What's on your mind now?

[mrchops10]

Because, you see, for the christians (include Islam here) believe that god knows all – that is, the future already exists and is predictable (hence the prophecies telling us what will happen no matter what). And yet they insist god gives them free will, which really is only possible if the future does not exist and not even god knows how it will turn up. This is of course heretic, since god is a know-all kind of guy. He is also a mafia don (a wise guy?) who will make you a proposal you cannot refuse (“love me or go to hell”: it is your free will!), and a stalker (“Christianity is not a religion, it is a relationship and Jesus wants a relationship with you! He knows everything you do and all the hairs in your head, and your innermost thoughts, and if they are not about loving him, you go to hell” please, get me an injunction order against this weirdo who will not take no for an answer and is invading my privacy).

This sort of contradiction gets them all agitated and it is not long before the random bible quoting starts. It doesn’t really sort out anything, but makes them feel better.

And let me be clear here to the Christians (include Islam here): this is not a tirade against religion. It is a tirade against the way some people talk about religion and god. Listen to yourselves and consider if you are doing it a service or disservice.

Wow, I totally never contribute to the anything but piano section, especially not religious threads, but I couldn't pass this up, mostly because of my high respect for Bernhard. Do you really think such an obvious contradiction could go unnoticed for 2000+ years by legions of great Christian thinkers and philosophers (Aquinas, Augustine, Abelard, etc.)? There really is no contradiction at all, as a matter of fact this is an extremely modern concept. Einstein shows us that time is really merely another dimension, like height/width/depth, the only difference is that our consciousness moves along it. A short time later, Heisenberg and Bohr (I think) showed that the universe is not deterministic in nature, and later advances have continued to show that, especially at the quantum (microscopic) level, the universe is alarmingly random.

Back on earth, this translates to: just because my action always has and always will exist doesn't make it any less mine. The actions I performed in the past are obviously mine, and so will my future actions. God, in Christian theology, is a being who exists outside of time. This is all very difficult to describe, but philosophically sound. Furthermore, the division between heaven, hell, and purgatory (I'm a Catholic) is the most perfect example of free will. Hell is reserved for those who wish for an existence without God, whereas heaven is fit only for those who are ready to choose love and God at all times.

I wish I could respond to the last part of your quote, but I don't understand it at all. You mean, by pointing out certain "inherent" contradictions in Christianity, you wish only to tirade against the way people talk about it? This is extraordinarily illucid and sloppy, Bernhard, I don't think it's at all up to your usual standard.

[m1469]

..."Surely 100 000 lemings cannot be wrong, right?"   

[rc]

When I was younger and had been reading books by John Dunne and J.B. Priestley about time and dreaming, I kept an extensive dream diary to see if I dreamed of future events. I was amazed to find, like these writers,  that my dreams contained an enormous amount of seemingly precognitive detail. For some months I was carried away with all sorts of mystical, semi-religious notions. I now think what happens is akin to the Ramsey effect (Frank Ramsey, early twentieth century mathematician). It's much the same as the apparently astonishing coincidence when two people present at a gathering are found to have the same birthday.

Once data reaches a certain heft, patterns and correlations arise in the nature of things. Add to that the vigilantly active unconscious mind, the natural preference we have for data emotionally significant to ourselves, coupled with the natural desire to feel special, and it would be surprising if any of us had not experienced amazing precognition, at least once or twice.

I still pay attention to dreams, however. Under all their visionary, and thoroughly pleasurable experience there usually exists a quiet and useful suggestion from my unconscious.   

This is interesting.

I tend to remember my dreams vividly until about 10 minutes after waking up, would be interesting to try a dream journal. I think my unconscious likes to scare the hell out of me, more on the 'nightmare' than 'pleasant' end of the spectrum.

Last night I had a not-so-subtle dream. I was doing the dishes, then I cleaned every inch of the kitchen and was very pleased with my work... I wonder what it could mean.

Got any recommended dream reading Ted?

[trix]

.

[trix]

I will try to put your mind at rest (at least partially)

Ah my sage hero!: Now that you've knit my raveled sleeve of care glorious sleep shall once again be mine!...unless, of course, your answers haunt me now...

 

[trix]

.

[mrchops10]

..."Surely 100 000 lemings cannot be wrong, right?"   

St. Thomas Aquinas was NOT a LEMMING!!!

[stevie]

sex, nice melons, some nice cumquats.

[ted]

mrchops10:
On the contrary, Bernhard's reasoning seems very clear and correct to me.

rc:
It's a long time since I've bothered reading about it. Try J.B. Priestley's "Over the Long High Wall" and Dunne's "An Experiment with Time". They both emphasise the authors' personal types of mysticism, but they're nice sorts of mysticism.

 

[pianistimo]

people also are attracted to the occult for 'answers' regarding the future.  or, horiscopes, palm reading, ouiji boards, black magic, white magic (don't know the dif between the two), mysticism, etc.  these are all religious as well.

believing in evolution is as relgious as not believing in evolution.  believing in philosophy is a religion (if you want to get right down to it).  it is trusting in the ultimate knowledge of man (being supposedly far superior) than a Creator who has lived many more years than man.

the result is the same.  if laws are broken there is a result.  just like the law of gravity.  yoiu can't escape it - even if you wish - or you say, there is no God.  you still can't escape death, ressurrection, and judgement.  if you take a VERY SMALL risk now, you have nothing to lose. 

say, if you tell yourself, I will put my fate in the hands of my Creator.  I will chose (CHOOSE) to do His will according to the ten commandments (which none seem to be so far fetched as to not help youself or others anyway).  I mean, if we had a God that asked us to MURDER wouldn't that be much worse?  yet hatred is taught through racism and many other things that God never taught.  God is ultimately the fairest.

He teaches that even the branches that don't bear fruit (christians that have turned away from God) will be cut off so that others might be grafted in (possibly more humble people that are just beginning to know God)  that leaves no room for laziness.  God is not a lazy God.  just as a drill sargeant or piano teacher does not let you get away will sloppy performance.

would we respect God if He was any other way.  would we want a God that says "I'm only here for looks, I don't really do anything and I never would ask anything of you.  that would mean that I am harsh."  wohoo.  if our parents were never 'harsh' we'd have done pretty much as we pleased.  parents know what is best for their children until they are grown. we are in a growing process as physical human beings.  when we are spirit we will have MUCH more freedom. 

I think Satan is trying to thwart the blessings that will come to those men/women that choose God now.  He knows that if he can thwart them, they will lose out on an INHERITANCE!  just as Jacob sold it for a bowl of soup.  we might not realize how valuable it is until we try to redeem it (our souls) at the time we die.  then it is too late.  Christ himself said to 'seek God while He may be found. and call upon Him while He is near.'  praying and asking and petitioning God isn't to try to find out the future.  it is about understanding what to do now?  if we just do what we want (without consulting the bible) we are without guidance.  a loving Father gives us guidance - that's all.

[m1469]

nothing but music 


Well, and maybe this idea of perfection...

[Torp]

My bowl of yogurt and its delicious topping of M&Ms.

[m1469]

Torp's bowl of yogurt and its delicious topping of M&M's .... mmmmm

[Torp]

Lamenting the inadequate size of the yogurt bowl.....Now I'm forced to think about work.

[m1469]

Lamenting the inadequate size of the yogurt bowl, causing Torp to not share 



*m1469 goes to work, now*

[BoliverAllmon]

I should go practice more.

[thalbergmad]

What should i learn next??

[Torp]

Have I truly "learned" anything?  Or am I just making the same mistakes in a state of blissful ignorance?

[Bouter Boogie]

"I wanna go to bed!" *Yawns *

- BB

[Mozartian]

wondering why I thought gorgeous heartbreaking music + shakespeare sonnets @ 12:00 pm on a school night was a good idea....

[thalbergmad]

My piano stool has collapsed. I wonder if i can get a refund??

[Torp]

I wonder if I can overcome the impetus of my own life?  And, more importantly, I suppose, which is better, creamy or crunchy peanut butter?  I believe both questions are worthy of my consideration, but there is just so little time for the critical thought necessary to really gain any insight....

[m1469]

I am wondering what it means to truly think for oneself.. and if it is truly possible ?


Also, I am thinking about a young lady, she was about 8 when I met her, who I met at some kind of concert.  For some reason she and I ended up sitting right next to each other.  We got to talking and she told me with all self-assurance that she was going to be the president.  and I believed her.

[bernhard]

I am wondering what it means to truly think for oneself.. and if it is truly possible ?


Also, I am thinking about a young lady, she was about 8 when I met her, who I met at some kind of concert.  For some reason she and I ended up sitting right next to each other.  We got to talking and she told me with all self-assurance that she was going to be the president.  and I believed her.

You met Hilary Clinton when she was 8?

[leahcim]

believing in evolution is as relgious as not believing in evolution.

That simply isn't true.

believing in philosophy is a religion (if you want to get right down to it).  it is trusting in the ultimate knowledge of man (being supposedly far superior) than a Creator who has lived many more years than man.

We agree. Well, we agree that philosophy is bogus - it's bogus for the same reason as religion is, because it relied on beard scratching introspection to decide how things work <scratch beard> "Let me think...yes! The world was created by a turtle" <scratch beard> "...on a wednesday..." "Excellent Aristotle I shall tell the people"

just like the law of gravity.  yoiu can't escape it - even if you wish

I assume you mean in the sense that you have to accept it, whatever the bible says or doesn't about it. But most areas of science either are, or will be inescapable in that sense

Folk wouldn't spend so much time hoping to find that seaslugs disprove it otherwise.

- or you say, there is no God.  you still can't escape death, ressurrection, and judgement.  if you take a VERY SMALL risk now, you have nothing to lose. 

Fallacy of birfurcation. "Either there's a god or there isn't" aren't the only possibilities, especially when the consequences of each are considered.

The existence of a God or creator, doesn't necessarily lead to any conclusion that you should kill lambs, not work on Sunday, chop the end of your willy off, face a particular direction from time to time, strip naked and dance around stones or whatever else a religion might suggest it means.

It might be that the creator of the universe wants people to not believe in him or bother him and leave him in peace or suffer horribly for eternity.[Chances are a guy that good at maths and physics will be diagnosed with asperger's after all ]

It also sounds like you're suggesting you can trick God by pretending to believe he exists, or if you do geniunely believe, and it's not true then you've not lost much. Or you hope that some argument of assessing religion with the logic of what will happen if you believing or not will satisfy. Unfortunately that doesn't work.

e.g you've made wild claims that God will sort out other nations that have different religious beliefs - [the kind of comment that has often caused the more fanatical to get all outraged with each other and decide to give their God a helping hand]

How will he do that? It seems no less logical to suppose that other religions are right, and thus that their wild claims would then be true - perhaps it's wise to check what their God has planned for their non-believers before deciding the one you picked is low risk

If we are to believe in God because of some argument about the risks, then I'd say if your god is nice about it, wouldn't folk be better worshipping the one that might be more miffed?

How would Odin take it if he's true, he's not been in the papers for ages.

At the very least, I'd be more careful about assessing the risk. It's certainly true that people who have expressed belief in a particular religion or lack of it have had in the past very real consequences from that. AIUI there are around 2000 dead Americans, not to mention the others, because some loony believed that God spoke to him.

[Torp]

I hereby appoint leahcim as my surrogate voice in all further religious debates.

[m1469]

he he... Kombucha tea.


Hey, you know... I went to the store to get more and they were nearly sold out    I wonder how many people in my place of living read the forum and became excited by this wonderfully delectable drink  ? 

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya 


STAY AWAY FROM MY KOMBUCHA TEA   

[Mozartian]

i'm thinking...

I'M UUUBBBEERRRR SICK OF KNOW IT ALLS! Know it alls, beware my wroth. 

..I should finish that sonnet I was writing, but I randomly am not in the same mood now so don't know if I can. blah. Well actually it's a good thing I'm not in the same mood... argh... why do I complicate things by writing?!

I need a good cup'pa chai to warm up my fingers.

...and I have exactly 50,000,000,000 things I have to do before tomorrow.

[m1469]

I love teaching.  It's much deeper than I could have imagined. 


Also, these days, I believe in magic 

[bernhard]

Also, these days, I believe in magic 

Or do you mean magick?

[m1469]

Or do you mean magick?

Why, Yes.  I suppose that's exactly what I mean 


*curtsy*

[m1469]

Where's the iceberg ?


*doesn't see the iceberg*

[bernhard]

Where's the iceberg ?


*doesn't see the iceberg*

Famous last words from the "Titanic"'s captain...

(Either that, or Global warming).

[m1469]

Famous last words from the "Titanic"'s captain...

(Either that, or Global warming).

Yeah, blast global warming 

he he... I just want something to climb on, explore, and put my crampons into and stuff like that 


*browses through Bernhard posts*


(don't worry, I won't hurt you... he he)

[m1469]

What's on your mind right now?

hmmmm... well, gee Bob, thanks for asking.  I feel a little on the spot now, but I guess I will tell you anyway, if you really want to know... he he


Well, I am currently pretending like I am practising, or at the very least I am convincing myself that "I am taking a well deserved break from it".  Anyone convinced ?  he he.

Let's see, I am thinking about a fun what if, like, what if the whole Universe were made of chocolate ?  Hey maybe it is.  Maybe it's some form of God's chocolate.

Now for something that is not going to make any sense what-so-ever.  The other night I woke up in the middle of the night drifting off into some stratosphere that I had never been to.  Well, I lazily woke up remembering what I had been thinking in my dreams and started wondering... "what's funny about this situation, I really need some serious humor".  And then, it hit me, everything is absolutely hilarious !! 

Just think about it :  Earth ...  ha ha haaaa .... LOL, it cracks me up.



m1469 *goes and practises*


ps-  if you don't want to know, don't ask.  Okay ?  okay 

[Bob]

okay

Fine then.

[danyal]

My algebra exam tommorow morning... "And then the roots of the equation were equal to zero and less, exactly equivalent to how much I care for maths and its stupid roots..."

[thalbergmad]

My algebra exam tommorow morning... "And then the roots of the equation were equal to zero and less, exactly equivalent to how much I care for maths and its stupid roots..."

If you want to be a pianist, why are you bothering with that crap.

[danyal]

Its complicated. I need to have the right subject combination, to get the right mark etc etc to get into the university here. So, unfortunately without the ridiculous subject, I dont study music. Its only a year left though. I'll survive.

[thalbergmad]

Its complicated. I need to have the right subject combination, to get the right mark etc etc to get into the university here. So, unfortunately without the ridiculous subject, I dont study music. Its only a year left though. I'll survive.

How did it go??

[danyal]

Well. I think. One question for about 25 points they had taken straight out of the handbook I used the previous day to practise with... HAHAHA. I survived. BUT that was just the 1st paper...   (Its all for the piano...for the piano... )

[m1469]

Debating between doing my voice practising (boring  ) or doing more piano practising (super fun  ) .... hmmmm...

[danyal]

Debating between studying for my music history exam for tommorow (boring  ) or doing more piano practising (super fun  ) .... hmmmm...

[pianistimo]

that's always a hard decision.  maybe practice a little and study a lot.

some friends just called and want to come over today at 3:00 pm.  i've got 3 hours to clean a house on crutches.  my son is sleeping STILL - and hubby and daughter are at church.  i did get the dishes done.  this should be a side show.  (just getting down the stairs takes 10 minutes).

[danyal]

Wake your son up and tell him to help you. Really.

[arensky]

Sick of grading papers, my Music Appreciation class sucks! Bunch of morons with attitude. Glad I have Jazz History, they are good students. Or is it the subject matter? Don't care, this will all be over soon only five more classes! Next semester is another epoch....

[m1469]

How does one gain command of the keyboard ?

What is "command" ?


I want that.  But I am suspicious of it.  I don't think it is what it seems.  I think it is more a matter of command of oneself, even at the keyboard.



m1469 

[jas]

The main thing in my head right now (and all day) is:
IneedtosleepIneedtosleepIneedtosleepIneedtosleepIneedtosleepIneedtosleep...
with Chopin's G-sharp minor Prelude acting as a looped soundtrack.
It's starting to drive me mad.

Bloody essays.

[m1469]

I am just maybe the happiest I could ever be, at the moment.  I had met somebody after a page turning gig, she offered her place for my next piano recital, I called her a couple months later (just a couple of days ago), left a message, and she has called back wanting to set up a date for me to play telling me she was happy that I had followed up on that conversation.

The whole thing just gives me this feeling in my deepest parts, of happiness and fulfillment.  It is very meaningful to me on many levels.  Maybe I am glowing like I am pregnant (with music  ).


m1469


ps-  I feel like this is what I was born to do...

pss- I have a lot of tastey work ahead of me

psss-  mmmmmm... tastey work

[berrt]

Maybe I am glowing like I am pregnant (with music  ).

Whatever the product of this fertility - it will not sound like the results of other pregnancies 

B.