Last post wins!!!!!

[lostinidlewonder]

Yay I'm at the top of the page, great winning!!!!!

No... you just ignore the evidence, claim that everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant and the whole spiel starts again.

Wrong. If the answer is someone is ignorant like your ignorance toward modern piano pedagogy then it's a valid claim. Ignorance is a perfect answer to someone's small, little, closed mind. That's just logical. https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=68737.msg728891#msg728891

There's a big difference between thinking you're right... and being right.

There's also a difference between what you think and what you know, Mr thinker.

And I don't kick up a stink... it's just hard to argue with someone who has his head up his own arse, and who constantly has to prove to everyone how great he is, which great people taught him, that he's taught longer etc...

Lol we can all see who kicks up the stink, it's you when you cry and run away. Still waiting for you to quote me all those heaps of time you claim I've said famous people taught me lol. You can keep living in your little mind. I know your training is from a WA university, I wonder how many top class professors work there lol.

How about i quote all the times you've started trying to make things personal, not just with me but with other members?? Gosh we'll take up a lot of page space with that one. It's you who claimed a lot about me before I shoved the truth into your face, if that hurts you maybe don't be the one who first casts stones, you might have a better defense then. But it's you who started to make things personal then cried when you lost aim with at all that mud flinging.

This is fun, keep going   

[j_tour]

I judge pretty well, I win all the exchanges so i win and you constantly lose.

Sorry, person.

That was a staggeringly unconvincing "argument."

But, you managed to figure out how to type Aleph, and apparently you know the difference between aleph-null and the continuum (if you agree with the continuum hypothesis, and you should....arguably).

So....that's something....I guess.

But at no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.

[perfect_pitch]

You know what J_Tour... one day I hope we can meet up in real life and have a couple of beers.

When the subject dies down, we all try to move on - but he asserts his (assumed) dominance once again just so he can use it as a tangent to massage his ego and carry on the same pretentious crap he usually does.



How about you and I carry on the conversation in a civil manner... I'm sick of his yammering.

I know your training is from a WA university, I wonder how many top class professors work there lol.

Yeah, and despite just going to a "WA University", I made it in my career to have an on-going full-time job that pays me well enough to buy a house in the WA market, I'll be mortgage free by 45, and people have told me from around the world that I've inspired them to take up the piano. I'll happily be that any day of the year, instead of a condescending twat who has to continually assert how great he is.

Not bad for someone who only went to a "WA University".

[lostinidlewonder]

Sorry, person.

That was a staggeringly unconvincing "argument."

But, you managed to figure out how to type Aleph, and apparently you know the difference between aleph-null and the continuum (if you agree with the continuum hypothesis, and you should....arguably).

So....that's something....I guess.

But at no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought.

Are you taking the maths seriously? lol. Im not talking about the maths post im talking about other posts where we actively are debating something that makes sense. You do realize in this thread we don't always talk seriously, just look at all your posts here. The maths post was AI generated too, must be pretty powerful if you can't detect it is

[lostinidlewonder]

When the subject dies down, we all try to move on - but he asserts his (assumed) dominance once again just so he can use it as a tangent to massage his ego and carry on the same pretentious crap he usually does.

Lol what ego is there to massage on a message board of a pianoforum where there's a tiny audience? Gosh your logic is astoundingly hilarious.

Yeah, and despite just going to a "WA University", I made it in my career to have an on-going full-time job that pays me well enough to buy a house in the WA market, I'll be mortgage free by 45, and people have told me from around the world that I've inspired them to take up the piano. I'll happily be that any day of the year, instead of a condescending twat who has to continually assert how great he is.

Not bad for someone who only went to a "WA University".

Still waiting for you to quote ALL those times i showed off I had a famous teacher, where is it? You're lies and bs has no basis. The reason why I bring up the university is because YOU are making it personal, its nice huh when people throw that back in your face right? lol.

I bought my first house outright when I was in my 20s without a mortgage. You're going to call that showing off right but we have to hear about your financial plans right lol. It might sound condescending because when YOU make something personal and start that, you'll eventually find out others might have better achievements than you, I have a couple friends worth 100s of millions of dollars, there are always people who are more successful businessmen/women, better teachers, better this better that. My father met middle east royalty worth trillions upon trillions, so what are we really gloating about, to them we are homeless beggars no matter how much money we have. If you want to make things personal you're going to feel belittled here and there especially if your target is someone with some level of more than normal success.

[klavieronin]

My father met middle east royalty worth trillions upon trillions, …

Just out of curiosity, trillions upon trillions of what?

[perfect_pitch]

Still waiting for you to quote ALL those times i showed off I had a famous teacher, where is it? You're lies and bs has no basis.

Your constant condescension about me going to a WA University speaks volumes about how mediocre it was, and that you went to much better universities with better teachers.

If you seemingly look down on our city as being so piddly... why do you live here? And again, I wasn't the one that belittled your students... so someone needs to take a valium...

...or overdose on them - I don't care.

[lostinidlewonder]

Your constant condescension about me going to a WA University speaks volumes about how mediocre it was, and that you went to much better universities with better teachers.

Lol why lie man. It has been proven that was only said once you tried to bring in qualifications and teachers yourself, no one brought it up until you started it. Don't like that, then don't bring it up in the first place. Still waiting for you to quote all the famous teachers you said i was boasting about. Proves your lies cos you can't.

If you seemingly look down on our city as being so piddly... why do you live here?

Quote where I said that, it's just your imagination again.

p
And again, I wasn't the one that belittled your students... so someone needs to take a valium...

Who talked about belittling students except you, I think you have early onset senility.

...or overdose on them - I don't care.

Now now don't lose your temper lol.

[lostinidlewonder]

Just out of curiosity, trillions upon trillions of what?

Camels?

[perfect_pitch]

Who talked about belittling students except you

You did... you said you felt sorry for my students. It was your exact words... and if Nils hadn't altered the 'edit' function to allow all posts older than the last week to be edited - I'd have your exact quote.

You know you said it, I know you said it... and I'm sure other forums users remember seeing it.

You try and twist the truth to fit your narrative... meanwhile - I say what I say and I don't need to edit it for posterity.

[lostinidlewonder]

You did... you said you felt sorry for my students. It was your exact words...

You're living in fantasy  I've edited nothing.
I can logically see a hypothetical, I'd feel sorry for a student who you or anyone forced to read sheet music and made them to feel a failure or pushed them to give up music because they were told this the absolute only way to learn the piano "properly", whatever properly is supposed to mean, i dont believe there is one proper way at all since I successfully teach with multiple approaches at a high level. But I don't believe I brought up this hypothetical, even though it makes perfect sense.

What I did I say is you cannot satisfy 100% of the students you teach, no one can. This extended from the debate that you said sheet music is the proper and only way to teach piano correctly. I claimed it's not and plenty of ways to learn otherwise. Those students that leave you often would leave because sheet music is not engaging enough to maintain their interests. Modern piano pedagogy confirms this. I never would have said I just feel sorry for your students as a whole, if you think that you've read wrong. I critique with reason not being dumb.

No teacher can have a teaching product that 100% students will feel totally engaged and interested with. And sheet music is not immune to the problem of boring the heck out of students, in fact if you did any research on the topic like I have you'd see more and more self learning students are learning without totally relying on sheet music. I'm not disparaging sheet music since I teach it to and to the highest levels, I however understand it's not for everyone and I know multiple ways to teach piano without sheets.

I invented even my own reading system beyond what anyone sees online which engages students and sets them up to learn proper sheet music too but that's not the debate. You disparaged falling notes system which is another system which is excellent and teaches millions. You just don't want to look past your traditionalists nose on this issue and this is the problem you and I have. So you understand we don't come to an agreement on this but if you keep bringing it up like you did recently again you're going to deal with my push back. Don't like it don't bring it up, pretty simple.

[j_tour]

Will you people just shut the eff up, with your ChatGPT and your boarding school rivalry?

And for the record, I did my undergraduate degree at New York University, where I majored in buggery.  Under some of the top men and women in the field.

But some of us are trying to learn.

About the keyboard stylings of one Wesley Willis.

[perfect_pitch]

What I did I say is you cannot satisfy 100% of the students you teach, no one can.

I never disputed that... I also never said I could satisfy 100% of them. You however believed that students of mine quite because I thrust upon them the need to read sheet music.

This extended from the debate that you said sheet music is the proper and only way to teach piano correctly.

I didn't say it was the only way... I said it was the best way to give them a logical way to understand the language of music that gives them autonomy and hot having to rely on playing by ear and making mistakes fruitlessly until they stumble on the right 'sound'. I also said that playing using those falling notes forces you to being totally reliant on muscle memory... and while playing Mary Had a little lamb from muscle memory is easy... playing Fur Elise (especially the B section) from memory is really difficult... and that's only grade 5.

sheet music is not immune to the problem of boring the heck out of students

Well, that depends on the teacher. There are many teachers across the world who keep their students engaged with sheet music. They teach them a carefully crafted method to read and decipher the dotes and lines on the page, so that when a student goes home after the lesson and forgets what the notes is in their memory - they have a logical way to work it out for themselves; inspiring them to understand that their success in reading music comes down to just taking a couple of seconds to look at the page.

You just don't want to look past your traditionalists nose on this issue and this is the problem you and I have. Don't like it don't bring it up, pretty simple.

I DIDN'T bring it up. YOU DID. I tried to get on with the conversation and you got pedantic about the use of the word 'little' like some Grammar Nazi. And once again - who was it who brought up the falling notes system just then??

YOU DID!

I stopped caring about that debate when that forum thread whittled away in 2023. You're the one who needs to move on. Maybe you're just jealous that I've got a great full-time career teaching people how to read sheet music, and despite going to a "WA University", I still made a success of myself.

But some of us are trying to learn.

About the keyboard stylings of one Wesley Willis

Can't help you on that one... sorry.

[klavieronin]

I bought my first house outright when I was in my 20s without a mortgage.

Nobody is buying a house outright, without a mortgage in their 20s on a piano teacher’s income (unless you’re like 80 years old)! What were you doing before you started teaching piano?

[lostinidlewonder]

Nobody is buying a house outright, without a mortgage in their 20s on a piano teacher’s income (unless you’re like 80 years old)! What were you doing before you started teaching piano?

Concert pianist and business. I've taught piano since I was 13 because teaching has always been a deep interest of mine but it wasn't the my sole source of income. I have a colleague who established a music school with teachers teaching multiple students at the venue and she made great money at a young age too, so we have to see outside of the box of just one on one teachers. I also knew some teachers in Germany who taught multiple students at a time earning great money per hour for a music teacher.

[lostinidlewonder]

I never disputed that... I also never said I could satisfy 100% of them. You however believed that students of mine quite because I thrust upon them the need to read sheet music.

Yes they do quit because of just that, have you not taught enough students to realise that occurs? You proclaim you only teach with sheets, well it's only logical this situation will occur, unless you have your head in a hole.

I didn't say it was the only way... I said it was the best way to give them a logical way to understand the language of music that gives them autonomy and hot having to rely on playing by ear and making mistakes fruitlessly until they stumble on the right 'sound'. I also said that playing using those falling notes forces you to being totally reliant on muscle memory... and while playing Mary Had a little lamb from muscle memory is easy... playing Fur Elise (especially the B section) from memory is really difficult... and that's only grade 5.

You said it's the "proper" way
Case in point
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=68737.msg728845#msg728845
"You do what you want and see where that gets you... I'm going to continue teaching the proper way."

and talk sh*t about any other method, we just have to look at this thread as a whole:
https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=68737

You also exhibit lack of understanding of the falling notes system, users actually see patterns like in sheet music sight reading, its not solely muscular memory.

Well, that depends on the teacher. There are many teachers across the world who keep their students engaged with sheet music. They teach them a carefully crafted method to read and decipher the dotes and lines on the page, so that when a student goes home after the lesson and forgets what the notes is in their memory - they have a logical way to work it out for themselves; inspiring them to understand that their success in reading music comes down to just taking a couple of seconds to look at the page.

No it doesn't depend on the teacher, are you saying you can make sheetmusic engaging for 100% of students you come across? This is a simple question which you keep trying to say you can. It's just fantasy thinking. If you can do that you're a brilliant teacher the world has never seen and you should be worth millions, modern piano pedagogy and research says that's fantasy thinking though.

I DIDN'T bring it up. YOU DID. I tried to get on with the conversation and you got pedantic about the use of the word 'little' like some Grammar Nazi. And once again - who was it who brought up the falling notes system just then??

You're a real fool with bad memory.

https://www.pianostreet.com/smf/index.php?topic=51107.msg739410#msg739410
"You seem to think it's so easy for a machine to teach someone how to play piano? Or are you just saying that because you have to peddle that Pianovision nonsense?"

How about lets see from there, did anyone make anything personal before that? No, it was you who decided to after i argued AI is out for piano teachers jobs (and practically all intellectual jobs). You had to take it to a personal level right there, go ahead and see if I disparaged your work before that, no I generalised that AI is a tool teachers will have to use or they will fall behind. You just got angry for no reason and had no other retort but to go personal then cried when I engaged.

I stopped caring about that debate when that forum thread whittled away in 2023. You're the one who needs to move on. Maybe you're just jealous that I've got a great full-time career teaching people how to read sheet music, and despite going to a "WA University", I still made a success of myself.

Lol that's illogical. I don't cry about teaching sight reading is bad i teach it at a high level. But it's not the only way, you instead say it's the only proper way and all else is beneath it, we just have to look at the thread I posted above and numerous times to see your short sightednes and closed mindedness.

[perfect_pitch]

Nobody is buying a house outright, without a mortgage in their 20s on a piano teacher’s income (unless you’re like 80 years old)! What were you doing before you started teaching piano?

Yeah... I'm starting to smell something... what is it? It seems to be the faint aroma of bullsh...

No it doesn't depend on the teacher, are you saying you can make sheetmusic engaging for 100% of students you come across? This is a simple question which you keep trying to say you can.

Again... never said that - YOU ASSUMED. I can keep most of them engaged with sheet music, but there are students who realise that practice needs to be put in to get where they want and not everybody learns Fur Elise in 3 months.

There are students who maybe financially can't afford 2 different instrument lessons and therefore choose one of them (but are still taught to read the music through their other teacher).

There are students who want to play, but in Year 11 & 12 find their academic work hard to stay on top of and don't find a lot of time to play the piano.

I've said this many times, and I've said it gives them the autonomy to understand how music is written.

You seem to assume way too much of me. It's getting quite sad actually because it makes you look bad.

you should know me if someone throws fire my way, Ill pour petrol onto it relentlessly.

Need some of this???

[lostinidlewonder]

Yeah... I'm starting to smell something... what is it? It seems to be the faint aroma of bullsh...

Because you failed to do it?

Again... never said that - YOU ASSUMED. I can keep most of them engaged with sheet music, but there are students who realise that practice needs to be put in to get where they want and not everybody learns Fur Elise in 3 months.

The fact is you said sight reading is the only "proper" way to learn piano. So what about those who are not engaged with it? You obviously can't help them right. Wow why does other methods help them then? Logically this crushes your assumption that reading sheets is the only proper way. You have no standing on that yet constantly disparage other methods.

There are students who maybe financially can't afford 2 different instrument lessons and therefore choose one of them (but are still taught to read the music through their other teacher).

You are jabbering off into oblivion, students quit piano lessons because they hate sheet music, what do we do with those students then? You obviously can't do anything, but still proclaim sheet music is the only "proper" way. So then those students are failures in your mind, that's sad.

There are students who want to play, but in Year 11 & 12 find their academic work hard to stay on top of and don't find a lot of time to play the piano.

Yes but that doesn't account for all the students who hate sheet music.

I've said this many times, and I've said it gives them the autonomy to understand how music is written.

And still there are millions of people studying music who can't stand sheets.

You seem to assume way too much of me. It's getting quite sad actually because it makes you look bad.

Only in your own closed, small, little, narrow mind.

Need some of this???

No i can thoroughly burn you alive with any debate. I notice you can't contend with any of my points, its an overwhelming victory to me. You're losing lol. And that quote of mine was in response to you making things personal, bring it I say I can play on any field and crush you.

[klavieronin]

Concert pianist and business. I've taught piano since I was 13 because teaching has always been a deep interest of mine but it wasn't the my sole source of income.

Well that hardly clarifies things. Most concert pianists I’ve met have to supplement their income by teaching because they don’t earn enough to support themselves from performing/recording alone, even reasonably successful ones. So it would be surprising to me if concertising was what allowed you to buy your house.
So I’m guessing it was your business activities that were your main source of income. Care to elaborate on what kind of business you were involved in? It must have been pretty successful, why give it up for piano teaching?
And if it was because piano was just your passion or whatever, why did you stop being a concert pianist? So many questions. Also, where did you perform? Did you ever play with any big name orchestras or conductors? Did you ever make any recordings?

Sorry for all the questions, I’m just a curious person.

[lostinidlewonder]

Well that hardly clarifies things. Most concert pianists I’ve met have to supplement their income by teaching because they don’t earn enough to support themselves from performing/recording alone, even reasonably successful ones. So it would be surprising to me if concertising was what allowed you to buy your house.

Sold out practically every concert I did. The problem with most concert pianists is that they do not understand the business of setting up concerts, they just know how to play the piano well and rely on management. I can still sell out any concert I want to do. I have talked about how to sell concerts on here over the years too and in private to aspiring concerting artists. Successful artists are not only those winning the worlds hardest competitions but often are astute businessmen/women.

So I’m guessing it was your business activities that were your main source of income.

It was a portion of my earnings, I did over 20 concerts a year when I was full time concerting and on average earning 10kAUD per concert, some earning close to 30k after costs. This was over 2 decades ago so you can apply inflation to make sense of it for todays dollar. Housing back then in Western Australia was quite cheap, my houses I own have all multiplied in value since then, especially during Covid, but I also sold homes around 10 years before covid which was a boom period for housing. As you might know renting out homes you own can be lucrative too, I've been a landlord since my later 20s too.

Care to elaborate on what kind of business you were involved in? It must have been pretty successful, why give it up for piano teaching?

Who says I've given any of that up? I did many businesses from renovating and flipping homes, to buying and selling online, fixing electronics and selling them, crypto currency, stock market, etc. I studied Electrical Engineering and Computer Science at university too, so that is why I have deep interest in tech. And of course naturally how tech and piano education can create modern piano pedagogical tools.

And if it was because piano was just your passion or whatever, why did you stop being a concert pianist?

Concert pianist life is hectic and the challenges in the business of setting up concerts and the reason to do it waned for me. You need to be a particular person to want to do concerting forever, you need to be very interested in the YOU product and the act of giving music to the public through your own playing and concert presentation. I was deeply interested in a particular style of concerting which was to talk and give presentation revealing the meaning to the pieces and composers lives, something that musicians did very little of back then and it's what made me stand out and why selling at venues when I returned became easier and easier.

Also the lifestyle of living in out of your bag and travelling although it can be fun after a while the polish rubbed off for me and I preferred to be around my family and friends. After doing it successfully and knowing I could do it again at any time I moved to other musical challenges, particularly teaching has been a deep interest of mine and I focused a lot on that as my educational contribution to Pianostreet for the 20 or so years should prove. Concerting more full time was a culmination of me studying with professor Roger Woodward who is arguably Australia's greatest pianist that ever lived, now lets see PP cry that I'm boasting. I did solo concerts before I studied with him, my first solo concert was at 17 and I sold out the hall of ~1000 seats.

So many questions. Also, where did you perform? Did you ever play with any big name orchestras or conductors? Did you ever make any recordings?

I performed through Australia, Germany and an odd place Turkey since I had family there and wanted to explore the country (although selling concerts there was with much smaller venues and more difficult because of language barriers). I never did recordings because there was no money to make there and I also have musical philosophy reasons for not doing that, that's not to say I had the opportunity to do so many times. I didn't play with orchestras because I focused on solo concerts with the style I mentioned before. There is much more money to be made as a solo artist.

Sorry for all the questions, I’m just a curious person.

It's fine if you private message me we can continue it.

[klavieronin]

Wait! You’re telling me that your first solo concert sold out a 1000 seat venue and you toured internationally regularly selling out concerts, earning between $10-30k per concert? That surely would have made you one of, if not the most, illustrious Australian pianist of your generation. And you decided to pack that in so you could be a landlord, renovate and flip houses, learn the stock market and trade cryptocurrencies. All the while getting degrees in both computer science and electrical engineering? And you did this while maintaining a roster of regular and loyal piano students.
What are you, a Marvel character?

[lostinidlewonder]

Yes my first concert was in my hometown in a newly build concert hall. I had just finished highschool and sold every single ticket, many from my school attended, many from around my hometown. My concerts there was and still are the most successful concerts ever held there for piano solo.

I sold out concerts at the same venues where my teacher didn't even sell as much. You seem to think Fame is the only driving force for concert selling, you're quite mistaken.

I didn't pack it all in to do something else, maybe you should learn to read more closely. If you knew anything about concerting you'd realise it requires a certain personality and desire to do it long term. I did it for around 4 years and had enough. I had the privilege to make choices in my life others couldn't do.

My achievements although not normal are by far not as great as others I know. One of my friends sold equipment to engineering firms in Australia and is worth over 100 million dollars. He also owns very expensive buildings in the city that I'd not be able to afford. Do you think all people who are musicians should be a certain way? You do realise this world is much more various than that.

So I'm unsure why you think my achievement is so wild, it's nothing special for those who look beyond specialising in one subject. My father is much greater than I am and his father was even greater who came out of poverty in China to become a wealthy Singapore businessman. So what's the issue? I come from a family of high achievers, it's in our blood. Investing knowledge wasn't solely from my own brain, I had plenty of advice from those close to me who I trust. I have connections in Germany as I have family there and one in particular who is a close family friend who has connections at many concert venues in Germany, he also has money in F1 racing and owns is own telecommunication company worth an eye watering amount. I also have connection with famous German movie stars through my great cousin. So who you know  in your networking and how you expand that is key for all business, otherwise you can just have good ideas and no one cares.

[klavieronin]

I’m a nobody and I’ve done nothing noteworthy in my life. The only reason I’m not homeless is because my father left me a small inheritance and I live with my girlfriend in an apartment owned by her parents and we pay no rent. Anybody who has achieved any measure of success in their life is impressive to me. So be honest now, is there any stretching or colouring of the truth going on here? I always try to take people at their word but your story just seems so incredible that it’s just a little difficult to accept at face value.

[lostinidlewonder]

I don't think I need to actually prove it with evidence so all you can take is my word which doesn't mean much on the internet. So you can literally disregard everything I said no problems. I'm 44 years old, I've worked hard to earn money since I was 13 years old. Even till today I often find myself doing 90+ hour work weeks which is even more hours that what I did when I was younger. Through the lens of my musical career I am a rare combination of computer engineering (albeit it is weaker than my music education understanding), an expert of traditional and modern piano pedagogy as well experience of being a concert pianists. I actually don't personally know any other musician like that. So I guess looking at me as a musician the skill combinations I have is quite rare and I can see can be unbelievable for some. It's also quite unbelievable I've provided free piano advice on pianostreet for 20 years too, so I guess I am an anomaly in that regard too. Things can seem quite unlikely but aren't we all unique in our own ways?

[frodo10]

I’m a nobody and I’ve done nothing noteworthy in my life. The only reason I’m not homeless is because my father left me a small inheritance and I live with my girlfriend in an apartment owned by her parents and we pay no rent. Anybody who has achieved any measure of success in their life is impressive to me. So be honest now, is there any stretching or colouring of the truth going on here? I always try to take people at their word but your story just seems so incredible that it’s just a little difficult to accept at face value.

 

You are NOT a nobody!  I can vouch for that.  If you are a nobody, then we ALL are nobodies.

[frodo10]

I don't think I need to actually prove it with evidence so all you can take is my word which doesn't mean much on the internet. So you can literally disregard everything I said no problems. I'm 44 years old, I've worked hard to earn money since I was 13 years old. Even till today I often find myself doing 90+ hour work weeks which is even more hours that what I did when I was younger. Through the lens of my musical career I am a rare combination of computer engineering (albeit it is weaker than my music education understanding), an expert of traditional and modern piano pedagogy as well experience of being a concert pianists. I actually don't personally know any other musician like that. So I guess looking at me as a musician the skill combinations I have is quite rare and I can see can be unbelievable for some. It's also quite unbelievable I've provided free piano advice on pianostreet for 20 years too, so I guess I am an anomaly in that regard too. Things can seem quite unlikely but aren't we all unique in our own ways?

You do not need to prove anything.  90 hours a week!  I maybe did 50 hours a week for 3 weeks in a row when I worked and this was rare.  My work ethic was always good, but I am not known for long hours. Retired at age of 57, now about to turn 67.  What have I accomplished in the last 10 years?  So far I have been able to keep myself in fairly good health and my mind semi-alert.  That's about it.  As Kramer said on Seinfeld: "Isn't there something more to life?' Well, let me clue you in on something, there isn't!"

[klavieronin]

I don't think I need to actually prove it with evidence so all you can take is my word which doesn't mean much on the internet. So you can literally disregard everything I said no problems. I'm 44 years old, I've worked hard to earn money since I was 13 years old. Even till today I often find myself doing 90+ hour work weeks which is even more hours that what I did when I was younger. Through the lens of my musical career I am a rare combination of computer engineering (albeit it is weaker than my music education understanding), an expert of traditional and modern piano pedagogy as well experience of being a concert pianists. I actually don't personally know any other musician like that. So I guess looking at me as a musician the skill combinations I have is quite rare and I can see can be unbelievable for some. It's also quite unbelievable I've provided free piano advice on pianostreet for 20 years too, so I guess I am an anomaly in that regard too. Things can seem quite unlikely but aren't we all unique in our own ways?

No you don’t have to prove anything to anybody but you volunteered that information. You can’t expect people not to have questions.
To be honest with you, it’s not the money or the success that I find so incredible, I know multimillionaires too, it’s comments like this;

Sold out practically every concert I did. … I can still sell out any concert I want to do.

I know you claimed to have some extraordinary marketing acumen and if we’re talking about small local concerts in small venues then sure, I’d have no problem believing that, but you’re talking about 1000 seat venues, at 17 no less, for your first solo concert sold concert! And this was over 2 decades ago and you claim to still be able to sell out concerts today having not performed in 20+ years. I really hate to say it but this just seems delusional to me.
Obviously I could be totally wrong about this and everything you’re saying could be 100% true but I just don’t buy it.

And I’m not the only one. I fed your previous post into one of your AI friends and simply asked “What are your thoughts on this?” Here you are represented by the letter A. Here is part of the response;

Points of Ambiguity/Potential Skepticism (from an external perspective):

Concert Earnings: While "A" provides numbers, earnings of 10k-30k AUD after costs per self-promoted solo classical concert, 20+ times a year, without major management, record deals, or a consistent international competition circuit presence, are exceptionally high for almost any classical artist, even two decades ago. This amount would put them among the very top tier of classical performers globally, many of whom have significant management, tour globally, and have major record deals. This is the primary point that would raise an eyebrow for anyone familiar with the classical music industry.
Lack of Traditional Milestones: The absence of recordings, orchestra collaborations, or specific major venue names (beyond "Australia," "Germany," "Turkey") is unusual for someone claiming such high-level concert success. While "A" explains why (money, focus on solo), these are often key markers of a high-earning, "successful" concert career in the traditional sense.
"Jack of All Trades, Master of All?": The sheer number and diversity of successful business ventures alongside a demanding concert career could stretch credulity for some. While admirable, it might make one wonder which activity was truly the "main" driver of wealth, or if the "concert pianist" aspect was more of a passion/sideline compared to the other lucrative ventures. "A" clarifies that concerting was a "portion" of earnings, which mitigates this.
Unverifiable Claims: Many of the claims (e.g., specific earnings, "sold out practically every concert," "can still sell out any concert I want to do") are difficult for an external party to verify without more specific details (e.g., names of specific venues, dates, or public records).

So forgive me for being skeptical.

[perfect_pitch]

So forgive me for being skeptical.

Oh don't worry - you're not the only one thinking that.

I also love the part where he said:

I don't think I need to actually prove it with evidence so all you can take is my word

I'm not believing a thing he says now. The claims just got more and more grandiose and rather unbelievable. He almost seemed to elevate them each time...

[frodo10]

Could be some elements of a "tall tale" here.  Just saw the movie "Big Fish" about a father that tells his son tall tales about his (the father's) life.  Maybe there is a little of this going on here.  The point of the film was - so what if there are some exaggerations?  The father was a good person in spite of some embellishments.

[klavieronin]

You are NOT a nobody!  I can vouch for that.  If you are a nobody, then we ALL are nobodies.

Well certainly wasn’t intending to insult anyone
Maybe “nobody” was a little too much. Let’s go with “very tiny somebody” or perhaps “nobody in particular”.

[klavieronin]

I also love the part where he said:

I don't think I need to actually prove it with evidence so all you can take is my word

Well it would seem entirely appropriate to employ Hitchen’s razor here;

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence".

[lostinidlewonder]

Oh don't worry - you're not the only one thinking that.

I also love the part where he said:

I'm not believing a thing he says now. The claims just got more and more grandiose and rather unbelievable. He almost seemed to elevate them each time...

You expect me to show documents showing the homes I own? My bank statements? My crypto wallets? Scan and post all media about my concerting? lol. Yeah ok. Your narrow minded little mind would only believe what it wants to believe even if the truth was staring you in the face like with many of our debates,  so it's no surprise your reaction.

I was asked a probing question to which I answered in detail, I don't now need to jump through hoops to actually prove any of this. Why don't you post all of your documents showing your university graduation and attendance over the years? Please post your home loan details too and bank statements. Do you think it would be worth your time or even appropriate to do such things on a pianoforum like this?

[lostinidlewonder]

You do not need to prove anything.  90 hours a week!  I maybe did 50 hours a week for 3 weeks in a row when I worked and this was rare.  My work ethic was always good, but I am not known for long hours. Retired at age of 57, now about to turn 67.  What have I accomplished in the last 10 years?  So far I have been able to keep myself in fairly good health and my mind semi-alert.  That's about it.  As Kramer said on Seinfeld: "Isn't there something more to life?' Well, let me clue you in on something, there isn't!"

Don't get me wrong I often take holidays too, we live near south-east Asia, in fact its closer to fly to Singapore than it is to go across my own country. I find myself currently doing 90 hour weeks if my app has a major update on its way, or we are working on something that needs to be pushed quickly. It's not all the time but it happens in waves.

Could be some elements of a "tall tale" here.  Just saw the movie "Big Fish" about a father that tells his son tall tales about his (the father's) life.  Maybe there is a little of this going on here.  The point of the film was - so what if there are some exaggerations?  The father was a good person in spite of some embellishments.

I could go into more detail, the 20+ concerts a year rate reduced down significantly in my last year and a half of doing concerting because I was planning to focus on other things. I really don't have the energy to describe every single detail, I'm not writing a biography here!

In any case what am I actually embellishing? My point about those much more successful than me is my story anything compared to that? It is miniscule and meagre, but it's a different journey! Everything is relative.

[lostinidlewonder]

Well it would seem entirely appropriate to employ Hitchen’s razor here;

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence".

Exactly so no one has anything to really say then do they? If you use your logic for me to prove it would require I divulge a number of private details which in all honesty is not something thats necessary for a tiny piano forum, or for strangers who I know nothing about. What benefit would it have for me? I already sell an app on the Meta store which was number 2 on the charts, that sold millions of dollars with tens of millions of dollars from Meta supporting it. If you guys can't deduce anything its not my responsibility to show private details to prove anything lol.

[lostinidlewonder]

No you don’t have to prove anything to anybody but you volunteered that information. You can’t expect people not to have questions.

I volunteered it? Wasn't it you who asked me a question because you are so curious? That is illogical of you.

To be honest with you, it’s not the money or the success that I find so incredible, I know multimillionaires too, it’s comments like this; Sold out practically every concert I did. … I can still sell out any concert I want to do.

I don't expect you to understand the business of selling concerts. Most people think its just hire a venue, post some advertising and it magically fills the seats, or rely on fame to sell the seats.

I know you claimed to have some extraordinary marketing acumen and if we’re talking about small local concerts in small venues then sure, I’d have no problem believing that, but you’re talking about 1000 seat venues, at 17 no less, for your first solo concert sold concert!

Well I had finished highschool, many people in my school knew I was a pianist and heard me throughout school years play. When I did a concert hundreds from my school and their family supported my first concert. We also have strong connections throughout the community, I did radio media, the concert hall did preview concerts events were we sold tickets to groups that were interested in what events where happening in the new concert hall. I visited social clubs, churches, other schools, played for them and sold tickets there and then. I gave tickets to VIPs who then brought along many other paying ticket audience members with them. I gave tickets to the large newspaper companies around the place who in turn advertised me and also brought more people (internet wasn't that big back then). If you cannot logically deduce this process works then I don't know what you want, a video of me doing all this 25 odd years ago? Honestly this discussion is not that important, I am offering you free insight into how its done, take it or leave it, honestly its no skin off my nose lol!

And this was over 2 decades ago and you claim to still be able to sell out concerts today having not performed in 20+ years. I really hate to say it but this just seems delusional to me.

Well im not here to change your mind, its when people are stuck in a type of thinking that they really are stuck in life. Maybe its why you think of yourself as a nobody because you already put so many barriers before you before you even try? If i wanted to do a concert in my own city id sell it out no problems at all. I still have people asking me to do concerts, I run social media groups with access to some 400k people in my city. I run the music teachers guild social media with over 4k music teachers in Western Australia. I have numerous contacts in the performance industry still here in my own city. I can easily sell a concert and fill the seats, I still help get the word out for those who do music events in my town next to my own busy schedule. Maybe learn to think outside your own self contained barriers and you might see some amazing opportunities that you just let pass you by.

Obviously I could be totally wrong about this and everything you’re saying could be 100% true but I just don’t buy it.

Am I supposed to convince you? Am I supposed to be upset that you don't buy it? It is more amusing to me than anything else because I've lived it and know its true. I'm not sure why someone would want to lie about it lol. I'm busy with the future rather than caring about what I did in the past in any case. YOU asked me about it, now don't ask me to jump through hoops to prove it and convince you, you do what you want with the info, its no bother to me if you believe it or not because like I said, I've lived it.

And I’m not the only one. I fed your previous post into one of your AI friends and simply asked “What are your thoughts on this?” Here you are represented by the letter A. Here is part of the response;

Points of Ambiguity/Potential Skepticism (from an external perspective):

Concert Earnings: While "A" provides numbers, earnings of 10k-30k AUD after costs per self-promoted solo classical concert, 20+ times a year, without major management, record deals, or a consistent international competition circuit presence, are exceptionally high for almost any classical artist, even two decades ago. This amount would put them among the very top tier of classical performers globally, many of whom have significant management, tour globally, and have major record deals. This is the primary point that would raise an eyebrow for anyone familiar with the classical music industry.
Lack of Traditional Milestones: The absence of recordings, orchestra collaborations, or specific major venue names (beyond "Australia," "Germany," "Turkey") is unusual for someone claiming such high-level concert success. While "A" explains why (money, focus on solo), these are often key markers of a high-earning, "successful" concert career in the traditional sense.
"Jack of All Trades, Master of All?": The sheer number and diversity of successful business ventures alongside a demanding concert career could stretch credulity for some. While admirable, it might make one wonder which activity was truly the "main" driver of wealth, or if the "concert pianist" aspect was more of a passion/sideline compared to the other lucrative ventures. "A" clarifies that concerting was a "portion" of earnings, which mitigates this.
Unverifiable Claims: Many of the claims (e.g., specific earnings, "sold out practically every concert," "can still sell out any concert I want to do") are difficult for an external party to verify without more specific details (e.g., names of specific venues, dates, or public records).

So forgive me for being skeptical.

Did the AI say its IMPOSSIBLE? It says its unlikely to which I totally agree. I don't know anyone who has achieved what I have in the way I have. I've paved my own pathway through life and still do today innovating and creating new pathways for modern pedagogy. This is what I am proud of doing. Yes it is extremely rare, but its not impossible.

It's also unlikely that my app would have been the number 2 best seller on the Meta store but it made it. It's also unlikely that they would have invested millions of dollars in our project in advertising and media and flew me over business class from Australia to the USA to attend, but it happened. Please remain sceptical, that's healthy in this world, but to think success is impossible limits your own potential, you need to aim for the stars to hit the moon.

[perfect_pitch]

Why don't you post all of your documents showing your university graduation and attendance over the years? Please post your home loan details too and bank statements. Do you think it would be worth your time or even appropriate to do such things on a pianoforum like this?

I'm not the one making elaborate stories of how many multiple houses I own, or how I was supposedly performing sell-out shows from a young age. People are questioning YOUR words and claims, not mine.

Well it would seem entirely appropriate to employ Hitchen’s razor here;

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence".

Seems like the right thing to do here.

[lostinidlewonder]

I'm not the one making elaborate stories of how many multiple houses I own, or how I was supposedly performing sell-out shows from a young age. People are questioning YOUR words and claims, not mine.

And they have the right to question it, it is afterall not normal achievement. I have done all of it and know it and have used that experience for my future, my current work which is even rarer than being a successful concert pianist or owning houses should be proof of that. My story is a rare and unique one and I'm proud of that, even though you won't have me boasting about it. It was asked of me here so here it is. I challenge you to find any mention of it elsewhere.

But still you saying you own your own house and have a university degree in piano, we just have to believe that because we have no evidence. If we treat every interaction online with doubt then is that going to help us? Why not just contend with what is written.

Seems like the right thing to do here.

Yes it does, even your rebuttals are worth zero in terms of evidence. We are not here to provide evidence, even though its a fact I've provided more evidence than anyone else here, so I'm ahead in that department.

[klavieronin]

I volunteered it? Wasn't it you who asked me a question because you are so curious? That is illogical of you.

Okay but let’s not forget that this whole thing started with your claim to have bought a house outright, without a mortgage in your 20s. Nobody asked for that information. And having heard you talk about how you’ve been a piano teacher since the age of 13, naturally I had questions.

I don't expect you to understand the business of selling concerts. Most people think its just hire a venue, post some advertising and it magically fills the seats, or rely on fame to sell the seats.

Surely this is a straw man. I know if I wanted to be a concert artist the first thing I’d do is get a manager. Are you suggesting that most concert pianists never thought to get a manager. And any manager worth their paycheque would surely be aware of the promotional tactics you’ve just listed.

Well I had finished highschool, many people in my school knew I was a pianist and heard me throughout school years play. When I did a concert hundreds from my school and their family supported my first concert. We also have strong connections throughout the community, I did radio media, the concert hall did preview concerts events were we sold tickets to groups that were interested in what events where happening in the new concert hall. I visited social clubs, churches, other schools, played for them and sold tickets there and then. I gave tickets to VIPs who then brought along many other paying ticket audience members with them. I gave tickets to the large newspaper companies around the place who in turn advertised me and also brought more people (internet wasn't that big back then). If you cannot logically deduce this process works then I don't know what you want, a video of me doing all this 25 odd years ago? Honestly this discussion is not that important, I am offering you free insight into how its done, take it or leave it, honestly its no skin off my nose lol!

One concert, fine. And perhaps you could sell out another concert in your hometown where people know who you are, but you claimed to be selling out 20+ concerts a year for 4 years and touring internationally. Your schoolmates and hometown residents weren’t following you around the country and overseas for 20 concerts a year. I’m pretty sure of that.

I run social media groups with access to some 400k people in my city. I run the music teachers guild social media with over 4k music teachers in Western Australia. I have numerous contacts in the performance industry still here in my own city. I can easily sell a concert and fill the seats, I still help get the word out for those who do music events in my town next to my own busy schedule.

I hate to break it to you but adding to your list of achievements and areas of expertise isn’t doing much for the credibility of your story.

Am I supposed to convince you? Am I supposed to be upset that you don't buy it? It is more amusing to me than anything else because I've lived it and know its true. I'm not sure why someone would want to lie about it lol. I'm busy with the future rather than caring about what I did in the past in any case. YOU asked me about it, now don't ask me to jump through hoops to prove it and convince you, you do what you want with the info, its no bother to me if you believe it or not because like I said, I've lived it.

Exactly, and that makes it all the more puzzling why you would keep replying, adding to the details of your story as if to loan it more credibility. If it’s not important to you that anyone believes your story then I’d recommend just letting go. The joke’s on us if it’s all true.

Did the AI say its IMPOSSIBLE? It says its unlikely to which I totally agree. I don't know anyone who has achieved what I have in the way I have. I've paved my own pathway through life and still do today innovating and creating new pathways for modern pedagogy. This is what I am proud of doing. Yes it is extremely rare, but its not impossible.

Yes I agree that it’s not impossible but extremely unlikely and the lack of supporting evidence just makes it unreasonable for any rational person to simply accept. If that’s fine with you then just let it go. Who cares if a few plebs on the internet don’t believe you are who you say you are, right? But the more you reply, the more achievements you and to your resume, to more famous and influential connections you claim to have, the less believable the story becomes.

You don’t have a prove anything, you don’t have to reveal your identity, and believe it or not, you don’t always have to get the last word in either - though history has shown this is somewhat of challenge for you 

I would love for you to prove me wrong, I really would but given how much time you spend criticising and insulting people on this forum it’s understandable that you want to keep your anonymity. Yes you offer a lot of advice too but let’s not pretend you aren’t the controversial figure that everyone here knows you are.

Also, just to be absolutely clear, I’m not suggesting that your story is a complete fabrication. I am however skeptical that it hasn’t been stretched and massaged into something more extraordinary than it actually is. A little exaggeration here, a small omission there, can paint a very different picture.

[j_tour]

students quit piano lessons because they hate sheet music, what do we do with those students then?

Terminate them with extreme prejudice?

Musical illiteracy is not the way.

Not if one wishes to communicate in a concise manner with other musicians in a studio or on stage.

Many guitarists manage by just earing their way through some trivial or even complicated bits of music.

But damn hell if one tries to talk shop with any of them or concisely write out a few bars of some vamp or tag ending in Eb or something. 

As in Susskind's "The Theoretical Minimum" series on physics, it's a sine qua non. 

Reading and understanding notation is indeed the bare minimum one needs to be a literate and compliant musician.

Kids who don't "get it" should be killed to make way for more complete musicians.

And that is why I don't teach kids.  QED.

[lostinidlewonder]

Okay but let’s not forget that this whole thing started with your claim to have bought a house outright, without a mortgage in your 20s. Nobody asked for that information. And having heard you talk about how you’ve been a piano teacher since the age of 13, naturally I had questions.

Maybe you didn't read everything that culminated to that point, but it was PP who brought up home ownership.

Surely this is a straw man. I know if I wanted to be a concert artist the first thing I’d do is get a manager. Are you suggesting that most concert pianists never thought to get a manager. And any manager worth their paycheque would surely be aware of the promotional tactics you’ve just listed.

How is it a strawman it is precisely related to the discussion, hiring a manager without understanding the business side yourself usually leads nowhere. This is where your comment reflects more of an outsider’s speculation than experience within the field. Any aspiring concert artist who just hires a manager will have practically no success, that is why you don't see waves of university graduates who play excellent making a concert living. That is why as you already said, there are concert pianists who cannot live off their concerting earnings. If you are interested you can see how self promotion can be done highly effectively and any concert musician would be wise to understand it rather than just hiring management to deal with it. I honestly don't think you are interested in this business however so I don't think its necessary to go into super detail about it even though I have given some insights already.

One concert, fine. And perhaps you could sell out another concert in your hometown where peope know who you are, but you claimed to be selling out 20+ concerts a year for 4 years and touring internationally. Your schoolmates and hometown residents weren’t following you around the country and overseas for 20 concerts a year. I’m pretty sure of that.

You’ve moved the goalposts. First you doubted my initial concert selling 1000 tickets. I explained how it happened and you dismissed it casually. Now you want 20 more examples? I’m not going to list every connection or strategy I used. I’ve shared plenty already. If that’s not enough for you, nothing will be.

I hate to break it to you but adding to your list of achievements and areas of expertise isn’t doing much for the credibility of your story.

This quote from you was about me elaborating on the importance of networking and connection which has totally gone over your head based on your response to it. This shows you don't understand or severely underestimate the power of networking and knowing the right connections. It's probably why you say you are a nobody. The fact that my app has generated multi million dollars and was given such prominent attention is not credibility? Do you realize how hard it is to make an app successful in business? I think you'd benefit from reading up on that.

Exactly, and that makes it all the more puzzling why you would keep replying, adding to the details of your story as if to loan it more credibility. If it’s not important to you that anyone believes your story then I’d recommend just letting go. The joke’s on us if it’s all true.

You want to try and debate me, well you are not doing a good job, I'm giving more information which you can use to weigh but you merely dismiss which isn't an argument at all. Why have you talked past my apps prominent success on the Meta store? This is rarer than any concert pianist or house earning. You literally have talked past it completely because it's a pretty powerful bit of actual evidence. I wonder why you are purposefully doing that?

Yes I agree that it’s not impossible but extremely unlikely and the lack of supporting evidence just makes it unreasonable for any rational person to simply accept. If that’s fine with you then just let it go.

Like I said its not impossible its improbable, and you have no evidence to know its not true. I however have shown evidence of my achievements which are in line with rarity and scarcity, you don't seem to want to see that and that comes with extreme bias on your behalf. Do you just want to believe its all a lie? That's up to you of course! But it doesn't stand up to the evidence I have presented.

Who cares if a few plebs on the internet don’t believe you are who you say you are, right? But the more you reply, the more achievements you and to your resume, to more famous and influential connections you claim to have, the less believable the story becomes.

So then your previous comment about being interested was just hoping you could pick up on something easy to prove it's all a lie? Unfortunate for you you wont be able to do that because I'm speaking from an experience I have lived.

I’m just sharing my story. If you choose not to believe it, that’s your call. But often people who aren’t feeling successful themselves can struggle to accept when others achieve something uncommon,  especially if it challenges their view of what's possible. You described yourself as "a nobody" and said you'd be homeless without an inheritance, all your your words not mine so I get where the cynicism might come from. It’s not unusual to become wary of success stories in that headspace, but that doesn’t make them untrue.

You don’t have a prove anything, you don’t have to reveal your identity, and believe it or not, you don’t always have to get the last word in either - though history has shown this is somewhat of challenge for you 

I already revealed my identity, pianovision is my product ive developed with my business partner and we are a no 2 best seller on the Meta store. Is that not enough evidence for you? Gosh what you do you need lol. This represents the most powerful evidence of my achievements, it is the rarest and most difficult one that overshadows my concerting, home buying, etc etc. It's extremely rare to make an app successful if you knew anything about that. I don't always need the last word but ignorance requires my response to correct.

I would love for you to prove me wrong, I really would but given how much time you spend criticising and insulting people on this forum it’s understandable that you want to keep your anonymity. Yes you offer a lot of advice too but let’s not pretend you aren’t the controversial figure that everyone here knows you are.

I've insulted no one, if people want to insult me I can show them its not hard to work with that. Given I've engaged for 20 years on numerous topics I am passionate about it is only logical that I will be drawn into heated debates. I have provided 20 years of educational advice here on pianostreet which overshadows any debates I've had to deal with, just got ahead and look at all the threads Ive created in the Teaching section. People get angry with me in debates because maybe they don't want to be challenged to realize their ideas can be challenged. You might call it insults because you just read one sentence and don't see where the debate began and followed through.

What proof do you need, I've already shown you my pianovision work how have I kept anon? I am acutally talking in the previous video. Do you think Meta would do media on all their apps? They actually did a specific video on the product which I showed you. I can show you more videos, here is one which cost multiple millions to create and showcases pianovision, it also played during the superbowl, do you know how expensive that is to advertise there?

Its called THE INSTRUMENT and the entire story revolves around our product. For an app to be given such prominent attention is EXTREMELY RARE, its much rarer than being a successful concert pianist, its rarer than buying houses, its rarer than anything else you have doubted. You are however purposefully ignoring this bit of evidence to believe in your head your own story, thats on you.

Also, just to be absolutely clear, I’m not suggesting that your story is a complete fabrication. I am however skeptical that it hasn’t been stretched and massaged into something more extraordinary than it actually is. A little exaggeration here, a small omission there, can paint a very different picture.

You are smokes and mirror fence sitting with a passive aggressive tone, I am intelligent enough to know what you are doing.

[lostinidlewonder]

Terminate them with extreme prejudice?

Yeah that's what short sighted classical teachers do.

Musical illiteracy is not the way.

What is musical literacy though? That is a more complicated bit of musical pedagogy than what you understand I think. It is not just reading sheet music. I don't feel I need to go into that though, but there's plenty of famous jazz musicians who couldn't read a single note of music.
 

Not if one wishes to communicate in a concise manner with other musicians in a studio or on stage.

You don't need to be able to read sheets to do that. A band creating music doesn't sit down together and stare at sheet music, maybe you need more practical experience in jamming sessions.

Many guitarists manage by just earing their way through some trivial or even complicated bits of music.

But damn hell if one tries to talk shop with any of them or concisely write out a few bars of some vamp or tag ending in Eb or something. 

And why should they? They can communicate music in a more natural way without the constraints of reading. My father cant read a single note of music but can play by ear anything he hears for the first time in any style he chooses. He was trained by jazz musicians that worked in his fathers nightclubs.

Reading and understanding notation is indeed the bare minimum one needs to be a literate and compliant musician.

Classical musicians might applaud you but hey look at those jazz musicians are all laughing at you, and pointing.

Kids who don't "get it" should be killed to make way for more complete musicians.

And that is why I don't teach kids.  QED.[/font]

yyyyy....no

[perfect_pitch]

Maybe you didn't read everything that culminated to that point, but it was PP who brought up home ownership.

I merely did that because you brought into question how successful my career was as a teacher, and my university qualifications... and I clarified that despite the low level you seem to think I am as a teacher and the poor "WA University" that I went to... I still made a career good enough to pay for a house (in the WA Market, and anyone from WA will know what a sh*t show it is trying to get a property now), and have inspired people over the world with my arrangements.

They weren't questioning your ability to own a property... they were questioning your bragging about owning multiple properties without aid from the bank.

That raised a red flag with a few people...

[lostinidlewonder]

I merely did that because you brought into question how successful my career was as a teacher, and my university qualifications...

No i didn't question your success at all. You said I am always bragging that I studied with famous teachers, but you still haven't shown all those heaps of times that I have. So you wanted to bring things into a personal level so I then poked at you to realize that you're jealously about that might extend from the fact that WA universities are not known for top class educators in piano. It's just the truth. So its revealing why you might be the way you are.

and I clarified that despite the low level you seem to think I am as a teacher and the poor "WA University" that I went to... I still made a career good enough to pay for a house (in the WA Market, and anyone from WA will know what a sh*t show it is trying to get a property now), and have inspired people over the world with my arrangements.

You've just read wrong the entire discussion and forget your own actions that brought it all up to that point. You are not an innocent. I've never put down your career, I merely poke at you because you poke at me, you think I brag about famous teachers (which you still haven't shown that I have, and I certainly have not!), i poke at you and say, ive never said such things, maybe you're being upset because you went to a WA university without famous teachers.

They weren't questioning your ability to own a property... they were questioning your bragging about owning multiple properties without aid from the bank.

That raised a red flag with a few people...

Why should that, its not that ridiculously uncommon. I know FIFO workers who have done it in their 20s and better than me. Maybe my apps multi million dollar success with Meta should raise more red, flags, I've provided ample evidence of its success to which everyone has gone quiet on it lol. Funny that.

[j_tour]

I don't feel I need to go into that though, but there's plenty of famous jazz musicians who couldn't read a single note of music.

No kidding.  I didn't know that.

You don't need to be able to read sheets to do that. A band creating music doesn't sit down together and stare at sheet music, maybe you need more practical experience in jamming sessions.

Yeah, I should probably try playing more jazz music.  It might improve my outlook.

You have *any* idea what actual musicians do on the studio or on stage?  In real time? 

Time is money, and money is what makes the rhinoceros marching powder go into the appropriate blow holes.

It's about efficiency.  Not everybody is Ed Van Halen or has stupendous natural ears.

Try any session that matters without being able to read fly sheet off the page and see how far that goes.

Think Chuck Rainey couldn't or didn't read when he was playing on bass guitar?  Carol Kaye?

How about Peter Bernstein on guitar?

You're not wrong:  any good musician, even playing legit music, plays by ear as much as off the page, but you are wrong in suggesting that the pretty simple task of sight-reading at tempo is not very much required in professional situations.

Even Dr. Lonnie Smith could read off a lead sheet/chart.  And he was as much an ear player as anybody.  But he wasn't no dummy.

The map is not the territory, granted.  But anybody can (or should) play off a chart if they want to not be wasting everybody's time.

[lostinidlewonder]

No kidding.  I didn't know that.

I didn't know that either, I just made it up.

Yeah, I should probably try playing more jazz music.  It might improve my outlook.

What like the jazz groupies and things?

You have *any* idea what actual musicians do on the studio or on stage?  In real time? 

Yeah like they do this and that, move their body in ways to make stuff make sound. I think, but I could be lying about that perhaps, need evidence?

Time is money, and money is what makes the rhinoceros marching powder go into the appropriate blow holes.

If you want to waste your money, I'd prefer to let money make more money, then you can count numbers, don't spend it, counting is more fun.

It's about efficiency.  Not everybody is Ed Van Halen or has stupendous natural ears.

I'm Van Halen though, I can't prove it so believe me. I have a hat.

Try any session that matters without being able to read fly sheet off the page and see how far that goes.

Pretty far I reckon, I've seen it in person, without the fly.... stuff.

Think Chuck Rainey couldn't or didn't read when he was playing on bass guitar?  Carol Kaye?

How about Peter Bernstein on guitar?

They were blind and had their eyes burned out because they hated sheet music, you know those evil teachers burn them. Tragic story, true.

You're not wrong:  any good musician, even playing legit music, plays by ear as much as off the page, but you are wrong in suggesting that the pretty simple task of sight-reading at tempo is not very much required in professional situations.[/font]

Maybe for classical musicians, what about just tabs and knowing what key, chords and rhythms are happening. It's all winning, but I can't back that up with evidence, it's not possible, you'd lose your house if you did.

[j_tour]

It's all winning, but I can't back that up with evidence, it's not possible, you'd lose your house if you did.

No, I actually live under a freeway overpass in a tent.

It's pretty sweet.

Jazz:  know it, live it, believe in it! 

You're kind of a c-word, aren't you?

I'll allow it.

[lostinidlewonder]

No, I actually live under a freeway overpass in a tent.

Quit your lying you don't own a freeway. If you do you must have a lot of coins for toll right? Prove it and show me your coin purse.... wait...

You're kind of a c-word, aren't you?

I'll allow it.[/font]

A clever C?

[j_tour]

Quit your lying you don't own a freeway. If you do you must have a lot of coins for toll right? Prove it and show me your coin purse.... wait...

Well.....I own a few pool cues!

Or as we call them in the business, "sticks."

[lostinidlewonder]

Well.....I own a few pool cues!

Or as we call them in the business, "sticks."

What is this....

[j_tour]

What is this....

That's called keeping my pimp hand strong!

Yeah, I keep my bottom ho for myself but don't mean I don't turn her out so she making me my monies.

Ain't no fool!