jewish one) - it might possibly be the old 'simon magus peter' - his wife and a third person.  perhaps his entire family.

It must be a conspiracy.

Best,
ML

[pianistimo]

it is, ML.  in the middle of the tiber river, found on an island,  there was a fragment of marble with an inscription on it that bears the name of simon peter magus - 'simoni sanco deu fidio.'  interesting, huh! 
https://sword_of_the_spirit.tripod.com/magus.htm

[thalbergmad]

pianistimo  07:03:10 PM Posting in Religion.

CRAP ALERT

[thalbergmad]

it is, ML.  on the tiber river there is an inscription on a stone that bears the name of simon peter magus.  interesting, huh!

On a toilet wall in the Rochester public bogs there is an inscription that says the following:

Eat sh*t, a million flies can't be wrong.

Interesting, huh!

Thal

[thalbergmad]

pianistimo  07:13:24 PM Posting in Religion.

Oh dear

[pianochick93]

how did gaming get into this?  btw, i don't even know how to game.  i'd have to watch and learn. 

I believe that you misunderstood the meanng of "game"
I would think that by "game" Thal meant "is anyone brave enough to take the 2 hours after him  arguing with you."

[m]

I believe that you misunderstood the meanng of "game"
I would think that by "game" Thal meant "is anyone brave enough to take the 2 hours after him  arguing with you."

Thal arguing with her??? 

Sorry, only such idiots like me could do that.

[pianochick93]

Weel I'm starting to get into the spirit of it, but I can't do shifts, I'll just pop in the occasional strongly opinionated post here and there.

[ramithediv]

I enjoy this very much. great joy

[ramseytheii]

oh - and in the bible there is no command for anyone to be unmarried.  in fact, it is suggested that men marry. 

Whoa - I didn't know that.  Who here besides pianitisimo knew gay marriage was sanctioned in the Bible?

Walter Ramsey

[ahinton]

Whoa - I didn't know that.  Who here besides pianitisimo knew gay marriage was sanctioned in the Bible?

Walter Ramsey

Well, not me, that's for sure - but then I do not claim to know the Bible as well as Sister Susan does; she also seems to know quite a lot about marriage, judging from the sheer frequency of her references to her marital status here...

And DO please stop calling her "pianitisimo"! - whatever else Susan does, she doesn't call you "Waiter"...

Best,

Alistair

[pianistimo]

no no - i wasn't implying it was a christian idea.  and, btw, i was joking with thal about the gaming.  sometimes i'm so serious nobody knows when i'm joking.  but, to me - religion is a serious matter.  as i was saying before - it's a freedom.  if you don't have freedom of religion - where are you going to get freedom for anything.  and yet - we have laws within freedom.  today - everyone just goes about assuming there is no 'natural law.'  but, i have become friends with the idea that God's law IS natural law.  otherwise - the bible wouldn't mention that people without the gospel still have a conscience.  where does this conscience come from?  if we were only evolved from monkeys - why should we feel guilty if we kill someone?  or steal.  or murder.  the ten commandments are the basic framework for living civilly with each other.  and surprisingly, no mention in the ten commandments are even OF homosexuality.  now - that is not saying that it is also not a law, though.  because there is a blessing and curse for all of the statutes in the bible, too.  but, they are also natural laws.  to make our lives clean as a priest would be clean for service in the church or synagogue.  what makes a man clean?  God.  our sins (whatever they are) make us unfit for service or worship of God.  if you don't care about serving as a priest or soon-to-be (after death) born into spirit child of God - then you don't really care if you are blessed or cursed in this life and the next.

in the bible - there is some verse that says that sin reaps it's own consequence in our bodies!  whether adultery, fornication, lewdness, homosexuality, immorality, covetousness, idolatry, reviling, drunkenness, swindling/gambling carelessly - these are called 'worldly' things.  if you don't care what happens to you - you do them.  but, some of these people (actually most all of us at one point or another) start realizing the 'natural law' when they do it.  it's just amazing - really - because it proves God.  He exists and He cares what we do because he never blesses it.  people can bless it - but it doesn't mean they will reap blessings in their lives.  so it's a conundrum.  do you want real joy and happiness in your life - or just so-so living.

now, if you look at God's law like a prison sentence - of course, you won't enjoy it.  but, if you look at it as an opportunity to see if God is true.  then you should EXPECT blessings if you do what the bible says.  just experiment.  if you've done it one way before -try another way.  see if God is true to His word.  also, He says to those who ARE christian that we should be 'competent' to judge in the smallest court of law!  that means to have an understanding that law is the basis of civilization and keeps it from chaos.  also, it actually encourages freedom.  freedom within law.  if everyone was free to kill - we would all rely soley on our conscience which might be lacking with those who cannot control anger or violent outbursts - but later are sorry.  the law keeps them from killing by recognizing that there is some kind of opposing force to that action.

I cor 6:1 'does any one of you, when he has a case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous, and not before the saints?  in other words, if you are a christian - shouldn't you be able to work out small differences with other people (christian or non-christian).  so we're told 'do you not know that THE SAINTS WILL JUDGE THE WORLD?  and if the world is judged by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts?

Jesus Christ said he was coming to his kingdom and that the saints would rule with him.  king david at his right hand.  now, if the saints are to rule the world - and judge it - with what law will they use?  their conscience.  YES.  to determine mercy and judgement is for those who have become used to dividing rightly.  who can give you that?  God.  through the Holy Spirit.  it can divide the hearts of people to see what their intentions are.  if someone accidentally does something - or is not intending - but is cooerced or is not knowledgeable - then the best action is to teach the law of whatever land you are in so the person knows about it.  that is what the bible is for if you want to know what God thinks. 

so - (yes -- i suppose this is longwinded) - in the end, ramseytheii - i think homosexuals, adulterers, etc - will be judged by mercy if they also show mercy.  and that loving one's neighbor (as many do) outshines any sort of militaristic - let's kill everyone who did this.  i don't think God's nature is to kill his own offspring.  in fact, that is what Jesus died for!  to save us from our sins.  but, He says - don't keep on sinning if you understand it to be a sin.  so - that's why i don't think that men should marry men.  it's just not a 'natural' law.  in fact, it originated with Ham who did something like that to his father Noah.  wierd, i know - but when his father was drunk (with three sons - he should have had help at that point and not been laughed at by Ham as Noah was inside his own tent) went into his tent and did something that his father noticed later.  now, if God was pleased with this little interlude between them - he wouldn't have allowed noah to tell his son 'cursed be canaan...'  now some say - all he did was look at his father naked.  but, gen. 9:24 says 'when noah awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done TO him.'  unless there is some other interpretation here - he did something to him. 

this tells me that sexuality is a matter of self-control.  a person might be inclined one way or the other way - or both ways - but if God doesn't like one way - then we should say 'ok, God.  your way is best.  i don't want to be cursed.'

[pianistimo]

before noah and ham - there was actually sodom and gommorrah.  the town was destroyed for being evil.  the 'evil' was described by the angels who came into the town and were summoned to the door of lot by a group of men who wanted sex from them.  another corruption after this that caused God to send a flood was that 'the earth was filled with violence.'  so people don't even ask for sex - but take it from others.  and, kill others. (one perversion leads to another for people who cannot control their impulses). it is said that our days will be like the days of noah -everyone deciding for themselves what is good.  if you look around - you cannot say 'this is good.'  people are hurting, sufferring, dying.

God originally created the world good - and blessed it.  if He had created two men and blessed them - we would know - 'hey, God says it's alright!'  perhaps - to be in the perfect image of God - it takes both the masculine and feminine perspective?

[ramithediv]

She's off on a gallop already. 

[thalbergmad]

I cor 6:4 Shut up you stupid woman.

Pianistimo - I don't think anybody is reading your vile rants anymore. It is just pages and pages of bullcrap.

You remind me of a mental retard that used to stand on a box in the Town Centre where i live and rant about God for hours. People just stood and laughed at him and i stand and laugh at you now.

My mother will be angry as she has always told me not to laugh at unfortunates, but when you are in an asylum giving speaches to yourself, i promise i will come visit.

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

Pianistimo, what if 90% of people were gay, and you were straight.

How would you like it if someone forced you into being gay, based on a book?

[thalbergmad]

Superb question.

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

Superb question.

Thal

Hopefully she doesn't dodge it.

[pianistimo]

noone is forcing anyone to do anything.  you don't even have to read my messages.   btw, freedom is not becoming 'gay.'  freedom is learning what law is about.  that is what judges know already.  to be truly free - means to have respect for others rights.

in america - these rights are not JUST TO BE GAY.  they ARE RELIGIOUS ALSO!  do you get it?  if you can be gay you can also be religious.  so stop bashing religion!  don't you see - ahmadinejad bashed it openly and mentioned killing homosexuals was normal in his country?

Jesus Christ is merciful.  whether one is an adulterer, a homosexual, a murderer, whatever - they are a sinner.  it doesn't put them in ANY OTHER CATEGORY.  stop thinking you are a special sinner.  you are not.  you are just a sinner like any other.  do you want FAVOR from God because of sin?  He's not going to give it to you if you keep on sinning.

do you want to be in the kingdom of the Almighty God?  then take a pointer.  you have  a penis for a reason.  it wasn't meant to get dirty.  vaginas are not dirty.  did you know this was a problem for the dictator hitler.  he turned right thinking and behavior around and made women out to be dirty and evil.  but, he himself PREFERRED to think of women that way.  gayness - proscribes loving a man like a woman.  what does this do for masculinity.  it doesn't make a homosexual in the image of GOD anymore.  a man and woman were pronounced 'good' in the garden of eden.  not a man and a man.  guess what that makes?  Satan worship.  yes.  i said it.  a man and a man = worshipping ANOTHER GOD.  you are now worshipping sensuality and lust - which satan has perverted.

the world was flooded for this.  did you know that?  for evil behavior that was refused to be repented of.

so - there you have it!  if other churches do not tell you - a simple person on piano forum has!

[ramseytheii]

noone is forcing anyone to do anything.  you don't even have to read my messages.   btw, freedom is not becoming 'gay.'  freedom is learning what law is about.  that is what judges know already.  to be truly free - means to have respect for others rights.

in america - these rights are not JUST TO BE GAY.  they ARE RELIGIOUS ALSO!  do you get it?  if you can be gay you can also be religious.  so stop bashing religion!  don't you see - ahmadinejad bashed it openly and mentioned killing homosexuals was normal in his country?

Jesus Christ is merciful.  whether one is an adulterer, a homosexual, a murderer, whatever - they are a sinner.  it doesn't put them in ANY OTHER CATEGORY.  stop thinking you are a special sinner.  you are not.  you are just a sinner like any other.  do you want FAVOR from God because of sin?  He's not going to give it to you if you keep on sinning.

do you want to be in the kingdom of the Almighty God?  then take a pointer.  you have  a penis for a reason.  it wasn't meant to get dirty.  vaginas are not dirty.  did you know this was a problem for the dictator hitler.  he turned right thinking and behavior around and made women out to be dirty and evil.  but, he himself PREFERRED to think of women that way.  gayness - proscribes loving a man like a woman.  what does this do for masculinity.  it doesn't make a homosexual in the image of GOD anymore.  a man and woman were pronounced 'good' in the garden of eden.  not a man and a man.  guess what that makes?  Satan worship.  yes.  i said it.  a man and a man = worshipping ANOTHER GOD.  you are now worshipping sensuality and lust - which satan has perverted.

the world was flooded for this.  did you know that?  for evil behavior that was refused to be repented of.

so - there you have it!  if other churches do not tell you - a simple person on piano forum has!

There is no doubt that all homosexualism is condemned in the Bible, but please be consistent.  The vagina is dirty in so many cases, as written in the Bible, that those deserve to be mentioned. 

Walter Ramsey

[wotgoplunk]

noone is forcing anyone to do anything.  you don't even have to read my messages.   btw, freedom is not becoming 'gay.'  freedom is learning what law is about.  that is what judges know already.  to be truly free - means to have respect for others rights.

Yes you are. You do this, or you go to hell. That's forcing. It's ridiculous. There is an incredible amount of societal pressure on gays to be straight. It makes no sense.

in america - these rights are not JUST TO BE GAY.  they ARE RELIGIOUS ALSO!  do you get it?  if you can be gay you can also be religious.  so stop bashing religion!  don't you see - ahmadinejad bashed it openly and mentioned killing homosexuals was normal in his country?

Yes, it's normal in some Muslim countries due to Shari'a law. It would be legal here if fundamentalists had their way. I don't care if they are religious or not. You're still condemning them.

Jesus Christ is merciful.  whether one is an adulterer, a homosexual, a murderer, whatever - they are a sinner.  it doesn't put them in ANY OTHER CATEGORY.  stop thinking you are a special sinner.  you are not.  you are just a sinner like any other.  do you want FAVOR from God because of sin?  He's not going to give it to you if you keep on sinning.

Jesus is NOT merciful. Nor is the Bible. He preaches tolerance and then you, believing you're following his word, go about spewing hatred toward people who may not be able to help a particular trait! Very hypocritical that, isn't it? And what's worse, you can't even see it. You're condemning a group of people purely based on a 2000 year old book, with no factual evidence behind it. It's utterly absurd. Do you eat shellfish? Wear gold jewellery? Wear cotton-blend? It forbids all of those in Leviticus, the same book you use to condemn homosexuality. You're picking and choosing. You're a hypocrite. And you're too blinded to realise.

do you want to be in the kingdom of the Almighty God?  then take a pointer.  you have  a penis for a reason.  it wasn't meant to get dirty.  vaginas are not dirty. 

Yes, the reason for that penis is reproduction. It also happens to double as something used for pleasure. First thing's first, I don't know quite where I gave the impression that I am gay. I assure you I'm not. But even if I were to be, heterosexual couples have anal and oral sex too. Vaginas can be dirty. Think what's possibly been up there.

did you know this was a problem for the dictator hitler.  he turned right thinking and behavior around and made women out to be dirty and evil.  but, he himself PREFERRED to think of women that way. 

Godwin's law. You lose.

gayness - proscribes loving a man like a woman.  what does this do for masculinity.  it doesn't make a homosexual in the image of GOD anymore.  a man and woman were pronounced 'good' in the garden of eden.  not a man and a man.  guess what that makes?  Satan worship.  yes.  i said it.  a man and a man = worshipping ANOTHER GOD.  you are now worshipping sensuality and lust - which satan has perverted.

One could say a guy who loves another is more masculine, as he chooses not to associate with females as much. Satan worship is NOT homosexuality. In fact, give me a Biblical reference to this "Satan". That's utterly ridiculous. No one worships evil unless they happen to be a psychopath. Satanism itself doesn't worship Satan. No one worships "Satan". Men and women have lust too. Ever only thought about your partner? And why is sensuality bad? I suppose the Bible is against that somehow, so your sex ends up duller than a wet piece of cardboard.

the world was flooded for this.  did you know that?  for evil behavior that was refused to be repented of.

The world was not flooded. Not enough usable wood could be found. The boat would be too small to fit 30 million species. Water levels would have to be 5 times currently. Water vapour concentration means Noah and the animals would die by breathing. Fish would die from pressure/salinity/temperature. How did animals get to what they are presently, either God created each and every animal on the planet, or they evolved. And finally, the animals would have killed each other.

/rant

[prongated]

Jesus is NOT merciful. Nor is the Bible. He preaches tolerance and then you, believing you're following his word, go about spewing hatred toward people who may not be able to help a particular trait! Very hypocritical that, isn't it? And what's worse, you can't even see it. You're condemning a group of people purely based on a 2000 year old book, with no factual evidence behind it. It's utterly absurd. Do you eat shellfish? Wear gold jewellery? Wear cotton-blend? It forbids all of those in Leviticus, the same book you use to condemn homosexuality. You're picking and choosing. You're a hypocrite. And you're too blinded to realise.

I think she's just confused and needs to re-evaluate what it is that she actually believes in. That, or she's unintelligent, which apparently is not the case...or she enjoys trolling...

[thalbergmad]

you have  a penis for a reason.  it wasn't meant to get dirty.  vaginas are not dirty. 

I hope Soliloquy sees this nonsense.

You really are vile.

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

I hope Soliloquy sees this nonsense.

Why specifically Soliloquy?

[thalbergmad]

1. His posts can be extremely cutting and of great amusement.

2. He is gay.

Thal

[wotgoplunk]

I see.

100 quid on Soliloquy