What's on your mind now?

[j_menz]

Lets not be too harsh, this is not a fair game.

Neither is life.  If people want to play, and do not know that what they say may cause offence to others, they should accept the responses they get.

I have never claimed to be a nice person, and I do not intend to start pretending now.

[j_menz]

you actually believe a man in a red suit gives you presents every year?"

One does. Sadly, some of my relatives are a little sartorially eccentric.

[outin]

I have never claimed to be a nice person, and I do not intend to start pretending now.

I on the other hand have become a master in pretending...goes with the job. I am neither a lawyer or a professional pianists, so my income relies on that skill.

[j_menz]

rach_forever: AHA! you are a professional pianist.

Or ballerina, or pirate, or cat burglar.

Or something more prosaic.

[outin]

or cat burglar.

Should I move to US to be able to defend my cats against you with guns???

[ajspiano]

I'm usually pretty nice..   apparently though I become a bit of an ass when someone suggests that a political loss is going to send their country into the pits of hell...   

.

cats would not need to be defended by guns. They are crafty manipulative little beings, and likely superior to humans despite what the bible may say.

[outin]

cats would not need to be defended by guns.

True, not the cats, but my right to live with them...

[outin]

I'm usually pretty nice..   apparently though I become a bit of an ass when someone suggests that a political loss is going to send their country into the pits of hell...  

Then again...
Even though clavile might have chosen the wrong environment to express her views, she might actually be quite rational not to change them no matter what...If she did she might get bullied hard by her immediate peers, just like some of us are bullied on this forum for not wanting to play Bach  

[ajspiano]

Then again...
Even though clavile might have chosen the wrong environment to express her views, she might actually be quite rational not the change them no matter what...If she did she might get bullied hard by her immediate peers, just like some of us are bullied on this forum for not wanting to play Bach 

In that case I would consider rational to be changing ones views, and then not telling ones immediate peers...at least until such time as you can find new peers.

Granted for some people it is perhaps impossible to stand alone with a belief that is at odds with their immediate peers - especially young people. It's easier not to question certain things.. And infact, in clavilles case, a completely absurd suggestion perhaps?

Personally I think neither Obama or Romney are fit for office purely because they are both Christian..  Nothing against the chosen belief, just don't feel it's appropriate for someone who believes in a god to make judgements on behalf of an entire country... Can't see how that choice, that I find so irrational, bodes well for them making rational choices in other areas...  But then ofcourse if the population is Christian then a Christian would best understand what the majority desires.. So I will likely stand alone with that somewhat "wrong" opinion. Of course that is irrational on my part since a belief in god doesn't remove rationality from a person.. there are more than enough good examples to the contrary.


Needless to say I like that my country's leader is an atheist. However her recent vote of "no" on the gay marriage bill disturbs me just as much when considered as a representation of her fundamental values, so i guess you can't win.

[outin]

Needless to say I like that my country's leader is an atheist. However her recent vote of "no" on the gay marriage bill disturbs me just as much when considered as a representation of her fundamental values, so i guess you can't win.

No...but it's sometimes impossible to tell whether a politician's view is genuine or whether it is tailored to the demands of voters, sometimes more and sometimes less. It is obvious that no matter what Romney or Obama think in their own mind, it would be a political suicide in US to announce yourself as atheist.

It will be a long time (if the day ever comes) before the rights of non-religious people are guarded with such passion as the rights of religious people 

[chopin2015]

America was founded by slave owners who wanted to be free.   

haha I told my mom about the fact that people who are stuck working low wage jobs are slaves in a way but are necessary for other people's freedom.

[clavile]

This backs up everything I've said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

Feel free to argue with that.



--By the way.... I never did believe in Santa Claus...guess my parents never "lied" to me about him.

I'm not particularly worried about people bullying me, either. I've had it happen one or two times, and usually I just feel badly for the person who's doing it, and how small-minded they are to think it makes them bigger and better than me. So, I just treat them like they never said it, and move on with life.

I'm around all sorts of people that have many different views, and everybody accepts the people for who they are. Yes, we have *friendly* debates sometimes, but ultimately we enjoy people whether their views are different or not, and respect them just the same. Political views do not sway my opinions of anybody.

Unless I find a good reason to change my views, I stick to them. I'm not going to follow the herd and believe something just because "everybody says it". Give me a reasonable fact, and I'll give it good consideration.


As for Obama being a "Christian", that is absurd. What "Christian" goes and bashes the Bible, says how stupid and ridiculous it is, and then turns around and says he's "Christian"?


"Also, given that following the US, china has the 2nd largest economy in the world and is growing and fast catching up..  you're going to have to start questioning the idea that communism is bad for a country a a whole.. even if you personally choose not to live under that system of government."

Have you taken the time to  look at China, see how poor they are, and what a desperate situation they're in? China is getting ready to go under; they're like a wobbling top.

Already saw what happened to Russia and Cuba.

One more thing, and then I'm finished with this conversation.

If America is such a "typical" country, why do we have so many immigrants coming HERE for "a better life", and to start businesses and provide for their families?

---And yes I know quite a few immigrants.

[oxy60]

I wonder how much you actually know about the countries within EU? I live in one I don't see nothing much to worry, unless one is REALLY unhappy about anything to do with aiming for a bit more social equality.

Well, actually quite a bit. At this moment in Spain where I am living we have a 25% unemployment rate. Shop keepers are suffering. Businesses are closing.

Here like most of the EU the government is in way too many businesses. They are in partnership with the pharmacies as part of a national health care system. They haven't paid the pharmacies for months for the medicines they gave out as part of that plan. Now some pharmacies will close in protest, denying some areas service.

I am sure that from your point of view there doesn't seem to be much to worry about. But follow the money source that is used to provide a sort of utopian feeling.

[outin]

Well, actually quite a bit. At this moment in Spain where I am living we have a 25% unemployment rate. Shop keepers are suffering. Businesses are closing.

Here like most of the EU the government is in way too many businesses. They are in partnership with the pharmacies as part of a national health care system. They haven't paid the pharmacies for months for the medicines they gave out as part of that plan. Now some pharmacies will close in protest, denying some areas service.

I am sure that from your point of view there doesn't seem to be much to worry about. But follow the money source that is used to provide a sort of utopian feeling.

No utopian feeling here, just experience. Our country has been through many economic depressions and survived because mostly we know how to spend when we can and save when we have to. We have unemployment too in certain professions, but nothing like the early 90's. The system takes reasonably good care of those who don't have work. Our politicians like to scare us with the recession, that's a way to be able to make decisions that people might not otherwise accept. Things never turn out as bad as it is supposed to.

It is true that in some parts of EU the economy is a disaster and I never was much of a EU fan really. But we were here discussing how it is to live in the European countries, rather than the state of the union itself. The sorry state of the economy in certain EU countries is their own doing and they never actually followed the rules of the EU and no doubt there's corruption too. We are helping them because our politicians believe EU is worth saving and we can still afford it. Don't know how long it's worth it though.

[outin]

If America is such a "typical" country, why do we have so many immigrants coming HERE for "a better life", and to start businesses and provide for their families?

Because where they come from it's much worse...due to the fact that for the past few hundred years the global economy has been based on certain areas getting rich at the expence of other areas.

There's a lot of immigration pressure to the more well off European countries as well, so it is in no way unique to USA or Canada. You just have a long tradition to accept large amount of immigrants, while here the immigration is often seen as less desirable and made more difficult.

EDIT
I hope you don't think that I'm saying USA is a horrible place to live. Of course not, not for many of you and there are many things that make it a very interesting place. And it's not a typical democratic country at all, there are not many with the death penalty for example.

Some people are happy to live in a European country while others can't wait to get out. It's about different values and different needs. I think what is difficult to understand is that someone cannot see the negative sides of their system at all and think that any change can only be for worse...

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Must...

Get...

Halo 4!

[j_menz]

This backs up everything I've said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

Feel free to argue with that.

Wikipedia? 

But what in it backs up what you have said, our runs counter to anything I have said? You need to be more specific. Argue your case from it, not just point me at it and say "there". I don't see anything at all in that article which refutes anything I have said - point me to it and explain why.

As for Obama being a "Christian", that is absurd. What "Christian" goes and bashes the Bible, says how stupid and ridiculous it is, and then turns around and says he's "Christian"?

When did Obama "bash the bible and say how stupid and ridiculous it is"? Reference, please.

If America is such a "typical" country, why do we have so many immigrants coming HERE for "a better life", and to start businesses and provide for their families?

---And yes I know quite a few immigrants.

There are quite a few countries that have many immigrants seeking a better life. How is the US different to them?

[j_menz]

Must...

Get...

Halo 4!

Must..



Not!

[clavile]

Wikipedia? 

But what in it backs up what you have said, our runs counter to anything I have said? You need to be more specific. Argue your case from it, not just point me at it and say "there". I don't see anything at all in that article which refutes anything I have said - point me to it and explain why.


When did Obama "bash the bible and say how stupid and ridiculous it is"? Reference, please.

There are quite a few countries that have many immigrants seeking a better life. How is the US different to them?

You . haven't . heard . of . Wikipedia? ....or was that disapproving...


The whole thing backs up what I've said, and runs counter to what you said.

Your proof:

America is called "The Land Of Opportunity"  for everybody in it, and all immigrants.

Let me come from a different approach --- America is different from other countries.

Oh-- here is this to back this up. That says plenty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

I suggest reading the whole thing. It's not complicated to read, and most of it is what I was trying to say earlier.

[chopin2015]

I had a dream about my english teacher...(he is really good looking). I had a dream the whole class was in a different country and we walked off together and I fell(or laid) down on the ground and he kissed me(once). Class was not as good today though, I am afraid my dream was completely pointless. Oh well.

[ajspiano]

You . haven't . heard . of . Wikipedia? ....or was that disapproving...


The whole thing backs up what I've said, and runs counter to what you said.

Your proof:

America is called "The Land Of Opportunity"  for everybody in it, and all immigrants.

Let me come from a different approach --- America is different from other countries.

Oh-- here is this to back this up. That says plenty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Dream

I suggest reading the whole thing. It's not complicated to read, and most of it is what I was trying to say earlier.

In australia we call it "the great australian dream" - and its the same thing, exactly..  This has nothing to do with america being a bad place..  its just not better than anywhere else, or at least not better than many other places at present.. you've been fed a mountain of patriotic misinformation.

We call our place the "land of opportunity" too.. and immigrants poor in here just like in the US.

I read that entire wiki article before commenting about your bill of rights, and yes Wikipedia is a bad reference.

here's why..
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gQ-s9Yj3P0w/TPCmIVlDNBI/AAAAAAAAAgk/BD7RN_Ujj9c/s1600/ringo.jpg


The information is just not reputable, so even if that article is right about US history and the bill of rights, no one in there right mind would assume it to be so without checking other references...  and that of course is irrelevant, because as far as we can see there is nothing in the article that sets you aside as being different. If you're not willing to point out a specific thing and talk about it then you should discontinue.

........................

Try this, - as a framework

I believe america is better for this specific reason "we have the freedom to ______ "
see this reference - link -
quote from reference "bla bla etc. etc."

I believe your country is not like that, you do not have that freedom..
see this reference - link -
quote from reference "bla bla etc. etc."

..........

if you can do that you might convince us, of course you'll still be subject to counter argument and scrutiny.

...if you can not do that, your argument is invalid and you shouldn't have begun such a thing, because you don't personally know what you're talking about.. you only think you do because some other person told you that's how it is..  in fact I suspect many people told you that is how it is, ..church school friends parents?? all of them were not giving you the full story and they will have told you its that way because their parents did, and their parents before them did..


America breeds patriots with this attitude like mad because you guys get about actively telling your kids that america is the best place in the world from the day they are born. Its indoctrinated into you, and its not true.

in·doc·tri·nate
Verb:   
Teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

.......................

Obama's speech is not mocking Christianity, it is pointing out that religion can not define public policy - and that has been a part of your country's ideals for a long time.

The bill of rights, 1789.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

What is your interpretation of this? How does that not mean its ok for your citizens to have a different religion, or no religion.. and that they have the right to operate under their beliefs and morals, which may conflict with your own or that of those in power... and that public policy must therefore respect the choices of other belief systems meaning that human law must conflict with scripture in order to service the nation as a whole. Not doing so would mean severe discrimination on the basis of religion and violate the bill of rights.

There is little wonder why obama was voted in..  the attitude he puts across is one of acceptance and a government for the greater good of the majority of your country, not his own personal convictions.

[clavile]

In australia we call it "the great australian dream" - and its the same thing, exactly..  This has nothing to do with america being a bad place..  its just not better than anywhere else, or at least not better than many other places at present.. you've been fed a mountain of patriotic misinformation.

We call our place the "land of opportunity" too.. and immigrants poor in here just like in the US.

I read that entire wiki article before commenting about your bill of rights, and yes Wikipedia is a bad reference.

here's why..
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gQ-s9Yj3P0w/TPCmIVlDNBI/AAAAAAAAAgk/BD7RN_Ujj9c/s1600/ringo.jpg


The information is just not reputable, so even if that article is right about US history and the bill of rights, no one in there right mind would assume it to be so without checking other references...  and that of course is irrelevant, because as far as we can see there is nothing in the article that sets you aside as being different. If you're not willing to point out a specific thing and talk about it then you should discontinue.

........................

Try this, - as a framework

I believe america is better for this specific reason "we have the freedom to ______ "
see this reference - link -
quote from reference "bla bla etc. etc."

I believe your country is not like that, you do not have that freedom..
see this reference - link -
quote from reference "bla bla etc. etc."

..........

if you can do that you might convince us, of course you'll still be subject to counter argument and scrutiny.

...if you can not do that, your argument is invalid and you shouldn't have begun such a thing, because you don't personally know what you're talking about.. you only think you do because some other person told you that's how it is..  in fact I suspect many people told you that is how it is, ..church school friends parents?? all of them were not giving you the full story and they will have told you its that way because their parents did, and their parents before them did..


America breeds patriots with this attitude like mad because you guys get about actively telling your kids that america is the best place in the world from the day they are born. Its indoctrinated into you, and its not true.

in·doc·tri·nate
Verb:   
Teach (a person or group) to accept a set of beliefs uncritically.

.......................

Obama's speech is not mocking Christianity, it is pointing out that religion can not define public policy - and that has been a part of your country's ideals for a long time.

The bill of rights, 1789.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances"

What is your interpretation of this? How does that not mean its ok for your citizens to have a different religion, or no religion.. and that they have the right to operate under their beliefs and morals, which may conflict with your own or that of those in power... and that public policy must therefore respect the choices of other belief systems meaning that human law must conflict with scripture in order to service the nation as a whole. Not doing so would mean severe discrimination on the basis of religion and violate the bill of rights.

There is little wonder why obama was voted in..  the attitude he puts across is one of acceptance and a government for the greater good of the majority of your country, not his own personal convictions.

Wikipedia is a world-wide source. They are rather careful about their articles. If there is any dispute over on-site information, you are warned before reading it.

Yes, they admit that their articles can be wrong, but how can you REALLY trust any source of information? You have to start believing somewhere, and from what I've seen, the Wiki sources I found are in agreement with many other articles on the web.

Obviously you're not willing to believe much of anything I say, even when the information comes from a pretty reliable source, and I have checked carefully. It's obvious that nothing in this conversation will change, even if we carried it on for a year.

Thanks for the conversation, though! It gave me something to chew on during the day.

[outin]

This morning when I woke up I was playing one of my pieces in my head. Really playing as in seeing the notes and thinking about what my hands were doing. That hasn't happened in a long time. So I think it's a good sign, maybe I will be able to concentrate more on the piano again. Lately I have been mostly solving work related problems during my sleep.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I had a dream about my english teacher...(he is really good looking). I had a dream the whole class was in a different country and we walked off together and I fell(or laid) down on the ground and he kissed me(once). Class was not as good today though, I am afraid my dream was completely pointless. Oh well.

...
...
...

BWAHAHAHAAHAHAHAAAAAHAAHAHAHHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

Must..



Not!

Do you even...

Do you even know what halo 4 is?!

It's the freaking pinnacle of human achievement!  I MUST get that game!!!

[rachmaninoff_forever]

rach_forever: AHA! you are a professional pianist.

Beat me to it!   

[oxy60]

No utopian feeling here, just experience. Our country has been through many economic depressions and survived because mostly we know how to spend when we can and save when we have to. We have unemployment too in certain professions, but nothing like the early 90's. The system takes reasonably good care of those who don't have work. Our politicians like to scare us with the recession, that's a way to be able to make decisions that people might not otherwise accept. Things never turn out as bad as it is supposed to.

It is true that in some parts of EU the economy is a disaster and I never was much of a EU fan really. But we were here discussing how it is to live in the European countries, rather than the state of the union itself. The sorry state of the economy in certain EU countries is their own doing and they never actually followed the rules of the EU and no doubt there's corruption too. We are helping them because our politicians believe EU is worth saving and we can still afford it. Don't know how long it's worth it though.

I remember when the treaty was signed and was watching live TV as the various banks converted currencies. We were sold starting packets so on New Years Day we went to lunch with two currencies. The restaurant still wanted to be paid in the old money. Today people in Spain still quote house prices in Pesetas. And some French people still speak in old francs. The problem in the EU is that smaller countries abused the "reputation" of the Euro when looking for loans. The lenders thought that Euro Bonds where good as gold. Nobody assessed the individual risk of each country. For some it was money from heaven. Government jobs/agencies/infrastructures were created. Sadly the engines of the economy were ignored/regulated/taxed to death. And now with government cutting expenses people are on the street.

I want to caution any discussion about the USA. Those documents quoted in previous posts are living documents subject to local administration and the rule of the courts. Nothing is written in stone. For example, gun ownership and use can change from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

In California district attorneys are more prone to question "use of excessive force."  The costs of defending that charge in fact limits your right to reasonable self defense.

[j_menz]

Do you even...

Do you even know what halo 4 is?!

It's the freaking pinnacle of human achievement!  I MUST get that game!!!

I even own an X Box thingie on which to play it. Very decorative it is too. 

Pinnacle of human achievement? Hmmmm. No.

[j_menz]

America is called "The Land Of Opportunity"  for everybody in it, and all immigrants.

Are you aware that it has a social mobility than a number of other countries? Social mobility is the measure of how much opportunity there is for people not born into privelege.

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I even own an X Box

Dude what's your gamer tag?!

I stopped playing games until Halo 4 came out.  Just got it today!!!!

 

[j_menz]

Dude what's your gamer tag?!

I probably should know what that is, shouldn't I.

I've never bothered to network it.

[zezhyrule]

Halo 4 is another tired-out FPS. If we're talking about pinnacles of human achievement here, Dark Souls is the only thing that should be mentioned. Game is sex.

[unholeee]

i've been subpoenaed to give evidence at a trial. the case makes me sick : [ i expect it to be very emotional if the family is there. i don't want to go, but it's unreasonable, never mind being unlawful not to.

another tired-out FPS

seems to be the trend these days.

[oxy60]

i've been subpoenaed to give evidence at a trial. the case makes me sick : [ i expect it to be very emotional if the family is there. i don't want to go, but it's unreasonable, never mind being unlawful not to.

Is that a US court?

[49410enrique]

Halo 4 is another tired-out FPS. If we're talking about pinnacles of human achievement here, Dark Souls is the only thing that should be mentioned. Game is sex.

as is this. the relaunch i believe has succeeded in fixing a very broken game. great in concept but utter failure in the first launch, they kept at it, listened to gamer feedback and improved upon what was already good.

this is what it should have been. i'm so glad it has landed. talk about a great set up to what promises to be a pretty incredible story (though i'm not too happy it's mmo but i am really wanting to start this sometime next year).

epic (relaunch was/is this month)

[Bob]

I've never heard the wild things refered to as bastards before.  

[zezhyrule]

as is this. the relaunch i believe has succeeded in fixing a very broken game. great in concept but utter failure in the first launch, they kept at it, listened to gamer feedback and improved upon what was already good.

this is what it should have been. i'm so glad it has landed. talk about a great set up to what promises to be a pretty incredible story (though i'm not too happy it's mmo but i am really wanting to start this sometime next year).

epic (relaunch was/is this month)

I actually plan on getting that once the PS3 version releases, and I don't even play MMOs. It just looks so great and... Final Fantasy <3

[Bob]

What situation makes up an emergency in this case? 

[Bob]

Don't yawn.



 

[m1469]

Don't yawn.



 

HA!  mean ...

[Bob]

It'll get back to me eventually.  Someday I'll run across that post and it will get me.


Yawning is supposed to be a sign of empathy potential.

[49410enrique]

What situation makes up an emergency in this case? 

[m1469]

It'll get back to me eventually.  Someday I'll run across that post and it will get me.


Yawning is supposed to be a sign of empathy potential.

I might steal it and put it as my FB status :- (I did for a moment and then erased it because it doesn't communicate the same ... hmmm)

*badly wants to yawn*

[Bob]

You'll probably take it the wrong way but...

It's supposed to work with dogs too.  You can make dogs yawn by yawning in front of them.  Dogs can feel empathy for humans, so they yawn too. Something along those lines.

Of course it could also mean you and the dog are both bored too I suppose.

[j_menz]

You'll probably take it the wrong way but...

It's supposed to work with dogs too.  You can make dogs yawn by yawning in front of them.  Dogs can feel empathy for humans, so they yawn too. Something along those lines.

Of course it could also mean you and the dog are both bored too I suppose.

But dogs chiefly yawn when they are embarrassed/confused (eg, when you tell them to do something and they don't understand what you mean). Maybe they just thibnk your yawn is supposed to be telling them to do something?

[49410enrique]

[Bob]

This must be an incredibly awesome light.  It IS deluxe.

https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Bright-Telescoping-Triple-Deluxe/dp/1891747851/ref=sr_1_18?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1354041365&sr=1-18



Over $45,000.  Used. 

[j_menz]

This must be an incredibly awesome light.  It IS deluxe.

https://www.amazon.com/Mighty-Bright-Telescoping-Triple-Deluxe/dp/1891747851/ref=sr_1_18?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1354041365&sr=1-18



Over $45,000.  Used. 

Clearly someone believes there is one born everty minute - and good luck to them

Personally, I'd go for the apparently identical new one for $15.95

https://www.amazon.com/Triple-Telescoping-Book-Light-Silver/dp/B0009UD5L2/ref=pd_cp_hi_0

[rachmaninoff_forever]

I'm trying to submit my prescreening materials but I keep getting this stupid god damn error!!!

[j_menz]

I'm trying to submit my prescreening materials but I keep getting this stupid god damn error!!!

Maybe they also screen for technological competence.