What's on your mind now?

[kelly_kelly]

I'm wondering just how hard is college level Algebra? hmmmmmm

You mean Linear Algebra? Challenging, but not impossible, at least according to a friend of mine who's taking it now.

[m19834]

I am thinking :  Welcome to the new me ... "enjoy" it while it lasts.

[thalbergmad]

Welcome to the new me

Welcome back.

Is there anything else on the forum you do not like and want to change??

Thal

[m19834]

Is there anything else on the forum you do not like and want to change??

Thal

You don't want to know what is going on inside of me.  I barely even know.  I will just say, what do people really expect is inside of me ?  A unicorn covered in rainbows ?  A big pink cotton candy ?  I am intense, unfortunately, and right now I seem to have had something opened up in me ... ha ha ... ONE chord !

[opus10no2]

Do you hope your posts make sense to or interest someone else, or are you happy expressing your self in some kind of solipsistic way?

[m19834]

hmmmm ... I guess that depends.  Was your post supposed to be of interest to anybody besides yourself ?  Or, does that not really matter ?  Seems like you have discovered a fancy word for the day.  It's really just an observation... could be wrong.

*strokes beard*

[opus10no2]

Sometimes it matters, I can be happy with just having clarified something in words for my own sake, but often I like a response and either approval or some sort of enjoyable discourse, in which I oxymoronically like to be right and to learn something new at the same time.

I ask because your posting style and subject matter take a bit of time to read and understand in many cases, and to take up peoples time shows either a sense of self-importance or just a free-rolling expressivity.

Either way, it's still sexy, don't worry 

[m19834]

hmmm ... well, if you would like to put it that way.  From what I have gathered over the course of my time here, it seems that most people couldn't really care less about what I post or whether I am here.  It hardly matters whether I spend a lot of time trying to answer other people's questions, trying to build whatever in the forum ... I guess a photo from me has gotten the occasional response.  But, take Thal's signature, for example.  While I feel somewhat honored to be quoted in there (and I am sure he will swoop in to cut me down about that one), out of all the things I have ever posted on the forum, that is what sticks out to people at the time.  I throw my hands up.  It seems that a number of people like to "play rough" around here, and there is utter surprise if I play roughly back.  HA !

Anyway, people can think what they want of me ... as a matter of fact, I can't control that.  I am just me.  Plain old me.  Lately I have decided to speak my mind more.  And, nobody has to take their time reading me if it's such a bother.  At the core of it all, I have been here all along because I love music and I love piano ... I have a very active and curious mind, and I like to engage my mind with others when and if I get the real chance... especially when it comes to piano and music.  That has been the absolute essence of why I am here and people will either see that or I guess they won't. 

[opus10no2]

Did I say it way a bother? I like you and value your contributions. I was just wondering what your own opinion was on what compells you to post.

You have a high word count, and you type like I imagine you'd talk... I don't do that, I cut it down and keep it brief and succinct..both because I'm lazy and because I like the imppact of a short point. I like your style too, but I was just thinking..there is a different personality behind it, a different motivation.

Pianistimo is an extreme example, extremely wordy, and it actually leads me to think she has one hell of an ego  expecting people to respect her words enough to spend that much time reading them.

[m19834]

hmmm ... well, I don't always post long posts.  As a matter of fact, I have many that are not very long at all.  But, nobody remembers those ... hmmm.

Anyway, what motivates me to post has mostly to do with my love of piano.

Something I have realized very distinctly is that no matter what I do, no matter how I post, no matter what I post about, somebody will have something to say about why it's not going to work.  There is absolutely no way to win.  So, yeah, I am just myself.  If I post more seriously and shorter, some people say I am not being myself.  If I post longer posts, people ask me how big my ego must be to have a higher word count.  If I make a point of asking my questions as succinctly as possible, everybody under the sun acts as though they don't get it.  hmmm ... there is a very long list here  .


"why are you not more serious ?  Why are you not more fun ?  Why do you write so much ?  Why don't you explain yourself more ?  Why don't you ask questions anymore ?  Why do you ask so many questions ?"  so on and so forth.


{edit} I have just realized that my post count is currently at 999 ... wow, that's my favorite number times three.  Not to mention that it's my favorite number because it's three times three.  From now on, I am only going to be able to edit this post instead of making new posts, so that I can stay forever at 999.

[opus10no2]

Your love of piano sure does show, though I've noticed you speak mainly in general about music and piano, and rarely with passion about music you've discovered and found a passion for(which I used to do alot).

[m19834]

I feel I am currently learning to love music and the piano in a whole new way right now.  I have loved pieces in the past, but there have been some major things getting in my way and the combination of loving pieces as much as I did, and needing more guidance (or *something*) in order to play them, left me kind of ... devastated.  Somewhere in there I really had to take a step back and I had to stop being in love with it the same way ... but, I didn't quite know how to deal with that either ... because I still loved it and I still wanted to love pieces, too.  So, actually some years went by like that where I feel I floated around in some no man's land. 

Then, I met my mentor whom I currently study with.  I am learning really a whole approach where I can see that right now I need to learn tools (which on some level I always knew I needed but didn't know how to find them), and as I gain these tools, I can let myself open the doors more to the pieces.  But, I think there's a bit of a process involved.  I actually do love the pieces I am playing, but it's in a different way than I have ever loved it all before, and I like that.  I suspect though that these pieces will continue to grow to mean the world to me, and I am very grateful for the experience. 

It's been scary business for me (at least in the past) to be massively in love with pieces.

[morningstar]

Ha! 1000 post count. Sorry, couldn't help myself.

[m19834]

(Did one of my posts actually get deleted, or is there some function that allows the numbers to actually stay at 999 for the rest of my forum life, no matter how many actual posts I have ?  I guess we'll see ... )

I also have to say that I actually *insanely* adore the piano as an instrument, the piano itself.  I can't even begin to explain how much nor why, what I feel about it is just part of me, as though it's actually inside of my bones or my bones themselves, or actually my very blood or something.  It's almost like the piano just feels like it is the structure and function of my being.  I am not sure how to describe that in one word other than saying I "love" it, but in a sense it doesn't really matter how you call it, the way I feel about it would still be the same.

These whole last several years have been about me trying in earnest to find a way to live with that kind of pull to something like an instrument, and something like the piano.  It's not a fun thing to have every fiber of my being feel as though I should be able to do something that I simply cannot ... it creates some kind of force inside of me that I can hardly cope with.  And, in the past, I think that people either haven't known the extent of what that does to me, or they have thought it's somehow beneficial to me to experience that in the way that I have.  The only way I can think to describe it is to imagine all of the water of the world, or at least an entire ocean, being held up in a glass tank, and to have that water be conscious of the fact that it's actually supposed to be a moving, living, breathing ocean ... with life inside of it and all of the wonders that a humungous ocean is. 

If you consider just the natural pressure of the water, you would get an idea.  But, if you also consider the consciousness the water would have, the desire to be the ocean it knows it's supposed to be, that's it's very makeup in being ... it looks out of the glass tank and knows it's supposed to be out there ... that adds yet a whole new pressure to the situation.  That's kind of how I feel or have felt for the last several years, and it's in no way entertaining for me and actually frightens me quite a bit.  It frightens me so much that I have had to somehow remove myself from it.  Another thing regarding that is that I think it takes a particular type of person to have the "know how" and have the willingness to work with somebody like me, and I get nervous about that, too, because of the pressure that my kind of desire might put on them.

Last time I saw my mentor, I played a particular chord in a particular way that was somehow akin to somebody puncturing the glass tank in a precise way that wouldn't shatter the glass (maybe ?).  So, maybe now there is a trickle ... but, there's a huge force behind it that I still can't allow myself to fully feel ... it seems.  Or, maybe it's all running out of me, I don't know for sure.

So, my feelings regarding the piano and music are not just about pieces, though pieces will obviously play a particular role.  I feel like I have had to be walking a tight rope so as just to remain somewhat sane ... hee hee.  And, what if anyway that's all how I feel but then I open up and there is nothing there ?  Anyway, I think there is something there.  When I think about a few of my improvs, even though they are very rough, it is at least an indication that perhaps what I feel about myself in relation to the piano might be true, and if I can somehow find the right way to deal with that ... that just seems not like icing on the cake, but somehow essential to my life and my well being.

[thalbergmad]

Did one of my posts actually get deleted

Perhaps the one in my signature?

Thal

[opus10no2]

It's just an observation, looking at your statistics from your present and past accounts, you don't post much at all in the repertoire board.

I barely know anything about the music you love, and it puzzles me because I'm absolutely obsessed with discovery and beautiful music.

I dedicate a great deal of time to listening to lots of pieces, known and unknown, and I love discovering buried treasure.

I know me and Thal have in common that we are avid followers of hyperion's romantic piano concerto series, which have unearthed unheard and untold beauty.

I really passionately dislike those pianists who follow their teacher's orders, become good pianists, but NEVER show this kind of curiosity and interest!
Both in pianists, obsessively devouring a discography of a certain great, or in repertoire, constantly searching for beauty and new sensations.

It make me so sad sometimes, knowing there is so much beautiful music I will never hear, I love beholding the wonder and majesty the world has to offer, and DESPISE the apathy many show towards it.

[m19834]

Well, just because I don't madly post about particular things doesn't mean that much.  I have pieces that I deeply love, some that I actually love so much that I can't even hardly talk about them at all to anybody ... ha ha.  There are some that I love very much that I have never played yet, and again, it's not something I feel the need to go around the repertoire board, or any other board, talking about.  The fact that I even responded to Alistair not too long ago, saying that Au lac de Wallenstadt is a piece that means very much to me is a rare occurance for me, I know.

In some sense, I AM always looking for whatever new gem may light something up in me, but I am also just insanely interested in learning things about the PIANO itself.  I appreciate the balance.  And, pieces end up meaning so much to me that I savor them ... hee hee.  Compared to the whole of the piano repertoire, I don't find a lot that really affect me deeply.  I am generally not looking for a "quick fix" or a simple adreneline rush, though I admit it can be very fun to play fast.  But, fun to play and fun to listen to can be two different things.  And, music that truly touches me has to be about WAY more than speed.

Anyway, I am not too concerned at this point with what you despise in other pianists or not.  And, yes, I am very much concerned right now with what is happening in my playing and with what my teacher thinks and says about my playing, and really about music and piano in general.  If it didn't matter to me what my teacher says, there would be no reason for me to see him.  Right now my repertoire is a balance of pieces that he has recommended and pieces that I have found on my own and decided I wanted to play, and I actually love them all.  I appreciate more than I can say that my teacher has specific things to say to me and specific things for me to take home with me and work on.  Of *course* I want to master those things, and of course they are worth every ounce of my effort and energy.

[opus10no2]

I wasn't talking about you when I was desribing what I disliked, I just noticed what you admit yourself; a very reserved attitude to speaking about specific pieces.

I like alot of music, and it isn't about a quick fix...I go on alot of dates with different pieces, and have alot of fun, but I only return to them and commit extended periods of time to them if I love them.

I don't know if you're as adventurous a listener as I am, but back to what I was saying about others- I've got a comparitively etensive knowledge of the repertoire, and do pretty damn well on 'guess the piece' listening tests.
Of course there has to be a balance between devoting time to pieces you already love and discovering new ones, but in some people I think the balance is way out of whack.

[general disarray]

I don't know if you're as adventurous a listener as I am, but back to what I was saying about others- I've got a comparitively etensive knowledge of the repertoire, and do pretty damn well on 'guess the piece' listening tests.
Of course there has to be a balance between devoting time to pieces you already love and discovering new ones, but in some people I think the balance is way out of whack.

Beyond that, I'm always surprised how PS Forumites rarely discuss chamber music or even more perplexing, vocal music, especially opera.  I've tried in the past, but it goes no where.  The "What Are You Listening to Now?" thread was/is always very interesting.  People talked about music outside of the piano lit.  Often fascinating. 

I've never known a terrific instrumentalist who didn't love opera.  If you don't study great singers and singing, then you're cheating yourself.

Also, equally weird, is how any time I've started a thread to comment on new recordings, it peters out almost instantly.  Why don't we review them for one another?  Doesn't anyone buy new CDs out there?

Has anyone heard Stephen Hough's new recital album?  Does anyone care? 

   

[m19834]

Beyond that, I'm always surprised how PS Forumites rarely discuss chamber music or even more perplexing, vocal music, especially opera.  I've tried in the past, but it goes no where.  The "What Are You Listening to Now?" thread was/is always very interesting.  People talked about music outside of the piano lit.  Often fascinating. 

I've never known a terrific instrumentalist who didn't love opera.  If you don't study great singers and singing, then you're cheating yourself.

Also, equally weird, is how any time I've started a thread to comment on new recordings, it peters out almost instantly.  Why don't we review them for one another?  Doesn't anyone buy new CDs out there?

Has anyone heard Stephen Hough's new recital album?  Does anyone care? 

I would actually LOVE it if we could do something somewhat formal together, and I have actually tried numerous times but it has never actually worked out.  I once started a thread about the Bach inventions, of which I have actually 7 or 8 different recordings, but I think I didn't even get a single response in that thread. 

Something that seems to cause problems anytime something specific is trying to get organized is a lack of agreement amongst the members whom even act interested in being involved in a project (and then there are always those individuals whom have no direct interest in the project itself but would just enjoy disrupting things for their own entertainment).  For example, at one point (though this is not listening, directly), I tried to start a project of going through a particular theory book with other members whom actually already had that book, and somebody swoops in to try to have everybody use a different book.  Eventually the whole thing became disassembled. 

Also, when it comes to listening to recordings, I will be honest and say that I have a very difficult time talking about that, and it's not just because of emotional things.  I feel I need more language, and I need more specifics to listen for.  To be asked to go listen to something and then give a response, and that's all the more information I get, you are going to have a very difficult time getting me to share my experience.  But, if I have some structure around what I am listening for (not that this would be my whole experience), that is very helpful for me.  I would guess that there are plenty of people who would like to be able to discuss recordings and artists in a more educated way.

[general disarray]

Also, when it comes to listening to recordings, I will be honest and say that I have a very difficult time talking about that, and it's not just because of emotional things.  I feel I need more language, and I need more specifics to listen for.  To be asked to go listen to something and then give a response, and that's all the more information I get, you are going to have a very difficult time getting me to share my experience.  But, if I have some structure around what I am listening for (not that this would be my whole experience), that is very helpful for me.  I would guess that there are plenty of people who would like to be able to discuss recordings and artists in a more educated way.

Good idea.  Okay, let's take a look at Hough's "In Recital" album.  His choice of repertoire is fascinating and rather curious.  Maybe we could discuss the cumulative effect of beginning with "Variations Serieuses," then Beethoven Opus. 111," then Weber's "Invitation to the Dance," etc.  I mean, two powerful early Romantic masterpieces book-ending Beethoven's mystical (almost modernist) masterpiece.  You know, discussions like this.  Or not. 

I actually emailed Hough about this album and he answered!  He thought his programming was off the wall and wondered what listeners would think.  I, personally, loved the CD.

Gotta go.  Surf's uo.  Literally!

   

[m19834]

Good idea.  Okay, let's take a look at Hough's "In Recital" album.  His choice of repertoire is fascinating and rather curious.  Maybe we could discuss the cumulative effect of beginning with "Variations Serieuses," then Beethoven Opus. 111," then Weber's "Invitation to the Dance," etc.  I mean, two powerful early Romantic masterpieces book-ending Beethoven's mystical (almost modernist) masterpiece.  You know, discussions like this.  Or not. 

I actually emailed Hough about this album and he answered!  He thought his programming was off the wall and wondered what listeners would think.  I, personally, loved the CD.

Gotta go.  Surf's uo.  Literally!

Well, sorry, but sometimes it's very difficult for me to take you seriously.  I basically consider that you just aimed to show me up or shut me up, and at the very least of it, you apparently think that what I am wanting is something that is stupid to you.  That's fine if that's how you would like to live your life, but I didn't gain too much from your response aside from feeling like I shouldn't bother reading you.

[general disarray]

Well, sorry, but sometimes it's very difficult for me to take you seriously.  I basically consider that you just aimed to show me up or shut me up, and at the very least of it, you apparently think that what I am wanting is something that is stupid to you.  That's fine if that's how you would like to live your life, but I didn't gain too much from your response aside from feeling like I shouldn't bother reading you.

You know, you always respond this way to me, so I can only think your self-esteem is so utterly impoverished that you imagine I would want to belittle you.

Or, conversely, you are so grandiose that you think I'd bother to spend my valuable time ridiculing you.

Any way you slice it, lady, you've got the problem, not me.   

[opus10no2]

I would guess that there are plenty of people who would like to be able to discuss recordings and artists in a more educated way.

Listening to music IS the education, and it's all the education you need.

Bach inventions, sure they're great, and sure Rachmaninov and Beethoven are great, but I was wondering about the lesser known pieces and composers you listen to and have a fondness for.

You talk about an ongoing hunger for information but do you have that hunger for music?

I like to talk about less estabished works that move or interest me, this is more dangerous because I feel a bond with the music and the fact it may not be established as 'great' leaves people open to be very critical, and when the piece feels like it is part of me or at least refects part of me, it can be hard not to take it as a personal insult.
Still, I open up discussions about it and see what other people think, it's actually not that diffeent from performing and exposing one's own playing!

[m19834]

Listening to music IS the education, and it's all the education you need.

Well, though I agree that there is something to what you say, I certainly don't agree fully with that.  And, even if my disagreement is the very fact that I know I want something more, then I therefore need more.  In general, when I am talking about "educated" and these things, I am not just talking about what people learn in school or things which many people just love to consider "stuffy" ... I mean it in a very fundamental sense of the word.  I don't know, I think I am *far* more curious than most people must think and can even imagine. 

Bach inventions, sure they're great, and sure Rachmaninov and Beethoven are great, but I was wondering about the lesser known pieces and composers you listen to and have a fondness for.

Just because I have a love for the inventions and some things which are more well-known doesn't mean that is the only thing that I love.  Sometimes there are very specific reasons I want to know about certain things, and sometimes it is apparently IMPOSSIBLE for me to explain that in a satisfactory way to anybody on the entire planet.

You talk about an ongoing hunger for information but do you have that hunger for music?

Yes, of course I do.  This is a good example of where I have actually stated numerous times, very directly, that I deeply love music ... specific pieces, and for whatever reason, just because you apparently don't see whatever you think you need to see in my writing, you (as an example) don't seem to see what I am saying.  I just don't understand that.

Still, I open up discussions about it and see what other people think, it's actually not that diffeent from performing and exposing one's own playing!

Well, with all due respect, I am not too convinced you know that much about what it is like to perform and expose one's playing.  So far, I mostly get the impression that you mainly talk about doing so as though you know what you are talking about.  That aside, I don't understand why sometimes you can't just see that people behave in different manners, and it doesn't mean what you think it does, necessarily.  Just because you open up discussions on particular works doesn't mean I should, or anybody else really.  And, besides that, I have !!

I guess part of the point is, I feel it takes me a very long time, and I truly mean a very long time, to grasp a piece of a music.  I really mean years.  And, until I am grasping *something* about it, I don't feel inclined to speak about it, especially with jerky sharks swimming everywhere.  But, a couple of examples of pieces that mean very much to me are the Feinberg 6th sonata, for example.  And, yes, I am very attached to the rendition that our local artist, Marik, has posted.  But, see, when I listen to this, it means something to me that I would wish to discuss with HIM, not just with any random person who might feel it's fun to be rude just for the sake of it.  Yes, I happen to be a very sensitive person, and for years I am trying to deal with that.  Forgive me if I don't always feel like being whatever others think I should be.  Part of it is that I don't always know whether it is the piece or the artist that is affecting me as it seems I am being affected.  So, in the case of Marik, for example, I listen to all of the recordings of him that I have access to, and in the case of the sonata itself, I would be interested to hear other people's performances (but I still might just be biased ... you see ?).  That is where I feel as though sometimes I need more fuel for my thought and not just continue swimming around in my own, exclusive perceptions.  But, I certainly don't trust any random person's ideas.

Another example is Barber's Interlude No.1, adagio for Jeanne.  I have a recording by John Browning.  I absolutely, hands down, crave this piece.  And, it seems to me that John Browning has a good grasp of it, but I don't *really* know !  I like all of Barber's music, but this one in particular absolutely is different for me.  I like the version of Burgmuller's "Music of the Angels" that somebody recorded and posted in the sheetmusic section of PS (not the audition room, but the official recording for the sheetmusic), a level 3 piece according to the levels assigned here on this site.  I like listening to those recordings.  Have you done any listening of those ?  Have you bothered to purchase whatever the gold membership account costs (I just forget the exact number) and have a listen ?

I absolutely *love* some mystery piece that nobody seems to know, which I just by CHANCE got to know through an amazing recording that one of my former teachers made.  He is a nearly completely unkown artist, and apparently this piece is extremely unknown, and I would *die* to play it, but for whatever the heck reason, for YEARS, can't figure out what it is.

Also, I have listened now to Alistair Hinton's string quintet about 5 or 6 times in total, full length at once (and then sometimes parts when I don't have the time to listen to the whole thing).  Have you heard it even once ?  When I first listened to this, I wasn't sure what my reaction was, I mean, I knew what it was, but I wasn't sure why I was having it.  So, generally, I like to give myself time and see if for any reason I ever want to return to listening to a piece of music.  And, I have.  It is a monstrous work.

Anyway, I often weigh what my actions and thoughts are.  I happen to be teaching for about 25-30 hours a week (actual teaching time, not to mention prep. time), I seriously study two instruments (sometimes which I am actually preparing concerts/performances for), and I have a household to somewhat maintain, as a person whom shares a space with another.  I feel I could *easily* practice for at least 10 hours a day between my two instruments, and there are MILLION things I would like to be doing just to better myself as a musician, alone !  So, no, I don't dedicate large amounts of time to strictly listening.  When I do, it needs to really count.

[thalbergmad]

I absolutely *love* some mystery piece that nobody seems to know, which I just by CHANCE got to know through an amazing recording that one of my former teachers made.  He is a nearly completely unkown artist, and apparently this piece is extremely unknown, and I would *die* to play it, but for whatever the heck reason, for YEARS, can't figure out what it is.

Please send me a copy, i love a challenge.

Shall we say 2 Thalburgers if i find out who it is and another 2 if i get you the score.

Thal

[opus10no2]

I'm not criticising you, I'm just saying what I've observed and what I've made of it.
Different people are different people, we know this, I haven't assumed anything, ony expressed things that intrigued me.

Do I think that you must love music less that I do because you listen to it less? No, but I still wonder why.

I understand the balance of doing your own thing, working on music, and actually listening it is different to mine, everyone's is different... I'm just trying to get at what it means.

The impulse to express is one thing, but I do think it's really cool when I hear about artists who still look out for new music and devote a good amount of time to just *listening*.


I do still think it's the most important musical activity for any musician, and if I was a teacher I'd actually spend a good amount of lesson time introducing students to music and discovering what they like, getting a feel for what they'd want to play, and discussing music.
Can you explicate your first paragraph there? I can't see why anyone would need to do anything more than listen to express their feelings and opinions about pieces of music.

[gep]

Also, I have listened now to Alistair Hinton's string quintet about 5 or 6 times in total, full length at once (and then sometimes parts when I don't have the time to listen to the whole thing).  Have you heard it even once ?  When I first listened to this, I wasn't sure what my reaction was, I mean, I knew what it was, but I wasn't sure why I was having it.  So, generally, I like to give myself time and see if for any reason I ever want to return to listening to a piece of music.  And, I have.  It is a monstrous work.

With "monstous" you mean a compliment, I think (hope)? Or just an indication of size?
Yes, I've heard it, several times (although the last time was a while ago...So much music, so little time... ). I personally think it's a magnificent work (like his other ones I've heard so far, which are too few). I'm really hoping his Piano Quintet will get finished someday and become available, I'm really curious about that one. It's going to be even longer than Furtwängler's if I'm rightly informed.

If you want pieces unknown, try Allgén's Sonata for Solo Violin. Now there's un unknown composer!

[m19834]

Can you explicate your first paragraph there? I can't see why anyone would need to do anything more than listen to express their feelings and opinions about pieces of music.

I will be as direct as possible.  This :

Listening to music IS the education, and it's all the education you need.

Is very unsatisfying and nearly discouraging for me.  While this :

Re: legato vs. detached.
There should be very a clear distinction between formal physical legato and mental one, which in a broader understanding is a connection between ideas, rather than notes. It is possible formally connect notes, but they would sound completely disconnected. On the other hand, playing detached can be perfectly organaized and connected into ideas.

A perfect example would be G. Gould.  Some say he plays non legato, when in reality it is perfectly connected. It might be sounded paradoxal, but in this sense, non-legato is a highest incarnation of legato.

Best, M

(https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php/topic,21174.msg346283.html#msg346283)

Piques my interest, lights a fire in me and makes me want to listen for what that is. 

That doesn't mean I want my experience to be limited to listening for one aspect, or even that I want my experience to be limited to a set of aspects outlined by somebody whom I even very much respect.  It is just my reaction, and if I am right about your intent, aren't I supposed to just trust my own gut reactions and need nothing else ?  And, this is a similar thing to something I have said to you in the past.  It is impossible for me to explain why I want/need something to somebody whom is convinced that there is no need in the world for whatever it is that I want/need.  So, I won't spend my time trying to convince you that what my reactions are, are correct for me.  It doesn't mean that's the only kind of listening I ever want to do, I just would like that type of listening to be a part of my life, and I don't think I will always find those concepts on my own (though sometimes I will find some concepts that others won't). 

[opus10no2]

Sure, but I didn't need anyone to tell me that, that's a discussion of semantics and not music.

Discussion is required to find common ground and communicate opinions relating to music, but the music itself is always the primary tutor and inspiration.

Anyway, another point I'm curious about is when you say it takes a long time to digest and truly 'know' and 'understand' a piece, why do you think that is?

[m19834]

Sure, but I didn't need anyone to tell me that, that's a discussion of semantics and not music.

Well, it is for you what it is for you.  For me, it is a matter of becoming more clear on musical ideas (or, potentially musical ideas), and developing myself in a language that I can speak with my other self on  .  It is similar for me as learning a new word or so.  As I have said before, I want to be more familiar with the language. 

Anyway, as to why it takes me so long to digest a piece, there are several reasons for that.  To put it simply, I like to "look" at a piece from myriads of different angles.  What I am about to say may seem unrelated but, to me, it's not.  For me, I have a very difficult time distinguishing a precise difference between space and time ... what that means to my ability to digest pieces is that when I look at a piece from the space of a couple of years, it looks differently to me (it somehow fills things in over that span of time, and becomes bigger or something).  One of the ways I like to understand things is actually backwards.  I like to understand things backwards (though I like to understand things forward just as much) ... and that is actually a kind of big misfortune sometimes in my life.  Anyway, without having time/space with a piece, I don't have the backwards perspective in the same way.  And, strangely, once I do have a backwards perspective, that which is "forward" makes more sense to me.  I honestly can't imagine this is making much sense to anybody at all ... ha ha.

I like to sit on top of a mountain and look down and see the piece that way.  Or, in an airplane, at/in the ocean, in the forest ... in my backyard, etc. etc. etc..  I like to go back in time and put a piece into portions of my life where it wasn't before.  I like to change the order of events in my life with it.  I just like to live with it.  I like it to kind of nestle its way into me to where I can no longer separate myself from it, and I think that just takes time with me.  Many things do, actually.  I don't want just a first impression ... I want many first impressions (and everything in between).

hmmm ... that's all for now.

[opus10no2]

Well, music is, on one objective level, just a bunch of notes, and it takes the ear a few listens to get it all familiar(depending on the complexity of the piece), so it is a sensual experience, a matching of tones and rhythms in unique orders.
The beauty of music exists in that alone, but since we attach emotion to anything that is sensually impressed upon us, it becomes a big factor too, in our enjoyment...it's an interesting dance between the two, but I still maintain that it only takes a few listens to digest the notes, and that's the important part.

The one thing that changes with time is context..remember that music has 'vocabulary', and the initial understanding we have of a piece is aided by the fragments, microphrases, intervals and motifs we have already heard.
So the feelings we have for a piece will change as we get to know other new pieces.

Also we can get bored with pieces! Listening to even the greatest pieces on repeat can get annoying and boring....there has to be space and time between for it to be fresh.

Can you speak on your opinions towards 'commitment' to particular pieces?
Devoting time to what you know and like, safe and secure, versus trying new ones.

[m19834]

I think that part of the deal is that different people have stronger pulls in certain directions when it comes to litening to a piece.  So, taking something like a motif, for example, perhaps that takes one individual a split second (or as long as it takes for the motif to be played in real time) to identify and remember ... mainly because they know to listen for it.  If you take somebody else who doesn't know to listen for something called a "motif," they may walk away singing a tune subconsciously, but their experience in listening is most likely going to have been very different based on that fact alone, aside from the fact that every individual has by nature their own unique listening experience no matter what.

I guess my point is, I need/want more practice learning how to hear those sorts of things for what they are.  In my case, I have always had a very strong pull in other directions that actually has very much gotten into my way.  It's similar to a baby having only the language of screams, cries and laughter.  That is actually how I feel at times, as though I just don't have the ability to articulate in a musical wording, what it is that I am needing to say.

As far as a sense of commitment goes ... well, all I can say is that I have a difficult time letting something go (at least for good), if I feel I haven't actually achieved what I sense I am capable of and/or if I haven't truly achieved a kind of 'true' understanding of the piece (as in, whatever the PIECE is capable of).  At the same time, I recognize that actually part of achieving anything like that may involve putting it down for a while and then picking it back up later.

In general, I am a person who has *often* spread myself way too thin.  It has been a wrestle for me to get pointed in life, in some respects anyway, and I can *easily* do the same things with music as well, if I don't have some sort of focal point.  I realize I have a pretty lazy side, and if I don't have a good enough reason, I won't persist through getting something past the difficult stages.  In that respect I think it takes some kind of commitment, but at the same time, it can be really easy to shuffle through new pieces, one after another, so long as I don't really have to start working.  That is not satisfying for me. 

You know, I don't think I am making sense ... I am getting sleepy ... very sleepy... I am listening to the sound of my voice ... I am a in a safe, warm place... I can't think anymore...

*sleep walks*

[opus10no2]

Fair enough 

Well you seem to think I have leapt to judgements about you, they're really just ideas and potential conclusions based on my own ideas.
Our minds both are made of the same elements, born in the heart of a star, so I think of humanity as more of a whole than most seem to, it makes me patient and curious about how other minds work.
On that note I'd be curious to hear the way you interpret how my mind works  if you care to tell.

[m19834]

No, I don't necessarily think that you have leapt to judgements about me, actually.  I do think that we view music a bit differently one from another, and though I would suppose we are both ultimately looking to enjoy ourselves in what we do with the music we play, I suspect that how we enjoy it is probably pretty different.  And, I don't just mean because we are each our own person, I just mean different mentalities, aims, and ideas.  Of course, this has a lot to do with how we each individually work in general, too.

hmmm ... well, of course I won't know how your mind actually works.  In general though I definitely think that we --humanity-- as individuals are capable of what seem like amazing insights to us, at least as compared to the world as we know it (to whatever extent that is or is not).  I think that there are some maybe natural tendencies in how people may think or what they may feel like they are realizing (there are some HUGE archs, too), and I think that much of it seems very personal to us, when in fact it's probably very much not what it seems.

All I really know is how you and I are capable of interacting, and sometimes, like this interaction, it can actually be something very nice, and something that somehow even gives me a new perspective in a kind of way that can be unique in my life.  I also know that sometimes our interaction doesn't work for me, or at least that it seems we expect different things one from another (that is not an unusual thing in life in general, of course).  My point though in bringing up anything related to that is that I think we learn a bit about the other person, based on how we know ourselves and are able to interact with the other.  There is probably information about me that you may feel you have a particular insight into simply because you know certain aspects of yourself to the degree that you know those aspects.  And, you know how you respond (or don't respond) to particular things.  That can tell a lot about another person's general mindset, as well as beliefs and so on.  What an individual does with that information is another matter, too.

I know I was perhaps general in my response, but that is what I would be willing to commit to on the subject for now. 

[ikedian]

My aggravation with the fact that not enough people play vintage on MWS.  Then out of the ones that do, 55-60% are playing Vault decks.  Then my aggravation that my deck is 13-2-0, two losses two vault, when that's supposed to be my best match-up :x

[opus10no2]

You've avoided making judgements there but I do know you have stronger opinions which you're not getting into.
Judging from what you know of me, do you think I may ever be a person of great consequence, capable of achieving great or at least unique things?

[m19834]

You've avoided making judgements there but I do know you have stronger opinions which you're not getting into.
Judging from what you know of me, do you think I may ever be a person of great consequence, capable of achieving great or at least unique things?

Well, one thing about me is that I do have strong thoughts and opinions for sure.  However, I am actually very willing to change them as I have the opportunity to do so.  In all of my many, many years in this life ( ), so far the only person who has ever truly surprised me and has changed somehow my fundamental view, has been my own mother.

Anyway, you will *love* this answer to your question.  I think that you are a person whom has probably already achieved some very interesting and unique things, perhaps they could be considered great.  But, I think you are a person whom among whatever your formal achievements, is capable of achieving continuously higher and deeper levels in the concept of what it means to be great and unique (in whatever way that will be for you, it can grow on itself), giving you a new carrot to chase.

[cmg]

You've avoided making judgements there but I do know you have stronger opinions which you're not getting into.
Judging from what you know of me, do you think I may ever be a person of great consequence, capable of achieving great or at least unique things?

Ah, what an interesting dialogue this has become!

As I recall, in the older days -- when "Karli" was "m1469" -- you two became embroiled in nasty, sexually tinged threads where "m1469" grew incensed at your provocative language and publicly denounced you for inappropriateness. 

And now we have such yearning, searching sallies into deeper, metaphysical explorations of one another's talents?  Fascinating and sophomoric.

Could you two give all of us break from this pseudo-cyber-seduction? 

Kindly confine your more "intimate" lives to PMs, please.   

[quasimodo]

Oh c'mon cmg, at least it's entertaining. This forum is so boring these days.

[cmg]

Oh c'mon cmg, at least it's entertaining. This forum is so boring these days.

True, quasi.  But, both of these posters have been so intolerant of others in the past, I just can't avoid a parting shot. 

Karli's a genuine "head case," posing as a feeling intellectual with the most irrational pronouncements on music that I have ever read.  No, irrational is a compliment.  She's demented and beneath amateurish.  Nothing she writes makes sense.  Opus is "da original speed freak" from a parallel universe who has irritated and driven away some of the most thoughtful pianists on this forum.

That they united in this unholy dialogue strikes me as the most absurd development here in months.  This Forum deserves them. 

[m19834]

Ah, what an interesting dialogue this has become!

As I recall, in the older days -- when "Karli" was "M." -- you two became embroiled in nasty, sexually tinged threads where "M." grew incensed at your provocative language and publicly denounced you for inappropriateness. 

And now we have such yearning, searching sallies into deeper, metaphysical explorations of one another's talents?  Fascinating and sophomoric.

Could you two give all of us break from this pseudo-cyber-seduction? 

Kindly confine your more "intimate" lives to PMs, please.   

People are so weird  .  Occasionally there is a moment where I actually like humanity again, and then I become quickly disappointed.

Cheers.

[cmg]

People are so weird  .  Occasionally there is a moment where I actually like humanity again, and then I become quickly disappointed.

Cheers.

"Cheers," my arse.  You don't like any "humanity" except that depraved segment that finds your verbal narcissism similar to their own.

Get over yourself and stop behaving as if you're some victim.  You're a classic predator, girl, and you know it.

[m19834]

"Cheers," my arse.  You don't like any "humanity" except that depraved segment that finds your verbal narcissism similar to their own.

Get over yourself and stop behaving as if you're some victim.  You're a classic predator, girl, and you know it.

er ...    I guess it's my cue.  See ya'all 'round.

[cmg]

er ...    I guess it's my cue.  See ya'all 'round.

Oh, this is your "victim" position?  No reflection on your behavior?  No response to your totally rude (and nearly psychotic) post to General Disarray on his comments on Stephen Hough's latest CD?

 

[Bob]

Jesus... Pianistimo....

I'm wondering if there's anything to it, that Pianistimo "returns" shortly before Easter.  Hmmm.

[ahinton]

Jesus... Pianistimo....

I'm wondering if there's anything to it, that Pianistimo "returns" shortly before Easter.  Hmmm.

Only to disappear again? I wouldn't worry about that if I were you!...

Best,

Alistair

[Bob]

I see another ad for Rosetta Stone.

"He was a hardworking farm boy.

She was an Italian supermodel.

He knew he would have just one chance to impress her."

(Bob adds) We know that he has a snowball's chance in Hell no matter how much Italian he knows.  But this farm boy will fully understand, in her native language, that she's really not interested.  If he gets to an advanced level in his Italian language study, he can understand the slang terms the supermodel uses to describe him.  I bet he'll be a very satisfied customer after purchasing the language software and spending hours and hours studying it.  Not to mention the slight learning gap between meeting the Italian supermodel and completing study of the Italian language enough to be fluent in it.  Also disregarding the frequency that farm boys encounter Italian supermodels.   

That ad cracks me up everytime I see it.  "Good luck with that dude," I think when I see it. Haha.


This farm boy just wasted $200 and showed a supermodel that he can be an ___ in English AND Italian.  Don't you want to buy it?

How does a farm boy come into contact with an Italian supermodel for this interaction to take place?  For the sake of argument, let's say he's a farm boy in Italy -- Then what's he doing learning Italian if that's his own country?  Ok, so maybe it's a farm near Italy... How does he run into a supermodel working on a farm?  I guess in the world where farm boys can meet Italian supermodels and have time to go buy langague learning software, learn it, and then meet the supermodel again, in that world purchasing this software makes perfect sense.   

Just one chance to impress her?  He must have run into her at least twice for this to take place.  I don't think he knows what the situation is.  Why would I want to follow along behind someone like that and buy this software? 

And what's he doing out in the field with software?  Is he installing it on his computer out there in the field?   

Good luck dude.  He should start by learning "No!" "Get the ___ away from me!" and "You're under arrest," in Italian.  Maybe also "We don't allow... um, t-shirts... in this establishment... sir.   

[m19834]

And what's he doing out in the field with software?

Most tractors these days are equipped with auto pilot, computers with satellite internet, mini bars, refrigerators and microwaves (duh !!).  Some of them come with comfy cushion back seats, too, just in case they learn a new language on their computer and their one chance to impress the supermodels really pays off. 

Supermodels are aware of this; it's part of their training.  Most women are aware of this, actually (it's part of being a woman).  As a matter of fact, I am personally sitting in a farm boy's tractor right now ... in Portugal (that is why I am typing in Portuguese).  He purchased Rosetta Stone's Portuguese software and something inside of me just compelled me to go there.  I never thought about going to Portugal, and then one day I just felt compelled.  Rosetta Stone is powerful stuff.

*True story*

[Bob]

Hmmm.  Well that would explain all those guys with laptops sitting out in the fields I suppose.  They look very hopeful and keep scanning the horizon for something.